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1. 1Call to Order - Roll Call▶ 0:00
2. 2.a

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   Discussion on Collection of Payments Related to the Solid Waste Program

   discussed

   Staff presented a proposal to consolidate solid waste billing onto the monthly water utility bill, requiring water ordinance changes including making property owners (not tenants) the account holders, establishing a payment sequence (water, sewer, trash), and allowing year-end liens for unpaid amounts. Council discussed details including dual notification to owners and tenants, the suspension/opt-out policy for snowbirds, delinquency timelines, and appeals. Council gave general direction to proceed with drafting ordinance changes and to revisit the solid waste suspension policy to be more flexible.

   • direction:Council gave staff direction to proceed with drafting changes to the water ordinance to consolidate solid waste billing onto the monthly utility bill, with property owners as account holders and a dual notification system. (none)
   • direction:Council directed staff to revisit and propose a more flexible solid waste service suspension/opt-out policy, particularly for snowbirds and multi-property owners. (none)

   🏢Gray Robinson🏢InvoiceCloud👤Chopper👤Chris👤Crystal👤Frank Miller👤Nikki Day👤Pete👤Robert#Comparison matrix: New Port Richey, Hallandale Beach, Tarpon Springs, Dade City#Payment sequence policy (water, sewer, trash)#Solid Waste Program billing consolidation#Solid waste service suspension policy#Water ordinance amendment#Year-end lien process for unpaid utility amounts

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   [00:00:10] The purpose of the discussion this evening is to determine whether or not it would be appropriate to establish the solid waste collection fees as part of our monthly utility bill. [00:00:36] To proceed with changes to the water ordinance if you determine that it is appropriate. [00:00:43] And then to ask you whether or not you'd like us to proceed with a dual notification system related to utility bills and potentially trash solid waste bills so that we can notify homeowners and property owners of the amounts owed and the amounts paid. [00:01:10] The reason that we bring this matter to your attention is because we're currently billing independently for solid waste services. [00:01:20] We do currently bill monthly for water bills and water and sewer bills. [00:01:30] And the current practice in the water utility, at least in accordance with the ordinance, is that we can lien. [00:01:43] I'm sorry, that's not right. [00:01:48] So let me go back a little bit. [00:01:50] So the direction that we'd like to proceed is to put the solid waste collection fees as part of the monthly water utility. [00:02:00] We think that there'd be some efficiency in that in Crystal's department. [00:02:08] And if you determine that it's appropriate, then there's a couple of items that we'd like to discuss with you related to the ordinance so that we can gain some input from you. [00:02:23] One related to the suspension of solid waste services, the temporary suspension, that is, a payment sequence application, and then a process for effectuating a lien for unpaid totals at year end. [00:02:43] And we're interested in your thoughts about that. [00:02:50] What we've done is, in your packet, we provided some background information. [00:02:58] We've also provided a copy of a little chart that was put together by Robert's department, which compares the practices of New Port Richey, Hollandale Beach, Tarpon Springs, and Dade City as it relates to the collection of solid waste. [00:03:22] One of the primary items of note is that the account owners are always in the name of the property owner. [00:03:34] The account holder cannot be a tenant of property, and that would mean a change in our water utility ordinance, because we currently do allow tenants to have water accounts. [00:03:52] The reason that we think that it is good is because we need to hold somebody accountable for these bills, and the likelihood of collection is much higher when we assign the responsibility to the property owner. [00:04:17] And we do have the benefit of a dual notification system through our software. [00:04:24] Mr. Crystal has looked into that for us and found out that we can send notices to both the property owner and the occupant of the property each month, indicating what the usage was and the amount that may have been paid on the bill during the prior year and any delinquency that should exist. [00:04:50] That should mitigate some of the concerns on the part of what I perceive will be some opposition from owners of property that don't want the responsibility of the water bill for their tenant. [00:05:02] They would be able to maintain controls. We would also be able to turn water off at a rental property if we needed to for non-payment, and our policy right now is 20 days beyond due date. [00:05:24] And we can't currently do that in all cases, so this would give us a little bit more authority and help us with some of our delinquent accounts. [00:05:35] The other items that were identified in the matrix that was prepared for you shows us to be pretty consistent with the other communities in the base fee, the due date, late fee, delinquency notice, and the other variables. [00:06:06] The one that I wanted to talk about specifically with you, though, was the suspension of solid waste service, because that's a subject that's come up many times during the course of our discussions on this subject. [00:06:24] And what we learned was that our policy, which is you must have your water turned off if you're going to suspend your solid waste. It must be for a period for, is it no more than three months? No, it's at least three months. [00:06:42] At least three months, and there's a disconnect and a reconnect fee associated with that service. Hollandale Beach does not allow at all any suspension of solid waste services. [00:06:59] Tarpon Springs is similar to our program, and Dade City has a policy where vacant properties are exempt from monthly solid waste collection if they're vacant for more than 30 days, and water and sewer are prorated by a daily basis, the way I understand it. [00:07:29] In addition to the account holder, the suspension of solid waste, we need to talk about the payment of the sequence application, which from our perspective, the staffs, we think the best way to regulate the sequence is to have people pay their water bill first, their sewer bill second, [00:07:59] and their solid waste bill third. If they're only making a partial payment, the credit would go to the water bill first, and Crystal, please correct me if I misspeak, and our software allows us to reflect that in that order. [00:08:18] And the last part of the program, if you agree to place the bills, or at least in theory, place the bills on our utility bill, would be at the end of the year, we would lien properties for unpaid amounts that are due. [00:08:42] And those things would all entail changes to our water ordinance. We've started to talk to Frank Miller and Olive about doing work on our water ordinance. [00:08:57] Oh, I'm sorry, Gray Robinson now. Nikki Day from Gray Robinson. Thank you for that correction. And we're prepared to go forward with some direction or some inclination from you of what your thoughts are. [00:09:14] One question. If they remain separate, would the trash bill still be quarterly? [00:09:21] It would be anything you direct of us. [00:09:24] Right now it's quarterly. [00:09:25] Right now it is quarterly. [00:09:26] Pete, this has been your gig. Let's hear you first. [00:09:30] Well, I appreciate that, Chopper, and I wholeheartedly support it. And I think from the beginning when I was, like, off topic talking about water and sewer, the really reason was our business as a city is water and sewer. [00:09:45] Our business as garbage is collecting and paying over what we collect. So knowing how much we've lost in terms of our inability to lien renters, I'll just speak to what is going to be the issue, which is when the landlords and the multiple property owners come in and say they don't like it. [00:10:05] And the nice thing to address on that, I think, just to get it out, is to say that if I'm a property owner and as a city we want to say we would like you to have reliable renters and to, as much as the property owner wants to manage their renters, problems we've had, and Chris will correct me if I'm wrong, if they're not still happening over time, has been so many out of state, which was a lot of money. [00:10:35] A lot of the liens that we had, out of state landlords that aren't watching their properties regularly or aren't putting into the program that says who do I contact locally if something's going on, too many of these other sort of landlord situations, whether they're individuals that have inherited their parents' homes or somebody that's really into that business, too many of them don't even realize when the renter moves out. [00:11:02] If they're getting a water bill every month and we do shift, and I believe we are going to shift into that look-in where you can actually look in and see or set something on your phone to give you an alarm if water is leaking. [00:11:16] So if we're going to try to start helping our residents understand water leaks and I'm an owner and my renter has, and I have a trigger that says tell me if there's no water used for a week or two, then I'm going to have a clue that that renter has picked up and left me holding the bag and not paying the rent. [00:11:37] So I think if the idea is we want to manage our utility system better and that can somehow convey to the landlords that this will help them to manage, by having the water bill on there, this will help them to manage their rentals better. [00:11:53] Because there are people that call into cities, in Dade City they call in and say turn off the water. It's like under the law you can't turn off the water to a renter. [00:12:03] But under the law, under our laws, if you don't pay the water, we'll shut your water off. So it's up to the owner is going to find out that there's a problem with the renter not paying his water bill. [00:12:19] And then the importance is back to the collection division itself to manage, and it's not easy, but to manage that system properly. So you have a proper amount of a deposit, which you can have one, back to garbage, have a garbage deposit on there. [00:12:37] Have a process that's kind of good, month to month. Have enough to cover two, three months worth of garbage. If they haven't, if they've moved out, and there's nobody there, and their water gets shut off, and their garbage gets shut off as well, then the garbage company's not collecting it, and the renter, the landlord, is going to find that they're going to be having to pay the bill. [00:13:07] But if we have a proper deposit system in place, then the landlord's not going to find himself in trouble. And if the landlord has the water bill, and there's a leak because someone left the water on before they left, which happens, you see those big water bills sometimes that come through for various reasons. [00:13:26] But the leak detection that Crystal's department can do becomes empowered to the property owner once we get that system in place, if it is in place. But even if it isn't, they get the bill, they see what's going on. So we're really asking the landlords to manage your renters, and everything will be fine. [00:13:48] Our goal would have to be to say, we have a good deposit system, and we're going to manage it, so we're not going to let, we're going to try to protect you as the owner, so you know. [00:14:00] You're saying put them together, separate, what are you saying? [00:14:03] I'm saying put it on the same bill, but have the two bills, so the owner is obligated, but in your case, the owner is paying it, right? [00:14:13] Paying what? [00:14:14] He's paying the garbage. [00:14:15] Okay. [00:14:16] If he's not paying the water? [00:14:17] No. [00:14:19] So now he will be, and he'll come to you and say, what are you doing? And the answer is, I pay my water bill, I'm going to get a bill, I'll still keep paying it. Because you'll pay the water, and he can decide how he puts his rent, how his lease together, who he wants to pay it. [00:14:34] Right, we got your idea. [00:14:39] Did you have more? [00:14:40] No, I'm good. I think I'm for it, so I appreciate it. I think it's very practical, and it protects the city on our own business as well. [00:14:51] Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Yeah, a few things. The disconnection, that is the, [00:15:00] That is the, when the bill is disconnected, that's the water being disconnected, not the [00:15:09] trash service. [00:15:10] That's right. [00:15:11] So, like, if they don't, you know, they pay the full water bill, they pay the full sewer, [00:15:16] they don't throw the 20 bucks or whatever the case may be into trash, it's still only [00:15:20] the water bill getting, or the water getting disconnected, the trash would continue to [00:15:24] get picked up. [00:15:25] Correct. [00:15:26] Okay. [00:15:28] Three months, under our current. [00:15:32] The trash continues to get picked up. [00:15:33] I don't think there's a time limit. [00:15:34] The trash will be picked up. [00:15:35] If it's delinquent, how long does it go before it doesn't get picked up? [00:15:40] Does not. [00:15:41] It continues. [00:15:42] It doesn't stop. [00:15:43] It gets charged to the landlord. [00:15:44] It does. [00:15:45] Okay. [00:15:46] That's a lien. [00:15:47] That's a lien. [00:15:48] Right? [00:15:49] If he doesn't pay the bill, yeah. [00:15:50] If he doesn't pay. [00:15:51] The 20-day, the disconnection timeline, it says 20 days after billing, five-day notice. [00:15:59] What is the 15 days referring to? [00:16:01] It just says, is that another note? [00:16:03] Is it 15-day notice, five-day notice? [00:16:05] Or it just says 15 days? [00:16:08] It's just 15 days, and then there's five days of notice that you're delinquent, and it received [00:16:17] a red door tag, and then we shut off. [00:16:20] So 20 days after billing, what's happening there? [00:16:23] It becomes late. [00:16:24] It's due within 20 days. [00:16:25] And is there a notification, or is there an email? [00:16:27] How are residents notified that it's late? [00:16:30] That they're late? [00:16:31] They're... [00:16:32] With the door tag. [00:16:33] With the door tag. [00:16:34] 20 days after billing? [00:16:35] Mm-hmm. [00:16:36] And then... [00:16:37] 15. [00:16:38] So the 20 days after billing is breaking up the 15 and five? [00:16:42] I need to clarify that. [00:16:43] No, it's... [00:16:44] It's 15, and then after five, it shuts off. [00:16:45] It's 15, and then at five, you get the red tag. [00:16:49] What I'm reading is they could be... [00:16:51] We could have the situation we had before with the delinquencies, where five days before [00:16:57] the bill's due, you're getting a red tag saying, hey... [00:17:00] When are they getting notice? [00:17:01] Because I just see arrows here. [00:17:02] I'm not understanding what these arrows mean. [00:17:04] It's after the due date. [00:17:06] Right. [00:17:07] Yeah. [00:17:08] So it's due on the first, let's just say. [00:17:09] Late penalty. [00:17:10] 20 days after the first, what happens? [00:17:11] Late penalty fee. [00:17:12] The late penalty fee applies. [00:17:13] And then 15 days after the penalty fee, what happens? [00:17:16] Officially late. [00:17:17] Okay. [00:17:19] They get the notice, and then they're shut off for nonpayment. [00:17:22] Early 35 days. [00:17:23] But when you say a penalty fee, is that, like, are they notified of that, or do they need [00:17:28] to log in to see the penalty fee? [00:17:29] It's on the bill. [00:17:30] It'll be on their future bill. [00:17:31] It'll be on, like, a letter in the mail, or whatever. [00:17:33] Well, it's on their bill. [00:17:34] Okay. [00:17:35] The bill states if it's not paid by the state, a penalty of X amount will apply. [00:17:38] And you're saying the, when they receive their bill and they go to pay it online, they're [00:17:49] just paying. [00:17:50] There's no, they have to select trash, they don't have to select water. [00:17:53] It's the sequence is water, sewer, trash. [00:17:56] Whatever they put in. [00:17:57] Currently, they log in and pay their utility bill, and they log in and pay their solid [00:18:04] waste bill separately, because they're invoiced separately. [00:18:07] The, going forward, if we were to move forward with one bill, they would just pay the one [00:18:13] bill. [00:18:14] If they only pay a partial payment, it's applied in the system to, it would, we could apply [00:18:18] it to water, sewer, trash, then penalties. [00:18:22] Now, if they pay another partial payment, that partial payment's going to go to a previous [00:18:28] bill until that bill's satisfied, before it moves forward to the current bill. [00:18:32] My question is, if, thank you for that, that's clear. [00:18:36] My question is, you know, let's say there is a leak on their water, they have a $300 [00:18:41] water bill, and their next trash, water, sewer bill comes in, everything they're paying is [00:18:47] just going towards that $300? [00:18:49] It would be, if they've, I mean, there's different cases, I mean, we tend to work with quite [00:18:54] a few customers, if there is a leak on the property, and they have repaired the leak, [00:18:59] it's not ongoing. [00:19:01] But yes, so the payments would be applied to previous bills until it's paid. [00:19:05] In that case, you know, obviously those would be case-by-case basis, but is there a way [00:19:09] within the software where that $300 overage could be isolated and be something they pay [00:19:14] separately so they're not, you know, accumulating a $20 trash bill that's never getting paid [00:19:20] because they're trying to catch up on water? [00:19:22] Well, at that point, their water would be shut off for non-payment, if they're that [00:19:27] far behind on their utility bill. [00:19:29] You could have a contract, right? [00:19:30] You'll do a contract with somebody to make payments? [00:19:32] I know the system will allow it. [00:19:33] We've done payment plans, yes. [00:19:34] So, to your point, if they get way behind, you could say, well, pay $30 a month, they'll [00:19:39] get caught up with that, and the rest of the bill still looks current. [00:19:42] $30 plus the current bill. [00:19:44] Or however, whatever. [00:19:45] Plus the current bill, yeah. [00:19:46] Whatever their arrangement is that's made. [00:19:47] No, the current bill would be lumped into that payment plan, or you... [00:19:51] Well, they would have to stay current with their current bill. [00:19:53] Basically, if we work with someone on their past due, or a leak, or a pool fill, or whatever [00:20:00] the case was, we require them to stay current on their new current bill, as long as they, [00:20:06] you know, adjusted or made proper repairs to the previous leak. [00:20:10] And any additional payments are applied to the old bill. [00:20:15] And we keep them off the shut-off list, is basically what occurs. [00:20:18] And what I'm hearing is, it's one log-in now. [00:20:21] Not two invoices separately. [00:20:22] Oh, if we agree to that direction, it's one... [00:20:25] They log-in, and they'd have all their stuff shown. [00:20:27] Because currently, they log-in to InvoiceCloud, and they can make their payment on InvoiceCloud. [00:20:32] If we're billing on one invoice, they're just paying on that one invoice. [00:20:35] Currently, it's two invoices, so they'd have to make two payments. [00:20:38] And can you speak to the... [00:20:41] There's a policy listed here, the appeals process. [00:20:44] Can you speak to that, and describe what's going on there? [00:20:48] Yeah. [00:20:50] Any disputes related to... [00:20:54] And this is related to our current water ordinance. [00:21:00] Appeals to the City Council on any disputes that we are not able to work out with the [00:21:06] property owner. [00:21:07] They have an opportunity to appeal to the City Council. [00:21:11] Well, how do they... [00:21:12] How do residents know of that opportunity, other than, you know, crack an open the law [00:21:17] book, or the code of ordinances? [00:21:18] It's on the back of their bill. [00:21:19] It's on the back of their bill? [00:21:20] Mm-hmm. [00:21:21] Okay. [00:21:22] And that would apply, then, to trash, consequently, with whatever... [00:21:25] Well, usually, a dispute relates to the charges of their utility usage. [00:21:30] Right. [00:21:31] Utility usage. [00:21:32] Right. [00:21:33] I mean... [00:21:34] Okay. [00:21:35] Trash is a good example. [00:21:36] Solid waste is consistent. [00:21:37] I see a fixed number in here. [00:21:38] Mm-hmm. [00:21:39] Okay. [00:21:40] The last one is on... [00:21:41] Thank you for your... [00:21:42] Trash never stops. [00:21:43] Thank you for your patience there. [00:21:44] For a period of no C, then, consecutive... [00:21:45] Less than. [00:21:46] No less than three consecutive months, water must be in the owner account name, water... [00:21:57] So, that's how it's currently set up. [00:22:04] Correct. [00:22:05] However, through discussion here, since we're already cracking open the law book ordinance, [00:22:13] that was a part of your... [00:22:14] Yes. [00:22:15] In my mind, I don't know the... [00:22:18] And maybe Pete can speak to it, or someone here can chime in with their opinion. [00:22:22] I'll just remind us of the conversations that were had the other night. [00:22:28] And one, to just start by saying, you know, look at the trust the community puts in us. [00:22:32] They come out, they yell at us over the trash service, and then, now, they're trusting us again to, you know, solve the problem. [00:22:41] They're not here yelling. [00:22:42] They're trusting us. [00:22:43] Not even here. [00:22:44] Well, that's the point. [00:22:45] That's democracy at work, baby. [00:22:46] They came out mad about this, and now, they're like, all right, everybody said no, [00:22:49] so it looks like they're going to actually do what we asked them to do. [00:22:51] Well, one of the things they asked was, the words they used, they don't use suspension, [00:22:56] but they used the word that was used a lot that night, other than the conversation about putting it on the water bill. [00:23:05] The other part of the conversation was a more flexible opt-out for owners that have several properties for snowbirds [00:23:15] who may not be here for more than three months or would have some sort of water that they want to keep on. [00:23:23] I think if there's going to be a time to do it and listen to the residents that spoke [00:23:27] and whatever residents are hearing in the community that might not be as vocal tonight or that night is, you know, [00:23:34] do we want to rework the suspension of solid waste services, what that looks like. [00:23:39] I'm open to it. [00:23:40] I want to do it, and so I don't know if anyone wants to chime in with their, whether they want to have, [00:23:45] I don't want to keep, you know, put out a proposal if nobody's interested in it, [00:23:49] but do we like how the suspension of solid, how that's currently working, [00:23:54] or is that something that we want to talk about amending? [00:23:58] Well, suspension means stopping, so I don't know how, nothing's currently being stopped, [00:24:03] so I think the question really is when you switch from one system of collection to the other, [00:24:09] is that how you're saying suspension? [00:24:11] No, it's like a vacation. [00:24:13] An opt-out. [00:24:14] A temporary opt-out. [00:24:17] For a few months. [00:24:18] Yeah, I think what you're saying is this is the end of the time that we're charging, [00:24:22] and so the real question becomes implementing water bills, [00:24:26] and this was the argument against it when you first brought it up, [00:24:29] is that you send out bills at different time frames, and you have different zones. [00:24:33] How many zones do we have in this city? [00:24:35] Do you know, like, multiple? [00:24:37] We have zones and routes, so we have multiple routes built on a cycle. [00:24:40] But the zones are how many times do you send a bill out? [00:24:45] Once a month to three different zones, or does everybody get billed? [00:24:50] No, not everyone's billed. [00:24:51] That's the point. [00:24:52] No, we have multiple cycles and routes, multiple routes in one cycle. [00:24:56] So the trick is to merge this system from one to the other, [00:25:00] and I think I have to say we'd have to leave that up to the administration [00:25:03] to figure out the best way to do it. [00:25:05] Suspending the sys services, I don't know what that means. [00:25:10] I think it's also working with the garbage hauler to tell them that you're going to change it. [00:25:14] They're not happy because they didn't collect all the money. [00:25:17] They're going to get their money under this system a lot more efficiently and monthly. [00:25:22] What do you mean you don't know what it means? [00:25:24] They say what it means. [00:25:26] What do you mean by suspension if you don't know? [00:25:28] Well, if I'm suspending my service, if you're talking about somebody going on vacation, [00:25:32] then I think that that's negotiable with the garbage hauler. [00:25:36] If we suspend the water and they're not there for garbage, [00:25:38] then it's possible we could go back to the contract we already have with the garbage hauler [00:25:43] and say we'll collect money because right now we only give them money when we collect it. [00:25:48] So if we don't collect it and we say we're not going to collect it because they're not there, [00:25:53] it would be up to them to argue to say, well, I still want the money, [00:25:55] even though there's no garbage in that house. [00:25:58] The way I understood it is right now if someone is gone for three months or more than three months [00:26:05] and the water is in their name and the water is disconnected, they can suspend their trash. [00:26:12] Is that not how it's? [00:26:13] Correct. [00:26:15] So that's how it's currently working. [00:26:17] The only thing that I think could be different is a lot of people don't want to turn their water off. [00:26:23] So a lot of people who go out of town leave their electric and their water on. [00:26:27] I mean, my in-laws did it for 20 years in West Palm Beach. [00:26:30] So I don't know if there's something we can do to change that [00:26:34] because I definitely think it should be a minimum of three months, [00:26:37] but we've got to figure a way that we can still leave their water on and allow them to stop the trash. [00:26:43] Okay, I think the answer to that is if they own the property. [00:26:46] Yeah, if they own the property. [00:26:47] Now, if it's a renter, no. [00:26:49] Okay, does that make sense? [00:26:50] Yeah, true. [00:26:52] Because a renter is not going to go away for three months. [00:26:56] It is very difficult to monitor that because they come back and they use their water. [00:27:02] The only way to monitor it is to constantly monitor those accounts to see if there's any usage. [00:27:06] The argument there is we have a sprinkler system, we have pool refill. [00:27:10] My neighbor comes over and hoses my lawn down with my hose, [00:27:14] and really the only way for us to monitor that is to constantly drive by, see if there's cars there. [00:27:19] And we can only do that during business hours. [00:27:22] Do you have any percentage idea of what that question is, like 1, 2, 0, 9? [00:27:28] What's the percentage of people that are going through that opt-out? [00:27:31] We have about 30 to 40 on the vacation hold list at a time. [00:27:37] Out of 10, 12,000? [00:27:39] Out of 17,000. [00:27:40] Out of how many thousand? [00:27:41] 5,000. [00:27:42] Not 17,000. [00:27:43] Residents. [00:27:44] I'm saying residents. [00:27:45] Households. [00:27:46] Inside. [00:27:47] Yeah, not our service area. [00:27:48] Right. [00:27:49] Gotcha. [00:27:50] I don't know. [00:27:51] Well, go ahead. [00:27:52] Well, I mean, that's a tough call, so we're going to squabble over 30 or 40 people. [00:27:55] I mean... [00:27:56] I asked you to speak and let you speak, so now it's... [00:27:57] No, no, no. [00:27:58] Right. [00:27:59] So that's, I mean, that's the hard part. [00:28:00] And I don't want to create a bunch more work for you guys, because then we're just spending extra money monitoring these people, [00:28:01] and then we're not helping the cause anyway. [00:28:02] Right. [00:28:03] Right. [00:28:04] Right. [00:28:05] Right. [00:28:06] Right. [00:28:07] Right. [00:28:08] Right. [00:28:09] Right. [00:28:10] Right. [00:28:11] Right. [00:28:12] Right. [00:28:13] Right. [00:28:14] Right. [00:28:15] Right. [00:28:16] Right. [00:28:17] So we're kind of shooting ourselves in the foot by doing that. [00:28:18] So do we just keep it the way it is? [00:28:19] So you've got to turn your water off if you're going to disconnect from your trash? [00:28:20] That's consistent. [00:28:21] That would be consistent with how other municipalities are handling it. [00:28:22] I think we've kind of got to keep it that way. [00:28:23] So, go ahead. [00:28:24] Just to make it simple, if you turn your water off, then you can spend your trash. [00:28:25] If you don't, it stays. [00:28:26] Yep. [00:28:27] That's it. [00:28:28] Yep. [00:28:29] Mm-hmm. [00:28:30] I agree. [00:28:31] So there's a fee to turn the trash off and a fee to turn the trash back on. [00:28:32] Right. [00:28:33] Right. [00:28:34] Right. [00:28:35] Right. [00:28:36] Right. [00:28:37] Right. [00:28:38] Right. [00:28:39] Right. [00:28:40] Right. [00:28:41] Right. [00:28:42] Right. [00:28:44] Right. [00:28:45] Right. [00:28:46] Right. [00:28:47] Right. [00:28:48] So there's a fee to turn the trash off and a fee to turn the trash back on. [00:28:49] Right. [00:28:50] Right. [00:28:51] So we're really not talking about very much. [00:28:52] No. [00:28:53] The turn-off fees probably a month, and the turn-on fees a month. [00:28:54] Just is what it is, yeah. [00:28:55] So it'd be one month in the middle. [00:28:56] And suspension fees? [00:28:57] Yeah. [00:28:58] Twenty-five to turn off and 25 to turn back on. [00:28:59] And the three-month billing cycle for three months of trash, it's $62,000, $37,000? [00:29:05] Twenty-five for water, 25 for trash, or 25 to turn on the whole? [00:29:09] No. [00:29:10] Just trash. [00:29:11] Just trash. [00:29:12] Just trash. [00:29:13] So there's a turn-on fee if we've shut it off for non-payment. [00:29:19] But if the customer has requested to be shut off, there's no turn-off or turn-on fee for [00:29:23] the water utility. [00:29:24] So you would pay $50. [00:29:25] It really doesn't make sense to shut the trash off. [00:29:26] And you really would pay $60 to let the trash go. [00:29:28] And that's pretty consistent with Tarpon Springs. [00:29:31] Right. [00:29:32] Right. [00:29:33] Okay. [00:29:34] Brian, are you finished? [00:29:37] No, I agree. [00:29:40] I like the one bill. [00:29:42] The only thing that I'd like to see better is our billing is a little quirky. [00:29:50] And I speak from personal experience where, you know, we had it set up direct, and then [00:29:55] for whatever reason, there was a change in the system. [00:29:57] And if you had to direct the drug. [00:30:00] it kicked you out, but you didn't know. [00:30:02] Correct. [00:30:03] So then you get a notice. [00:30:05] So I just would like to be a little bit better [00:30:08] with our billing, because I just hate when residents [00:30:11] come to me and complain about their bill. [00:30:13] I didn't know I got my bill, then I got a late notice. [00:30:16] So I don't know if there's anything in the system [00:30:19] that we can change to make that better, [00:30:21] but when you have it on automatic, [00:30:24] you just assume, hey, it's coming out every month, I'm good. [00:30:28] And especially for people who are maybe here, [00:30:31] then it becomes a problem. [00:30:33] So that'd be the one thing that I would like [00:30:35] to see a little better, but I definitely want to see it. [00:30:37] One bill, I like the sequence, I think that's all great. [00:30:42] And I think we should kind of keep everything else [00:30:45] the way it is. [00:30:46] And there have been shortcomings with the billing system, [00:30:50] but I think Crystal has worked through those issues [00:30:55] with our software company so that we won't have [00:30:58] any repeat errors. [00:30:59] Is this, are you saying one bill to the landlord [00:31:02] or one bill to the tenant? [00:31:04] Yeah. [00:31:05] Yeah, I gave you one. [00:31:05] Yeah, no, I think we need to send it to both. [00:31:08] Both, yeah. [00:31:09] Okay. [00:31:10] The dual notification at the courtesy. [00:31:12] Yeah, I mean, that would be the option [00:31:15] if the landlord wants to pay everything [00:31:16] and bill the rental, they can say, [00:31:19] don't even send it to the rental. [00:31:20] It's up to the owner, they're the ones in charge, [00:31:22] but they can have the renter pay it. [00:31:24] Let Matt speak. [00:31:26] I mean, I'm for putting it on one bill. [00:31:30] And like I said, if they turn the water off, [00:31:32] or turn the trash off that they don't, [00:31:34] then it stays on. [00:31:36] Keep it simple. [00:31:38] I'm just gonna nickname two groups, [00:31:40] slumlords and trash renters. [00:31:45] And that's 45% of our town. [00:31:49] Yes. [00:31:50] So we have some great landlords, [00:31:52] we have some great tenants, [00:31:53] but we also have slumlords, we have trash tenants. [00:31:57] You're a slumlord? [00:31:58] So, you know, one thing that I like is, [00:32:00] especially the trash end of it, is 30 days. [00:32:04] And I also like that the landlord gets to be notified. [00:32:07] Because then, if I'm gonna move out in three months, [00:32:12] I don't pay my trash bill. [00:32:13] Right. [00:32:14] You know, so, you know, [00:32:16] that I think is actually more the responsibility [00:32:18] of the landlord than the tenant. [00:32:20] Now, what way the landlord gets the money [00:32:22] out of the tenant, that's up to him. [00:32:24] Whether he pays it, in my case, he pays it. [00:32:26] In other places, you know, they've gotta pay him. [00:32:29] But whatever that is, they can work that out. [00:32:32] And I think the landlords will start changing [00:32:33] their rental fees to take care of that trash problem. [00:32:37] I think. [00:32:37] But they're slumlords, so who knows? [00:32:39] You know, they don't care sometimes, too. [00:32:42] So there's that medium. [00:32:44] But the water can vary from month to month, [00:32:47] depending on the amount of people you had [00:32:49] through Christmas, or the amount of people you had [00:32:50] through, you know, kids at home all summer. [00:32:53] You know, you had the pool running, [00:32:56] they got the hoses on, and, you know, [00:32:58] it's all different things. [00:32:59] So that's gonna be varied. [00:33:00] So to expect a landlord to effect a fee [00:33:04] on the tenant, that's not, that doesn't fit. [00:33:09] But maybe the deposit fee can back that up a little bit, too. [00:33:16] So, who pays the, who do you guys think [00:33:19] should pay the fee for the water bill, [00:33:22] and the, you know, the additional, [00:33:25] the, what do you call it, the deposit? [00:33:28] Who do you think should be paying the deposit? [00:33:30] Yeah, what's interesting. [00:33:31] Are you being raised? [00:33:32] Oh, go ahead, I'm sorry. [00:33:34] I'm so sorry, teacher mode kicked in. [00:33:38] What's interesting is that if the owner [00:33:40] is responsible, the owner would just keep his deposit on. [00:33:44] Right. [00:33:45] And then what would happen is, if the renter [00:33:46] runs off and doesn't pay it, the next time he leases, [00:33:52] he's gonna get a deposit for the water [00:33:54] to get it turned back on. [00:33:55] Right. [00:33:56] Until, and so, I think. [00:33:57] So the water, you think the deposit should, [00:33:59] that's why I'm wearing my hat. [00:34:00] Yeah, it stays with the owner. [00:34:02] The deposit on both, both of them are with the owner? [00:34:04] Yeah, I think so. [00:34:06] Go ahead. [00:34:06] And that is if the, you know, the owner is renting [00:34:12] and he gets aggravated with our rules [00:34:13] and he sells it to a permanent person, better for us. [00:34:18] Yeah. [00:34:18] Yeah, so. [00:34:19] Yeah, let's kick out residents. [00:34:21] Yeah. [00:34:21] Wow. [00:34:22] Renters. [00:34:23] Do you have an idea of what we want then? [00:34:25] Renters. [00:34:25] We don't want renters. [00:34:27] Well, we're, you know, lopsided, [00:34:29] we're kind of heavy on renters, [00:34:31] and facts are that people who own their home [00:34:34] are gonna be more part of a community, [00:34:36] take care of it better, the whole nine yards. [00:34:38] So the more people, the less renters we have, [00:34:41] the better it's gonna be. [00:34:42] It was hard, it was hard to have five trash haulers [00:34:45] and, you know, 3,000 addresses [00:34:48] and making sure everybody got trash. [00:34:50] Pick up, so especially with 45% renters, [00:34:53] so, you know, there's a mistake there too. [00:34:57] So going to one trash hauler worked out [00:34:59] that we know everybody's got it, [00:35:01] and we're actually administrating it. [00:35:02] So do you have an idea of what we want then? [00:35:05] I think between the five of us, [00:35:06] we're pretty much on the same page. [00:35:07] And we're all in agreeance. [00:35:09] Yeah. [00:35:10] Maybe not about kicking renters out. [00:35:12] Robert, do you have any questions? [00:35:13] I just want to make sure, [00:35:14] so that means we have to change the water ordinance [00:35:16] to reflect that it's the homeowner, [00:35:19] so that it will line up with the trash? [00:35:21] Yes. [00:35:23] Crystal, questions? [00:35:24] It's monthly, not quarterly. [00:35:25] Correct. [00:35:26] Right. [00:35:27] Okay, now. [00:35:28] Okay, now this is. [00:35:29] I'm sorry, say that again, Mayor. [00:35:30] The trash is now monthly, not quarterly. [00:35:33] Okay, and the other thing is, when does this start? [00:35:37] First of the year? [00:35:38] I don't know, that's what I'm saying, [00:35:39] this is the 10th right now. [00:35:41] When does it start? [00:35:42] Two weeks. [00:35:43] When does it start? [00:35:45] The ordinance has to go into place first. [00:35:47] Yes. [00:35:50] Will the project? [00:35:51] March or maybe April, something. [00:35:53] Will you be doing quarterly, probably, [00:35:54] so probably, since trash is quarterly, [00:35:57] is it January, February, March, April, May, June, [00:36:01] you know, those quarters are the fiscal quarters. [00:36:04] Right, we'll be working to move it along. [00:36:07] The efficiency will do us good. [00:36:09] No, but I'm saying, right now, is our quarterly [00:36:13] for the trash a fiscal quarter or a annual quarter? [00:36:16] Fiscal quarter. [00:36:17] But it's still October through December, [00:36:21] January through March. [00:36:22] Oh, okay, yeah, you're right. [00:36:24] Probably implemented in April. [00:36:27] Unless that'll mess you up. [00:36:29] Well, we have, we would need to start [00:36:31] with the water ordinance. [00:36:32] Right. [00:36:33] Updating the utility ordinance. [00:36:36] It's January. [00:36:37] We would need to discuss the payment, [00:36:40] the current payment method to the hauler, [00:36:45] because at that point, all the bills would be collectible, [00:36:48] because it's all in the owner's name. [00:36:50] Right. [00:36:51] If, also the process, we do have a proposal [00:36:57] with the update that would allow the owners two years [00:37:00] to move those bills into their name [00:37:04] to give them a proper amount of time. [00:37:06] That seems very liberal. [00:37:09] Okay, we would need to discuss that then? [00:37:12] The amount of time we want to allow owners? [00:37:12] No, that's stuff you guys gotta do behind the scenes. [00:37:15] Yeah. [00:37:16] Well, we would implement that would be part [00:37:17] of the ordinance. [00:37:18] Right, but I'm saying, what do we think is reasonable [00:37:20] for the owner to switch it to their name? [00:37:23] What, I thought we were doing, [00:37:25] so we're doing owner only, is that? [00:37:27] Yes. [00:37:28] Okay. [00:37:28] Well, I thought we were doing both. [00:37:32] Well, we're sending it to both, [00:37:33] but the owner is ultimately responsible. [00:37:35] Okay, but the, yeah. [00:37:37] For two addresses. [00:37:38] Yes, okay, okay. [00:37:39] That means the landlord gets ahold of me and says, [00:37:42] you're taking care of the water, [00:37:43] I'm taking care of the trash. [00:37:44] Okay, I got the bill. [00:37:45] And then we only look at the bill as being paid. [00:37:48] Right. [00:37:49] As a whole. [00:37:49] Right, yes. [00:37:50] Right. [00:37:51] Okay. [00:37:52] So, what do we think is a reasonable time? [00:37:54] John, for just, I wanted to say to you particularly, [00:37:56] because during these meetings when the crowd was in there, [00:37:59] for whatever reason, they were all happy with me, [00:38:03] but I would, I'm offering to suggest [00:38:07] that I'm going to defend this to those who come in [00:38:10] that are not happy. [00:38:11] So, I'm going to take my turn at the wheel. [00:38:13] I've seen it, I know why, [00:38:18] and so you all took a lot of flack, and. [00:38:23] They chose which side we are on before we made it. [00:38:25] That's right. [00:38:26] Something came out of our mouth. [00:38:28] I know, and at this point, I'm just saying, [00:38:30] there will be some that are opposed to it, [00:38:31] so I pledge to you that thanks to you all doing this, [00:38:38] I think it's better business for the city. [00:38:39] We'll collect some of these, [00:38:41] we'll have a better collection result on our water. [00:38:46] Right. [00:38:47] And I know from having been here just how difficult it was, [00:38:49] and I spoke to Debbie about this today, [00:38:52] and I said, go down to the office [00:38:54] and look at the box of returned mail, [00:38:58] because what drove me crazy was seeing returned mail [00:39:02] coming in in such volume when those bills go out [00:39:05] that nobody can process it, [00:39:07] and half the time it's like the person has moved [00:39:10] and left no forwarding address, [00:39:12] or maybe they've been gone three months, [00:39:14] and so the forwarding has stopped, [00:39:17] and we're getting mail on water systems [00:39:20] where we are still adding the water bills, [00:39:23] but the renter's gone, [00:39:25] and so now the owners are going to have to know, [00:39:29] they have to pay attention, [00:39:30] and they'll get the bill every month. [00:39:32] Maybe we'll move them out of the slumlord column. [00:39:35] Well, it'll allow us to not lose money [00:39:37] and have our billing system get all messed up, [00:39:39] because we're billing people who aren't there, [00:39:41] who aren't going to pay, [00:39:42] and then I remember you asking me [00:39:44] to try to go after and collect those back payments, [00:39:46] and when they leave state, [00:39:48] or we don't know where they're at, [00:39:49] it's a big job to try to go back and collect [00:39:52] from folks that are transit, [00:39:54] and you don't even know. [00:39:55] And I like, I mean, it's only 20 bucks, [00:39:57] but if they leave three months down, [00:40:00] or 60 bucks, [00:40:01] plus before we figure out that they're gone, [00:40:04] there's another 20, another 20, [00:40:05] all of a sudden it's 100 bucks. [00:40:07] That's right, and it's even more if it's water and sewer. [00:40:09] We still got to pay the trash hauler. [00:40:12] But it's the water and sewer. [00:40:14] I think our current agreement says [00:40:16] we pay when we collect, though, does it not? [00:40:18] It does say that on our solid waste contract. [00:40:20] So the trash haulers are the ones [00:40:22] that are out of luck when we lose the money, [00:40:24] so we've really been trying to fight [00:40:25] to collect the money for them. [00:40:27] They should be happy with this, I would think. [00:40:29] Well, we currently bill owners for trash. [00:40:32] But we're not collecting at all, [00:40:33] because that's when you said we had the problem [00:40:35] with getting the collections that way as well. [00:40:37] Right. [00:40:39] We have collected a large sum. [00:40:40] I think a lot of those people that came here [00:40:41] in the stink is because it went on their tax bill, [00:40:45] and yeah, and they just had, [00:40:47] they're only a few days late, you know. [00:40:50] We have collected almost half of that balance [00:40:53] in our first month of tax bills going out. [00:40:57] They had to give the information [00:40:58] to the tax collector weeks ahead, [00:41:01] so by the time it finally got out to them, [00:41:03] they may have already paid it, [00:41:05] and then so there was some confusion there. [00:41:07] We recognized them, we removed them. [00:41:09] Yeah, yeah, I know you did, but they got the notice. [00:41:12] They were here. [00:41:13] They were. [00:41:14] Yep. [00:41:15] Right. [00:41:17] And so it's all good.

   This text was generated automatically from the meeting video. It is not a verbatim or official record. For exact wording, consult the video or the city clerk.

3. 3Communications▶ 41:18
4. 4Adjournment▶ 41:20