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1. 1Call to Order - Roll Call▶ 0:00
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   Downtown Grand Blvd. Streetscape Concept

   discussed

   FDC Florida Design Consultants presented a conceptual streetscape plan for Grand Boulevard from Delaware/Illinois to Circle Drive/Orange Lake, featuring reduced street width, on-street parking, expanded sidewalks, larger trees, and outdoor dining space to slow traffic and improve pedestrian experience. Council provided input including widening sidewalks near the new candy store, reconsidering single parking spaces, using 4-inch trees, and addressing underground utilities. No formal vote was taken; this was a work session for direction only.

   • direction:Council directed consultants to consider widening the sidewalk on the west side near the new candy store to support emerging retail use, and to evaluate eliminating isolated single parking spaces. (none)
   • direction:Council directed staff to include underground utility evaluation (including cast iron replacement) as part of the project. (none)

   📍Grand Boulevard from Delaware to Circle Drive/Orange Lake📍Illinois Avenue📍Main Street📍Missouri Avenue📍Montana Avenue📍Nebraska Avenue📍Porpoise Alley🏢Back Drafts🏢Creamery🏢FDC Florida Design Consultants🏢Infusion🏢Village Pub🏢Wheat, Barley, and Oats🏢Zen👤David Fleeman👤Mr. Rivera👤Ms. Mance👤Rob Brosner#CIP (Capital Improvement Program)#Grand Boulevard Streetscape concept plan#Parklets removal#Road diet

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   [00:00:29] purpose of the meeting this evening is to discuss a concept plan that we've [00:00:37] developed for the Grand Boulevard area of our downtown spanning from Montana to [00:00:49] Orange Lake. Mr. Rivera has been the principal leading the project and so I'm [00:00:56] going to allow him to take over the discussion and introduce our consultant [00:01:01] on the project and we're hopeful to get some input from you on our proposal [00:01:08] tonight so that we can know what direction to take the project in moving [00:01:14] forward. You might want to sit over here you'll see better. Mr. Rivera. Thank you [00:01:23] Ms. Mance. In addition to what you've explained about the project this meeting [00:01:27] does give you all the opportunity at the beginning of a project to review it as a [00:01:33] consultant presents it and to give any kind of ideas or any kind of additional [00:01:39] elements that you might like to see as part of the project. It is in your CIP so [00:01:47] it is budgeted for this year to be able to start the design and preliminary [00:01:52] design as well as the design process. We have with us Mr. David Fleeman and Mr. [00:01:59] Rob Brosner from FDC Florida Design Consultants. They're working with us to [00:02:04] present the conceptual drawing that you guys are going to see and that you'll [00:02:10] give us input in and also gives us the opportunity for any public input before [00:02:15] we start to design as well. So as the process moves forward we'll present the [00:02:20] concept they will go back and incorporate those those elements and [00:02:24] then we'll have an additional public meeting that they will return and [00:02:29] basically show you the 3d renderings of of all the elements that have been [00:02:33] discussed and stuff like that so we can get one more final input from you as [00:02:37] well as the public. So with that I'll turn it over to David and Rob. Before we [00:02:42] do, although we really do want to hear them speak, the plan is purposeful from [00:02:50] two different perspectives. The first is we really want to slow down the speed of [00:02:56] travelers in vehicles through the city's downtown area. Secondarily we want to [00:03:04] take advantage of some additional patron space in the downtown area by bumping [00:03:12] out sidewalks and making it a better pedestrian experience for people and [00:03:17] that's whether they're walking or whether our businesses want to [00:03:22] capitalize on the opportunity to provide additional sidewalk cafe space in front [00:03:29] of their establishments. And I think that you'll find that the design achieves all [00:03:35] of those objectives. Thank you. As you may recall we were here several months ago [00:03:43] and presented a early version of this plan and based on some feedback that [00:03:50] we've received here and from staff we've expanded the the limits that are being [00:03:57] evaluated. So what we're presenting tonight starts in Delaware and runs all [00:04:02] the way to Circle Drive or Orange Lake. And with that I'm going to let Rob who [00:04:08] heads up our planning and landscape architecture departments at FTC. He's the [00:04:14] one that actually built the model and let him start describing the slides as [00:04:20] we put them on the screen. Do you have extra copies of what you got in front of [00:04:24] you? I do not have extra handouts. We can provide them and we have right now. We [00:04:31] have we have pictures on the screen. I know but you can I can go like this here [00:04:34] and then. You're welcome to have my copy if you. Just you know I mean it just seems [00:04:43] like it'd be a little more closer to see. [00:04:48] Can we pull it up? So it's easier to see over people. There we go. So this portion of [00:05:04] the the plan is two halves just because it couldn't fit all in one slide but this [00:05:08] is the site plan from Illinois all the way to Porpoise Alley. We really kind of [00:05:13] started the project at Delaware but the transition lane change that would have [00:05:18] to require to as the street reduces. That's why we showed this from Illinois [00:05:24] because there'll be some restriping. There's some restriping already done [00:05:26] there but they'll have to be in a slight adjustment for the lane. So the big move [00:05:30] here was to reduce the width of the street instead of having a suicide lane [00:05:35] or double turn lane down the center is to have it be two lane and then on street [00:05:40] parking the additional space could be added to the sidewalk space and have a [00:05:44] more green space so we can add more trees and make a much much nicer look. [00:05:48] And this is designed in a context sensitive way where it's reminiscent of [00:05:54] what the block has on it. So these first few blocks are more auto oriented so the [00:05:59] intention was instead of this massive wide driveways is to have a more [00:06:03] standard driveway a little more green space so we can put more trees in make [00:06:07] a little more friendly and as you go north it gets a little more urban on [00:06:11] each block. And so we go to the next slide and this is where it gets a little [00:06:15] more urban and you start to see the block with the theater on it and the [00:06:19] places with the outdoor dining and this is where we you really can see where the [00:06:25] extra width is done and you can see on there there's a, has this got a [00:06:31] pointer on it? [00:06:37] Oh I thought this had a, no laser okay. Okay so on each side you'll see that [00:06:47] there's a, it does have a magnifying glass on it though instead of a laser. [00:06:52] You want to show me how that works? [00:06:55] Is that it? I think it's just the arrow. Okay that's okay the arrow worked. Okay. [00:07:03] Okay now that I understand. So you can see right here in front of the theater [00:07:08] there's kind of this, these are four by four squares which gives you about eight [00:07:13] feet in front of it and then it gives you another six or eight feet of walking [00:07:18] space and space that's right up against the curb for the parking spaces so you [00:07:23] have kind of this area for parking. I'm sorry? Are the parklets going or what do we call them? [00:07:29] They're kind of being incorporated now. Now the parklets would not remain in [00:07:35] place. Right, so this new landscaping would replace some of that. But there are [00:07:40] parking spaces included along Grand Boulevard as well. Is there room in that width for them to have [00:07:46] tables? Oh absolutely. Yes, we're giving them additional space. That's what I meant. [00:07:51] So this is the site plan so we're going to go. The next slides we'll zoom in and [00:07:55] look at it a little more detail. A little bit more effective. We're starting really at a large [00:07:58] scale. We're going to be zooming in. So this is looking south to north from Illinois all [00:08:02] the way up to Circle Avenue and just to give you the sense of you can see how it [00:08:06] goes from a little less dense to much more dense as you go north and you can [00:08:10] see how many trees and kind of this is more like now a street like Treeline [00:08:13] Street with a really nice context. And this is a little more axonometric and we [00:08:18] look at this in quarters. So what you can see, if I can find the cursor, you can see [00:08:24] here we have on-street parking. We have some green space between the parking and [00:08:29] the and then some green space between us and the property which makes the [00:08:33] sidewalk a lot nicer and it makes a lot a little bit better. And then moving on [00:08:37] to the next, we get a little more urban. As you can see right down here this is [00:08:45] in front of the theater, in front of Zen. There's room for tables and chairs. [00:08:49] There's room for on-street parking in front of the theater. We showed kind of a [00:08:55] more managed curbside where you can do the Uber lift drop-off thing for people [00:08:59] that are coming to the theater or if you're going to pull up and pick up some [00:09:03] takeout or whatever or DoorDash pulls up then that becomes more of a managed [00:09:07] space. And then similar kind of spaces on the other side of the street and we [00:09:10] staggered it so it didn't look too symmetrical. And then also that same look [00:09:14] and then as you go north past Nebraska up to Main Street gets a little narrower [00:09:20] but we still need the left turn lane as part of that. So this is where the [00:09:24] context changes a little bit and we just kind of reconfigure the sidewalk and the [00:09:29] curbs and the trees to be a little more consistent with the rest. And then as we [00:09:33] move north of Main Street you get that feel again where you have some [00:09:40] outdoor dining because you have a restaurant here, you have another [00:09:42] restaurant that's here, more of an office space here, and then of course office and [00:09:47] kind of a plaza space at the north end. And then of course the Memorial is [00:09:51] kind of the pinnacle of what's at the end of the streetscape. So to get down [00:09:55] more of a streetscape view, so this is at Delaware looking north, this is where [00:10:01] that more auto-centric version of this where you know you're having more [00:10:08] driveways, again there's buildings are set back in some areas there's no [00:10:12] buildings, they're empty lots or just a house. And as we move north you can see [00:10:18] how those driveways work and how cross streets, it's a lot safer, it's [00:10:22] narrower, it's a cleaner look. And as you get up to Porpoise Alley you can start [00:10:27] seeing where the on-street, you can see tables and chairs off to the right and [00:10:32] then we score the sidewalk a little different. So where you're supposed to [00:10:37] walk is a little busier, a little tighter texture, and then where you're supposed [00:10:41] to relax and have space, they're four by four squares instead of two by two [00:10:46] squares, so it kind of makes you feel more like it's a place of resting. And [00:10:50] then of course we're showing people walking and cars and the restaurant [00:10:54] across the street already has their own patio space. And so over there we add a [00:10:58] little more green space because there's actually a parking lot in that little [00:11:00] strip mall next to it. Strip mall, that's a village pub. Right, but I mean in the way of this parking that's right up against the street. [00:11:08] What are you saying? Oh, on the left there? Yeah, on the left. I know it's a pub, but I mean, it's strip retail, dining at the village pub, wheat, [00:11:17] barley, and oats maybe. And then of course this is where Zen is and this is kind of [00:11:21] showing how those tables and chairs would work and they do have some [00:11:25] canopies already out there that, you know, show up in Google Maps, so we showed [00:11:29] those. Parklets are going. And then there's now green space for where those [00:11:33] were and the extra space instead of them being out in the street, now it's [00:11:36] basically what you were trying to do with a parklet was to gain some green [00:11:40] space where there was curbs before. Now we're putting everything behind the curb [00:11:44] because the streets narrowing down. Yeah, at this point, what's the [00:11:49] advantage of one parking spot? I was gonna ask the same thing. I mean, if I have a [00:11:54] couple parking spots in front of the theater, that's more of a Uber unloading [00:11:59] loading type of thing, but one parking spot where you got that red car, why? Well, [00:12:04] I think it was a... We were trying to what we would call manage spaces so that they [00:12:09] can be utilized by the Ubers coming to pick up food, that type of thing, to where [00:12:14] they need to pull in something that somebody's ordered and then they can [00:12:18] take off or in the theater. In my opinion, that'd be around the corner because [00:12:23] that would never be open. For one spot, people would be... Well, the sign would say [00:12:29] 15-minute parking, you know, pick up, drop off only. Yeah, it would designate what it was [00:12:34] for. That's what I'm asking. And at this point, this is conceptual, we haven't [00:12:39] really designated for plans and specifications exact locations for the [00:12:44] parking spots. I just feel that's more of a walkable area than a parking area. Yeah, but [00:12:50] we're looking for your approval on the alignment of where we put the lanes, the [00:12:56] parking, the landscaping, the sidewalk, and the extra curb area for... Are you putting [00:13:04] in trees that size to start with? They won't likely be exactly that size, but [00:13:10] we're trying to go for that scale. At least half, right? Or more. I would hope we would be doing four to five inch trees instead of two inch trees. [00:13:21] Three or four inch diameter trunks. Yeah, four inch trees for sure, so that they get an immediate feel. Obviously, a two-inch tree [00:13:28] would just take forever to get there. Correct, but eventually it would end up being what you have in [00:13:32] front of City Hall and stuff, where you have the larger oaks that are coming [00:13:35] over. You want our input, I've got to ask questions. Absolutely. So looking on the [00:13:43] other side of the street, this is also mirrored. So in this case, two spaces were [00:13:47] on this side, one space was on the other, and when we were here the last time at [00:13:51] the public meeting, you know, the business owners were like, we still want a couple [00:13:55] parking spaces. So it was part of the response to that request back then. Again, [00:13:59] this has evolved and will continue to evolve until you guys get happy with [00:14:03] the design. So this is moving down to where you go just north, just up to [00:14:10] Main Street here, and I'm sorry, Main Street's behind me, I'm sorry, Main Street's in [00:14:16] front of us, Nebraska's behind us. Right. And so this is where we have to have the [00:14:20] left-hand turn lane, and again, since the curbs are really not moving that much, [00:14:24] we're reconfiguring the sidewalk to be more consistent with, in this case, some [00:14:28] tree grates so that there's a little more walkability, and then it's mostly a [00:14:32] walking space. Now, the two businesses that are immediately adjacent to this aren't [00:14:36] looking for that kind of thing, because the business on the right here works [00:14:40] north and south. The building on the left has a patio space to the south of its [00:14:45] building, which is adjacent, so the left turn lane was still a more important [00:14:50] movement here, so that's why this is included. Yeah. So, and then moving on up to the [00:14:56] next part, this is just showing that the restaurant next to [00:15:00] already has some outdoor eating space, but there's more space. Again, the two people [00:15:04] that are standing at the crosswalk there, there's actually parking spaces there. You [00:15:08] can see the driveway where it comes out because it's one way. Again, we didn't want to draw [00:15:12] a bunch of cars in there, but there would be parking there. [00:15:15] Now, down here, off to the left, there is more offices. The parking is a little more [00:15:21] important, so we wanted to make sure that there were the appropriate sized islands to [00:15:25] have these nicer trees and still have on-street parking nearby. Again, two blocks back where [00:15:31] we had those, we do have the parking lots that are a couple blocks away that you guys [00:15:35] had built a few years ago that people do park and walk. I mean, last time I ate at Zen, [00:15:40] I parked in that parking lot and just walked down the street and got into Zen. [00:15:46] And then just moving a little bit further north, as you get to the end to Circle, you [00:15:49] can see the monument is still the key focus of this, and that office to the right is still [00:15:56] the same thing. It doesn't look like they're using that space or needing that space for [00:16:01] tables and chairs because they're an office space. Obviously, on the left, we have a nice [00:16:06] patio space. You can see some tables and chairs off to the far left with bike racks and that [00:16:11] kind of thing because there is a plaza space just north of that building with the round [00:16:15] on it. And that's a good transition to that next block as you go around to Circle Avenue. [00:16:21] And I think that's my last slide. [00:16:23] Back on that spot on the left there, it's been lawyers' offices and things like that [00:16:27] now, but we have a candy shop now. [00:16:29] Can you reset that? [00:16:31] Thank you. [00:16:32] We have a candy store there, which is going to be more retail, and I wondered if it might [00:16:36] not down the road be more retail in that area right where the candy store is. [00:16:42] And the nice thing about this is you do have some sufficient on-street parking just here, [00:16:46] and then you have some parking behind the building as well. [00:16:48] I understand that, but what I'm asking this is because they might want more on-street, [00:16:54] more sidewalk here. [00:16:55] Oh, yeah. [00:16:56] Yeah, because they're going to, you know, want to move outside and especially, you know, [00:17:01] I think as, you know, the other places change, they might, you know, and also the access [00:17:06] to the back side, their building to the back side, which is actually hooking them up with [00:17:10] retail back there, meaning infusion, back drafts, and creamery. [00:17:16] So it becomes more of a retail corner, which it might grow more to a retail corner. [00:17:21] And on that north side, they'll have a good amount of space, and if you wanted to, this [00:17:24] last parking space as being a single, you might turn that into a paved space where you [00:17:29] could walk. [00:17:30] You could do that on the left. [00:17:31] There's some room for flexibility, too. [00:17:33] I'm just talking about the width of the sidewalk right now on the left side. [00:17:38] Yes. [00:17:40] Well, you could, you can still utilize the, like, the parking area that's there. [00:17:45] You could, in this case, we're just talking, you could eliminate that parking space and [00:17:49] have that area to utilize for multipurpose as far as wanting to, you could put a seating [00:17:57] area there or green space. [00:17:58] Well, let's say, if you get rid of that parking spot, you might be able to narrow the green [00:18:01] space and then have a wider sidewalk. [00:18:04] Correct. [00:18:05] Just, I'm just a thought here, because I think that's a good idea. [00:18:08] I'm just saying it's the width of the street, because you'd still have the same width from [00:18:11] the other end. [00:18:12] Yeah, let the mayor finish his question. [00:18:13] I'm sorry. [00:18:14] I'm talking about the street size at all. [00:18:15] Oh, okay. [00:18:16] You know, I'm talking about the sidewalk size in that part, you know, and the things that [00:18:20] are going to change on that end. [00:18:22] I think it's going to become more retail. [00:18:24] Mm-hmm. [00:18:25] Just, you know, if we're making this move here now, I think it's time to maybe widen [00:18:29] that sidewalk, too, if possible. [00:18:33] Okay, we can look at that. [00:18:36] And I think that side, too, if I'm not mistaken, it was wider anyway. [00:18:40] But, yeah, we could... [00:18:43] We could... [00:18:44] Can you go back one slide? [00:18:45] ...convert that. [00:18:46] Because, I said, that candy store is a step to taking retail north of... [00:18:50] Mm-hmm. [00:18:51] All the way there. [00:18:52] Yeah. [00:18:53] All right. [00:18:54] Where's the candy store in this front of the building? [00:18:55] Where that car is? [00:18:56] Yeah. [00:18:57] Where the red car is? [00:18:58] Okay. [00:18:59] Didn't know. [00:19:00] Didn't know that the... [00:19:01] Well, that's why I say there's... [00:19:02] It's a new tenant. [00:19:03] Mm-hmm. [00:19:04] Yeah. [00:19:05] It's been... [00:19:06] It's always been office space, but that's the first retail. [00:19:09] And, like I said, behind it is all retail, and you can access the candy store from behind [00:19:16] it, as well as on the... [00:19:17] That's great. [00:19:18] ...ground. [00:19:19] So, you know, the other two businesses, or three businesses there, have the same opportunity [00:19:23] to go out the back door, as well as the front door, and they have parking on the back side. [00:19:28] So, just to add to his presentation, so that you all are aware, we're presenting the... [00:19:35] The conceptual model as a whole, okay? [00:19:40] As we move forward with the CIP process, there may be phases that's involved, but we have [00:19:48] to show you the whole finished product, so you'll see how it will blend in. [00:19:52] This is just... [00:19:53] Like, just... [00:19:54] I mean, he's done this work here, and we open up an idea that he wasn't aware of, and that's [00:20:01] why... [00:20:02] And you guys are like, oh, yeah, yeah. [00:20:03] Mm-hmm. [00:20:05] Just put it in your notes. [00:20:06] I'm not saying you have to. [00:20:07] Got it. [00:20:08] Yeah. [00:20:09] Got it. [00:20:10] And the other thing I wanted to say is that, as we move forward, we'll be getting those [00:20:13] cost estimates, so that when we talk about our CIP program, you'll be able to make those [00:20:18] types of decisions on how you want to implement, if you want to do phases, or if you want to [00:20:23] do the whole project all at once, that's entirely up to you all. [00:20:27] But the other thing that's included in this, this is just above ground. [00:20:30] We will be taking a look at the utilities. [00:20:32] I think there's some cast iron that's underground that we'll have to address, as well. [00:20:38] So just so that you know, we'll be taking a look at the underground, as well. [00:20:42] Oh, yeah. [00:20:43] We don't want to do that one thing and have to come back and do the other without it. [00:20:46] Yeah. [00:20:47] Correct. [00:20:48] Correct. [00:20:49] Yeah. [00:20:50] That's what we're... [00:20:51] Mm-hmm. [00:20:52] That's what Square's all about. [00:20:53] I'm open to any questions you have and thoughts. [00:20:54] I like the fact that he put their... [00:20:55] I like the trees. [00:20:56] I think that'll help. [00:20:57] Help a lot. [00:20:58] Yeah. [00:20:59] It'd be nice to have shade. [00:21:04] Yeah. [00:21:05] And we thought it was really important to have a barrier between traffic and then pedestrians. [00:21:13] And it worked real well down by, right outside here. [00:21:19] Mm-hmm. [00:21:20] Or cafes or whatever. [00:21:26] Anybody else got any input? [00:21:30] Yeah. [00:21:31] Mr. Mayor, if I may... [00:21:32] This is a work session. [00:21:33] It's not like a... [00:21:34] Right. [00:21:35] I just... [00:21:36] I'm going to the A&T tomorrow. [00:21:37] I have bad hearing at the moment, so I'm just making sure I'm not cutting you off. [00:21:42] Okay. [00:21:43] Perfect. [00:21:44] I just want to start by saying thank you to the designers for coming up with this. [00:21:49] I think it really does capture the idea of a road diet and of putting pedestrian safety [00:21:55] first, especially in what is becoming sort of this urban downtown core. [00:21:59] I might be referencing stuff on there, so... [00:22:03] For example, can you go to the Missouri, the slide that deals with... [00:22:08] It's looking northbound on Missouri. [00:22:11] Actually, that was it. [00:22:13] Go back further to the aerial view one. [00:22:19] Four more slides. [00:22:20] You're not in the air yet. [00:22:22] Keep going. [00:22:23] I'll let you know when you get there. [00:22:25] Four more slides. [00:22:27] Bird's eye. [00:22:28] Bird's eye view. [00:22:32] Keep going. [00:22:33] Yeah, keep going backwards. [00:22:35] There you go. [00:22:36] One more. [00:22:37] What's that open space right in front of Delaware? [00:22:41] Because on here I see the gas station there, and I see the mechanic shop. [00:22:44] What's that right... [00:22:45] That's a house. [00:22:46] I just didn't... [00:22:47] Oh, okay. [00:22:48] That's not us. [00:22:49] I didn't build the 3D model of the house. [00:22:50] Okay. [00:22:51] I didn't know if that was a house or if we were putting something open space-wise. [00:22:54] I got the parking lot in because I needed to make sure that the driveway met, but I just [00:22:57] didn't model the 3D house that's right there. [00:22:59] Okay. [00:23:00] That's a residential house there. [00:23:01] No, I think it's a realty office. [00:23:02] It used to be Holden Security, I think. [00:23:05] Yeah. [00:23:06] I think it's a realtor's office. [00:23:07] It is. [00:23:08] It was a little complicated building, and it was also... [00:23:10] The focus was north, so I didn't get a 3D model made of that particular building. [00:23:13] Okay. [00:23:14] If you go one more slide to the right, so forward on the slides, Missouri. [00:23:22] Can we see Missouri from here? [00:23:23] So... [00:23:24] Go back. [00:23:25] Whoa. [00:23:26] Where are you going? [00:23:27] That's fine. [00:23:28] That works. [00:23:29] So on the west side, or I guess this would be the south side, where there's that four-way [00:23:35] pedestrian intersection, I noticed that the plan there, you see they put in a... [00:23:43] I guess you would call it vegetation, or whatever you're going to put there, a tree. [00:23:46] I had brought up a concern that some of the business owners had brought up, that right [00:23:51] now, with what is there, there is a major blind spot looking to the right and the left [00:23:57] if you're coming to the west of Missouri. [00:24:02] So if you're going up and down Missouri right there, when you're looking to the right and [00:24:06] left of Grand, it's a blind spot. [00:24:10] And if you're keeping that left turn lane there, and not cutting it off on Grand, is [00:24:15] that left turn lane staying there? [00:24:17] No. [00:24:18] No, it's getting removed. [00:24:19] Because I know the right... [00:24:22] So you guys said that you are keeping it the one right before Missouri. [00:24:27] Right. [00:24:29] From Nebraska to Main Street, that turn lane will remain. [00:24:34] All the other turn lanes, Nebraska going south, will be eliminated. [00:24:39] So just be conscious of the fact that already it's hard to see, and fortunately with this [00:24:44] road diet, it'll be easier to control the traffic when you're looking left on that [00:24:48] intersection, but then my concern is I think we're trading that out with now that big tree [00:24:53] on the right, it's going to be hard to see cars coming from Main. [00:24:58] Would you like me to respond? [00:25:01] So for the trees, there's a site clearance issue that we have to keep at seven foot clear, [00:25:06] and you only have the four or five inches of the tree itself that would be in the way. [00:25:11] We don't have any real landscaping below that other than no higher than 30 inches, which [00:25:16] meets the site clearance. [00:25:18] Other than the tree. [00:25:19] Other than the tree. [00:25:20] Right. [00:25:21] The tree is clear above your head. [00:25:23] Okay. [00:25:24] And has to be clear for site distance requirements. [00:25:27] But the other thing is, is now that we've narrowed the street, you're going to be further [00:25:32] away from the building. [00:25:33] So if you're concerned about the building being in that site, now you're another five or six [00:25:37] feet out towards the center of the intersection because there's less width of the street. [00:25:42] So you'll be able to see a little better. [00:25:44] Right, because right now just with a palm tree there, it's hard to see turning right. [00:25:49] So all I'm saying is if I'm looking at the current, the palm tree is set back and it's [00:25:54] hard to see to your right when you're at that intersection. [00:25:57] So if you're moving it forward and putting a tree there, I'm just concerned or just being [00:26:01] conscious of the fact that the stop sign sits so far back that now you're putting a tree [00:26:07] where you would have to see. [00:26:09] So I don't know if the stop sign is going to move forward enough to compensate for that. [00:26:14] I can't tell based on this, if it will. [00:26:16] It looks exactly the same as what I have here. [00:26:18] It doesn't look like anything changed. [00:26:20] So I'm just putting that on your radar. [00:26:22] We will make adjustments for that. [00:26:25] And I think we're also getting complaints that when the vehicles that are parked in those [00:26:29] spaces contribute to the blind spot. [00:26:32] So when we take a look at the intersections and we do any kind of improvements, they'll be [00:26:36] according to the current FDOT standards for those visions. [00:26:41] And the city also has a clear zone ordinance in place. [00:26:47] And so we have to make sure that we're meeting those requirements. [00:26:50] And we will. [00:26:51] And we'll take a look at that. [00:26:52] Is that Missouri electronic cross, is it four-way now? [00:26:56] Can you turn that on on all four corners? [00:27:01] The LEDs? [00:27:04] Yes. [00:27:06] It was only two corners you could turn it on. [00:27:08] Well, we can do four corners if that's what you're asking and incorporate it into the project. [00:27:14] Absolutely. [00:27:15] Because we're getting complaints from that. [00:27:17] How come it's only on two corners, not where I want to cross? [00:27:20] But I thought we did install the, I think when you had talked about that once before, [00:27:24] we installed pedestal, Bluetooth pedestals to where if they're on the other corner, [00:27:30] they can push the button. [00:27:31] They could. [00:27:32] I mean, it could be. [00:27:33] I don't know that. [00:27:34] That's why I'm asking. [00:27:35] I'll verify. [00:27:36] I'll follow up. [00:27:37] But that's what we talked about doing. [00:27:38] I'll take Matt down. [00:27:39] We'll check it out tonight. [00:27:40] I'll follow up. [00:27:42] No, I just know it was something in the past. [00:27:45] Yeah, I know it's been brought up. [00:27:47] If we go across, if I caddy corner across, if it's late enough at night, [00:27:49] I know there's no traffic either way. [00:27:51] Yeah, I'll follow up. [00:27:52] But I'm pretty sure we put those pedestals up there because of that. [00:27:57] How's the red light configuration going to change for Main and Grand [00:28:02] with the loss of the turn lane? [00:28:05] We're not losing the turn lane. [00:28:06] There is no loss of a turn lane there. [00:28:08] At Grand? [00:28:10] At Grand and Main, you still have your turn lane. [00:28:12] A left turn lane? [00:28:13] Correct. [00:28:15] It's the only left turn lane that will remain on that section of Grand. [00:28:18] That short block. [00:28:19] The only left left. [00:28:21] Okay. [00:28:28] Are you going to slow the traffic down? [00:28:29] That's the chief's problem, going out of town to the south on Grand. [00:28:33] There's also been at the intersection before that. [00:28:39] Well, I guess since that's River Road Square, so that's all going to change. [00:28:42] But just to put it on your radar, [00:28:43] I don't know how much this factors into River Road Square or this project, [00:28:47] but a lot of cars like to stop at where the Ella's is, the former. [00:28:54] So Nebraska and River Road Square, or I guess that is Nebraska. [00:28:58] Nebraska and Grand, they like to stop right there when the light's red. [00:29:02] So when we talk about that getting backed up, [00:29:05] some of them aren't making it all the way to where they're supposed to be going. [00:29:08] They're treating that first stop as where the light is red, [00:29:14] and so then traffic backs up there. [00:29:16] So I don't know if that's something why people are getting confused by that, [00:29:19] but just put it on your radar. [00:29:22] Okay. [00:29:24] Thank you. [00:29:25] Send them to driver's ed. [00:29:26] Since Councilman Altman is joining us, [00:29:30] maybe we should go back into the slides. [00:29:33] We can stay on that one for a minute. [00:29:35] I have a couple of questions that might be, you know, [00:29:41] but just some basic questions. [00:29:44] The River Road Square block of Nebraska, the square in the middle, [00:29:49] the square in the middle, is that? [00:29:52] I can look this way talking to the mic now that I've had my eye surgery. [00:30:00] What is the square? [00:30:04] Is that a design? [00:30:05] It's a general design that was taken from the preliminary plans from six or eight months [00:30:11] ago and it was just... [00:30:12] It's from the railroad square project. [00:30:13] Yeah, it's from the railroad square. [00:30:14] They gave us some plans and we got it as close as we could and I'm sure it's more refined [00:30:19] now but... [00:30:20] So the question becomes, it looks like Missouri has these well-defined crosswalks and Nebraska [00:30:30] has a square in the middle of the road which is in the... [00:30:37] Which extracts into the lane so I'm not sure what that would mean if it were me driving [00:30:41] up to it. [00:30:42] Out of the ground or... [00:30:43] Well, that can be... [00:30:44] We can alter that and the one that you see there at Nebraska is gonna have stamped pavement [00:30:52] and stuff and gonna be one of those large types of intersections that you see. [00:30:57] We can do the same thing over at Missouri to match the one at railroad square. [00:31:02] You have the tile floor, so to speak, and then everything else. [00:31:05] Yes. [00:31:06] What you're seeing over there in Missouri is what they call a high-emphasis crosswalk [00:31:09] that has all the lines and stuff and most of the time we can add some of the LED lights [00:31:14] in the road and it's strictly that crosswalk but we can add the same type of design as [00:31:20] we move over into the design. [00:31:23] I think it's just worth thinking about considering that's where all of the nighttime traffic [00:31:28] is gonna go between the first phase and the second phase on toward the river behind the [00:31:33] social and all of that so if that's gonna be the pedestrian corridor, it just was something... [00:31:39] Might as well do it now. [00:31:40] ...jumped out at me now to say are we gonna try to manage the pedestrian crossing because [00:31:46] I know Dixie tells me, well, they cross wherever they want and they don't look and so it's [00:31:51] like it's true and that helps. [00:31:52] It's probably as good as a speed bump in that regard because everybody knows this is... [00:31:58] You need a speed bump on Delaware and Grand. [00:32:00] But everyone knows this is an area that they have to watch out for especially on tight [00:32:07] Main Street coming in by the social and the sushi bar and all that with street parking. [00:32:13] So the other thing is the small lanes appear to me to be like a bicycle path but I don't [00:32:20] know what it is. [00:32:21] That you've narrowed the roads, it's just some extra room that's left over from narrowing [00:32:27] the roads that's additional pavement or what is that? [00:32:31] Go back a few slides. [00:32:34] And I'm sorry I'm late. [00:32:38] That's okay. [00:32:39] All right, so these are the plans we just talked about. [00:32:45] This kind of the overview of going Illinois where we're gonna have to do a little bit [00:32:50] of lane shifting to go to the road diet. [00:32:53] And then this is context sensitive as you go south to north, it's a little more auto [00:32:59] oriented because you have businesses that have lots of driveways as you go north, they're [00:33:04] more streetscape, more businesses that come out on the side. [00:33:09] There's not a designated bike path then? [00:33:11] There's no designated bike path. [00:33:14] There's double lines that are on the outside of the parking. [00:33:21] It looks like you've got parking in the block between Missouri and Nebraska. [00:33:26] And as we go to streetscape view, you'll see this is what it kind of looks like. [00:33:31] It's two lanes, on street parking, sidewalks up to the curb. [00:33:35] I gotcha. [00:33:36] And as we move north, you'll see it contextually changes to a more urban space and you start [00:33:42] seeing the tables and chairs and what I was sharing with them before is like if you look [00:33:47] off to the right, you'll see tables and chairs. [00:33:49] The sidewalk pattern there is a little larger in order to indicate the slowdown and then [00:33:54] of course the areas where you walk, the paving is a little, you know, has more of a rhythm [00:33:59] to it and you see people walking on it. [00:34:01] So the current parklet, is that not there anymore then? [00:34:05] The current parklets are gone? [00:34:07] We'll go another one up. [00:34:09] We're going to put the parklet on go and they'll be against the building. [00:34:14] And that gives basically 8 and 8 and then the grass strip for the parking in the trees. [00:34:19] So just push it up against the building like the social or anybody else's and not out in the parking. [00:34:24] So we distribute it evenly on both sides so both sides have basically the same amount of pavement. [00:34:28] Yeah, taking out that center lane. [00:34:30] 8 feet of pavement, wasn't it 8 feet? [00:34:34] Sidewalk. [00:34:35] Of sidewalk on each side and basically taking out that center lane and dividing it. [00:34:40] If the extra space. [00:34:41] And giving it to green space and pedestrian traffic. [00:34:44] On both sides. [00:34:45] So we added 6 more feet to each side and then made it a little more organized. [00:34:50] Very nice. [00:34:51] Thank you. [00:34:52] And I'm only speeding up because I know I feel like you've already been through this. [00:34:56] But the next question I have, I see two wheels there with somebody sitting in it. [00:35:02] But brings two questions up, which is particularly for the theater with a lot of elderly. [00:35:09] And we have talked about having a drop off. [00:35:15] Yes, so if you look on this one, that red car, if you look past that, there's two more parking spaces past that. [00:35:21] And what we were saying earlier was that those would be managed spaces. [00:35:24] And even this one with the red car and it would be a managed space. [00:35:27] And that would be more for like a door dash and somebody's going to pick up a meal. [00:35:32] Good. [00:35:33] And the idea is for the theater, that's a drop off. [00:35:37] And then, you know, someone goes around. [00:35:39] And if you need to do valet for one night or two nights and you want to pay for the service for that, [00:35:43] that's the kind of space that allows for that. [00:35:45] And then during special events, we still have the trolley operating in the space on Nebraska. [00:35:51] That would be utilized for the trolley to drop off. [00:35:54] In my opinion, if that tight little block should be all quick in and out. [00:35:59] You know, there should be no reason for an employee to be able to park in those very limited spaces. [00:36:05] I talked to Brian about Cody River. [00:36:07] So that would be the idea that this is what we call curb management and it's a managed space. [00:36:12] And the idea is you put the signs up that says, you know, 30 or 60 minute parking for a meal. [00:36:17] Like if you're going to come for lunch, that's fine. [00:36:19] But you can't park here all day. [00:36:20] Yeah, even that I don't see you coming in to eat. [00:36:22] I think there is so much demand for the drop off, for the carry out, for the quick run in and out. [00:36:29] Door dash and everyone else, you know. [00:36:33] And then Debbie, I don't know if the CRA has reached the point where it's going to be factored in, [00:36:40] but I'm sure it will be a budget discussion. [00:36:42] But the freebie, when I was at Palmetto at their new thing, Palmetto joined up with Bradenton [00:36:50] and they do the freebie. [00:36:52] And so if you want to ride, you ride around town, you just get on the app and you get the lift to it. [00:36:58] And we've had that presentation. [00:37:00] I don't know if we've had it in the council chambers. [00:37:02] We have. [00:37:03] But that is, you know, what's happening. [00:37:08] And I hear it because I hang out with some of the old alumni who say that they can't even get into town. [00:37:17] And so that may be affecting our restaurants. [00:37:21] So we really need a way to deliver our close to town residents in the city. [00:37:26] And the problem, I heard the freebie presentation in Bradenton before they took it, [00:37:34] when I was doing some work over there. [00:37:36] And the CRA was only allowed to use it within the CRA boundaries. [00:37:40] But with our city, I mean, the whole city is the CRA. [00:37:45] So we really have the ability to, you know, fund that outside of the general fund and in the redevelopment. [00:37:54] And I think it's probably incredibly needed to put a damper on the locals [00:37:59] who aren't going to go park in the parking lot and wait for the trolley. [00:38:03] So if we can take those, all those parking and walkability issues. [00:38:09] I would just say that I can't see anybody parking there for long, personally. [00:38:16] You brought up the, just because it was brought up, the multi-use on the bicycle lane. [00:38:22] I know we talked about not having to go through the downtown. [00:38:26] So where is that transition going to be at Delaware? [00:38:28] Correct. [00:38:29] This right here is going to be what we would call share use. [00:38:32] The lanes will have a symbol with a bike in it. [00:38:35] And so if you want to ride a bike in there or whatever you have, [00:38:39] you're going to be using the same lane as vehicles. [00:38:42] And there will be a transition period over at Delaware. [00:38:45] And then if you remember, we're designing the multi-use path. [00:38:49] And that's going to take a right onto Delaware Avenue and go around the outside of the downtown. [00:38:55] Correct. [00:38:56] Can we position bike paths or bike racks into the downtown for people that want to stop? [00:39:04] Okay. [00:39:05] And visit the downtown area? [00:39:07] Yeah. [00:39:08] And that can be incorporated in the railroad square design? [00:39:11] It is. [00:39:12] Yes. [00:39:13] Pardon? [00:39:14] Mr. Hoffman, this was the discussion about the left-hand turn lane at Main and Grand. [00:39:20] And that's going to basically remain the same. [00:39:23] And as we go north, we already have some eating spaces on the restaurant next door, [00:39:27] but it still lends itself to, there's office on the left, some office on the right, [00:39:32] but that first building, I believe, is a pizza place. [00:39:35] Cigar bar. [00:39:36] There's a plaza space to the north of that building on the left. [00:39:42] You can see we have some bike racks and some tables and chairs with umbrellas and that sort of thing. [00:39:47] And that lends itself to be able to be flexible in this area. [00:39:50] And we did talk about repurposing the palm trees that you have downtown [00:39:54] and putting them down around Orange Lake and stuff and then kind of repurposing them. [00:40:02] I also learned in the hurricane, because I was at that conference, [00:40:05] that all in Annabury Island area, just before you get across there, [00:40:12] somebody built some resilient housing and was telling that the Royal Palms can handle wind up to 160 miles an hour. [00:40:23] So all of their other palms fell, but the Royal Palms did not. [00:40:28] Wow. [00:40:29] And so somehow or other, that was the lesson learned in the hurricane last year. [00:40:34] So not that we need Royal Palms, certainly not there, but I'm sharing that because you've said trees. [00:40:43] An old guy should have known that. [00:40:45] Been in Florida forever. [00:40:47] Just kidding. [00:40:48] There was, right by, he's got that picture right there where there's consideration there, too, [00:40:55] of it being more commercial retail on the west side of the road there because that candy shop. [00:41:04] And the others might switch to it. [00:41:06] Plus they have access on the back side. [00:41:10] They've got the access on the back side, which puts them into the infusion creamery [00:41:15] and back drafts that grows that all commercial. [00:41:20] Very, very nice. [00:41:23] Thank you. [00:41:26] You guys are on the show. [00:41:27] Anything else? [00:41:28] Thank you. [00:41:29] Happy to. [00:41:30] Any other questions? [00:41:31] Councilman Jonas has a comment. [00:41:33] So everything looks good to me from what I can see. [00:41:37] I do agree with them. [00:41:38] I think maybe if we can maybe alter those parking spaces at this end to maybe give a little bit more space, [00:41:46] make it a little more inviting for other retailers who might want to be in there. [00:41:52] But all in all, I think it's a really good-looking concept. [00:41:57] I was just in Rosemary Beach yesterday, and they did this there. [00:42:04] It is literally through their whole town. [00:42:06] It's 26 miles an hour and a tight two-lane little road. [00:42:11] There's nowhere to go except for their one little road. [00:42:15] But it forces you to slow down, and I think this will force people. [00:42:21] I mean, I don't think we need to put a speed bump in there. [00:42:23] I think as soon as you narrow it down, people are not going to speed. [00:42:27] Well, the speed problem is leaving town. [00:42:29] We'll get the chief involved in that, [00:42:31] and we'll make sure that he gets some guys over there and should be narrowing it, too. [00:42:37] So hopefully we can narrow it as well. [00:42:39] It's going to be narrowing as well with the multi-use path project that we're going to design. [00:42:42] Right, absolutely. [00:42:43] And that's going to be a main element. [00:42:45] It's going to start traffic calming and slowing things down. [00:42:48] I don't see that to be a problem. [00:42:49] The only thing that I want to make sure is where we transition into all these side streets. [00:42:54] How far back are we going to go? [00:42:56] Is our transition going to be clean? [00:42:58] Because I don't want it to be, you know, like take Missouri. [00:43:01] Once you get away from estuary, it's not the prettiest. [00:43:05] So, you know, how far back into these side streets are we going to go? [00:43:09] What would transition? [00:43:11] I think the way we've been looking at this right now is it's going to be phases. [00:43:17] And so when you look at Railroad Square Phase 1, [00:43:20] that would be on the east side of Grand Boulevard. [00:43:26] These are going to tie in. [00:43:29] And while we're designing, we'll also be getting ready to start the design [00:43:34] and construction of Phase 2 Railroad Square that would take us over on the west side. [00:43:39] And so some of the elements of the downtown area, I would assume, [00:43:44] would be done in phases and we would start working our way down [00:43:48] or whatever direction would be your all's priority. [00:43:50] Sounds to me like we're going to be working from circle south [00:43:55] and then as we work from the south to north the other direction [00:44:01] and kind of come together or are we going to start at the Delaware side [00:44:05] and work our way into Main Street? [00:44:08] That's a discussion that we haven't had yet because, again, [00:44:12] once we start moving forward and we start getting cost estimates [00:44:17] of all the elements of it, it may be something that when you all are doing [00:44:21] your CIP document that you say, you know what? [00:44:25] Our priority here is to do this in phases so that we'll have extra money [00:44:29] to do another project. [00:44:31] And that's entirely up to you all in how it conforms with your strategic plan. [00:44:35] If we're going to do Railroad Square, we should definitely do what's adjacent [00:44:39] to it at the same time if that's doable. [00:44:43] That makes sense. [00:44:45] If we're going to put the businesses, you found that out at the meeting at noon. [00:44:49] You found out the guy doesn't want interruption in his business. [00:44:53] So if we're interrupting him on Railroad Square, let's interrupt him on [00:45:00] grand as quickly as possible get it over with. Right. [00:45:03] And and go one step further than you [00:45:05] what you're asking at least way I took it might take it wrong [00:45:08] but you said [00:45:09] you know if you go east or west of grand on Missouri let's say. [00:45:14] It changes very quickly but I think [00:45:16] that if we're going to the east and we're going to end up with that [00:45:19] Red Cross building that'll change Missouri too. Right. [00:45:22] For sure. It's the whole look of Missouri and we'll be dressing that up too. [00:45:27] Just thought seeing the word [00:45:29] food truck and when you were looking at that last block. [00:45:34] I think it's nice to have those real short term spaces that are really needed [00:45:39] right in the core. [00:45:41] Because it looks like right across right before that. [00:45:46] Well the old Texaco station where you're showing in your little section [00:45:50] the coast of the lake that what to your point. Right. [00:45:53] Might as well crowd it in or make sure those spaces are also [00:45:58] short term and two spaces in a row could be a drop off. [00:46:02] It could be whatever but I think everything in that little one block range [00:46:07] if it can be short term. [00:46:10] We don't need somebody parking there to go to dinner. [00:46:13] We need that. [00:46:14] It's already got lights and traffic and stuff going on. [00:46:18] Drop off. Yeah. [00:46:20] I mean between all that. [00:46:22] 30 minute or less. [00:46:23] Park your boat trailer there. [00:46:29] Mayor one of the question about going south and getting out of town quicker [00:46:33] from north to south with the lane shift that that's a natural [00:46:38] cause you to slow down. [00:46:39] Also that not having that center lane the more pavement with you have [00:46:45] the faster you feel like you're going to go. [00:46:46] So us having this road diet for that whole length being just two lanes. [00:46:50] But usually it's usually Missouri is where they gas it and that's what [00:46:57] he's talking about. [00:46:58] Go back to the slide. [00:46:59] It shows a little better with the trend. [00:47:01] Yeah. [00:47:01] See how it's narrowed down to two then. [00:47:03] Yeah. [00:47:04] Yeah. [00:47:04] No I understand. [00:47:05] Yeah. [00:47:06] Once you get past Delaware. [00:47:07] Yeah it's a different story because you got a lot more pavement. [00:47:12] Comment where the slushy place is coming from highway 19 down main [00:47:19] cross grand. [00:47:20] You can make a left and go back in there. [00:47:23] But if you try to make a left you're either going to have a lot of cars [00:47:27] lining up making it hard for you to make a left. [00:47:29] Or you're going to wait and block people coming. [00:47:32] So what's the chance that we could repurpose that back road coming in [00:47:37] behind the restaurant building as a chance to have even some angle parking. [00:47:44] Or one way to come in and filter your way out. [00:47:47] Like a right turn only or something. [00:47:49] You see all of that retrofit partial construction commentary there. [00:47:54] That's where that little road comes and winds around. [00:47:59] I don't know if it's possible, but I had a little trouble. [00:48:02] Maybe you have an idea Robert. [00:48:05] Well you got access to the parking at Herschel's back there too. [00:48:09] Well you could have more parking is my point. [00:48:11] If you didn't have a two lane road behind there. [00:48:13] Correct. [00:48:14] That you could let people get in there and find a way to park. [00:48:18] I'm assuming once that apartment building goes in there [00:48:20] we're going to have more traffic. [00:48:22] The rest of that, yeah apartment goes in there. [00:48:24] I don't know how that's set up or not. [00:48:26] But they would have to go to Adams. [00:48:28] This is the only difference. [00:48:30] So if you want to encourage people to come through the light at Maine [00:48:34] and make a quick left with all that traffic on Main Street most of the time, [00:48:38] I don't see that being an effective way in. [00:48:42] You can just go to Adams and loop around and maybe [00:48:44] have another 10 or 15 parking spaces out of the way where people could park. [00:48:51] So parking is of a premium, that's all I'm saying. [00:48:55] And just a thought from my own experience [00:48:59] trying to turn in there at one point and realizing [00:49:01] I'm holding people up from getting down Maine because it's a thin road. [00:49:06] I would check with the arcade people too. [00:49:10] Access to the arcade, access to the back floors, [00:49:12] access to the apartments when Frank continues. [00:49:16] We can take a look at that and see how many cars. [00:49:20] We'll set some counters down, do a traffic study, [00:49:22] and we can do that in-house and see what's happening. [00:49:26] Yeah, that is a potential safety issue for me too. [00:49:29] Yeah. [00:49:36] Anything else? [00:49:39] 10 minutes.

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3. 3Adjournment▶ 49:43