On the agenda

1. 1Call to Order - Roll Call▶ 0:00
2. 2

   ↳You arrived here from a search for “50 percent rule (post-hurricane occupancy)” — transcript expanded below

   Residential Solid Waste Collections

   discussed

   Council held a work session on residential solid waste collections, discussing a proposal to put delinquent solid waste bills on the property tax roll versus alternatives like billing through the water utility. The Mayor expressed strong opposition to the tax roll approach, advocating for billing via water utility and accommodations for snowbirds. No formal decision was made; discussion was ongoing with staff (including Kelly Mothershead via Zoom) and public input.

   • direction:Council discussed but did not formally decide on the method (tax roll vs. water bill) for collecting delinquent residential solid waste fees; Mayor stated he would vote against the tax roll approach. (none)

   📍6634 Orange Blossom Trail, Newport Richey📍7017 Park Drive, Newport Richey🏢City of Dade City🏢InvoiceCloud🏢J.D. Parker🏢Tyler Technologies🏢WastePro👤Councilman Butler👤Crystal👤Dave Parker👤Jack Willman👤Kelly Mothershead👤Lisa Tinker👤Matt#$19.10 partial-month billing issue#50 percent rule (post-hurricane occupancy)#Residential Solid Waste Collections program#Tax roll assessment proposal#Vacation account provisions

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   [00:00:35] Welcome. [00:00:36] What do you want to talk to us about? [00:00:41] Actually, Kelly Mothershead is supposed to be here and connecting by Zoom, and I believe [00:00:47] the IT department is working on getting her connected. [00:00:59] The purpose of the meeting today is to talk about residential solid waste collections, [00:01:07] and in that respect, I want to talk a little bit about the history of the program, the [00:01:13] current status of the program, the purpose of our discussion this evening, and then a [00:01:20] recommendation that I have for you in regard to a problem that we are having with collections, [00:01:31] and in that regard, I have put together a PowerPoint presentation, and I will start [00:01:38] with the history of the program for the benefit. [00:01:43] Do you want to give IT a couple minutes to hook up with Kelly? [00:01:49] Just give your name and address for the record, please. [00:01:57] Lisa Tinker, 7017 Park Drive, New Port Richey, obviously. [00:02:02] I'm sorry. [00:02:03] Can you repeat that and go slower? [00:02:04] Sure. [00:02:05] Lisa Tinker, 7017 Park Drive. [00:02:16] You have three minutes to speak. [00:02:17] Okay. [00:02:18] I just have a statement, and perhaps you may want to look at your billing system, as we [00:02:24] do have three sitting members of council who are also delinquent on their trash bill. [00:02:30] I can't imagine that they purposely aren't paying it, so perhaps a lot of these people [00:02:34] who do have delinquent trash bills don't know they have them. [00:02:38] A lot of them are for the 1910, which I know is that initial bill, even I was a little [00:02:43] confused on. [00:02:44] It's like, what am I paying 1910 for? [00:02:45] I thought it was $60. [00:02:47] So I don't know if you want to, before you decide to throw it on everybody's property [00:02:52] taxes, because a lot of us pay our bills quarterly or monthly, maybe send out a notice, hey, [00:02:58] do you realize you're delinquent in your garbage collection? [00:03:01] Because like I said, there are three sitting members who are delinquent themselves. [00:03:05] And it's not an accusation to anybody. [00:03:07] It's just something isn't right in the way the billing is being done, because you wouldn't [00:03:13] obviously ignore your bills. [00:03:15] Thank you. [00:03:16] Mr. Mayor? [00:03:17] Yeah. [00:03:18] If you'll allow me to respond, there are not three members of council that are delinquent [00:03:23] in their payments on their trash bill. [00:03:27] And there is a... [00:03:29] Hey, just, you get your piece, just let her answer. [00:03:33] Just let her answer, please. [00:03:35] Just let her answer, please. [00:03:37] Go ahead. [00:03:38] And there is a problem with the software related to the 1910 that some people are showing as [00:03:49] a payment that is owed, which is being corrected through the software company. [00:03:56] But there are actually nine people that are listed as being delinquent because they signed [00:04:03] up for an automatic payment program. [00:04:07] But they elected for utility rather than for solid waste. [00:04:14] So they thought the payments were being made. [00:04:18] And they actually weren't being made. [00:04:21] And that explains why a couple of council people's names are on there. [00:04:28] And they shouldn't be. [00:04:30] But those corrections have been made since the list was generated. [00:04:34] Thank you. [00:04:36] Thank you. [00:04:59] My name is Jack Willman. [00:05:02] I live at 6634 Orange Blossom Trail, New Port Richey. [00:05:06] I'm sorry, can you repeat that? [00:05:08] 6634 Orange Blossom Trail. [00:05:15] My concern on this whole thing is this. [00:05:18] I reside in New Port Richey, for only four months of the year. [00:05:23] The other eight months I'm in Ohio. [00:05:26] When I was with J.D. Parker, which I was for many years, I would just give them a phone [00:05:31] call when I leave. [00:05:32] They would stop my service. [00:05:34] They would only bill me for the four months that I'm here. [00:05:37] When I get back, I call and they start the service. [00:05:40] Now, what we're doing here is this. [00:05:42] If this goes to the way I understand it, it goes to a tax bill, I'm going to be paying [00:05:47] for a whole 12 months. [00:05:50] It's roughly $20 a month. [00:05:53] So for the four months that I'm here, I've been in the habit of paying $80. [00:05:57] Now then, it looks like I'm going to start paying $240. [00:06:01] That just doesn't seem right. [00:06:03] And there's a lot of people, I'm sure, in the city of New Port Richey, that's in the [00:06:07] same predicament as me. [00:06:09] So I would like to take that under consideration. [00:06:12] Thank you. [00:06:19] Does anybody else like to speak? [00:06:28] No. [00:06:36] Just put it on hold. [00:06:37] It looks like they're working away over there. [00:06:42] I'm going to be gone at 5.30, so. [00:06:51] You want to go ahead and put something in there? [00:06:54] Sure. [00:06:55] Word gets around anyway, right? [00:06:59] Yeah, I think... [00:07:01] You don't talk till 5.30. [00:07:03] I won't. [00:07:04] I won't. [00:07:05] Believe me. [00:07:06] So just by happenstance, yesterday, the city of Dade City, who does use the water bill, [00:07:14] which I had expressed to you before, does it. [00:07:17] And I understand from talking to the gentleman on the way in that there are other places, [00:07:22] Manatee, Sarasota, that use the water bill. [00:07:25] So there are two. [00:07:26] So this strong endorsement of the reason to do it pretty well is underlined by what we [00:07:35] just heard from Jack, which is if, as a city, and as a city councilman, I'm trying to provide [00:07:41] a service and trying to tell people that this service is going to be for them, that it's [00:07:47] going to benefit them. [00:07:50] And I accept all of the benefits the city manager has mentioned with respect to the [00:07:56] multiple trucks on the same road, the need for everybody to do and pay garbage. [00:08:04] I just want to remind you that when this started, I was an assistant to the city manager, and [00:08:08] I was talking to the haulers, and one of the things that I was representing to them was [00:08:12] we wouldn't have had to wait a year if the haulers would have, among themselves, agreed [00:08:17] to divide up the city and have, you know, based on how much there are, 10 percent that [00:08:23] we've been already collecting. [00:08:25] So first things first, this is not a moneymaker for the city. [00:08:29] This was for the purpose of beautifying the city and making it a better and cleaner place. [00:08:34] And so there was the idea that we could have zones that kind of reflected their relative [00:08:41] percentage of business in our town. [00:08:44] And so it wasn't a one-person-wins-all. [00:08:47] There was objections to that for different reasons, but my point is this. [00:08:54] When I finished my house in March last year, it was not on the tax roll the following November. [00:09:04] So when I moved into my house, I got no bill at all from the city for eight months. [00:09:12] So as an accountant, I would ask, and I know we're in this rush to make a decision in the [00:09:18] next meeting and make this resolution, and I've seen some, you know, Facebook conversation. [00:09:24] I can't wait to pay this on my bill. [00:09:27] But I do want to think about the snowbirds. [00:09:30] I want to think about someone whose house was destroyed in a hurricane in the summer [00:09:34] who's not able to live in it, who's got the 50 percent rule, who's got to roll off so [00:09:40] they can try to, or who's taking, you know, who's unable to occupy the house. [00:09:45] So I brought with, so anyway, yesterday we raised the rate in Dade City to all of the [00:09:53] residents there, and admittedly it may be a low rate to the market because it's the [00:09:59] fourth year of a fifth-year contract that was signed using the CPI over time because [00:10:06] they were made agreement for five years that they would get the inflationary benefit of [00:10:12] that contract. [00:10:14] And that monthly fee is now just in the $15.30 a month rate, and the city there charges its [00:10:27] water bills monthly. [00:10:29] So different haulers, different values. [00:10:34] So if I'm a hauler and I'm going to make a recommendation to you, I'm going to say, [00:10:39] charge you every lot in the city for a full year and collect that money for me. [00:10:45] And not only that, collect it for me, and I'm going to collect it all because I can [00:10:50] get it on the tax roll and they'll pay it. [00:10:53] And if they don't pay it, someone will buy the tax certificate and they'll pay it. [00:10:58] And so I'm going to get my money. [00:11:00] So I'm in agreement they should be paid. [00:11:03] I'm ready to modify the contract to say, let's do this. [00:11:08] Let's have you look at the number of customers that we're serving based on the number of [00:11:15] houses that are functionally hooked up to water and sewer, and we'll pay you for every [00:11:21] house that you go to that has a garbage can in front of it. [00:11:24] Because what we have now is houses that don't have garbage cans for two-thirds of the year. [00:11:30] The hauler doesn't have to pick it up. [00:11:33] And so the two different systems work that way. [00:11:36] One, you're flexible. [00:11:38] Two, you put the bill on based on the year before how many houses. [00:11:42] So every house that we add, now Crystal can go online and find out from building things [00:11:50] when somebody's added, but she can't get it on the tax bill until November. [00:11:57] And we've got to start paying them. [00:12:00] And the tax bill is for everything that happens from September on. [00:12:03] So I'm asking us to look at the financial as an accountant and say, not only do we pay [00:12:10] a fee for the county to collect it, but we also have someone like Jack who may be able [00:12:17] to get his money back, at least partly, by paying it in November and getting a 4% discount. [00:12:22] So are we going to increase the tax so that we can get the average we think we need to [00:12:28] to pay the tax? [00:12:30] And so consequently, our city did what you have done, and our city here did what Dade [00:12:41] City does, and that they have the commercial, more complicated, need it now, later, how [00:12:48] big it can, they have that collected by the hauler, and they pay a 10% back. [00:12:55] So, I mean, if we went back to the old way, we could charge the 10%, we'd get all the [00:13:00] money, but we wouldn't get everybody to pay. [00:13:03] So, until somebody can give me what I've requested, which is, what are our losses from? [00:13:13] No, the link's not working. [00:13:16] I'm hitting it, it's not doing anything. [00:13:18] But I just tried to go to the website on my desktop computer, but the work session's not [00:13:25] listed on there. [00:13:27] So, anyway, bottom line, the ability for us to service our customers and tell them we're [00:13:46] doing this to help them works in a lot of ways. [00:13:51] So if I ask those four or five questions and have the time to get the answers, I'd just [00:13:56] like you to look at the amount of cash that it would take. [00:13:59] Now, one of the other arguments you used against the water bill on the monthly bills was that [00:14:05] everybody's in a different zone and they all start at a different time. [00:14:08] So you started this at point A, everybody got started in March. [00:14:14] You have the ability to sort of feather in that rate if you do it into the water bill. [00:14:21] And Dade City uses the same Tyler technologies, but they use a lesser level program in the [00:14:27] ENCODE system versus what you all use here. [00:14:31] And it's just a matter of spending a day with them to set it up. [00:14:35] So, in my view, it goes back to the user, and if the user is using it, then it's a service [00:14:43] and we should pay the vendor to do it. [00:14:48] But every user ought to do it, and every water that's connected, or even if it's disconnected [00:14:56] because they failed to pay, should still be charged. [00:15:00] You know, there's a way to do it, and we increased the deposit. They're monthly. With that fee, we just moved it to $20. [00:15:09] And if you're a homeowner, you get your deposit back, and if you're a renter, you don't. [00:15:13] But you've got deposits for your water and sewer. [00:15:16] So I said it before, I'll say it again, unless you show me the numbers for – [00:15:24] and this is lean towards the service to be provided to the residents and not to maximize the amount of money that the city can bill. [00:15:34] Because we turn around and we give that money back, and this is their process. [00:15:38] They had two problems – trouble collecting. [00:15:41] We can do better than they did because at least we're tracking it with our water bills. [00:15:46] And getting more volume, more business, and more efficient, which we can give them. [00:15:53] So when I saw the first document saying that this was the preferred method and that most people do it, it was unsigned. [00:16:02] I guess what you sent me yesterday maybe was signed by somebody at the company. [00:16:07] But I'd like the person who wrote it to sign it, and then I'm going to check and find out who's doing what, where. [00:16:13] Because I'm not sure that there's a strong propensity to put this on the tax bill. [00:16:23] And it affects escrows. [00:16:25] And all these late bills, you know, I think that we need to just try to collect them until that time. [00:16:36] Because there's no sense just waiting and then putting them on the tax bill. [00:16:39] You're going to have to continue to go after those bills and try to collect them. [00:16:43] And maybe if we shift methods, we can or can't change that assessment and put it on the water bill. [00:16:51] But this can be done the way I suggested. [00:16:55] And when I said this problem would be problematic, a former council member here said, [00:17:00] well, good, when that fails, we'll just put it on the tax roll. [00:17:03] And I've seen some pretty sort of off-the-cuff, that's where it belongs. [00:17:07] I don't believe it belongs there, so I'm going to continue to be that one vote against it. [00:17:11] And I do it. [00:17:13] So I just like ‑‑ [00:17:15] I'm going to give you a couple scenarios. [00:17:17] We have duplexes and triplexes in town, and the landlord goes ahead and puts a dumpster there. [00:17:26] And it doesn't charge the, you know, they don't charge the individuals. [00:17:31] But the individuals are getting water. [00:17:34] So how is that handled? [00:17:36] Well, we can identify those that live there. [00:17:38] The water bill recognizes whether they're in multifamily or single‑touch residence, all of that. [00:17:44] Okay, then somebody pays their water bill but doesn't pay their trash bill. [00:17:48] Let's say it's $20 for the trash bill, and they pay $40 for their water bill. [00:17:55] And they pay $40, but they don't pay the $20. [00:17:58] Well, I figure that once in a while snafu who believes that he knows that it's not, whatever your argument is. [00:18:04] I'm just asking. [00:18:05] But I'm just saying you set that loss, because everything has a loss. [00:18:09] Nothing's perfect. [00:18:10] But you set that loss up economically against how much money you lost from me had I not gone in and said, hey, I have a house. [00:18:18] I'm asking you how we handle this as a city, not you personally. [00:18:23] You know, I'm just saying, you know, how is that handled? [00:18:26] Each individual is going to go ahead and sign up for water, but they don't need to sign up for trash because their landlord is taking care of it. [00:18:32] And we put it on the tax bill next year and say, you don't want to pay it now, you can pay it later. [00:18:37] That's not what I'm asking. [00:18:38] I'm back to the situation with the dumpster. [00:18:41] You know, the person lives in this triplex. [00:18:44] There is no trash charge to them. [00:18:46] Their landlord picks it up. [00:18:48] That's fine. [00:18:49] Yeah, and how is that? [00:18:50] It's the way it's being done now. [00:18:52] Pardon me? [00:18:53] The company is picking up dumpsters. [00:18:55] We're not charging those properties. [00:18:57] I mean, there's individuals doing that, too. [00:18:59] I'm an example of that. [00:19:00] My landlord pays for my trash. [00:19:03] It's part of my rent. [00:19:05] Well, you know, you just got done telling me not to think about my own world. [00:19:09] I'm just telling you. [00:19:10] That's what I'm doing. [00:19:11] I'm just saying. [00:19:12] I'm giving another example of a duplex and triplex, you know. [00:19:15] But bottom line is, if he pays for it, then tell him it's on your bill now and ask him to drop your rent by 20 bucks, you know. [00:19:25] And if he doesn't want to do that, then that tells you something about your landlord. [00:19:32] Mr. Mayor, if I may, city staff, are we aware of commercial dumpsters on residential properties? [00:19:41] Is that a practice? [00:19:42] Triplexes. [00:19:43] Triplexes do. [00:19:44] Yeah. [00:19:45] Multifamily. [00:19:46] Multifamily. [00:19:47] Okay. [00:19:48] Just wanted to clarify that for the record. [00:19:49] Bottom line, nothing's easy. [00:19:51] I've pretty much said what I have to say, but I'm confident in my position. [00:19:56] And I bend it to the service to the residents and the ability to take their complaints. [00:20:02] One thing I will say, when we sent a wrong tax bill to the county, it's a bit of a rigmarole to write them, to ask them, to send, you know, to take it off the tax roll, [00:20:16] and then we get charged back, and it becomes a complicated bureaucracy where we can handle things in-house this way. [00:20:25] I just have a question for you guys. [00:20:28] If they are snowbirds in that sense, can we set that up in the beginning that they're paying whatever the number is, one-third, you know, paying $80 instead of $240, when we set them up? [00:20:44] Do we have that provision currently in our contract with the provider? [00:20:49] No. [00:20:51] No. [00:20:52] So what happens now with this snowbird that goes away, how does he know that he's not paying? [00:21:00] He turned this off himself? [00:21:02] I mean, you know. [00:21:04] We don't have any provisions to turn off service. [00:21:08] We have vacation accounts. [00:21:10] We have only for vacation. [00:21:12] Okay. [00:21:13] Is that what a snowbird would be doing then? [00:21:15] Currently, yes. [00:21:18] They can put the account on vacation and then turn it back on when they return to the property, but they're required to turn their water off as well. [00:21:26] And there's a fee associated with turn off and turn on as well. [00:21:30] Not too many accounts are on vacation because of the water provision. [00:21:36] Homes still need to irrigate their lawns when they're not present and also maintaining their pools. [00:21:44] A lot of times those that do live out of state for a good part of the year, the property will become occupied at some point by a family member or somebody else. [00:21:56] So they're technically not away for the full amount that they anticipated because the property is being occupied at some point. [00:22:02] The example that we had, it's a rare situation. [00:22:06] Case by case, yeah. [00:22:09] So if it was put on the tax reform, I think it's similar to what he's asking. [00:22:13] There's no way to prorate it or not do it for a whole year versus, you know, six months or something. [00:22:23] Are you going to stop them when they come back in town for five months? [00:22:27] There's not a provision now, but that's what we're here to discuss. [00:22:30] So I think to Matt's point, if we consider going the tax roll route, it sounds like the mayor maybe is just asking the question [00:22:38] or suggesting that there should be a carve out where if they're not here for four months, then that's the percentage they're not paying on their taxes. [00:22:45] We could effectuate a program. [00:22:50] It would be a small amount, 1%. [00:22:53] They would have to notify you and tell you this and give you dates and all that kind of thing. [00:22:59] Right. [00:23:04] Who knows what they're going to do? [00:23:05] I'm ready to ask questions. [00:23:06] Sure. [00:23:07] Okay. [00:23:08] First and foremost, I want to start off by thanking Dave Parker for giving me the opportunity to do a ride along [00:23:14] and learn more about J.D. Parker and the routes and for the city manager for facilitating that early on when I first joined. [00:23:22] We wish you attended the construction and demo special permits meeting where we approved that request, [00:23:30] but we're glad you're here now as well. [00:23:34] I wanted to start with just the presentation that was displayed. [00:23:38] There was a quote. [00:23:40] I'm going to quote here. [00:23:43] Let's start with this one. [00:23:44] Most favored course of action to put on the tax roll. [00:23:49] Where's the basis for that? [00:23:52] Mr. Mayor, can I interrupt for just a second? [00:23:54] Do we know if we have Kelly? [00:23:59] Can we hear her? [00:24:00] Kelly, can you let us know you're listening? [00:24:16] Sorry for interrupting. [00:24:17] I'm just trying to see if we can make. [00:24:25] In response to Councilman Butler's question, that was an excerpt taken from the communication from WastePro. [00:24:34] So is there most favored course of action to put on the tax roll? [00:24:39] Is that quantifiable or we're just saying that? [00:24:42] From WastePro. [00:24:43] From WastePro. [00:24:44] Okay. [00:24:45] Based on their experience, yes. [00:24:48] How is the city currently addressing delinquencies? [00:24:51] And regarding public comment, when it came to the amounts, there were 634 charges on accounts for $19.10 [00:25:02] and two charges for $0.01 and $10.54. [00:25:09] There were two charges as well. [00:25:10] Those were the only ones that I found also that I wanted to highlight. [00:25:14] But those are included in delinquencies. [00:25:17] So how are those currently being addressed? [00:25:21] These are reported on the next invoice. [00:25:25] Because we started the program in the middle of a quarter, so for March, and it was a partial month, [00:25:30] they were billed at $19.10. [00:25:32] And just to give you some information on that, when we went live with the program, [00:25:38] as you know, you can pay your bills through InvoiceCloud. [00:25:42] And those customers that elected that option, [00:25:46] they were not able to make the payment for the $19.10 that first month [00:25:51] because InvoiceCloud wasn't prepared, fully prepared, to upload those bills. [00:25:56] We were still in a testing mode. [00:25:58] Once we moved into the next quarter, which is just a few weeks later, [00:26:02] and we billed for the next quarter, coming through June, [00:26:06] they were able to upload those bills. [00:26:09] So if the individual or the property owner looks at the bill, the invoice itself, [00:26:14] it does show an outstanding balance, and they can pay that balance. [00:26:18] But if they elect to do electronic payment, auto pay, [00:26:23] InvoiceCloud only knows to pull an outstanding amount. [00:26:26] So that's why those $19.10s are still outstanding, [00:26:28] because InvoiceCloud doesn't know to pull it yet. [00:26:31] We are working with them to write another file. [00:26:35] We are working with them to allow those bills to be posted. [00:26:39] So they are due on each account. [00:26:41] It's not an error in billing. [00:26:43] They are actually due. [00:26:44] It's just a matter of getting those on InvoiceCloud. [00:26:46] The other option is pay by cash or check. [00:26:48] So right now those 634 people represent those likely who do not see that amount on InvoiceCloud? [00:26:57] They wouldn't see it if they are not looking at an invoice. [00:26:59] Okay. [00:27:00] So if they receive an electronic invoice and they may not look at it, [00:27:02] they just rely on the bank to take the funds each month or each quarter, [00:27:07] and they wouldn't see it. [00:27:08] And then to Councilman Altman's point about those that were impacted [00:27:11] by the hurricanes that recently occurred, [00:27:16] I'll just use myself as an example because someone raised during public comment. [00:27:19] Hey, can you hear me? [00:27:20] Yes, Kelly. [00:27:21] We can hear you. [00:27:22] All right. [00:27:23] You can hear me. [00:27:25] It was raised during public comment that three council members have delinquent accounts, [00:27:30] and I am one of them. [00:27:32] It's $118.56. [00:27:36] I have not been in that home or that address since September 27th, [00:27:40] and I have not received trash service since September 27th, [00:27:44] rightfully so because I haven't had trash service to receive. [00:27:47] So in my mind, that's $118.56 that I'm paying to the city for someone else [00:27:53] to receive a service that's almost like a trash tax, [00:27:56] and we're talking about putting it on the payroll to solidify that as a trash tax. [00:28:00] So for all those that were impacted by the hurricane, [00:28:03] how are they being carved out, highlighted, [00:28:07] or is it just a matter of they have to pay? [00:28:11] So can I say something real quick to you? [00:28:14] Please. [00:28:15] Can you all hear me? [00:28:16] Don't forget my question. [00:28:17] So I was on that list as well, and I signed up for auto pay in the very beginning, [00:28:23] and I've spoken to nine residents who also did the same, [00:28:26] and none of them knew they had invoices, [00:28:28] and I don't have any emails for Waterville invoices telling me that I have an outstanding invoice [00:28:35] and I had signed up for auto pay in the very beginning. [00:28:38] And nine of the residents that I spoke with did the same. [00:28:41] So I went in and paid the balance, [00:28:44] but obviously now I had to pay late charges and credit card fees, [00:28:48] which should never have happened. [00:28:50] That's also what Crystal was addressing, I think, [00:28:53] and I think they'll work with those people in that situation. [00:28:57] Well, I wasn't on, so I couldn't hear all of that. [00:28:59] They didn't get me on until 5. [00:29:01] Well, your amount, Mrs. Mother said, [00:29:03] your amount doesn't reflect $19.10 regardless, [00:29:06] so your amount should have shown on an invoice. [00:29:09] I'm not trying to get into the weeds on specific individual cases, [00:29:12] but on that theme. [00:29:14] No, but I'm just saying if it happened to nine people that I spoke to, [00:29:16] I'm sure it happened to more. [00:29:18] And to your point, if there are more, [00:29:21] we are rushing as Councilman Altman brought up [00:29:25] and how the person who used to sit in this chair before me tried to prophesize [00:29:30] that we would eventually have to put on the tax roll, [00:29:33] and it seems like we're rushing into that direction. [00:29:35] That was the recommendation tonight because WastePro said it's most favorable [00:29:38] without any sort of justification. [00:29:41] Let's try this. [00:29:43] Mr. Mayor, I'm getting to my point. [00:29:45] Yeah, let's try it. [00:29:46] You gave Councilman Altman plenty of time. [00:29:49] So my point in saying that, if I can re-get my train of thought, [00:29:55] is that have we tried an alternative way to reach out to the delinquents? [00:30:00] accounts before rushing into a tax bill, have we sent a letter, has J.D. Parker done something [00:30:06] on their end to reach out? [00:30:09] They're still collecting the service, so in my mind, if my trash is getting picked up [00:30:12] and I don't have an invoice to look at, I'm assuming that I'm caught up. [00:30:17] Correct, especially when you set up auto pay, you don't get an invoice, and I double checked [00:30:22] all my emails and there are no invoices, and I didn't get anything in the mail telling [00:30:25] me anything was delinquent. [00:30:26] So when that happens, you assume it's being paid. [00:30:29] I do get the text, like I get a text saying it's due, but some don't. [00:30:35] In Kelly's case, we were able to review her account once she realized that she had not [00:30:41] received payment or she received her bill. [00:30:44] Looking at her account, she enrolled on March 4th, 2024. [00:30:49] The initial billing was for March 2nd for the month, so she enrolled in electronic billing [00:30:56] through InvoiceCloud to receive her bills electronically, so that's why she hasn't received [00:31:00] any bills by mail, because they were always, she elected to receive them electronically [00:31:04] in March, and then she signed up an account to have it paid automatically, so an auto [00:31:11] deduction from her bank account, but when she signed up, she selected utility rather [00:31:16] than solid waste, but the solid waste feature wasn't there, so she had no option other than [00:31:21] to select, I want to pay my bill, utility, when invoiced. [00:31:27] I was already on auto pay for utilities, though. [00:31:30] So how did Mrs. Mothershead know that she had an overdue bill? [00:31:35] She was notified. [00:31:36] We do. [00:31:37] I do. [00:31:38] She was told directly. [00:31:39] So for the other 37 pages of people, how have we reached out to them to tell them they have [00:31:45] due bills, other than continuing the invoice on an account that they don't have access [00:31:50] to? [00:31:52] How we sent a letter. [00:31:53] We're rushing to put this on the tax bill. [00:31:56] That's the recommendation today. [00:31:57] Why isn't the recommendation, or one of the recommendations, send out a notice to residents? [00:32:01] Pay five grand in stamps to send out a notice. [00:32:05] Why is that not the conversation? [00:32:07] Why are we rushing to do what the person who... [00:32:08] We're not rushing to do anything. [00:32:10] We're rushing to get input from you and put you on notice that there's a problem. [00:32:13] Put you on notice that there's a problem, and it's severe. [00:32:16] We're talking about $152,691. [00:32:18] And it sounds like we have a severe invoice problem, too. [00:32:24] And we've also cross-checked a lot of the delinquencies to find that they're also delinquent [00:32:31] in water bills. [00:32:33] So it's a payment problem in general. [00:32:36] It's not just a solid waste problem. [00:32:39] What number of those that were delinquent with their water bill were also... [00:32:43] I don't have the exact number. [00:32:45] It was substantial? [00:32:46] What would you... [00:32:47] It was enough to recognize that a pattern exists. [00:32:51] I want to say also that the water bill is a monthly bill. [00:32:55] The trash bill is a quarterly bill. [00:32:58] And we have, what, 45% rentals in this town? [00:33:03] So there's people that are going to pack up and move out, and they're going to be delinquent, [00:33:07] and then they're going to be gone in another month or so. [00:33:09] And so they're never going to pay that bill. [00:33:12] So you're taking consideration that the trash is going to get picked up, and the people [00:33:16] don't care. [00:33:18] They're not living in the city anymore. [00:33:19] They sat and got their trash picked up for three or four months before it went delinquent. [00:33:24] And then the landlord is going to be like, and we're like, hey, who's paying this? [00:33:29] So what are you suggesting solves that problem? [00:33:31] I'm just bringing up situations. [00:33:33] I know the solution to that problem. [00:33:36] If a customer has a private agreement with a waste hauler, and they decide to end that [00:33:41] agreement and move, then problem solved. [00:33:45] The new situations that have been created is because this council, not the city. [00:33:51] How many residents are impacted by the single waste hauler program? [00:33:55] We have 4,860 active accounts. [00:33:59] 4,860 active accounts? [00:34:02] Residential accounts. [00:34:03] For residential. [00:34:04] Correct. [00:34:05] We as a council made a decision impacting 100% of waste users in our city. [00:34:12] Is that accurate? [00:34:13] Yeah. [00:34:14] Single family residential. [00:34:15] So the five people here made that decision, and now we're confused as to why all these [00:34:19] problems are popping up. [00:34:20] Well, there's a third of the people who aren't paying their bill. [00:34:22] I can understand some of them. [00:34:24] They don't care. [00:34:25] They're renting, and they'll just leave their bill and walk away. [00:34:29] And it could be four or five months. [00:34:31] I'm going to say two more things. [00:34:33] They're very brief. [00:34:35] I've said all my points. [00:34:36] My first one is my suggestion is not to go with the recommendation of city staff and [00:34:43] to look into a solution to informing the accounts of their delinquencies in a way other than [00:34:49] an invoice, whatever that looks like. [00:34:52] My second point, and this is a larger point, maybe a conversation for a different time. [00:34:56] That's why I'm saying at the end of what I have to say, is that I think this whole conversation [00:35:01] we're having right now is a byproduct of the fact that we did not put this on the ballot [00:35:05] for our residents to decide, and we rushed into it. [00:35:08] And we said during the PowerPoint that discussions took place over several months. [00:35:13] It was actually several years, but in my mind, it didn't really involve anyone other than [00:35:17] the people at this table and the person who sat here before me. [00:35:20] And so these problems exist because, in my mind, we rushed into it without giving the [00:35:26] residents a say. [00:35:31] Crystal, if you don't mind, before you talk about what you have to say, I'll make a proposal [00:35:36] which I would say would be worth talking to the haulers about, which is if you take the [00:35:41] track that you're suggesting, you're still going to have to try to collect because you're [00:35:46] going to want to know who's paid when the time comes, the last minute to put the assessments [00:35:50] on the tax bill finally. [00:35:53] But I would suggest that we offer them to consider moving to a monthly fee, putting [00:36:04] it on the bill, and they can collect the money more efficiently between now and next November, [00:36:14] December when that money comes in. [00:36:16] Because if you do the track you're proposing, no money is going to come in to pay them their [00:36:21] back pay. [00:36:22] That's nearly $200,000 until next November. [00:36:26] So if we think we need to get them paid, first of all, we could modify the contract to make [00:36:32] it based on customers that are using services in our city. [00:36:38] That still gets everybody who's using water. [00:36:41] And to those people, Debbie and Crystal, who are not, who are delinquent on their water [00:36:47] bills, we have provisions to turn off their water. [00:36:51] And that's what you do. [00:36:52] You turn off the water, you put a thing on the door and say, your water's going to be [00:36:59] turned off. [00:37:00] And you turn it off. [00:37:02] And if they don't pay, then it can become a health issue for them. [00:37:07] But that's how it's done. [00:37:09] That's why you have a deposit. [00:37:11] That's why you make sure they don't overrun their deposit so you do get your money. [00:37:16] And so I think we have a collection problem, to your point. [00:37:21] And when I brought this up before, I was reminded, we're talking about garbage, we're not talking [00:37:25] about water. [00:37:26] So now you bring water back into the picture, and I'm telling you, we have a collection [00:37:30] problem that can be solved. [00:37:33] You're never going to collect it all. [00:37:34] Chopper, you're right, people are going to run off and not get it. [00:37:38] And all I'm asking is to balance that between how much do we lose and write off, because [00:37:44] we will write off accounts, how much do we lose and write off on water, which we have [00:37:49] lien rights and everything else on, versus how much are we going to lose in terms of [00:37:54] payments to the county tax collector, losses in that regard, lost revenue from houses coming [00:38:00] on that aren't taxed like mine, and all for the benefit of more money going to the hauler [00:38:08] for lots that they don't have to pick up a garbage can. [00:38:12] So what we're really saying, it's like, how do you look at this? [00:38:16] And I think we look at it to make sure that our customers, our water customers, are paying [00:38:21] their bill, shutting them off, and if they choose to try to get funny about their garbage, [00:38:29] those are the ones I'd vote to put on the tax roll and say, we're collecting that, just [00:38:33] like we do our code enforcement and everything else, and we could collect it, because we're [00:38:37] allowed to do that. [00:38:38] You're saying shut off the trash service? [00:38:40] I'm saying turn off water. [00:38:42] If they don't pay their trash? [00:38:45] If they don't, no, turn off water if they don't pay their water bill, because we have [00:38:50] that a provision. [00:38:52] And then what if we turn off trash if they don't pay their trash too? [00:38:56] Well, every month you get a report of how many customers you have that are active. [00:39:01] That's a decision for us to talk about. [00:39:03] I'm kind of with Debbie that we should continue to be picking up, we shouldn't have to give [00:39:08] them a whole lot of, don't pick up this can, because one of their benefits is they're driving [00:39:13] down the streets, if they see a can, they pick it up. [00:39:16] So I don't care about that. [00:39:18] We continue to bill them for the trash. [00:39:21] But as far as water goes, if they don't pay their water, they should be turned off, period. [00:39:28] And we do that. [00:39:29] Yeah. [00:39:30] Let me know. [00:39:31] Let's concentrate back on the trash. [00:39:33] Keep it on the bill. [00:39:34] You keep the bill, tell you these are your scofflaws you're talking about, and put that [00:39:39] on the tax roll. [00:39:40] That's not going to be $200,000. [00:39:42] We'll find out what it is, but it might be, that $10,000, that $20,000 you're afraid to [00:39:47] lose, we don't have to lose it. [00:39:51] What you're proposing now for the ones who haven't paid their bill, we can always do [00:39:56] that. [00:39:57] So I get a $118 lien put on my house because I didn't receive a service? [00:40:05] That's what you're saying for the many people on here. [00:40:08] Now you will. [00:40:10] Once we switch it to the water bill, if you don't use water, you don't pay. [00:40:15] So to answer the question of the gentleman that's here, the folks that are snowbirds, [00:40:20] they only pay when they have water. [00:40:22] And if they want to shut it off, they pay a fee. [00:40:24] They pay a fee to turn it back on. [00:40:26] And we tell the hauler we only have $4,370, and they know the amount to pay. [00:40:34] But they always know to pick up every garbage can. [00:40:37] And it works. [00:40:39] My water is off. [00:40:40] It works. [00:40:41] So to address the hurricane point and if it's the direction of the rest of the council members, [00:40:46] if we do plan on at least doing some other form of notice to the delinquent accounts, [00:40:52] I'd like for the language on there to include something about this vacation, because I am [00:40:55] sure there are plenty of hurricane people recovering from the hurricane who don't have [00:41:01] water right now, who don't care if their trash is being picked up, because they're having [00:41:04] to get one of those big dumpsters anyways, or they've already done that. [00:41:08] And so they shouldn't be paying if they... [00:41:11] That's an individual situation. [00:41:12] And I think if you came to City Hall, and yeah, thank you, Pete. [00:41:17] You came and addressed your situation, they would modify your bill. [00:41:21] Some people don't even know they're in that situation. [00:41:22] I know because I sit up here and I have the list. [00:41:24] Well, you bring up a situation, I'm saying it's still available. [00:41:27] I'm one of 864 residents that were impacted by the hurricane. [00:41:32] And I think if you're talking about notifying them, then there's also a way that we can [00:41:37] notify them and say, hey, I know you're affected by the hurricane, maybe we can address and [00:41:42] work with you, but you've got to come see us. [00:41:46] So I mean, we're not black and white here, we're gray. [00:41:49] We're going to help these people. [00:41:51] They were in a hurricane. [00:41:52] We're going to help them. [00:41:54] We do have a form. [00:41:55] I would require council action and a modification to the contract. [00:41:59] Just to be clear, the tax rule, is it requiring a modification to the contract too, or no? [00:42:07] Because it's up to us how to determine how we pay. [00:42:10] No, it wouldn't require a modification to the contract, but we would... [00:42:18] Tim help me out. [00:42:19] No, I don't believe if you switch to the non-advalorum assessment method, we won't really have to [00:42:27] revise our contract. [00:42:28] There might be opportunities to consider some revisions that would make the contract dovetail [00:42:34] better with that billing system, but it wouldn't necessarily require any modification of their [00:42:40] contract. [00:42:41] And there's really two issues that we're trying to present here. [00:42:45] One is switching completely to a non-advalorum assessment going forward for all... [00:42:52] Why is that an issue? [00:42:53] I'm sorry? [00:42:54] Why is that the... [00:42:56] You're saying that's an issue. [00:42:58] There's two aspects to this. [00:42:59] I want to make sure that's clear to you. [00:43:01] One is that we're up against deadlines to proceed for this coming tax year on these [00:43:08] issues, and this is really a precursor to a meeting that has to take place before March [00:43:15] 1st if we are going to implement this system for this coming tax year. [00:43:20] You don't have to do that, but if you want to pursue that, this is what we're up against. [00:43:25] And there are two issues that you can proceed on. [00:43:28] One is to completely switch over to a non-advalorum assessment for all future billings for the [00:43:35] residential solid waste pickup. [00:43:38] The commercial would still be outside of that, and it's billed by the vendor. [00:43:41] The other, which can be either or or both, is to put on the tax bills delinquent assessments [00:43:51] that are not collected between now and August 31st. [00:43:56] So you would still have an opportunity to collect against those accounts and bring those [00:43:59] numbers down, but then any remaining assessments would be put on the tax bill, and you would [00:44:05] vote on those particular assessments in September during the budgeting time as to whether to [00:44:10] put those on. [00:44:12] So we need to get some feedback from you as to whether you're in favor of either one of [00:44:17] those options or both of those options. [00:44:20] Or neither. [00:44:21] Or neither. [00:44:22] Exactly. [00:44:23] And you don't have to decide this year. [00:44:27] You could come back in a subsequent year and change. [00:44:29] But for this coming tax year, this is your last chance to consider whether to put either [00:44:34] of these on, whether it's ongoing or whether it's just delinquent or it's both. [00:44:38] And we would do two separate assessments, to be clear. [00:44:41] The folks that are delinquent would get an assessment for that, and they would also get [00:44:45] an assessment for going forward. [00:44:47] And the people that don't have a delinquency would only get the assessment going forward. [00:44:51] I think that's, again, your decision as to whether you want to pursue either or both [00:44:55] of those methods. [00:44:56] Thank you. [00:45:00] Kelly, do you want to say anything? [00:45:03] No, I don't have anything else. [00:45:11] And let me also say, just to be clear, too, that this is just a work session. [00:45:15] So you're not being asked to vote tonight. [00:45:17] You would be asked to vote on February 27th at that special meeting on the resolution. [00:45:22] And, of course, you can change your position and vote however you feel at that moment. [00:45:26] But I just want to make it clear to you that we just need some direction as to whether we're going to go forward [00:45:31] and start the process, which requires advertising, [00:45:34] and it's going to require some expense if we're going to pursue either of these courses of action. [00:45:43] In the meantime, we will be sending out letters and notifying people of their delinquencies. [00:45:53] I think Councilman Peter had mentioned something with the water thing, [00:46:00] and I don't know if this is what he was implying, but this is what came to mind. [00:46:05] Well, for the hurricane ones that aren't at their home, this may not make sense, but the tags on doors, [00:46:11] you put a little red slip saying your service is going to be disconnected for water. [00:46:16] What about for those folks who are just like Mrs. Motherhead and the other nine that just didn't know? [00:46:24] If they come home to a tag on their door, they'll be motivated to want to call the utility department [00:46:32] and see why they got the tag. [00:46:34] We actually have order tags to put in place on properties so that people are noticed. [00:46:43] So thank you. [00:46:47] I think it's a tough one. [00:46:49] I think one of the problems is it's a quarterly bill, [00:46:53] and when you're talking about putting it on the water bill, it becomes a monthly bill. [00:46:58] So people address their water, they'll address their trash if it's together. [00:47:02] And then back to the same situation, though, [00:47:05] the owner of the property is going to make sure that his property is maintained and taken care of, [00:47:10] so he's going to pay the tax and stuff. [00:47:13] He's going to pay the trash hauler through the taxes, and then he'll adjust his rent with the person there. [00:47:21] And then you don't have people walking away. [00:47:23] They don't, hey, I'm going to be here three more months. [00:47:25] I'm going to be here four more months and just stop paying the bill. [00:47:28] Why are we not doing a monthly? [00:47:30] What was the rationale behind that? [00:47:32] Standard practice. [00:47:33] To do it quarterly? [00:47:34] Well, Dade City does monthly, so that's why I'm asking. [00:47:37] Well, that's because they're on the water bill. [00:47:39] Now we don't, there's no way to do that going forward? [00:47:45] Because we're talking about changing it to a tax statement, [00:47:48] so could the conversation be changing it to being with the water bill? [00:47:53] Is that an option? [00:47:55] Changing the solid waste? [00:47:58] To be with the water bill. [00:47:59] To be with the water bill. [00:48:00] We could do that. [00:48:01] That is a more appetizing option, in my opinion. [00:48:06] Personally, we're rushing up against deadlines. [00:48:08] I appreciate staff's promptness, but we're rushing up against deadlines [00:48:11] to make a substantial change that could put liens on people's homes, [00:48:14] and they didn't even vote for this. [00:48:16] So I think putting it on a monthly makes more sense, [00:48:19] and I think that was Mr. Altman's position, [00:48:21] but I don't want to speak for him. [00:48:23] In the meantime. [00:48:24] I don't know if they bill their owners [00:48:27] or if they allow renters to sign for service. [00:48:31] Who's that? [00:48:32] Dade City. [00:48:34] I don't want to – if I misspoke for Dade City, [00:48:36] whether it's standard practice or not, can it be done? [00:48:39] We could be the first ones in the world. [00:48:40] Is it possible to do it that way? [00:48:43] It is. [00:48:44] Okay. [00:48:45] What's the setback in doing that? [00:48:46] Some cities allow only owners to sign in for service. [00:48:50] Okay. [00:48:51] What's the setback? [00:48:52] What's the pros, the cons? [00:48:54] What do you guys recommend if we go monthly? [00:48:57] What are the good things and the bad things? [00:48:59] With our current billing system, [00:49:00] we allow both owners and renters to sign in for service. [00:49:04] And owners, we have the ability to collect. [00:49:10] Renters, it would go to a collection agency [00:49:13] in order to collect any bill that they've not paid. [00:49:16] Why are we judging the renters and not the owners? [00:49:18] You could just charge the owner on the water bill [00:49:20] and they can pass it through, [00:49:22] and that way you're not putting on someone's taxes. [00:49:24] I think some of the reason is a water bill is a flexible number [00:49:28] where trash is a fixed number. [00:49:30] So that's why landlords will pick up the trash. [00:49:32] It would be in our best interest [00:49:34] because of the transient nature of renters [00:49:40] to have the accounts of water bills [00:49:44] in the names of property owners as a rule. [00:49:51] I understand. [00:49:52] So it has to do with, thank you, that clarifies it. [00:49:55] Sometimes the bill for water is so low, [00:50:01] we quickly exceed in some of our charges to pursue the bill. [00:50:10] In our administrative fees, [00:50:13] we exceed the amount that we're trying to chase. [00:50:15] So what you're saying is, is that the same for trash right now? [00:50:19] Are we in an unsustainable model where it's charging us, [00:50:22] it's costing more to try to be the bearers of trash [00:50:27] than it would have been to just have trash continue to be a private industry? [00:50:32] The problem with the private industry was that most people didn't. [00:50:37] We had, what, 25% that didn't even sign up for trash pickup? [00:50:41] I don't remember the exact number. [00:50:42] It was a large number that didn't even have trash. [00:50:45] When we had five, some just didn't sign up with anybody. [00:50:49] We have 30% who are not paying their bills. [00:50:52] That's a larger number. [00:50:54] Well, I'm not saying that's an exact, [00:50:56] but I know it was a very large number. [00:50:59] And there was no real way of checking it because you had five individual. [00:51:02] That's why we have code enforcement. [00:51:04] We address illegal dumping, [00:51:06] people not properly disposing of their trash in ways that a city should. [00:51:10] In my opinion, I'm not going to derail this. [00:51:12] I'm just going to say one last thing on that, [00:51:14] is that, again, this seems like we're rushed to have this. [00:51:16] We need to have this conversation. [00:51:18] We need to make sure we meet the tax deadlines. [00:51:21] But this is, to me, we would not be sitting here right now [00:51:27] if we had five, six waste haulers still. [00:51:31] We would have 25% of people not having trash pickup. [00:51:34] And then we could come up with a plan with our chief of police, [00:51:37] and we could come up with a plan with our code enforcement [00:51:39] to address illegal dumping, as you should as a municipality. [00:51:42] And that would cost us $150,000 too. [00:51:45] It would probably far exceed the administrative cost for it. [00:51:49] Well, you pull the numbers, and we can talk about that. [00:51:52] Yeah. [00:51:54] I mean, to me, the water bill should go to whoever is the renter, [00:51:58] whoever is living in there, [00:52:00] and then the trash bill go to the owner of the property. [00:52:03] But how do you put that on one bill? [00:52:05] That's a little difficult. [00:52:07] If you put the water bill, the renter, and the trash with the renter, [00:52:12] they're not going to care about the trash. [00:52:14] They're going to run. [00:52:15] We'll never collect that. [00:52:16] And I agree with that, yeah. [00:52:17] So, you know, it's a tough one. [00:52:20] It's, you know, two different entities. [00:52:23] I mean, if there was a way to, like Mr. Jack, [00:52:28] with only living here for six months a year, [00:52:32] so on his tax roll he'd only pay six months of trash, [00:52:36] if there's a way to get that ahead of time, [00:52:39] that to me would make a good solution. [00:52:42] You see, that way those people can at least opt out for the time they're not here. [00:52:47] Well, that would be our, yeah, they would come, [00:52:50] and we would work that out with them. [00:52:52] Yeah. [00:52:53] And then, you know, everybody else would be on it. [00:52:55] It's a small percentage tax roll, and we don't have to worry about that. [00:52:59] Whether it's renter, you know, owner, the owner pays it. [00:53:02] He can do it through his rent. [00:53:04] Water, that's a little tougher to do, to get the renter to pay for, you know, water. [00:53:09] Through the rent, because it's variable. [00:53:12] It's, you know, up and down, up and down all the time. [00:53:14] So, I don't know, that would be my suggestion, [00:53:17] or some way for them to opt out of paying the full year of fees [00:53:23] if they're going to be out of town, and then, you know, [00:53:26] a little bit of honor system, and then if they were abusing it, [00:53:29] then we'd have to kind of, you know, look at that too. [00:53:34] And I just, I agree with the option. [00:53:36] Do you have anything else you'd like to add? [00:53:38] Robert, you're leading. [00:53:39] No, I mean, I agree we had to do something. [00:53:41] I think the notices are right. [00:53:43] I kind of like it being on the water bill, [00:53:45] but I'm going to kind of think about it and make a decision later. [00:53:51] I do like it on the water bill, [00:53:52] and I do like them having an option being able to opt out when they're only here part of the year. [00:53:56] I mean, we have still a lot of people who aren't even living in their homes yet. [00:54:02] That's true, but that's an individual situation, [00:54:05] and we don't have hurricanes that put that many people out of their places every year, [00:54:09] so that can be addressed. [00:54:11] Hopefully we don't have hurricanes every year. [00:54:13] We just need to make it known that they can contact the city [00:54:17] and make arrangements if they're not living in their homes. [00:54:20] Right, right. [00:54:21] That's a problem there. [00:54:22] Robert, you lean forward. [00:54:24] Do you want to say something? [00:54:26] No, I was just going to. [00:54:27] I was agreeing with Matt. [00:54:28] It is kind of hard when you have both of them on the same bill [00:54:31] because one fluctuates from month to month when you're billing [00:54:34] and one is a constant bill. [00:54:36] Years ago, we did speak to your question about why are we not doing the owner [00:54:42] when it comes to the water bill. [00:54:44] Council did direct the utility to bill the owner, and they were responsible. [00:54:49] The problem that they ran into and the reason why it switched over to the renters years ago [00:54:57] was because council was getting a lot of complaints, [00:54:59] and staff was bringing it to them, that the homeowners that were renting the property out, [00:55:07] if they had issues with the renter, if maybe the renter wasn't paying the bill [00:55:12] or they were late or they wanted to get them out, [00:55:15] they were coming into building and collections and shutting the accounts down. [00:55:20] And so then we had people that were renters that basically were in their homes [00:55:27] without that service. [00:55:30] And then because our renting percentages were so high, [00:55:35] you would have people leaving, coming and going, and that type of thing. [00:55:39] We have alleyways that are throughout the whole town, [00:55:42] and the alleys became the dumping ground. [00:55:45] And so in the end, whether or not you have code enforcement [00:55:48] and you're trying to hunt these renters down that have gone [00:55:52] and left their stuff out in the alleys, the city was still responsible to pick it up. [00:55:57] Mr. Rivera, was this pre- and please, staff, anyone, feel free to answer. [00:56:01] Is this pre- or post-the rental inspection? [00:56:05] It was pre-rental inspection. [00:56:07] So my mind goes to, I'm firmly based on what Matt has said [00:56:12] and what Mrs. Dunn and Mrs. Vance has said, [00:56:15] I'm not leaning towards doing the whole water and trash thing anymore. [00:56:20] But to that point, we have a way to account for who's renting now. [00:56:25] And so when that homeowner comes in, we pass an ordinance or something that says [00:56:28] if you're renting, you're not homesteaded, you don't get to turn off your trash. [00:56:33] But the owners who are leaving, they would be able to turn off their trash. [00:56:38] I'm saying just as a – and in my mind, that's helpful in that then if we do have an owner [00:56:44] who's fighting with one of their renters who's not homesteaded, [00:56:47] and they try to turn off their trash, that renter's going to come and complain. [00:56:50] And now we know that they're renting and they're homesteading at the same time. [00:56:53] But if they're snowbirds, they're not homesteaded even though they own their house. [00:56:58] Well, if they're homesteaded, it's different than the rental. [00:57:01] We have a rental and they have to sign up to say that they are renting, correct? [00:57:05] Not just that they are not homesteaded. [00:57:07] So we have a list of those properties that are being rented out, [00:57:10] which is different than the county's non-homesteaded properties. [00:57:14] Good point. [00:57:17] Just to, you know, since we're sitting here workshopping, that's where I would go with that. [00:57:25] Anybody else have any input? [00:57:29] Are you in agreement on the opt-out? I think I was hearing a – [00:57:31] I haven't made a decision. [00:57:33] Well, they need direction, so. [00:57:36] This is a work session. [00:57:38] Just like Matt said, he's going to think about it. [00:57:43] I just don't want them to come back with something completely different. [00:57:47] You're just taking it all in right now? [00:57:49] Okay, if there's nothing else, I'll adjourn the meeting. [00:57:51] Well, before you do that, Mr. Mayor, we need to know if we're pursuing a special meeting on February 27th. [00:57:58] And, again, you don't have to commit to approve anything at this point, [00:58:02] but we just need to know whether or not to proceed or not to proceed on that issue [00:58:08] because we have to place an advertisement this Friday in order to proceed. [00:58:12] And so if – [00:58:14] Advertisement for the meeting or the decisions of – [00:58:17] Okay, I still say let's have the meeting. [00:58:21] The meeting to put this on the tax rolls. [00:58:23] Well, the meeting to decide which way we're going to go. [00:58:27] Excuse me, the meeting to put the – [00:58:30] So we are trying to prove – [00:58:32] One way or the other, we're doing it. [00:58:34] Was this a workshop to talk about the future of the trash, [00:58:37] or was this a workshop to just talk about putting it on the tax rolls? [00:58:40] I feel like you're creating a question where the only option we have is to do tax rolls because of some deadline. [00:58:46] That's not what he said. [00:58:48] It's rushed. [00:58:49] That's insane. [00:58:50] We're making a decision to have a meeting. [00:58:52] At that meeting, we'll decide whether we're going to go the tax rolls or we're going to go some other way. [00:58:58] Mr. Mayor, they're going to propose something to us that we have to vote yes or no on, [00:59:02] but do they have a clear direction on what – [00:59:04] they're saying we have to do it before March 1st. [00:59:06] Well, if the direction is not to do it by the tax rolls, don't rush. [00:59:09] So we're saying that we want to vote up or down on tax rolls? [00:59:12] I think $150,000 is enough reason to rush, one way or the other. [00:59:16] You are saying up or down on tax rolls is what we'll be considering at the next meeting? [00:59:20] I mean, yeah, I would say go ahead, put the notice, and do that. [00:59:23] We can cancel the meeting. [00:59:25] We can vote no on it, but the option's there at least. [00:59:29] And then if we all get up there on that special meeting and we're like, no, we've got a good idea, okay, [00:59:35] then we all vote no and then we move on to the next option. [00:59:39] I agree with that. [00:59:40] I'm just making sure we're setting the agenda and the agenda wasn't set [00:59:43] and we're trying to agree to the agenda. [00:59:45] That's what we're talking about. [00:59:48] And to be clear, the only item that's time-sensitive is the placement of this on the tax rolls. [00:59:54] So all your other options for how to collect this money will be on the table continuously. [01:00:00] and you can make those decisions as well. [01:00:03] Can we hear from Ms. Motherhead as well? [01:00:05] Kelly, you want to say anything else? [01:00:09] So, I mean, I think that we should consider it being on the tax bill. [01:00:16] If we need to notice it. [01:00:18] Well, that will be the deciding date on the 27th. [01:00:25] Okay. [01:00:26] So, to be clear, I just want to make sure the record is clear, [01:00:29] that we are going to set a special meeting, it's a Thursday, just so you know, [01:00:33] on February 27th at 6 p.m. to consider two resolutions. [01:00:39] One resolution to proceed with a non-ad valorem assessment for all future billings [01:00:46] for residential solid waste collection and another [01:00:50] to pursue a non-ad valorem tax assessment for delinquent, currently delinquent, [01:00:57] those delinquent at that time, which will be in September or August of this year, [01:01:02] to pursue those through the non-ad valorem assessment. [01:01:05] And then you can vote up or down on either of those resolutions, however you feel at the moment. [01:01:11] But I just want to make sure that you understand that's what we're proceeding with. [01:01:15] Okay. [01:01:16] All right. [01:01:17] Yes, sir. [01:01:19] Adjournment.

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3. 3Adjournment