On the agenda

1. 1Call to Order - Roll Call▶ 0:00
2. 2

   ↳You arrived here from a search for “Bill Phillips” — transcript expanded below

   Solid Waste Pickup and Hauling Billing System

   discussed

   Council held a work session to discuss the billing method for the new single-hauler solid waste collection program set to launch March 2, 2024. Staff recommended issuing independent quarterly residential bills (and monthly commercial bills) rather than adding charges to water bills, citing complications with varied billing zones, bulk water meters, late-fee handling, and water shutoffs. Councilman Bill Phillips pushed back on staff's reasoning and advocated combining the charge with the water bill; no formal vote was taken, but the prior 4-1 direction toward independent billing stood, with staff to bring an ordinance February 6 and second reading February 20.

   • direction:Staff to draft ordinance reflecting independent billing approach with latitude for the city manager to address unanticipated circumstances, for first reading February 6 and second reading February 20. (none)

   🏢Main Street Landing🏢The Wilds👤Bill Phillips👤Councilman Altman👤Crystal👤Debbie Manns👤Heather Ferrentino👤Ms. Dunn👤Nancy👤Robert#First reading August 21, 2023#Illegal dumping ordinance (post-2014)#March 2, 2024 program launch#November 21 single hauler discussion#Prior 4-1 vote favoring independent billing#Second reading September 5, 2023#Snowbird billing concerns#Solid Waste Single Hauler Program#Solid waste collection direct billing implementation#Yard debris pickup day

   ▶ Jump to 0:32 in the video

   ▸Show transcriptHide transcript

   Auto-transcript · machine-generated, may contain errors

   [00:00:32] I'd like to do that Mr. Mayor. [00:00:35] It's at your direction really that we're meeting this evening to talk some more about the solid [00:00:43] waste collection pickup hauling billing system and this is a topic that we've really been [00:00:53] honing in on since August of 23 at which time we have conducted our first reading on modifying [00:01:02] the solid waste collection system. [00:01:04] I wanted to start by saying that as a staff we are prepared to execute on your decision [00:01:13] whatever it is. [00:01:16] What we'd like to talk about tonight though is the method by which we do that and there [00:01:26] are a couple of methods that we've really focused on in our discussions and as you know [00:01:37] from them the recommendation of the staff has been to send out an independent bill which [00:01:48] contains the fees for the waste pickup and hauling and we've based that on the fact that [00:01:59] we have said to you that we believe that that method contains the least number of complications [00:02:06] and we believe that that methodology as a result of that is in our best interest and [00:02:16] that of the people that it serves. [00:02:18] We've never really fully explained to you all that those few statements truly represents [00:02:29] and we're prepared to do that tonight so that you fully understand the complications that [00:02:35] are involved if we were to go with the other method which is commonly used in communities [00:02:41] and that is to put it on water bills which is an option that is available to us as well. [00:02:50] And before we get into some of those discussions I'd just like to review for you as Ms. Dunn [00:03:01] has in her communication to you where we've been on this and remind you that we have two [00:03:09] public hearings left before we solidify the decisions if we are to go forward with our [00:03:16] plan of action which is to effectuate the system on March 2nd of 2024. [00:03:24] We have held a first reading to discuss modifying the solid waste collection system on August [00:03:32] 21st and then conducted a second reading on September 5th of that solid waste collection [00:03:41] system ordinance. [00:03:44] And then we went on on November 21st to consider the solid waste single hauler program and [00:03:51] that was really more of an overview also and ordinance and then talked a little bit about [00:04:01] the solid waste collection direct billing implementation after that time and the consensus [00:04:09] of the group, not consensus, it was not a vote of all of you, it was actually a 4-1 [00:04:18] vote was to vote in favor of assigning the billing as an independent bill and we were [00:04:31] to issue residential bills on a quarterly basis, commercial bills on a monthly basis [00:04:41] and we were to assign all bills to property owners and in the case of the residential [00:04:53] property owners, the first bill would only be for one month. [00:04:57] After that time, we would convert to the quarterly bill system. [00:05:02] I think what's important to say and I'm going to allow Robert and Crystal to help me out [00:05:11] because they're much more versed in some of the detail than I am, is to help me talk about [00:05:18] some of the nuances to the system that make it difficult to administer the waste hauling [00:05:27] bills on the water bill and the first one is that we bill by area. [00:05:33] We do not bill every water customer at the same time because we have such a large number [00:05:41] of customers, we actually bill on a varied schedule. [00:05:46] So it becomes very difficult to coordinate the billing so that it's concurrent with the [00:05:54] waste hauling schedule. [00:05:58] Secondly, we have a good number of customers that are billed on bulk water meters. [00:06:09] So that might mean in many cases that there are several customers being serviced on one [00:06:19] meter. [00:06:21] So how do you know or how do you determine necessarily who is on the meter? [00:06:33] I guess we could probably figure that out. [00:06:35] It's just a little bit more complicated than it may necessarily need be and you can't put [00:06:44] it on the water bill. [00:06:45] You have to send them independent bills rather than be on the water bill because there's [00:06:51] only one water bill and there may be up to maybe 30 customers in some cases on a bulk [00:06:58] water meter. [00:07:01] The other complication relates to late fees, I would say. [00:07:07] We certainly couldn't turn off somebody's water because they're not paying for the [00:07:16] costs associated with their waste pickup and collection. [00:07:23] We certainly would want to turn off their water if they're not paying their water bill. [00:07:30] Our standard is once we get up to $75, we turn off your water. [00:07:37] It becomes a little bit of an accounting exercise when you have both fees on the same bill. [00:07:47] It also becomes difficult to compute things like late fees when you have to segregate [00:07:52] the two different amounts on the same fee. [00:07:55] It's not insurmountable at all. [00:07:58] We're capable of doing it. [00:07:59] It's just a complexity to the system that would cause our staff more time than the other [00:08:09] method only. [00:08:12] The last point I wanted to bring up was about not billing on... [00:08:25] I'm not remembering another point. [00:08:30] You can go ahead if you've got one. [00:08:32] We've got 46% rentals. [00:08:34] I've been a renter in this town in two different places. [00:08:38] I rented and if I wanted to pick up trash, I went down to the city. [00:08:50] Now, I'm in a different place and I give water to the city hall, but the trash is being handled [00:09:00] by my landlord. [00:09:03] It's going to make it real confusing. [00:09:05] I think, are we billing the individual? [00:09:14] I think the landlord can go ahead and earn a separate bill instead of, here's your bill [00:09:21] for your particular residence and then you pay the landlord. [00:09:27] Or the landlord goes and pays it at that point. [00:09:30] If the water bill is hooked with it and stuff, I see the... [00:09:36] Get a water bill. [00:09:38] He's just going to get the trash. [00:09:48] I see it sort of both ways. [00:09:50] It makes sense to keep it separate. [00:09:52] Without a doubt, it makes sense. [00:09:54] I agree. [00:09:56] It makes sense to keep it separate. [00:09:59] I don't understand, but if the purpose of this work session is for us to discuss it, [00:10:05] why don't you continue with your analysis? [00:10:09] Because I'm holding back my comments, but there are a million different nuances. [00:10:15] Bulk water, being at Main Street Landing or the way that Wiles does it, the way a condominium [00:10:21] does it, the way everyone else does it. [00:10:25] It's complicated no matter what you say. [00:10:28] I'm curious to see how easy it's going to be for you to implement this and how efficient [00:10:34] and effective it's going to be. [00:10:36] It's not going to be easy. [00:10:38] I don't mean to represent that it is. [00:10:40] Either way. [00:10:42] You've got three people already. [00:10:44] If everyone's made their mind up, it doesn't really make sense for us to be talking. [00:10:48] This is what makes it difficult for me to have a conversation. [00:10:53] I see agreements that it's complicated when it isn't. [00:10:57] I mean, as example, you just said something about you can't shut the garbage off. [00:11:03] But I don't understand if somebody has a water bill and they don't pay their water, if you [00:11:09] turn off their water and the bill is consistent with that, it doesn't matter if the bill is [00:11:15] for September or March or whatever. [00:11:17] When you do your audit, you've got to look at your water bill and you've got a whole [00:11:21] bunch of customers with different processes and you have to go calculate all your approvals. [00:11:25] That's a process that's being done on one bill. [00:11:29] So if that bill contains two things, if they're a deposit, why wouldn't you just say, okay, [00:11:37] we're going to tell the hauler that we have shut somebody's, here's the list of customers [00:11:45] that you're serving this month. [00:11:47] So I'm sorry, I got after you guys for talking and now I'm jumping in. [00:11:53] But if this is just a round robin for everyone to agree with every point without having a [00:11:59] chance to discuss it, then it's really a waste of time. [00:12:03] No, I really believe that the work session was called so that you could have discussion [00:12:11] amongst yourselves. [00:12:13] And I really only had one more comment and then I really want to leave it up to you to [00:12:17] have your discussion. [00:12:19] As much as in the structuring of this program, the staff tried to standardize. [00:12:27] As much as we could anticipate about the program, we know, as Councilman Altman is indicating, [00:12:35] there are going to be nuances that we weren't able to anticipate. [00:12:39] The only suggestion that I'm making is something that I had discussion with the attorney with [00:12:49] earlier today and I'd like it to be reflected in the ordinance that we present to you, I [00:12:57] believe February 6th, and then we'll have a second reading on February 20th, and that [00:13:03] incorporate an acknowledgement that we are going to have some opportunity if we encounter [00:13:17] an experience that's not already specifically addressed in the ordinance that you'll give [00:13:25] the administration, perhaps the city manager specifically, some latitude to address the [00:13:33] circumstance specifically in the best interest of the city and if there's some type of a [00:13:39] pattern that's identified that will then amend the ordinance to reflect whatever situation it is [00:13:47] that we find that we did not take note of when we originally drafted the ordinance. [00:13:53] I agree with that because I think that office type stuff should be charged the same commercial rate [00:14:15] that can't be social or something. [00:14:19] And in response to that, we did already think of that and there is a non-residential rate for [00:14:25] commercial businesses that don't use dumpsters. [00:14:41] I think one of the big questions too is going to be like the condos and the apartments that [00:14:45] currently have a dumpster, it's part of their HOA fee, they pay an HOA fee, they use a dumpster or [00:14:51] they have it picked up at their door, however they do it at their complexes and how that fee is [00:14:57] going to increase for them. [00:15:00] The way we have it structured now, correct me if I misspeak, Crystal. [00:15:07] If you have curbside pickup, you are a residential customer and you're treated like one. [00:15:13] If you have a dumpster, you are a commercial customer [00:15:17] and your homeowner's association pays the bill associated with that service. [00:15:23] You use a dumpster, you are a commercial, you just probably have a smaller dumpster [00:15:41] and it's probably picked up less frequently so it's a lower charge. [00:15:49] They're able to stay the same. [00:15:50] And they're able to still have the dumpster to still do what they're doing. [00:16:01] It's going that way now anyway, however it's going now anyway, who's paying for the dumpster [00:16:06] is still going to continue to pay for the dumpster, right? [00:16:13] Oh, that 401 vote, remember, you guys know about that, right? [00:16:22] Mm-hmm. [00:16:23] 401, yeah. [00:16:24] You want to guess? [00:16:25] Hey. [00:16:26] One guess. [00:16:27] You know, this just shows me how we stubbed our toes and didn't put this on another commonly [00:16:53] I'd rather, and based on that, I still think that is a part of the way, you know, you think [00:17:13] about it, people say, well, they want to pay it monthly, well, or quarterly or they don't [00:17:20] want to pay it at one time. [00:17:29] It's on a monthly basis anyway, it makes it easy. [00:17:36] Frankly, we missed the boat not following through with that plan of action. [00:17:43] So, you know, my question would be, if there was to take action at a later date, next year, [00:17:53] and we decide to make our mind up to do that, next year or the year after, whatever, any [00:18:02] reason why either one of these systems, one or the other? [00:18:10] Well, Nancy, you're absolutely correct. [00:18:12] The easiest thing is the fact rule. [00:18:14] But we're all talking about what's easy and what works for the city. [00:18:18] And so my comment from hearing from the public, and we heard from them, I mean, we heard from [00:18:24] them loud and clear, has two things. [00:18:27] Two, what was in the plan, which included a yard debris day, if I'm not mistaken, that [00:18:35] somehow this contract includes a particular day to put your yard debris in a can, if [00:18:41] that's still the case. [00:18:43] We haven't had a whole lot of talk about the details of the service, so let me just talk [00:18:48] about the service for a second and say that if you put it on the tax roll, you're billing [00:18:55] everybody the full year. [00:18:57] So the first parties that are yet going to be complaining are the snowbirds, who are [00:19:01] used to being able to turn off their water and go up north and not have to have any expenses. [00:19:06] So you're saying, okay, we're going to engage the hauler to take every piece, every garbage [00:19:15] can and empty it. [00:19:17] And if I'm not mistaken, the haulers have had the same policies that we've had as a [00:19:22] city with respect to water, which is if you go on vacation, there's still an accessory [00:19:28] charge, but there's no charge for shutting off your water. [00:19:35] Sometimes it works, sometimes it's worth it. [00:19:37] But the bottom line is, if our job as council members is to provide the best service to [00:19:44] the residents, the residents were told this is going to make your service better and also [00:19:51] it's going to collect garbage from everybody who's not doing it. [00:19:54] And I agreed with that. [00:19:56] I'm not trying to be ornery about the idea that we're all in agreement that everyone [00:20:00] should have to pay their share to take their garbage out. [00:20:04] But there are all of these nuances that have propped up, whether it be the folks in the [00:20:10] wilds who took it off of their homeowner's fee, which is the way it was, and put it. [00:20:18] And so now they haven't assessed the residents for it, and now they don't know what they're [00:20:23] going to do from one of the women who came and spoke. [00:20:26] Or Heather Ferrentino, who's in a condo, or the Main Street Landing that has a dumpster. [00:20:31] But the condos have the dumpsters, so they would continue with the commercial dumpster. [00:20:34] It doesn't really change for them, right? [00:20:36] Correct. [00:20:37] Yeah. [00:20:38] So if they are condos and dumpsters, and all we're talking about is residential, the condos [00:20:45] and dumpsters are either owned by an HOA that bills it, or they're owned by the company [00:20:51] that runs the landing or somewhere else. [00:20:55] So then it goes to commercial. [00:20:56] You've got an answer for that if they have a garbage. [00:20:59] But somehow or other, you've discussed that because the water bill might have a mass meter, [00:21:07] that that makes your world harder. [00:21:09] And I'm not sure, but I know there's a mass meter to the Main Street Landing. [00:21:13] I suspect there's mass meters to a lot of these others. [00:21:15] So I think that there is a kinship between who has a garbage can in a home, or a single [00:21:22] residence or a home, and someone who has a dumpster, with the exception that someone [00:21:28] who has a triplex, to your point, where you pay your water bill, is owned by someone who [00:21:38] you rent from. [00:21:40] So what we're really getting to is this concept that the reason, and it's been given as a [00:21:45] reason you're doing this, is because you don't want to lose the money, because you don't [00:21:49] know how to shut off the garbage. [00:21:53] Or you could do it, but it creates a whole lot of extra staff time, is your argument. [00:21:58] So I have asked for you to quantify the amount of money that you're going to spend in staff [00:22:04] time and postage and billing and collections of a whole different set of people, and how [00:22:12] in your presentation you focused on tweaking the water bill in a way that I just don't [00:22:20] understand why the turning off of water and the turning off of garbage can't happen together. [00:22:31] Because you're after having your bill come even at the end of September, so there's no [00:22:39] rule issue. [00:22:42] So having multiple customers for water works for water. [00:22:46] So why wouldn't it work for garbage? [00:22:50] Yeah. [00:22:54] You said we bill by zones. [00:22:57] It doesn't need, why would it line up? [00:22:59] So you wouldn't, because you would never have the same bill the first week of the month, [00:23:03] correct? [00:23:04] It would always be prorated based on the number of days in the billing cycle, for one. [00:23:07] Oh, you can put an actual cost in, just like you put a cost in for your fee for your monthly [00:23:16] fee. [00:23:17] So you don't have to bill it on some kind of days. [00:23:19] You bill it on the monthly bill, just like you bill your monthly charge. [00:23:23] Yeah, and so there's nothing complicated about that. [00:23:26] It's the same price all year. [00:23:28] Nothing changes. [00:23:30] So it doesn't have anything to do with the cycling of the days. [00:23:33] It has to do with the monthly bill or the quarterly bill. [00:23:37] So you could do it monthly. [00:23:39] So I'm just trying to say the arguments you're making don't make sense to me, not because [00:23:43] I'm not trying to argue, just because I'm doing it. [00:23:47] And it's like it's, and I look at that bill and I see the garbage on there in the water [00:23:52] and I see one person at the line collecting it. [00:23:55] So the real question then becomes 60% renters, they're not paying maybe all, we're losing [00:24:00] money, but you haven't told me how much the postage is going to cost, how much phone time [00:24:06] there is for letters, how are we going to tell people sending them that second letter, [00:24:12] do we have a whole system that we're requiring for billing, this whole different set of named [00:24:18] people? [00:24:19] I think that's going to be, that's going to happen. [00:24:23] Oh. [00:24:25] Excuse me, let me finish. [00:24:27] There's going to be, you know, employee time, no matter what, you know, and the person can [00:24:32] come in and pay their water bill and not pay their, you know. [00:24:35] They can't. [00:24:37] What do you mean you can't? [00:24:39] They can't, they'll be behind and if they get so far behind, if you say, okay, well [00:24:43] no more garbage, but, you know, you're going to take their garbage out anyway. [00:24:47] They're a renter and they don't care. [00:24:49] As long as they have water. [00:24:51] Well, I think that's unfair to say about rentals. [00:24:54] But what if they don't? [00:24:56] I'll give you my example, where my, it's part of my rent, it's my trash pickup. [00:25:01] My water is in my name, my trash product. [00:25:05] So whatever they worked out with the vendor. [00:25:08] Oh, there's the gentleman in the back that are going to get the money for doing the service, [00:25:12] first of all. [00:25:13] We're just talking about a 10% charge. [00:25:15] We're talking about being the collectors to make sure everybody pays and everybody does [00:25:20] their work. [00:25:21] So if somebody doesn't pay their garbage bill chopper, we don't lose the money because we [00:25:27] send, as we do in Dade City, we send a list every month of the number of customers and [00:25:34] that's how they pay. [00:25:36] You don't think they go through this when they're not having someone else collect for [00:25:40] them? [00:25:41] How do they deal with it? [00:25:43] And why, how do they, they don't chase people down, they ride it off. [00:25:49] So my question is, how much of that, how many of these scoundrels and malcontents do we [00:25:55] have in town that we think they're going to take advantage of? [00:25:58] It's like having a festival and not, and think. [00:26:07] That's not the question. [00:26:08] We had several without registered accounts, but they may have been taking things off site. [00:26:13] We don't know how they were handling the removal. [00:26:19] We, it wasn't, no, we actually instituted the ordinance sometime after 2014. [00:26:30] Now, we actually instituted an ordinance, but we did start with that ordinance because [00:26:42] we had a good amount of illegal dumping in the community. [00:26:48] That's what prompted us to suggest in an ordinance form that we needed to assign the [00:26:56] responsibility to every property owner in the city of having some form of removal service [00:27:03] for waste. [00:27:04] Well, that's not my question. [00:27:08] I mean, that's not the point at all. [00:27:10] The point at all is I'm asking how many people don't pay their water bill, and are you [00:27:17] suggesting that a lot of people are going to learn, if I don't pay my water bill, if I pay my [00:27:23] water bill and I don't, and I have a late fee, and we can have late fees, at some point people [00:27:33] pay the water bill. [00:27:34] I mean, I haven't seen a single incident of this circumstance that you're suggesting is going to [00:27:39] happen happening. [00:27:40] So if they don't pay their garbage bill and they decide they're going to bring the lawyers in and [00:27:47] say, hey, you can't shut off my water, and you say, okay, well, you're not going to have [00:27:53] garbage, and we have an ordinance that says you have to garbage, and we could take them off the [00:27:57] process and go after them as renters or whatever. [00:28:01] But it's a minimal argument. [00:28:04] You're using an argument that's not going to happen. [00:28:08] My question remains. [00:28:09] How many people are not paying their water bill and getting off and away from us? [00:28:14] How much water bills do we write off every year because the renters run, or do we go back to [00:28:20] the owners and say, Mr. Owner, you know, your renter is a scroflaw. [00:28:24] He's not paying. [00:28:26] And that's something we've talked about wanting to do, is to say, if you're an owner, you're [00:28:31] responsible for the water. [00:28:32] If you want to allocate that, I mean, people have to bring their leases in to our city to show [00:28:38] that they have a lease in order to get water in their name. [00:28:42] And that owner has to, if that owner authorizes that person to get it, then they get it with [00:28:48] their water and their garbage. [00:28:52] So these are administrative ways that you don't have to have a second bill, and you can send it [00:28:58] out with every bill regularly, and you can tag that bill, that actual cost that everybody's [00:29:03] incurring the same, onto the water bill, and you're done. [00:29:07] So you're creating a whole other collection system, and I don't know what. [00:29:11] You've told me that happens everywhere else. [00:29:14] You make comments. [00:29:15] Your comment is based on tax bill versus water bill. [00:29:19] I don't know how many communities have decided they're going to depart from the way they [00:29:23] collect water and have a whole different way to collect sanitary garbage collection. [00:29:31] I think it's going to be a monstrosity for you to try to manage. [00:29:35] So, yeah, and it may well fail, and it can come back, and someone can decide to move it [00:29:40] to another form of collection. [00:29:43] But I don't follow this logic. [00:29:49] Number one, two, to your point, Robert, there's no issue related to having it be collected [00:29:58] on seven days. [00:30:00] different zones the person's responsible for their garbage they pay it when they [00:30:05] pay their water bill done deal the zones have nothing to do it so that's that [00:30:11] argument doesn't hold anyone next argument is how much is it going to cost [00:30:17] and you say doesn't matter they'll be managed they'll be operated what was [00:30:21] used as an argument against this we brought we brought up a couple things [00:30:27] it's my particular situation you haven't addressed my situation and you're saying [00:30:31] it's a monthly bill just listen we're asked we're saying that as a [00:30:37] residential it's going to be once every three months [00:30:42] so if you're going to add the water bill the trash that means you're dealing [00:30:45] with both correct it should be every month so now you're now you're saying [00:30:51] you're sitting saying what's going to cost what's going to call you just added [00:30:55] you know two times the trash pickup it's a paperwork deal it's a working [00:31:00] deal it isn't it's not a paperwork okay you know more than I do I'm in my I'm in [00:31:06] that business you know I'm not going to try to put a tent up okay you're right [00:31:10] you're right I'm not going to fight you you are I disagree with you but how can [00:31:13] you disagree because I have the right to disagree well why don't you don't want [00:31:18] to pay the garbage monthly you'd rather pay it once every three don't have to [00:31:22] pay it my landlord he'll charge you for it though right oh that's my that's my [00:31:28] eat it he's gonna eat it or am I he ought to what's been going on for the [00:31:32] last X amount of years I've been living where I have lived it's part of my [00:31:35] rent I don't know it's costing you more money this way in my rent from day one [00:31:49] when I moved in X amount of years ago well that's the opposite of the guy who [00:31:54] came in who said I got it in my contract and now I can't charge him for it you're [00:31:58] on the other side of the coin now you're saying okay well sir it was in my rent [00:32:03] to do the garbage now I'm having to pay for it I'm gonna give you $28 every month [00:32:08] that's your answer because then you know your place is being taken care of so [00:32:12] people will put the trash because it's free you have a water bill in your name [00:32:17] and then your garbage that's what I said twice landlord so how do we how do we [00:32:21] do on that we send in the same bill to two different people whoever gets the [00:32:25] bill can get the garbage assessment if you put it on the same bill yeah whoever's [00:32:30] getting a bill you figure out how many garbages they're supposed to have and [00:32:33] what kind of service and that's the bill for that particular water everyone uses [00:32:37] water are you suggesting to build a water to the property owner to rather [00:32:45] than just the trash you may know whoever's guilt for it now this is going [00:32:49] to pay for the garbage whoever pays for it now can pay for the garbage now if [00:32:54] that owner wants to keep paying for the garbage then he can continue to collect [00:32:59] the rent for it and someone can say okay does you get your own water bill though [00:33:05] right because that's a variable trash it's not a very so that so to Debbie's [00:33:11] point there are variables on every process but to my point it's unfair to [00:33:17] just continue to argue for this without recognizing the other side of the coin [00:33:20] didn't recognize my site I do I do now so well one thing I didn't understand [00:33:28] Mike yeah so since we can't do it my way now what what I look at it now is what [00:33:36] effect is it is on the majority of our residents residents are paying trash [00:33:44] bills separately on a quarterly basis I think it creates less disruption less [00:33:50] confusion among them to continue to get a bill for the trash and like to have [00:33:59] you know I really think from that perspective it'll be less disruptive [00:34:12] the majority of our residents and I know that you know we've had some people talk [00:34:20] about we've had some landlords we've had landlords speak both both both sides on [00:34:25] it right so they're glad it's that way and they're taking care of it and [00:34:28] others said well no I didn't build it in my lease well they'll get to and [00:34:32] that's that's part of business but so I still think that you know [00:34:47] it's going to cause less disruption overall for our residents and it's just [00:34:54] a way of we achieving what the main goal was and the main goals was to was [00:35:01] reduce all the traffic and noise basically better service less wear and [00:35:07] tear on our streets and don't forget you know we sidestepped the 5% rate [00:35:12] increase that would have occurred this year and so you know so we that's the [00:35:21] major advantage of doing it and you know I think it's I personally like to have [00:35:29] it separate bills you know they're paying for it and it's what they what [00:35:34] what we've always done but I question you on that when you said if 60% of the [00:35:44] people are renters 45% of the people are renters and those renters many of [00:35:51] them a lot of many of these comp I don't know if we have the breakdown how many [00:35:56] owners are paying for the water and how many renters coming in with leases but [00:36:00] to the degree we have rental I don't know how they're identified in the [00:36:05] system but if those people might are paying water and they are also having a [00:36:13] garbage bill because they're used to paying it quarterly that's your point [00:36:18] and now we're going to go to a quarterly bill we're not billing them anymore now [00:36:24] we're billing the property owner so it's a it's a big difference it's not like [00:36:29] you're keeping it the same and if people are owners and they pay quarterly and we [00:36:37] shift them to monthly they have one bill and it's in their monthly not that they [00:36:43] have to pay and so it's really no inconvenience to them so I think the [00:36:51] inconvenience of someone paying monthly instead of quarterly versus someone who [00:36:56] was paying and now doesn't pay anymore who now relies on the owner to pay and [00:37:02] if the owner doesn't pay do we shut off the election to the renter you got to [00:37:10] think of this from all angles and you're going to hear about it so if you [00:37:15] want to do it the most normal way put it on the water bill you don't give a whole [00:37:22] huge job to crystal that's my point is she's not complaining you all think this [00:37:27] is the best way to do it you're going to find out that the phones are going to [00:37:32] ring even more that the return mail that comes in on those bills has to be [00:37:38] processed you have to go to some theoretic Excel schedule or else have [00:37:45] an accounts receivable mode that you're going to set up for this thing manage [00:37:50] the ownership have owners change a bill set and then they come back and you have [00:37:58] to go back and get them yeah I was I was in that office I know that it's a big [00:38:03] job so I'm just saying it's not such a big job to set it up in the system and [00:38:11] collect it that way and back to your point Mike [00:38:19] you don't know because we don't have who has the documentation how many people [00:38:24] are going to fall into chopper situation how many people are going to fall into [00:38:28] the landlord [00:38:42] which us talk to us [00:38:49] form them and let them know but right now we've done more discussing [00:38:59] I'm willing to adapt in here also bringing all these situations up we [00:39:08] haven't heard you'll hear about well we probably will but I but she also said [00:39:13] that she would put together I thank you for having the work session and I [00:39:23] appreciate the fact that you were willing to sit and listen to my [00:39:26] arguments I hope that you'll agree that one argument that we have all of this [00:39:31] his own confusion this is a not an argument it really isn't an argument I [00:39:37] don't know if someone wants to tell me wrong but all we have to do is put a [00:39:41] charge in every month it's not going to be calculated on the days and to this [00:39:47] other point of getting the owners it's a whole nothing point of keeping track of [00:39:53] them and I've said for a long time I'd be willing to ask for us to make owners [00:39:58] responsible for the water bills so if we want owners responsible for the sanitary [00:40:06] election like well we could look at that and I know it's been brought up many [00:40:12] times before if an owner is responsible for a water bill and he signs in the [00:40:17] tenant signs a lease and says this is my lease then that lease is going to say [00:40:24] you have to pay your water in your collection and if you don't then they [00:40:29] can turn it off and so they can complain all legally they want to but we can [00:40:33] always go back to the to the owners that was our issue of trying to collect bad [00:40:38] water bills because we have they move out of town big list you have to have a [00:40:43] uncollectible list every year you have to calculate what it is it's part of [00:40:47] doing business we lose the money that we pay for the water but we don't have to [00:40:52] lose the money that that when we turn somebody off because they haven't paid [00:40:56] their garbage and can someone tell me where in the world the garbage companies [00:41:03] continue to have to take and collect garbage from people who aren't paying [00:41:06] the bill they don't just shut off the bill tell them hey take four off this [00:41:13] one take six off this one it's really a lot simpler so if you don't believe me [00:41:19] that's fine [00:41:36] you [00:41:48] and that's a more effective way to do it [00:41:54] at least we have the person [00:41:58] how do you own the house [00:42:04] all right left two months ago [00:42:10] the final question and I won't say anything more of it than to say from a [00:42:15] standpoint of giving service to our residents if a resident wants to turn [00:42:19] off their water because they're going they're going north are we going to now [00:42:26] say to the snowbirds that you're gone [00:42:31] garbage that we will not bill you and tell them tell the vendor they have the [00:42:41] call-outs every day whatever they do to say this we did talk about it and it's a [00:42:50] very common practice in the open market to offer the opportunity to customers to [00:43:00] have turn-on turn-off privileges not so much in a closed market system but if it [00:43:07] is the collective wishes of counsel to be able to do something like that within [00:43:14] our system then I would say we have to cage the system somehow by establishing [00:43:21] parameters by saying you have to be gone a month or it's not worth our time of [00:43:26] turning it on turning it off and your water has to be off during that time as [00:43:32] well to make sure that no one else is using the property. [00:43:36] That would be what I would have envisioned if you had done it. I would say this to you [00:43:46] consider the things that I've said please think about your best and most [00:43:52] efficient way to do this and I won't kick but I think it's important and I [00:44:00] think Chopper that you were confronted at that meeting with it and felt they [00:44:06] could turn it off and if they turn off their water they could turn off their [00:44:12] garbage we could notify them and we don't have to have a whole big hullabaloo [00:44:17] about it but I think those are the issues with charging everyone all year [00:44:21] which you can do and you know Mike if it happens that way it happens but it but [00:44:27] it's the loss of a privilege that they have had and you'll you know so that's [00:44:36] one group that'll probably kick. [00:44:40] They might not be happy but what I'm seeing in other areas [00:44:47] you [00:44:54] a lot of times it's coming with fee [00:45:00] Well, they can't turn their tag off, the state doesn't give them a break, they're not driving [00:45:26] on the streets, right? [00:45:28] So they've got to have insurance, and there's some companies that, you know, they would [00:45:43] suspend certain coverages, they don't need to, they're going to keep them off. [00:45:49] That comes with inherent issues, and there used to be, that used to be a widespread practice [00:45:53] in the industry, it's becoming lesser, simply because of the costs associated with doing [00:46:02] that, and frankly, the liability, when you come back and turn it on and off. [00:46:12] And they'll turn the water on and flush the water out, right? [00:46:16] You know, I don't have an opinion about that, there's, you know, we have fewer snowbirds [00:46:29] than we used to have, you know, before a month, and they're going to save $15 on the trash, [00:46:41] there's going to be a $10 feed cut off, a $10 feed cut back on, and they're going to pay more to do that, if we were to put that plan in action for the trash. [00:47:02] One thing that I don't know is if, you know, there's some cities that have their own trash collection, right? [00:47:19] Fixed costs, and variable costs would be the extra dumpage, you know, tonnage when they go to dump. [00:47:28] So, you know, I think my opinion is that they need to stop that, because for that fixed fee, they're still paying for the truck, and so forth, and that probably makes as much or more, probably a lot more of a cost than the actual, a huge, being, you know, charged to dump it. [00:47:57] So, you know, they may not have that privilege in those municipalities. [00:48:13] Water is variable, you're not home, you don't use the water, you don't use the water. [00:48:17] So, you know, I would, you know, I would leave it to, they could do that, however, I'd still go back to the majority of the residents pay for their trash on a quarterly bill, they have done it for years. [00:48:48] Disruptive for most of the people who just continue to do it. [00:49:01] The second issue, and I do want to know who the billing collection is going to do this, or if it's going to come out of the accounting. [00:49:13] But it does go to this issue of ownership versus renter, and that's the bottom line. [00:49:26] We have a water bill that collects from renters. [00:49:28] It was used as an argument that we don't have all the security to make sure we can collect all that money. [00:49:36] So we're collecting the money for the third party, we're not collecting it for ourselves, so we are more of a collecting agency for them. [00:49:46] And they haven't weighed in, and I don't know if they want to or not, but if we go to the owners, then all of those people who have been paying quarterly, who are renters, are now, there's going to be a new group of people that are going to. [00:50:03] From a standpoint of what's the biggest interruption, is it going to be telling someone they're paying monthly now instead of quarterly? [00:50:11] Or is it going to be telling someone, you're not paying for this anymore, someone else is paying for it now? [00:50:19] Because that's what you're doing, you're taking the bill away from the renters and you're putting it for the homeowners. [00:50:26] That could be a renter in a single family home, or chances are 50-50, I don't know the numbers, how many landowners are paying. [00:50:38] They don't want to pay the water bill, that's for sure, because they want that renter to be responsible for wasting water. [00:50:44] So that's the pitch to the renter when it comes to water bills. [00:50:51] So my guess is that Chopper, and I don't know, and I'm sorry I didn't fully understand what you were saying because I wasn't listening, [00:50:59] but I don't know how many landlords like yours are picking up the garbage, and it goes into a can, it doesn't go into a dumpster, it goes into a can. [00:51:09] I don't know how many of those there are. [00:51:14] Because you know the guy's got the service and it's part of his rent and up on his backyard and code enforcement has to deal with it. [00:51:26] Maybe we could have less dumpsters in town, because we have to have a dumpster and a closure, and that's probably when there's five rentals or more, [00:51:39] or if there's two or three or a duplex. [00:51:41] So one thing I know for sure, Kelly, all the years I've done street assessments before we got smart and put it on the tax bill, to your point, [00:51:53] nothing is fair to everybody. Somebody's going to get hurt. [00:52:00] That's why she also said that we're going to have some unique situations and she'll have a committee to deal with. [00:52:08] All I'm asking is that they consider what I've said today and that nobody holds them, I'm not going to push them, [00:52:16] I don't get on the phone and try to change policy, so this is my only chance to talk with you all. [00:52:23] My question is to say, please examine this, you have time, and decide how you think you can most efficiently do this [00:52:33] under the fact that maybe you've learned a few things tonight that don't make it quite so difficult [00:52:39] and if the pushback is coming from billing and collections because they don't want to put it on the water bill, [00:52:46] or because it's problematic, just do an honest appraisal of how much time and effort and staff time that you need [00:52:54] and you'll figure it out, because it's time, it's going to take effort on both sides, [00:53:00] but you add up that paper, mail out, management of a whole set of 4,000 or however many, [00:53:11] because this only goes to the city residents, this doesn't go outside city boundaries. [00:53:17] The other thing we can do with city residents, which we haven't got to yet, is we can charge a water utility tax, [00:53:27] which many do, in fact we would probably do that if we lost... [00:53:31] But the point is that those kind of things go on the water bill, they're a straight up number, [00:53:38] they don't have to do with anything other than that. [00:53:44] We've talked about water bills skipping town and so forth, I think that frankly we look at that [00:53:50] and we have to do some analysis again about the cost of chasing it down and so forth, [00:53:56] and if we have a problem, we're losing money and people skipping on water bills, [00:54:00] I think we can look at that administratively and say, well we need to change the deposit people make. [00:54:07] Run a credit check on them before we give them the bill and make that based upon what their deposit is going to be [00:54:13] or something to that nature. [00:54:19] Do the owners get stuck with that bill if the runner skips out? No. [00:54:25] There's been legal look at it back and forth, I've never heard a real strong opinion [00:54:29] on whether we could say we're not going to give water. [00:54:34] We're kind of working with the trash. [00:54:44] You can increase the deposit, right? They do that with your electric bill. [00:54:48] If you move into a house that's had previous issues with the electric bill not being paid, [00:54:52] even if you have never had any issues in your name, your deposit's higher because you're moving into a home [00:54:58] where the home had issues with non-payment. [00:55:01] So that's how they increase your deposits, and so couldn't you do that with the water too? [00:55:05] We have a household that has had history of not being paid, [00:55:09] and the next person that moves in pays a higher deposit because it's got a history of not being paid. [00:55:15] That's what the electric companies do. [00:55:17] I also went from one place to the other place and there was no deposit because of my record of where I'd been. [00:55:22] Are we, are we, yeah, I mean, will we, talking about it, will we be taking action? [00:55:34] We can't in the work session. [00:55:36] Not on the agenda. [00:55:38] No, we can't during a work session, but you've given us good ideas, [00:55:44] and one of them is that it's of interest to you, and it's certainly of interest to us. [00:55:49] We are losing taxpayer money, no matter what the amount is, [00:55:53] and if there are ways that we can tighten up the system, we certainly want to do that, [00:55:57] so let us talk to the city attorney and see what things we can do, [00:56:01] and we'll have a report back to you on what, some things that we can institute so that our collection rate will go up. [00:56:09] Just talking about bills. [00:56:11] It's a little like a sidebar. [00:56:13] I mean, we're talking about basically a residential. [00:56:16] How much is the border? [00:56:22] It's $58, $59, I think it's $58 now. [00:56:26] $60 a border for, they could have a $30 deposit. [00:56:30] Oh. [00:56:33] We've got deposits for water, we've got deposits for trash. [00:56:45] Thank you all for listening to me, and I'm leaving it up to you. [00:56:51] I have great faith in Crystal Don and Debbie. [00:56:55] I don't think there's any nefarious activity here. [00:57:00] I'm trying to share the fact that some of these things might not be as much of an impact. [00:57:06] It does come back to whether we have to go to the owners, or we leave the system, [00:57:12] and just weave in the garbage before folks will take it. [00:57:18] Picker and last and work the best. [00:57:22] It'll be your choice. [00:57:24] I don't think owners will have a problem. [00:57:30] Thank you. [00:57:46] Also in this discussion item.

   This text was generated automatically from the meeting video. It is not a verbatim or official record. For exact wording, consult the video or the city clerk.

3. 3Communications▶ 57:50
4. 4Adjournment