On the agenda

1. 1Call to Order - Roll Call▶ 0:00
2. 2

   Approval of April 6, 2021 CRA Meeting Minutes

   approved

   The CRA Board approved the minutes from the April 6, 2021 meeting.

   • motion:Approve the April 6, 2021 CRA meeting minutes. (passed)

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   [00:00:16] First item is the approval of the April 6th meeting minutes. [00:00:19] Move for approval. [00:00:21] Second. [00:00:22] Any discussion? [00:00:23] Hearing none, all those in favor, please signify by saying aye. [00:00:26] Aye. [00:00:27] Opposed, likes aye.

   This text was generated automatically from the meeting video. It is not a verbatim or official record. For exact wording, consult the video or the city clerk.

3. 3

   ↳You arrived here from a search for “2020 CRA Annual Report” — transcript expanded below

   2020 CRA Annual Report Presentation

   discussed

   Staff presented the 2020 CRA Annual Report covering FY2019-2020, highlighting hotel construction continuing through COVID, new business openings, $123,000 in incentive grants expended, completion of the marketing/branding master plan, and financial position of $5.5M in assets and $9.1M in liabilities (largely due to an $8.8M loan from the general fund). Board members discussed the negative fund balance context and confirmed the parking garage funding will appear in next year's report.

   📍Marine Parkway / U.S. 19📍US 19 and Main Street🏢Explore New Port Richey🏢Main Street Landings🏢Widow Fletcher's👤Charles👤Jim👤Matt👤Mia Gorman👤Mike👤Mr. Hale👤Mr. Rod👤Ms. Vance#2020 CRA Annual Report#Branding, Marketing, and Public Relations Master Plan#CRA redevelopment plan amendment#Downtown master plan#FDOT grant application#Highway 19 landscaping ordinance#Kaiser project#Marine Parkway U.S. 19 pedestrian bridge#US 19 corridor master plan

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   [00:00:30] Next, 2020 CRA annual report presentation. [00:00:34] Yes, pursuant to the Florida statute, we are prepared this evening to present to you the [00:00:41] annual report, which covers the time period October 1st, 2019, through September 30th, [00:00:51] 2020, and features our redevelopment activities for that time period, as well as a financial [00:00:59] statement, and Mr. Rod will be presenting the report to you this evening. [00:01:04] Thank you. [00:01:05] My pleasure. [00:01:06] It was a great year for the CRA, and so I just took some excerpts from the report to [00:01:12] show you tonight. [00:01:14] Again, this is activity that ended at the end of September of last year, so it's the [00:01:18] previous fiscal year. [00:01:20] As required in the statute, we have to show the map of the CRA. [00:01:24] We have it on our website and in this report. [00:01:26] The red boundary is the city. [00:01:28] The green area is the CRA, and you can see a little bit upper right and lower right corners [00:01:33] those areas that were removed from the CRA this last year. [00:01:38] So the major highlights, the hotel work continued. [00:01:42] It did not stop due to COVID. [00:01:44] It did slow quite a bit. [00:01:45] The contractors that were showing up stopped coming, but the crew, the onsite crew, Jim's [00:01:49] crew, kept working through the pandemic. [00:01:52] Both Main Street Landings and the Central and Orange got their COs and began renting [00:01:58] and didn't quite fill up by the end of the fiscal year, but did shortly thereafter. [00:02:04] We had quite a few new businesses open all through the pandemic. [00:02:08] This is a list of those businesses in the previous fiscal year. [00:02:11] We had quite a few more just last fall. [00:02:14] And then these are our incentive grants. [00:02:17] We had budgeted $200,000. [00:02:19] We actually expended $123,000. [00:02:21] And the reason we didn't expend it all is we had committed all of it, but many times [00:02:25] the applicants are having difficulty getting all the paperwork submitted and so forth. [00:02:31] So we did actually have that amount dedicated for budgets. [00:02:36] Also last year for Highway 19, we did, you adopted a landscaping ordinance, or the City [00:02:41] Council did, for our automobile dealerships to help clean those up, the used car lots. [00:02:46] And then also, along with that, the CARET was a landscaping grant. [00:02:50] And then we started the master planning process for US 19. [00:02:55] Construction had begun on Kaiser, not yet on the parking garage. [00:02:59] It was in design, but it was very close. [00:03:02] And then Widow Fletcher's completed their restoration, renovation, and opened just as [00:03:08] the COVID restrictions were coming into place. [00:03:12] As far as plans and studies, last fiscal year you updated the redevelopment plan and amended it. [00:03:18] Also the branding, marketing, and public relations master plan was completed. [00:03:22] We started the master planning for the downtown and the US 19 corridor. [00:03:26] And you also voted and amended the CRA map to reduce the area of the CRA. [00:03:32] For housing rehabilitation programs, we spent just short of $100,000. [00:03:37] This is an example of window and roofing projects that were completed. [00:03:41] And then part of the requirements is for us to list all the projects in the redevelopment plan, [00:03:47] how much we budgeted for them, and then what we actually spent on them. [00:03:51] And this does show quite a few projects that we did not expend funds because if you look at the [00:03:57] property acquisition, we transferred about $1 million to that line for the Kaiser project [00:04:04] out on US 19 and Main Street. [00:04:07] We have to list the original assessed value, which was $366,405,000. [00:04:13] And the most current value is $571,215,000. [00:04:19] And the total amount we expended for affordable housing for low-income, middle-income residents [00:04:24] was just short of $100,000. [00:04:27] And then, as I mentioned, we completed the marketing and public relations master plan. [00:04:32] So we began rolling out the brand. [00:04:34] Part of that was a new brand for the city in the redevelopment area. [00:04:38] So the brand rollout with logos, colors, typeface. [00:04:42] We also had quite a bit of signage, banners, and swag and apparel and so forth. [00:04:49] It was a lot of fun rolling out those different ways of showing off the brand [00:04:52] and getting it out into the community. [00:04:54] Our social media was launched. [00:04:57] And this shows we had almost 12,000 followers. [00:05:00] That was as of the end of September. [00:05:02] We have much more than that now. [00:05:04] We have a Facebook page for the downtown. [00:05:06] We have a Facebook page for the entire city called Explore New Port Richey. [00:05:10] We have an Instagram page. [00:05:12] And then we also developed quite a bit of content. [00:05:15] We did not launch the website until October, so it would be this fiscal year. [00:05:21] And much of that content on those social media sites drive people to our website. [00:05:26] We have quite a bit of traffic on our new website. [00:05:28] We did some printed material, shopping guide, dining guide, [00:05:31] and then as well as additional online outreach. [00:05:35] And then finally, the balance sheet, this is in the report, [00:05:38] shows we have $5.5 million in total assets, $9.1 million in total liabilities. [00:05:49] And that's the report in brief, and I'll be happy to answer any questions. [00:05:53] Questions, anyone? [00:05:56] Just one comment on that last slide on the finance side, just to bring maybe Mike up to what we observed [00:06:09] when we had our last city or county meeting over in Elfers, [00:06:13] when some on the county commission had been arguing that we had a big fund balance [00:06:22] and they were just missing the point that we have a negative fund balance, [00:06:25] but it's only negative because of the size of the loan [00:06:33] and the former write-down of some of the assets which are now producing for us, [00:06:37] like the central and some of the other real estate assets that we have. [00:06:45] I believe we, I'm not sure, did we sell, had we sold the old post office in last fiscal year [00:06:52] or was it this current? [00:06:54] Last fiscal year. [00:06:55] For this report here. [00:06:57] So all those transactions are there, but the loans are all, all of these loans are to the city, [00:07:05] is that correct, back to the city? [00:07:07] Yes, the advances from other funds, the $8.8 million, [00:07:10] that's that one loan from the general fund to the CRA. [00:07:14] Right, and just to reiterate it, it's been said before, [00:07:17] but for folks that look at us and say we've got so much of our area in the CRA [00:07:24] and all of the tax benefit is going to the CRA, including our own tax-based gains, [00:07:33] the tax on all of the new values that we're creating, [00:07:37] at least we've got almost $9 million to pay back over to the general fund [00:07:42] so that we can sustain it for at least the next number of years, [00:07:46] however long that takes for us to pay it back. [00:07:49] And so I think it works out nicely for us to be able to maintain such a large CRA balance, [00:07:54] knowing that the general fund is getting a good bit of that back, [00:07:57] some of which is loaned to the general fund by that recent loan. [00:08:01] Does this incorporate the money in advance for the parking garage? [00:08:09] No. [00:08:10] It doesn't. [00:08:12] So that will be another issue there then. [00:08:15] Right, and that would be represented in next year's report, [00:08:19] but as a transfer to the debt service fund, not the general fund. [00:08:23] So it's a direct agreement between, you know, it's a general fund loan, [00:08:27] but the CRA will pay the debt service off directly. [00:08:31] But the asset of the parking garage will also be listed, [00:08:33] so it won't be all more negative, right? [00:08:37] Correct. [00:08:39] So that's going to increase our $5.5 million in assets then. [00:08:44] Very good. [00:08:45] Any other questions? [00:08:47] Hearing none, thank you very much. [00:08:50] Next item is the discussion on the Marine Parkway U.S. 19 pedestrian bridge. [00:08:54] Ms. Vance. [00:08:56] Thank you, Mr. Mayor. [00:08:57] As long as we had your ear tonight, [00:08:59] we wanted to bring you up to date on some discussions that have occurred [00:09:05] related to the Marine Parkway U.S. 19 pedestrian bridge [00:09:10] and get some more direction from you so that we can, as a staff, [00:09:16] know how to go forward with some necessary planning. [00:09:20] And when I say planning, [00:09:22] I mean a feasibility and design phase for the project. [00:09:29] And I will allow Mr. Rudd to introduce to you where we are. [00:09:37] But just to start, in short, [00:09:41] we were putting together a grant application and learned from FDOT that [00:09:51] our cost estimates, they projected that we were off. [00:09:57] They projected that we were off much more than we had hoped to here. [00:10:04] Their estimate was that our cost may have fallen between $9 and $10 million. [00:10:15] We don't know that, though. [00:10:17] We don't know that because a feasibility study hasn't been done [00:10:21] and the design work for the project hasn't been completed. [00:10:26] And in order for us to really hone in on construction costs, [00:10:33] we need to go to that next step. [00:10:38] We did propose an appropriation of funds in this year's budget for some planning, [00:10:49] but it's not near enough money to cover the expenses that would be associated [00:10:59] with the project if we were to accommodate for a bicycle [00:11:05] and pedestrian overhead facility. [00:11:10] And I know I said I'd let you speak, Charles. [00:11:13] That pretty much sums it up. [00:11:16] I'm sorry for that. [00:11:17] No, that's all right. [00:11:19] And one of the factors that I need to rely on, Mr. Hale, [00:11:24] you, I know, were speaking with FDOT to try to determine from them [00:11:31] what the maximum amount would be that we would receive in grant funds. [00:11:37] Did they ever get back to you with that figure? [00:11:42] FDOT did not. [00:11:44] Mia Gorman with the county was the one that got back to me. [00:11:48] And, you know, it's like any other grant. [00:11:51] You can ask for 100%, but don't expect to get it. [00:11:56] And so basically the more skin in the game that we have, [00:12:01] the better our chances of getting a grant. [00:12:03] But basically she said, I can't tell you what you can get. [00:12:06] You can ask for 100%. [00:12:09] You're probably not going to get that. [00:12:11] She said, in all likelihood, [00:12:13] you should not ask for any more than 50% for the grant. [00:12:20] And that would be, all depends, as Matt knows, [00:12:23] he's on the NPO board, depends on what other projects [00:12:26] and things they're looking at to where this would fit [00:12:29] to how much they would then put towards it. [00:12:35] In any event, the other component to the project that's changed considerably [00:12:43] is the location on the east side of U.S. Highway 19. [00:12:54] That makes the most sense for the bridge to be located. [00:13:01] At one time, it was thought to be on the north side of Marine Parkway. [00:13:10] And since that time, some changes have been made to the property [00:13:19] and a somewhat blighted building has been removed [00:13:25] and a new retail facility has been put in place. [00:13:29] Not a high-end user by any means, but we really need, [00:13:38] if you determine it's appropriate that you want to go forward with the project, [00:13:42] some direction from you as to whether or not you would like us [00:13:48] to continue to pursue the north side or the south side of Marine Parkway. [00:13:58] Certainly, Marine Parkway on the south side of the road [00:14:04] represents an interesting opportunity because it is in need of redevelopment without question.

   This text was generated automatically from the meeting video. It is not a verbatim or official record. For exact wording, consult the video or the city clerk.

4. 4

   Marine Parkway/US19 Pedestrian Bridge

   discussed

   The CRA Board discussed the proposed Marine Parkway/US19 pedestrian bridge project, including cost concerns ($5.1M FDOT estimate plus ~$1.3M design), connection to the coast-to-coast bike trail, and whether to include golf cart access (which would disqualify FDOT grant funding). Board reached consensus to move forward with a feasibility study and to gather pedestrian/golf cart traffic counts at Marine Parkway and Main Street crossings of US 19.

   • consensus:Board reached consensus directing staff to proceed with a feasibility study for the Marine Parkway/US 19 pedestrian bridge and to investigate gathering pedestrian and golf cart traffic counts at Main Street and Marine Parkway crossings. (passed)

   📍Avery Road📍Gulf Trace📍Gunter Flag property📍Main Street and US 19📍Marine Parkway/US 19📍Starkey Park🏢FDOT🏢Fast Five Lube🏢MPO🏢Publix👤Catherine Starkey👤Chopper👤Councilman Davis👤Justin Hall👤Matt👤Mr. Murphy👤Mr. Peters👤Ms. Mance👤Pete👤Robert👤Rod#CRA 30-year plan#Coast-to-coast bike trail#Gulf Harbors golf cart ordinance#Pedestrian bridge feasibility study#Pinellas Trail

   ▶ Jump to 14:09 in the video

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   [00:14:15] Although the north side bears a new building, [00:14:21] it's not really the highest or the best use, perhaps, of the property. [00:14:27] So we want to at least have that discussion with you, [00:14:29] and it's a fast five lube oil change building. [00:14:38] So we just wanted to get some general comments from you and some direction. [00:14:42] Mr. Mayer, can I add some facts here? [00:14:45] So on September 14th of 2020 was the time at which the city was informed by Justin Hall [00:14:53] from DOT of the cost estimate. [00:14:55] At the time, he had it at $5.1 million. [00:14:58] So whatever was in our records, [00:15:00] That information came to us last September, and in the email I'm looking at, which I was [00:15:06] copied on going to you and Robert, they indicated that there was a 1.3 million estimate for [00:15:15] the design of the overpass, and it talked about their priorities, etc., and then it [00:15:21] said that there was an application that would be due in March, and they sent you the application [00:15:27] and all that. [00:15:28] I understand that we did not have that kind of money in the budget last year, and we're [00:15:32] back at the beginning of having a chance to talk about it again, and I think sometimes [00:15:36] when you wait, things do get better, because it appears to me that that south side is a [00:15:40] better track, especially it gets to the nightlife there and the other side of the highway. [00:15:49] So I'm pretty happy with the way that we've been going in terms of our strategy to go [00:15:55] forward, and I would just suggest that, as they have always said, and I don't know from [00:16:01] an MPO standpoint, they always say have a design ready and get it ready. [00:16:09] So we've got all kinds of options, I think, with all the potential transportation infrastructure. [00:16:16] We don't know what's coming around, but I'm committed to this. [00:16:23] We had secured funding at least maybe five years ago for this project. [00:16:28] It's been talked about and listed in our long-term capital plans for a long time. [00:16:33] So on top of that, the connection of the coast-to-coast bike trail takes it completely out of a transportation [00:16:40] project – not really, because it's still – DOT's running those coast-to-coast [00:16:44] bike plans, but we've heard our consultants and everyone else talk about the benefit of [00:16:48] getting that type of activity to come right into our downtown. [00:16:53] So for some of the other projects that we have and the dollar amounts, I think the best [00:16:59] thing for us to do is to move forward. [00:17:02] Feasibility study says find out if we can do it, and I think that we have cost estimates, [00:17:11] and we have a 30-year CRA, and I think it's time that we start identifying those sites. [00:17:17] Before that lube was there, all of those owners wanted to sell, including the tire [00:17:23] store and the empty driving store. [00:17:27] So I think we need to figure out our route and kind of get it going with the master plan [00:17:32] concept and push it as hard as we can until we get some traction. [00:17:38] Mr. Murphy, any thoughts? [00:17:40] Yeah. [00:17:41] I mean, we're not going to get anywhere or even be looked at unless we've done our [00:17:47] due diligence to get things moving. [00:17:50] Feasibility study right away. [00:17:53] These things can change over time, and we have to redo it depending on how long it goes [00:17:58] down the road, but I mean, I think it's worth the investment to start it so that way [00:18:03] if something does open up, we'll be prepared. [00:18:07] You know, in talking to some of the members, the MPO and DOT, you know, sometimes they [00:18:13] have projects that are set for a certain year, and they fall through, and extra money has [00:18:19] come available. [00:18:20] And, you know, if you get a project that's sitting there ready to go, then you're going [00:18:24] to get a good chance of getting that money. [00:18:26] So I think we just need to be prepared. [00:18:30] You know, it may take several years. [00:18:35] We have to make sure that we have our money set aside or looking at it. [00:18:41] But maybe, you know, depending on how far it goes out, we may look into doing some safety [00:18:45] improvements in that intersection anyways to make it safe, depending on how long this [00:18:49] gets pushed. [00:18:50] But we won't even be on the board unless we do our due diligence first, so. [00:18:57] I just, you know, who are we doing this for? [00:19:00] Are we doing this for Gulf Harbors? [00:19:03] Are we doing this for Whittle, Fletchers and Southgate, which is in the city? [00:19:08] You know, are we doing it to connect to the trail that's going south that's going into [00:19:13] Pinellas County? [00:19:14] You know, I'd like, you know, I mean, I think we should do a feasibility study, but I want [00:19:20] to, I think there's an elephant in the room here, you know, I mean, who are we doing this [00:19:24] for? [00:19:25] You know, are we doing it for the county? [00:19:27] You know, answer some of my questions, you know? [00:19:31] May I give it a shot? [00:19:33] Because I've been on this thing for six years and I argued in Tallahassee to get the three [00:19:37] quarters of a million they gave us, so they saw the reasoning for it, but it was a combination [00:19:42] of recreation, transportation, allowing the folks that had less income to get across to [00:19:48] the shopping, allowing the, all of the things you said, but we're also doing it for the [00:19:54] downtown businesses because, you know, that's the story of Dunedin. [00:19:58] I mean, once they opened up to the Pinellas Trail, they had a whole new group of people [00:20:02] coming. [00:20:03] Well, that's what I'm asking, is this going to connect to the trail that gets down the [00:20:05] county trail? [00:20:06] That's what I'm asking. [00:20:07] Yeah. [00:20:08] So where does that trail come into Marine Parkway? [00:20:12] Right now, it stops at Gulf Trace, it goes out to Highway 19, and it's marked all the [00:20:17] way to Marine Parkway. [00:20:19] So it's a designated trail, but we do have someone, and he came in and spoke to you about [00:20:24] bicycles at Gunter Flag. [00:20:27] He's offering to put the trail through his property to the coast to make our link, coast-to-coast [00:20:33] link, and be the connection to the Gulf of Mexico from the other side of the state, so. [00:20:38] Okay, the other question is, like I said, I'm in favor of the feasibility study, but [00:20:43] I want these things talked about, you know, and this is where we can do it. [00:20:47] Also, you know, if we're looking at, you know, businesses downtown, Gulf Harbors has opened [00:20:53] up, you know, golf carts in their neighborhood, so, you know, if we're going to look at bicycles [00:20:58] and walking, you know, we might take it to the level that it's a golf cart, you know, [00:21:04] can take a golf cart weight. [00:21:06] So, you know, just throwing these things out there that, you know, I think, you know, the [00:21:12] feasibility study might bring all that back to us, but I just think those things need [00:21:16] to be addressed. [00:21:17] If I might, Councilman Davis, we talked about the golf carts. [00:21:23] No grant can be towards anything other than bikes and pedestrians, so if you change it [00:21:29] to golf cart width, everything as far as grant is off the table. [00:21:33] They don't provide grant money for the golf carts. [00:21:35] We actually went through that since I've been here. [00:21:37] We went bikes, pedestrians to golf carts, now we're back to bikes, pedestrians, but [00:21:42] if you do golf carts, then FDOT is not, grant money is not available. [00:21:47] For that portion of the project. [00:21:49] Right, for the pedestrian bridge over the 19, I should say. [00:21:56] For the lane that would be used, for the portion of the bridge that would not be for the pedestrians, [00:22:00] perhaps. [00:22:01] That's correct. [00:22:02] Thank you, Rod. [00:22:03] Mr. Peters, anything? [00:22:04] So, yeah, I'm a biker, and I'm, you know... [00:22:09] You're a three-wheeler now. [00:22:13] And I've used the Pinellas Trail, and, you know, I've taken our trail from downtown all [00:22:23] the way out to Starkey Park, and enjoy that. [00:22:30] And I'm okay with the feasibility study, I'm just choking on the bill. [00:22:37] And, you know, I understand we've got to get started on things, because it takes years [00:22:43] to develop. [00:22:46] And I guess what I would, you know, what I'd like to see is some of our within our city [00:22:53] trails being developed, and how much they're being utilized, so that we can kind of have [00:22:59] an idea of what use this might, you know, forecast to have. [00:23:03] And I appreciate the coast-to-coast thing, because I know that there is a big group of [00:23:10] folks that do those, I don't do those long bike rides like that from, you know, they'll [00:23:16] pick up and go all the way across to Melbourne, and through Orlando, and all the way over. [00:23:21] But that's, I'm just choking at what the expense is here. [00:23:30] I have done the coast-to-coast ride, and it is long, and some of the stretches are [00:23:37] scary dangerous, at least when I went with a group to do it. [00:23:42] I've got the same concerns about the total price. [00:23:46] If this turns into a nine or ten million dollar project, we're looking at being on the hook [00:23:53] for five million dollars. [00:23:54] And I have to ask myself, are there other improvements that we could do that would be [00:24:00] more beneficial for everybody? [00:24:03] Because in the final analysis, if we could get FDOT to just recognize reality, and fix [00:24:14] that intersection so that bicycles, pedestrians, and golf carts can all safely get across it, [00:24:23] then the bridge becomes almost a moot point. [00:24:30] I think they're whistling in the wind if they don't think that golf carts are going to go [00:24:39] across. [00:24:40] The golf carts are going across every single day. [00:24:43] They're doing that now. [00:24:46] They're going across at Marine Parkway, and they're going across at Main Street, that [00:24:51] I've seen. [00:24:52] And I'd be willing to bet they're probably going across at golf as well. [00:24:58] And the chief is shaking his head. [00:25:02] I really think, with or without a pedestrian bicycle overpass there, we have got to get [00:25:11] FDOT to recognize reality and fix those signals so that people can safely get across the street. [00:25:21] It is a safety hazard. [00:25:23] It's a problem. [00:25:25] And they've got a responsibility. [00:25:27] That's a state highway, a U.S. highway. [00:25:31] FDOT out of Tampa, District 7 I guess it is, has an absolute total responsibility for engineering [00:25:41] that intersection so that it is safe for everybody that's going across it. [00:25:46] And I don't really care if they like who's going across it or not. [00:25:49] That's not the issue. [00:25:52] There are people that are going to go across, and it needs to be safe. [00:25:57] If we get safe transit for the golf carts and you still want to talk about doing bicycle [00:26:04] and pedestrian overpass, and we can do that at some reasonable amount, then yeah, I'd [00:26:12] entertain that. [00:26:13] But the concept of a $9 or $10 million structure that doesn't include golf carts, I mean, if [00:26:21] we did golf carts, what are we going to, we were talking about doubling the cost of the [00:26:25] project, at least several million dollars more, I mean, you're talking about a huge [00:26:31] expense that's not going to be heavily utilized. [00:26:36] From my perspective, that's not money particularly well spent. [00:26:41] If you guys want to do the preliminary feasibility study on it, I'd go along with that. [00:26:51] But I've got real reservations about spending that many million dollars on that project. [00:26:58] I agree with you. [00:27:03] We start talking about those kind of numbers and coming out of our budget, there's a lot [00:27:07] of other projects that probably we'd like to do that we think are more important. [00:27:13] We may get the feasibility study back, estimates back, the right of way, and sit down and look [00:27:21] at it all. [00:27:22] It may not make sense or feasible, but I think we've just got to get the information, true [00:27:26] information in front of us so we know, and then we can make a decision. [00:27:30] But I think you're right on with the amount of money that's going to go into this thing [00:27:34] is not really, I don't know if we're getting the value out of it. [00:27:39] Chopper, you had something to add? [00:27:42] I know we do traffic studies, right, and we know what kind of cars go on different intersections. [00:27:47] So we've done a pedestrian study. [00:27:49] How many people do we have that cross 19 at our crosswalks here in the city? [00:27:57] We want to count that one. [00:27:58] We want to count golf. [00:27:59] We want to go and count Main Street or whatever. [00:28:03] I wonder currently what that traffic count is. [00:28:07] There's a question. [00:28:08] When they hit the button to cross pedestrian, does it count them? [00:28:12] No. [00:28:13] Robert, no. [00:28:14] Is there a way to count them? [00:28:17] I'm not sure I can find out. [00:28:19] If it's, you know, $500 to change the thing or something, then we might find out. [00:28:24] The reason I ask that, I don't know if we have that kind of idea, but is, you know, [00:28:30] is like it's either build it and they will come, or wait till they come and complain [00:28:37] and then we build it. [00:28:38] Right? [00:28:39] So that's two ways we kind of look at it, is what I'm thinking, right? [00:28:43] And, you know, again, and I don't, and it goes back before my time, I guess, is why [00:28:50] do we, why was this location selected as opposed to... [00:28:53] All the work we've done in Marine Parkway. [00:28:55] Okay. [00:28:56] Yeah. [00:28:57] All right. [00:28:58] As opposed to further north. [00:28:59] Plus the development of the hospital property. [00:29:00] The hospital property. [00:29:01] Okay. [00:29:02] So... [00:29:03] Yeah. [00:29:04] You could make a real good argument for doing something at Main Street and you could cross [00:29:12] and you could probably make a pretty good argument at Avery Road, but because of having [00:29:20] the trail and the opportunity, as Pete's indicated, to be able to tie all this stuff into a coherent [00:29:27] piece, that one probably makes the most sense for a first one. [00:29:34] Pete? [00:29:35] Yeah. [00:29:36] You know, if you did a study to see how many people went golfing before you built the golf [00:29:42] course, I'm sure you would be able to talk yourself out of it, but this is an economic [00:29:46] strategy that our consultants have been very excited about and told us it was a great idea. [00:29:52] So, and I don't know what is pushing the negativity on this thing, but it's... [00:30:00] three and a half million, 30 years, 90, 100 and some million dollars are going to come [00:30:05] into this redevelopment project. [00:30:09] So let's add up these projects and let's prioritize them. [00:30:12] I'm with you. [00:30:13] We've got the downtown, we've got the corner to do, we've got the waterfront to do, we've [00:30:17] got other options we haven't talked about to do. [00:30:20] But back to Matt's point and to mine, I think, you know, there's a lot of excitement about [00:30:25] recreational tourism, the stories for parks, for recreation and open space, the rentals [00:30:33] or outdoor space have been big now. [00:30:36] Granted, the COVID will be over and we'll all go back and crawl into our caves maybe. [00:30:40] But you know, for now, outdoor experiences are big. [00:30:44] I would like the feasibility study to try to get some data from Pinellas County as to [00:30:51] the value of the trail to the economy. [00:30:53] And there's been studies, I think Catherine Starkey's had one, that indicated the property [00:30:58] values rise when there is that kind of an amenity. [00:31:01] So asking the homeless, who are the main ones that are crossing, other than the most courageous [00:31:08] city manager in the state who does cross it, you know. [00:31:12] Who is, for the record, not homeless. [00:31:17] And the mayor, who likes to walk across the highway, apparently. [00:31:24] I would think that, you know, in the overall spirit of our CRA meeting that we're in right [00:31:30] now, and we should be, and I'm hoping we do gather up the CRA deals. [00:31:37] That's why I think we'd be a year down the road. [00:31:39] But just doing a feasibility study and having this discussion again, if you all are just [00:31:43] against it, you might as well tell me because I've been pushing this thing for six years [00:31:48] now. [00:31:49] And there's a lot of people who are excited about it. [00:31:52] I wish we would, and I appreciate, Chopper, your commentary of saying let's have that [00:31:56] open discussion, find out who it's for, what the benefits are economically. [00:32:01] And we should do that with every project. [00:32:03] How much money's coming in? [00:32:05] Who's benefiting from the brand new tennis courts that I assume are coming open? [00:32:11] The people who play tennis. [00:32:13] And how many of them are? [00:32:14] Pickleball people, too. [00:32:15] Well, we need to put pickleball in for sure because that's, you did, so that's going like [00:32:20] a storm now. [00:32:22] But I think it has the ability to compete for projects in the long run. [00:32:27] And I think, as Matt said, we should keep it pushing along even if it's on that seven [00:32:31] year pace. [00:32:33] Is the grant money coming from the state? [00:32:36] If we get grant money, it comes from the state. [00:32:38] So then we have to get the county to get involved also, is that correct? [00:32:42] So we could be a quarter of the cost, you know, just as a thought. [00:32:48] If we're talking about $2.5 million, that's, to me, a lot better than us potentially footing [00:32:54] the bill for $10 or $15 million. [00:32:56] That makes a lot of difference. [00:32:58] Ms. Mance, would it be possible, if there's certainly an electronic way to do it, fine, [00:33:07] but if not, and probably there isn't, to get some traffic studies on pedestrians and golf [00:33:17] carts that are crossing at Main Street and at Marine Parkway, so we at least have some [00:33:26] idea of what sort of volume we've got now without adding the recreational people in? [00:33:34] We will investigate and determine if that's possible, yes. [00:33:40] I mean, just to that point too, I mean, it, you know, there may be people that have to [00:33:45] do it, but then there also is, if something was built or constructed, there'd be a lot [00:33:49] more people that'd be like, okay, now I'll go across now and, you know, safely. [00:33:53] So it could be, you know, we might not be an accurate number is what I'm saying. [00:33:57] If it were safe to do, you know, I could see us losing a car and picking up a golf cart. [00:34:07] If we could get to Publix and my wife could do her shopping there, I mean, that'd be fine. [00:34:14] Right now a golf cart doesn't make a lot of sense for us, first of all, because she's [00:34:18] driving out of town regularly, but at some point that'll end. [00:34:23] But then she goes out on the highway to get down to Publix, and if we didn't have to do [00:34:28] that, then that golf cart or something similar would make sense, again, assuming you could [00:34:35] get across the highway without getting killed. [00:34:40] I think the hard part for me was I tried to push this transportation project, but it [00:34:44] is really a recreation and a connection project. [00:34:47] I mean, cities are connected by rivers historically, then the train tracks, then the automobile, [00:34:54] and some cities that link in on this recreational trail share a common... [00:35:00] Some of you guys doing 20, 30, 40 miles, when you look at the odometer and see how far it [00:35:05] is to Tarpon, what is it, like six miles or something? [00:35:08] I mean, seven. [00:35:09] It's not far. [00:35:11] So we have the most densely populated white-collar retirees and their families that are living [00:35:18] right outside of our reach. [00:35:20] I think it doesn't work if it goes down the highway, Chopper, crossing every other street. [00:35:25] So finally we have one street we don't have to cross. [00:35:28] I think it works if we work our way all the way to the county park at the gulf and find [00:35:33] that trail to connect to Gulf Trace. [00:35:36] And maybe that's something we can leverage by doing the feasibility, say, hey, if we'll [00:35:40] do this, it'll connect, it's part of your connected trails, and then we can get into [00:35:44] the trails money. [00:35:45] Because we're not talking trails money here, I don't think, because we aren't even officially [00:35:51] on that map yet. [00:35:52] So I think there's lots of opportunities and potential. [00:35:56] So thank you all for at least allowing this to bleed slowly. [00:36:01] Ms. Mance, I think you've got some consensus to at least... [00:36:06] I do. [00:36:07] Take a look and... [00:36:08] I just want to come in here and figure out what are we talking about. [00:36:12] And I'd want us to take a look at the DOT and see what they can do to help us with the

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5. 5Adjournment▶ 36:15