On the agenda

1. 1Call to Order - Roll Call▶ 0:00
2. 2

   Approval of the August 2, 2016 and September 15, 2016 Minutes

   approved

   The CRA Board approved the minutes from the August 2, 2016 and September 15, 2016 meetings by unanimous voice vote.

   • motion:Motion to approve the August 2, 2016 and September 15, 2016 minutes. (passed)

   👤Driscoll

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   [00:00:17] Attorney Driscoll. Here. First item is the approval of the August 2nd minutes and [00:00:22] the September 15th minutes. Move to approve. Second. We have a motion and a second to the [00:00:28] maker. Second. Any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor please signify [00:00:34] by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, the like sign. Next is Hacienda change order number

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3. 3

   ↳You arrived here from a search for “Hacienda Hotel” — transcript expanded below

   Hacienda Change Order #3 - Balconies & Bank Street Doorways

   approved

   The CRA approved Change Order #3 for historic improvements to the Hacienda Hotel, not to exceed $100,000, covering reconstruction of Sims Park north elevation balconies, fabrication of French doors at the Bank Street entrance, and second-floor French doors. Following the vote, the board had an extended discussion about the long-term endgame for the Hacienda, including whether to pursue a ballot referendum, lease arrangements (e.g., 66- or 99-year leases), and a pending $750,000 special category historic preservation grant application.

   • motion:Approve historic improvements to the Hacienda Hotel not to exceed $100,000 for reconstruction of Sims Park north elevation balconies, Bank Street entrance French doors, and second-floor French doors. (passed)

   📍Bank Street entrance📍Hacienda Hotel📍Sims Park🏢D.L. Porter🏢Florida Department of Historic Resources🏢Friends of the Hacienda🏢Gibbs Group🏢Le Meridien (Lee-Marine)🏢Rosners👤Jan Ash👤Mark Easter👤Mr. Bell Thomas👤Mr. Bender👤Mr. Iazzoni👤Mr. Phillips👤Ms. Manns👤Ms. Starkey#Ballot referendum on Hacienda disposition#Hacienda Change Order #3#Hacienda RFP#Rate analysis study#SBA 503 lending (referenced re: 99-year airport leases)#Special Category Historic Preservation Grant ($500,000 DHR + $250,000 = $750,000)#Tax increment financing

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   [00:00:40] three. Ms. Manns. Mr. Mayor, members of the council, Mr. Iazzoni will be [00:00:45] presenting this agenda item to you this evening for approval to reconstruct [00:00:52] portions of the Hacienda Hotel for an amount not to exceed a hundred thousand [00:00:57] dollars. Mr. Iazzoni. [00:01:09] Is that my microphone? [00:01:21] Staff wishes to make the historic improvements to the Hacienda Hotel. These [00:01:26] restoration improvements are part of what I would call an iterative project. Just [00:01:31] today we presented before historic resources for the special category grant [00:01:36] and in an interim we want to continue to make improvements to that funding if [00:01:41] it were to come through. Basically, there's three components. There's going to be the [00:01:46] reconstruction of the Sims Park North Elevation historical balconies, which [00:01:51] involves basically opening up a piece of the roof, the milling of the posts, and [00:01:56] the rebuilding of one of the supports for, I believe it is the east side [00:02:03] pedestal. The second part of this is the fabrication of the French doors and the [00:02:10] Bank Street entrance. And then the third part will be a set of French doors over [00:02:15] the second part. The goal here basically is to add some historical quality where [00:02:20] most of the original scope of work was removing the non-conforming additions. We [00:02:25] also want to improve the appearance. If you haven't noticed recently, we have [00:02:32] gone in, I figure how many number of windows we've repaired, but even over the [00:02:35] weekend we had some more windows repaired just to really try to improve [00:02:39] the appearance overall as we kind of continue forward. So what we're [00:02:45] requesting is approval of historic improvements to the Hacienda not to [00:02:49] exceed $100,000 for the construction of the balconies and the Bank Street [00:02:54] entrance and the second floor French doors. [00:02:59] Open it up for public comment. Seeing no one come forward, bring it back to the CRA. [00:03:04] Move for approval for discussion purposes. We have a motion. Second. We have a second. To the [00:03:10] maker. Mr. Mayor or Executive Director or whatever title we're supposed to use [00:03:16] here. First of all, it seems like every time we touch this project the prices [00:03:24] escalate. I remember talking about this part of this project about six months [00:03:30] ago and I was under the distinct impression I was looking at 60 maybe [00:03:35] $80,000 and I know we got this up to. I always find that when you're up to that [00:03:42] everything falls right underneath what the up to is and I would figure with the [00:03:48] expertise that's been in and out of this building as many times as they have and [00:03:51] as much grandiose compliments they make that they give us a pretty good idea of [00:03:57] what we're looking at, number one. Number two, we keep we keep investing in this [00:04:05] particular project and maybe that's a necessary due to the fact that for [00:04:14] almost 10 years the city didn't respect its asset and now we've been able to [00:04:24] garner those things to do that. I know we're having tours pretty soon or we're [00:04:32] going to be doing tours for the Friends of the Hacienda on that weekend and we [00:04:36] can talk about that on the back side of this agenda item but there's a [00:04:44] larger conversation that needs to happen about the Hacienda and [00:04:50] hopefully we can have a little bit after this agenda item and then maybe hopefully [00:04:55] we could have a workshop and begin to discuss it a little bit further but you [00:05:03] can't tell, I can't tell what you've done to the windows or anything else because [00:05:09] the fence is still up. Hay bales are still around so when all those things [00:05:15] are still out there it's not inviting, it doesn't tell me anything and I'm still [00:05:22] looking for the overview of when we're going to finish our consultant report so [00:05:31] that we can go back for whatever acronym you want to use RFP, RFA, RFT, RFQ, I don't [00:05:40] care what it is because I have to take you back Mayor you and I and Mr. Bell [00:05:46] Thomas. Roughly this time four years ago, October-November 2012, we had an [00:05:58] opportunity to tour the Hacienda. We challenged and we encouraged and we [00:06:03] invited the public in November-December time frame to come to us. In January the [00:06:10] following year we had a massive turnout and we are where we are but to the [00:06:21] agenda item you know up to $100,000 I'm just hoping that we don't come back and [00:06:30] have a price that's going to be over that amount to do what we need to to [00:06:35] present this to the next end-user. Thank you Mr. Mayor. Thank you, to the second. [00:06:42] I'm good. Director Starkey. Well after we vote maybe Mr. Arizona can tell us exactly what you're [00:06:48] doing up in Tallahassee today. Oh. Do you want to vote first and then discuss? Okay let's vote first. [00:06:55] On the cost break, actually we went back to the D.L. Porter and said to [00:07:01] sharpen their pencil on some of these and refine this also and we do have a [00:07:04] cost break breakdown on that and they actually went to a different [00:07:09] construction company for the balcony to try to reduce the cost. Mr. Bender on his [00:07:14] way over to Flagstaff had agreed to meet with us in Tallahassee. We had submitted [00:07:20] a grant application. There are 99 special category grant submission before the [00:07:25] Department of Historic Resources. The funding amount would be $500,000 [00:07:31] or some DHR and 250 should be $750,000. The body of that work is the [00:07:39] installation of the windows and doors. I can tell you one thing which has been [00:07:45] really positive. We happen to have lunch with one of the members up there and [00:07:50] we're able to get his ear a little bit and the key point is exactly what [00:07:58] Councilman Phil talks about. About 200 people showing up for the cleanup and a [00:08:02] thousand people showing up for the tours. What really scores well in the grant [00:08:07] application is the degree of government's involvement and the [00:08:14] community's involvement and what was emphasized by Mr. Bender to the board [00:08:18] was how this community, you know, particularly the council and how they've [00:08:23] embraced this project and really have tried to make this go forward. That's [00:08:26] why we call it an iterative project because we're really trying to take positive [00:08:30] actionable steps that gets us where we need to do. One of the things that we've [00:08:34] also done, and that's the other question, is that we have been issuing an RFP, okay, [00:08:43] and the group that came down to do the rate analysis study came down, I believe [00:08:50] it was last week, and they actually met with, I think they met the [00:08:55] mayor also, but they were very solid and they spent quite a bit of time [00:08:59] investigating the area and had a really solid perspective. I think they're firing [00:09:05] quite a number of questions at the very end. I was really happy with, I think, what [00:09:08] they're going to come up with. It was recommended that we have this rate [00:09:11] analysis included as part of the RFP. That's what we've kind of held out [00:09:14] because they felt that developers with the necessary investment capital to kind [00:09:20] of do these projects need that specific piece of information. But again, just to [00:09:24] kind of go back, what maybe gave me a real level of comfort because it is a [00:09:29] competitive process up there in Tallahassee was the level of community [00:09:33] involvement. I really felt that the goal is to score as high as possible and you [00:09:41] can just see them all light up when they talk about how a community engages a [00:09:45] specific historic property and how vital it is to the downtown. And I really felt [00:09:50] that was a positive point, but my fingers are still crossed. We'll know July 1st [00:09:54] when the appropriations occur. Any other discussion on the motion? Hearing none, [00:10:01] all those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, the like sign. Any other [00:10:06] business for the CRA? Yes sir, Mr. Mayor. With regards to the Hacienda, because it [00:10:13] seems to be one of the largest projects in that pool, and if anybody saw Miss [00:10:21] Mann's updated report from the city attorney, one of the highlighted sections [00:10:30] was as I had a meeting with the city attorney last week after exchanging some [00:10:36] emails and I wanted to be open to my colleagues in that I've been on this [00:10:47] body for four plus years, been in the community X amount of years, and I [00:10:56] usually think I've got a pretty good thumb on the pulse, finger on the pulse, [00:11:02] whatever it is of where we are. But I guess what I'm looking for is to drive [00:11:08] not only a Hacienda conversation, but I'm also trying to drive a city real estate [00:11:17] point of view. I met with the city attorney because I was asking him [00:11:24] questions about what it would take to do a ballot referendum or a question to the [00:11:31] public, because we have people that have come to see us over the last couple of [00:11:35] years and when they come they obviously want to go down memory lane about how [00:11:40] rich and how well off the CRA was back in 03, 04, 05, and when the city went on [00:11:50] its spending splurge, spurge, whatever, and created a debt element for us that [00:11:59] we've all collectively tried to work with and collectively worked since Miss [00:12:05] Manz has gotten here and Mr. Iazzoni to try to define where we are. Where my [00:12:12] problem is and where I'm having some struggles is understanding what our end [00:12:18] game is for the Hacienda and I really want the answer but I would [00:12:26] really like for it to be a community answer. We feel like we've got a pretty [00:12:31] good idea what it is, but at the end of the day, do we want to own it? Do we want [00:12:39] to be a partner in it? Do we want to sell it? And I think that needs to be part and [00:12:47] parcel of the strategy moving forward. The architects love it, the [00:12:55] engineers love it, but for me sometimes when people come to see us or [00:13:01] they ask me on the street, what's your game plan? What are you gonna do? And then [00:13:08] I hearken back as I did during that last agenda item, it's been four years since [00:13:15] we cleaned it up. Don't get me wrong, we had a development partner, they didn't [00:13:19] play out. Good, bad, or indifferent, we rode that horse, we are where we are today, [00:13:24] but I really want to know what's on the citizens minds, because [00:13:32] obviously it's a non-performing asset, we've written it down, and now we've [00:13:38] gotten state money invested in it. We're going after more state money which has [00:13:42] strings attached to it of what you can and can't do, and if somebody brings us [00:13:48] one of those tax projects, it's really gonna be, it's really gonna make the [00:13:58] overall operation of that facility longer. That's just I want to see how the [00:14:02] tours go again, I want to see that, but we collectively represent our [00:14:09] constituents out there, and at a certain point in time we need to sell something, [00:14:15] we need to move something along, because you know we've been pointed out that our [00:14:22] real estate acumen isn't really great, and I don't think the city ought to be [00:14:27] in the real estate business, I don't want to be a partner with somebody if I don't [00:14:30] have to be. That's the reason I like the Rosners, because they brought money to [00:14:34] the table, but because everybody else that showed up in the last year wants [00:14:39] our tax incremental financing, or they want a deduct or whatever, and we're [00:14:43] setting that platform for everybody else. So I'm just wanting to make sure [00:14:49] that we have a collective endgame for us on council now, and moving forward, [00:14:57] because everybody thinks that's the track... [00:15:00] generator. I think there's multiple traffic generators in the city of New [00:15:04] New Port Richey. It isn't the only thing on on the block. So Mr. Mayor, I appreciate [00:15:10] you letting me touch back this but I wonder if I know that I had been [00:15:15] visiting with the city attorney to say if we wanted to have a ballot initiative [00:15:20] how would you go about it? What would it say? What are we asking the question so [00:15:27] that we understand from a collective citizen's body what it is that we are [00:15:33] going to do because I don't want us to get to the point where we missed the [00:15:37] forest for the one big tree and the diamond in the middle of our city. I want [00:15:43] to be able to balance all of those and we've got other charges that are coming [00:15:47] up and I just want to make sure that we have a collective understanding of what [00:15:51] we want to do. So that's my question. I appreciate that Mr. Phillips and of [00:15:58] course for the benefit of everybody that's watching this is the only [00:16:00] opportunity we have to discuss this sort of thing. I'm not sure that I'm in [00:16:10] favor of doing a ballot measure asking because it has the potential to tie our [00:16:20] hands. My concern is not so much whether or not we fix it up and occupy it or [00:16:34] lease it or we sell it outright so much as is my concern is the the endgame if [00:16:42] you will which is the place is occupied in an active part of our downtown again. [00:16:48] How we get to that I'm not sure I'm as set on one particular course of action [00:16:58] to get there as another. My sense in talking to folks about the [00:17:07] Hacienda is that there is an intense personal connection by a significant [00:17:15] number of people in the community and I have a feeling that if you do a ballot [00:17:23] referenda that the people that are most tightly associated with their love [00:17:34] of the Hacienda are going to show up and they are going to say in probably no [00:17:38] uncertain terms that that building needs to remain in public ownership [00:17:44] forever. I'm not sure that's necessarily the long-term best result and the [00:17:54] problem is if we get a referenda that it could go either way. If in going [00:18:04] down and continuing to fix the place up if it becomes apparent that that [00:18:12] probably isn't the best way to move forward then it will put every one of us [00:18:19] in the position of voting in direct opposition to something that the [00:18:25] citizens were overwhelmingly of one mind about. I can give you a good [00:18:34] example of that in the not too distant past at some point the city had a [00:18:42] referenda question on whether or not alcohol should be allowed in any of the [00:18:48] parks. The citizens of the city of New Port Richey were my understanding [00:18:56] fairly adamant that the answer to that question was no and then the City [00:19:03] Council went and allowed alcoholic beverages in Sims Park. I still [00:19:12] wonder whether we did the right thing there but it puts the council [00:19:19] in an awkward position. If say the referenda goes through and as I [00:19:26] expect it would be overwhelming in favor of keeping it in public use then what [00:19:31] happens if Mario gets us a live one that says we'd like to buy this and make [00:19:36] something great out of it? We've tied our hands. [00:19:39] Can I just jump in here real quick? In preparation for this to provide [00:19:44] information for council in regard to this matter I've secured the Lee-Marine [00:19:48] lease which is historic building down in downtown Tampa in the narrative on [00:19:53] that. That's a 66 year lease is what that is and then the entity that leases [00:20:00] that facility to operate that pays a payment to the city of Tampa and then [00:20:03] there's a renewal option on that. I'm also familiar and maybe attorneys [00:20:07] familiar with this is I used to do SBA 503 lending around the airports. [00:20:12] Typically we run into that same dynamic where at some point the airport might [00:20:16] want to expand and so therefore the land isn't really sold. The basic is a 99 [00:20:22] year lease is what occurs there. That's an area that maybe we'd be able to look [00:20:26] at in terms of a happy medium between the possible live one that's out there [00:20:32] and the stewardship of the city of this asset. So that's those are the things [00:20:37] that I'm familiar with at this point in time and information I'll be bringing [00:20:41] forward to the city manager for further consideration. Thank you. [00:20:46] I'm not fond of the referendum issue for lots of [00:20:53] reasons. First and foremost I believe that you know we are representing our [00:20:57] constituents and and hearing from them and and their input is certainly [00:21:01] terribly important to us and I think that we are always welcomed their [00:21:06] comments and their suggestions and their thoughts and opinions. But I I too think [00:21:11] that putting it out in a referendum I don't know it's just I don't I don't [00:21:18] think that I'd want to go that route. However with that said I think it is in [00:21:23] very important for us personally to be schooled on how other cities have [00:21:28] addressed this and what would you know what are pros and cons for either way. As [00:21:33] a Main Street City because we are dealing with historic preservation you [00:21:37] know we have a wonderful opportunity to speak to other Main Street cities that [00:21:42] are dealing with historic buildings and I know that some of them have been very [00:21:45] successful in renovating them, either owning them, purchasing them, leasing them [00:21:51] whatever. So that would be my concern that we know you know that we learn what [00:21:59] what are our options and what are the you know the pros and cons of each each [00:22:04] each side. So that's kind of where I would I would like to land on this and [00:22:09] with that said I just wondered what the where we are in the process of you know [00:22:17] with the building. I know that we unfortunately it didn't work out with [00:22:20] the folks that had the money to do it and we were in predicaments where we had [00:22:25] folks with lots of different ideas and you know no money to back it up. So it's [00:22:32] it's a financial challenge to take a historic property and to bring it back [00:22:38] to life and I truly believe that the best value for the city is to bring that [00:22:43] back as the original property. My goal as economic development director has been [00:22:49] trying to make the market for the investment capital that occurs there [00:22:53] and by pursuing these historic preservation grant so that some point we [00:22:59] build enough capital investment. The real value that's occurred over the past [00:23:04] years is to find the process in which how we get there and we have a [00:23:09] tremendous amount of architectural engineering work in this building. When [00:23:13] we started this back in 2013 you know we were told the beams and over the lobby [00:23:18] were 18 inches wide and they stopped floor couldn't support a hotel up and [00:23:24] that drove your negotiations with the Rosners to say look it you're gonna have [00:23:28] to weld those beams if you'd be able to put floors up there. Then we get Mr. [00:23:32] Bender and we have Mark Easter who these are individuals that specialize in [00:23:37] historic buildings and Mark Easter basically was able to say no those beams [00:23:41] are 20 inches and they do support that and that changes the whole dynamic in [00:23:46] terms of you know how we approach the development of property who we secure [00:23:52] over the you know I have quite a number of people that have demonstrated a [00:23:57] strong interest in submitting to the RP which is really good and economic times [00:24:03] are much better and so you know to you know to answer your question is it's [00:24:11] really there's a certain rate of return that the investor is looking on that if [00:24:15] it's a lease arrangements have to look at that dynamic what their rate of [00:24:18] return is what we're kind of getting from the Gibbs group is that the you [00:24:26] have a very nice high-end restaurant and this this team really understood the [00:24:33] position this property this time around I think in terms of what needs to be [00:24:36] there and what the room rates would be they think the room rates have the [00:24:39] potential being much higher because they're looking at the whole Tampa Bay [00:24:43] region in terms of a given example they count the number of bed days and then [00:24:50] they look at the number of days that the Hacienda can be at capacity and with a [00:24:53] large number of events that we have in the park that's something they look at [00:24:57] and they know that if there's a hundred thousand bed days that maybe four or [00:25:02] five percent of that market would actually select a Hacienda over another [00:25:07] hotel in the area that's the kind of research that this team is doing right [00:25:10] now on this and by having that information we're able to convey to the [00:25:17] much stronger investment capital knows how to do these things you know where [00:25:22] you know right now we have an estimate from vendor that says that the project [00:25:26] is 5.6 million when we're through these processes well close to 2 million in you [00:25:31] know so we're at 3.6 basically in terms of what the investment capital would be [00:25:35] when we started with a previous developer which a much higher number so [00:25:40] the goal basically is to close that gap between what it costs to renovate [00:25:46] historic property and what the investment capital can is in that [00:25:52] property make it profitable for an individual and I think as we continue to [00:25:55] move forward in this process like put the balconies in and continue to I mean [00:26:01] we've significantly elevated the stature of this property statewide you [00:26:05] know some of the best historic architects have heard the city of [00:26:09] Newport-Richard present on this property right now and I think that's really [00:26:14] important because for those architects to work they need to go out and find the [00:26:17] developers so again it's like any business you're trying to build your [00:26:21] customer base to a point where you can finally get those wins and I think we're [00:26:24] going in the right direction with this. Mr. Zoney, one of the questions that [00:26:29] Deputy Mayor Phillips made earlier was a comment or question about when we'll [00:26:36] see the construction fencing come down. Yeah I've been anticipating that one [00:26:41] actually I met with Jan Ash briefly to give me a sense of perspective in terms [00:26:46] of how we can mitigate that you know some of the things that we've kind of [00:26:50] talked about was you know once we get the windows and doors and we certainly [00:26:57] can kind of bring that fence down quite a bit and maybe on the back side maybe [00:27:02] move a little bit closer to the building but I've asked Jan Ash to get you know [00:27:07] to give me a sense of perspective as to how we kind of do that but that's [00:27:10] something we're looking at very closely because I agree with you I think it's [00:27:12] really important that we get closer to the building we find the resolution to [00:27:17] that and I'll be talking and working with the city manager going forward on [00:27:20] that. Mr. Starkey. Sure I would agree that putting any kind of referendum on [00:27:27] the ballot would potentially tie the city's hands and it could also tie the [00:27:30] hands of a potential investor. I think that's a negotiation that we make [00:27:35] whether we lease it to an investor or sell it to an investor with that [00:27:40] potential investor if the right one comes along and it is frustrating. I [00:27:44] understand where you're coming from four years ago we were torn it and cleaned it [00:27:48] up and but you know the bottom line is we're not talking about a strip plaza [00:27:52] here we're not talking about the travel in we're talking about a boutique [00:27:57] historic hotel that was built in the 1920s and it's a very very limited [00:28:00] market as to someone that's gonna want to come along and invest millions of [00:28:04] dollars into it and make it work. I truly believe my heart that it is going to [00:28:09] happen I wish that we could all hop in a little time machine and jump ahead five [00:28:12] years seven years and see where we're at but we don't have that luxury so at this [00:28:17] point you know I have very candid conversations with Mario I feel like [00:28:21] very very entitled and fortunate that I can call him up and go tour the Hacienda [00:28:26] with somebody or go you know do another tour and talk about this and that [00:28:29] basically whenever we want I really really enjoy being able to do that [00:28:34] another thing about putting a referendum on the ballot a lot of people are [00:28:37] passionate about the Hacienda that don't live in the city limits they're [00:28:40] passionate about our hometown area but they may not have the option to vote [00:28:43] that's another thing that came to my mind but at this point Mario talks to a [00:28:48] lot of people and he doesn't come report to us all individually report to council [00:28:52] hey this guy said this this lady said this I have a really good lead this way [00:28:55] it's too big a project to do that so I think he's he and representing us as a [00:29:01] city like doing what you did today going to Tallahassee are making the right [00:29:05] moves in the right direction at this point keep you know keep try to keep the [00:29:10] city cost to a minimal I know that minimum I know that's a tough thing to [00:29:13] say after what we just voted on but you know what if we do get the another grant [00:29:17] for $750,000 how much more marketable can we make that starting next July to a [00:29:21] potential investor it's you know there's a lot of unanswered questions out there [00:29:26] but I honestly feel that the right person the right firm is going to come [00:29:29] along I believe we're putting the right pieces of the puzzle I know I use that [00:29:34] term a lot in place with Main Street landings with with what we now are [00:29:40] to the residences at Orange Lake just driving to the meeting today I mean [00:29:44] honestly I'm driving down so I always try to leave a couple of minutes early [00:29:48] and get a little new poetry inspiration on my way of the meetings I'll drive [00:29:51] around downtown and some side streets and you know there's houses that are [00:29:55] being improved and fixed up currently close to our downtown core just over the [00:29:59] last [00:30:00] to three months that were not that way the last time I drove to you know two or three months ago. [00:30:05] It's happening it's happening on a subtle basis but we're making the right moves I think to to [00:30:10] bring this this downtown corridor where it needs to go and at this point I just say stay the course [00:30:16] do what we can to get government assistance to to continue to invest in the Hacienda. I don't I [00:30:22] don't want to do an RFQ or RFP too early and then make it look like no one's no one's interested. [00:30:28] I think that could be a downfall as well but it it is frustrating. I wish we we had a like I said [00:30:33] a magic globe where we can look into it and know exactly what the final outcome is going to be but [00:30:37] it's a very very unique project that I'm very very passionate that I want it done [00:30:43] correctly too. I don't want some someone coming along and just saying you know I got money let's [00:30:48] I'm going to buy it and then just have it be mediocre. It's you know I want that grandeur [00:30:54] whether it's a hotel or not when you walk in that downtown area if it's a if it's a you know [00:30:59] upscale restaurant or microbrewery or so many different ideas I've heard thrown around for the [00:31:04] downstairs area of the Hacienda that it has that unique feeling and that we have that to to kind [00:31:09] of base our future that building on for decades and decades and decades to come. So it is frustrating [00:31:15] but at this point I just say keep keep what you're doing Mario keep making the contacts you're making [00:31:20] and and I'll support you. Mr. Phelps I greatly appreciate you bringing this up as a as a topic. [00:31:28] I'm not going to apologize for it. No I am not apologizing because because at the end of the day [00:31:34] if we talk collectively outside of this body we get in more trouble than we really want to get up [00:31:40] to and if somebody hears that Bill Phillips said this or Rob Marlowe said that or Jeff Starkey or [00:31:47] you know Judy DiBella Thomas said that then all of a sudden they say well I wonder if they're [00:31:51] doing a little side negotiate before they show up and this is really the only time we get to talk [00:31:57] and though Mr. Iazzoni talks about a 3.6 million dollar investment there really is you get you have [00:32:04] to factor in that 2.4 million of initial investment to buy the asset and that it's sat there and it [00:32:11] hasn't generated things so but at the same time if we don't talk these things out in the public [00:32:18] and talk about all the advantages and all the things that have been going on then we back [00:32:24] ourselves into a real tight window and then we're reactive we're not proactive so to me it was [00:32:31] important that I that one one that I had a thought I had an opportunity to meet with the city attorney [00:32:37] to talk about what the moving parts are because I don't have a dog in the fight I'm a council [00:32:43] member I just want to make sure at the end of the day that that investment leads to other investments [00:32:51] and that if those come at a different time or at the same time that we have collectively thought [00:32:57] about what's on the table now and what shows up and that's what scares me when you're when you're [00:33:04] when you're fighting or you're trying to allocate the same dollar because it's only 100 pennies [00:33:13] and at the end of the day you can't put it three or four different ways so I'm just like I said [00:33:18] I really just wanted to get a conscious because we're going to have tours in it you're finishing [00:33:22] up what you're doing we just went through a budget process with it to be because be honest with you [00:33:28] that half a million dollars in the CRA if we could utilize that at other target points [00:33:35] on what the CRA is really all about I think collectively that has done like Mr. Starkey says [00:33:43] the neighborhoods have started to come around they've taken old houses down they're building [00:33:47] new things so we're seeing that that that that ripple but of course yes one of my virtues is [00:33:54] not patience and it's been four years and I can't apologize for that either because because at the [00:34:02] end of the day it is an asset I just want to make sure that collectively we're asking as many hard [00:34:09] tough questions so that when we get asked the tough questions from the citizens we've done [00:34:14] our homework to make sure we do the best deal absolutely no apology is necessary I think you [00:34:19] did us a service by by broaching the subject it's something that we need to chat about [00:34:25] Mrs. Manns I would suggest that if we have another one of these evenings where there's a fairly light [00:34:34] city council agenda that we might want to have a CRA meeting much like we're doing now where we can [00:34:41] we can chat about this sort of stuff and it doesn't even if there's not a formal item on the [00:34:48] the agenda other than a report from from Mary on where are we on not only the Hacienda but the other [00:34:56] the other properties and give us a chance to have this discussion in the sunshine where [00:35:02] where we need to have it yes sir Mr. Mayor thank you Mr. Mayor thank you and with that [00:35:09] let's if there's nothing else on the CRA I'd like to go to communications and reports and [00:35:16] Deputy Mayor Phillips you're you're right I gave up my time at the last meeting due to fatigue and [00:35:22] just the the overall time that we'd spent on the budget and then like five days later we're back [00:35:28] here for a hour and a half meeting and it was a pretty long and lengthy items but I do have [00:35:35] I do have a few things today one I was I was hoping as Mr. Starkey had mentioned and we had [00:35:43] some people here earlier that were talking about the noise ordinance I'd really hope that we would [00:35:50] would have had the audit report discussion for tonight and my only analogy is I really didn't [00:35:58] care if it was the Clint Eastwood movie the good the bad and the ugly I really just wanted to [00:36:03] understand where we are in the audit process because we that really is going to be driving [00:36:08] driving us in the collective next 30, 45, 60 days and it's real important to know where we've [00:36:15] finished up and kind of where we're going also as of today from a letter that was sent I really [00:36:21] would like the status update on the illegal seawall at 5511 Drinker Drive because there's a [00:36:27] lot of people in the city that have seawalls that are looking at this because of the way it was put [00:36:33] into place and the and the elements we had to go through to exercise the rights and today the 18th [00:36:45] was supposed to be the day that it's either torn down we're going to go tear it down whatever so [00:36:52] that's where that is had the opportunity on Thursday last week to sit in on the announcement [00:37:01] about the hometown network launch press conference and I've touched base with some [00:37:07] people outside of the city not only with Tampa Bay Multimedia but with Bill Rasmussen being on point [00:37:14] and Mr. Rasmussen's history as being one of the key founders of ESPN that this platform is really [00:37:22] going to be able to net some traction because that's partially what ESPN did when they came on [00:37:30] early on was to highlight high school football high school sports and all that if you see Chris [00:37:37] Fowler on TV who's elevated his career he actually had a segment for a number of years where he used [00:37:43] to go around for the high schools and and this platform I hope will do that because at the end [00:37:48] of the day if they would go into the Rivergate district and take down some of that back area and [00:37:53] turn it into production and some of those things that would be good to do also the West Pasco [00:38:02] Chamber of Commerce has their West Pasco magazine which has different articles some written by Bill [00:38:09] Stevens formerly of the Tampa St. Pete Times now the Tampa Times Tampa Bay Times but it does [00:38:16] highlight West Pasco and it really is a snapshot of West Pasco not Land O'Lakes not East Pasco and [00:38:26] I think it's been done very well I'd love to see a link from our website into it as well as some [00:38:32] additional blurbs in our Facebook postings about how people can get to that because right on the [00:38:37] front page is a picture of the splash pads with kids playing in it and I think that that sets the [00:38:43] trend right there and Ms. Mann's couple of her recent management reports especially one with [00:38:51] the park and rec master plan I'm sure the mayor might speak of the trolley ride he got to take [00:38:56] recently on that but in in her overview she has asked that we assist in trying to get people [00:39:04] on the committee that can offer differing points of view that can offer information that we don't [00:39:14] hear on a regular basis early on I propose that maybe we have the ability to help recruit two or [00:39:21] three so it would be a 30 or a 40 person group instead of sending out meeting notices and only [00:39:30] the same handful shows up and then when you get ready to start it they come in and say I didn't [00:39:34] know anything about it so it's kind of one of those things I'd love to see it kind of [00:39:37] over communicated the Gulf High Gulf High is one of the few high schools in the state of Florida [00:39:46] that still has a homecoming parade through their downtown and to me that's pretty neat [00:39:52] it's really neat because it really goes back and shows that there's a community feel here and [00:40:00] they're going to have theirs starting at two o'clock on Friday it's not heavily attended [00:40:05] it's just a way to come through downtown just one of those neat things that [00:40:10] New Port Richey needs to continue to do and I look forward to being part of that on Friday [00:40:17] we've got the preliminary information about the soft openings and the stuff about Bifo Brady's [00:40:23] would love to get a better idea of when they're going to really roll out the red carpet and make [00:40:28] everybody happy that they're here and that we can welcome them appropriately to downtown New Port Richey saw the initial trees being planted on the median improvements on highway 19 [00:40:44] and I believe at two o'clock on Saturday don't quote me but I believe it's two o'clock on [00:40:52] Saturday there'll be a ribbon cutting for Sips the business downtown which is obviously one of [00:40:59] about five or six new businesses that has opened throughout the city of New Port Richey and [00:41:06] obviously to say hello and to make them welcome and then finally in a couple of meetings that [00:41:15] I've had or breakfasts and dinners or lunches the question still comes back to hours of operations [00:41:23] for a number of our entities in the city most specifically the library and the rec center [00:41:29] and I think if we have to push the envelope to whatever we have to do I think we need to be [00:41:39] open longer and more often to the public even during these times of uncertainty with [00:41:47] things that are going on with each facility but at the end of the day [00:41:53] we collectively and that's a big we collectively need to do a better job at making all that happen [00:42:04] and Mr. Mayor I believe that's it thank you very much. Thank you. Councilman. Okay well today I [00:42:14] was reminded that Mike Youngman from the hospital he's celebrating his third year here and it got [00:42:20] me to thinking just how in unbelievable fast-tracked things were done at that hospital [00:42:29] and they are fast-tracking I don't know if any of you have driven over there but the relocation of [00:42:36] their main entrance and the enhancements to the ER building but they anticipate that those will [00:42:43] both be done by December the 1st. Now in light of what we were just talking about that we had [00:42:48] this phenomenal historic building on Main Street we've got the Main Street landings project we've [00:42:52] got B4 Brady's opening we've got a hospital that has invested over 100 million dollars into that [00:42:58] hospital ultimately into our city and that speaks volumes I think as to what we can expect that [00:43:05] return will be. It's very upsetting to know that we still have issues of folks living under the [00:43:13] bridge at the boat ramp and that there's that whole issue that I mentioned in Ms. Mann's yesterday [00:43:20] about the feeding issues that take place on Lafayette that is our main road and you know [00:43:28] I'm at a loss as to know what how you know how we can address it but I know that that is really [00:43:33] something that is troublesome you know in in light of the big picture that we're trying to create here [00:43:39] how to address those those issues you know to be compassionate but on the same token to [00:43:46] to understand that this is the economy of our city it depends on you know the look of it. [00:43:55] I want to thank Mario for his incredible responsiveness to anything that I send you [00:44:03] the gentleman who is interested a prospective developer or investor or whomever how quickly [00:44:08] you responded however quickly he responded and it just makes it just makes the process so much [00:44:13] easier because you just never know and happenstance happen to be at a ribbon cutting and chatting [00:44:19] with someone and and anyway thank you for that very prompt responsiveness and that speaks well [00:44:26] to the overall enthusiasm that people have for what's going on in the city when they can get [00:44:32] such great responses quickly and I find that to be to be the case with just about anybody that [00:44:38] I deal with on city in the city whether it's a question to to police chief or city manager [00:44:45] I haven't bugged the fire chief and about anything yet but I really do appreciate that and it really [00:44:50] does speak so well of you know we just mentioned today that we've got city government you know [00:44:57] really and truly it is it is [00:45:00] It's so wonderful to live in a small city [00:45:03] that we have this type of government, [00:45:05] that people can come in, they can share. [00:45:07] How many times we have had people [00:45:09] who are thinking that they don't have a voice [00:45:12] in the community, and they're able to meet you [00:45:15] in publics and share a problem that they have [00:45:18] with a phone call. [00:45:19] And it's not to say that we are magicians, [00:45:22] but it's just that we just know the person to call [00:45:25] and things are addressed, not necessarily, [00:45:31] the gentleman that came tonight about the noise ordinance, [00:45:34] not necessarily overnight, [00:45:36] because I applaud my compatriots here [00:45:42] in being deliberate and being thoughtful [00:45:46] about the decisions that we have to make [00:45:48] because we know that they're going to live on [00:45:51] long beyond when we're here. [00:45:56] I think that was it. [00:45:57] I had the pleasure of living along the parade route [00:46:00] and it was just a delight all those years [00:46:01] to be able to encourage the Gulf High Parade. [00:46:05] I will be out of town Friday. [00:46:07] I won't be able to either be in the parade [00:46:10] or encourage them on, [00:46:13] but it is really a wonderful hometown event [00:46:16] to be able to have the high school parade [00:46:19] and do the homecoming. [00:46:20] So all the best to them. [00:46:22] Share that with them. [00:46:23] I agree. [00:46:24] What a cool event. [00:46:25] I was in that four years in a row. [00:46:27] Not a huge turnout, but you feel pretty cool [00:46:29] when you're in high school, [00:46:29] riding around on a convertible with all your friends around. [00:46:33] As far as the homeless feedings go, [00:46:36] can we as a city maybe reach out to Mr. Pridgen [00:46:38] and see if he's aware of that's happening [00:46:40] on Sunday mornings? [00:46:42] And if so, see if we have his authority [00:46:45] to discontinue it from happening on his property? [00:46:49] Can we do that? [00:46:50] I can do that. [00:46:51] Councilman Starkey, I have a meeting with him next week. [00:46:52] Perfect. [00:46:53] NFL games start at one on Sundays, [00:46:55] and B for Brady's gonna be opening, [00:46:58] and some people might be getting there early after church, [00:47:00] of course, and probably not what we want them to see [00:47:04] when visiting our brand new sports bar [00:47:07] slash family restaurant right there in our downtown. [00:47:11] As far as North Bay goes, [00:47:12] I just did the behind-the-scenes scrub store. [00:47:14] I know many of you have done that. [00:47:16] I had no idea we had such a state-of-the-art [00:47:18] hospital facility right here in our downtown. [00:47:23] The IC unit has virtual nursing now, [00:47:26] where they have nurses from a standard station [00:47:28] like in the Tampa Bay area, [00:47:29] monitoring the patients with a camera, [00:47:32] and they can look up and see each other, [00:47:34] and they can just tap of a button, [00:47:36] contact their on-duty nurse if need be. [00:47:38] It's really just an incredible facility. [00:47:42] The new rehab clinic is just state-of-the-art, [00:47:44] and it's absolutely, [00:47:45] my dad went through that when he was a stroke survivor, [00:47:48] and although the rehab itself was phenomenal, [00:47:51] it wasn't very welcoming, and it is today. [00:47:54] If you haven't stopped by to check out [00:47:55] the new rehab facility, you need to. [00:47:57] It's absolutely incredible. [00:48:01] I want to make sure we're letting these people, [00:48:03] well, not these people, that doesn't sound very nice, [00:48:05] does it, these organizations [00:48:08] that are running events in our park, [00:48:11] they need to be 100% clear, [00:48:14] as does everybody that's setting up [00:48:16] and taking down for their events, [00:48:18] whether it's Greater New Porichy Main Street, [00:48:20] Chamber of Commerce, Chaska, whoever, [00:48:23] that during their events, the park is not closed. [00:48:26] I've had three different people come up to me [00:48:28] since the Bike Week event, [00:48:31] one of which is a young lady who's a friend of mine. [00:48:34] She lives right off of Orange Lake [00:48:36] and jogs through Sims Park every morning, [00:48:39] and someone that was setting up for the bike event [00:48:42] cut her off while she was jogging through the park [00:48:44] and said, she's not allowed to be in here [00:48:46] because they're setting up for Bike Week, [00:48:48] and the park's closed. [00:48:50] And two other people told me the same thing. [00:48:53] They weren't jogging, but they were told [00:48:55] they were not allowed to be in the park. [00:48:56] They were setting up for Bike Week. [00:48:58] That can't happen, that's unacceptable. [00:49:01] I don't use that term too often, [00:49:03] but that particular occurrence is completely unacceptable. [00:49:07] It's not their park, it's our park, [00:49:08] it's the city's park, it's the city residents' park. [00:49:10] It does not shut down during any event. [00:49:13] The only time it shuts down is a portion of the park [00:49:15] shuts down during the country music concert [00:49:18] during Chaska, which is a paid event, [00:49:20] and the reggae music festival [00:49:23] or the Caribbean music festival, [00:49:25] they shut down part of it as well for a paid concert event. [00:49:28] Other than that, unless the president's there, [00:49:29] it's not shut down. [00:49:30] So everybody that sets up or takes down [00:49:34] any kind of event in the park needs to be aware of that. [00:49:38] And to piggyback on that, I'll be honest with you, [00:49:41] I don't read these alcohol special beverage event permits [00:49:44] from cover to cover, and I breeze through them. [00:49:50] We need to make sure that these people know, [00:49:53] I shouldn't say these people, [00:49:54] sounds so horrible, doesn't it, [00:49:56] that these event organizers know and understand [00:49:59] what is expected of them after their event's over. [00:50:03] Because I'll tell you what, Bike Week's cool, [00:50:06] I'm not a biker, I mean, Cote d'Ivoire Bike Fest, [00:50:09] a lot of, I mean, it's a unique event, [00:50:11] I'll give it that much, [00:50:12] but our park took an absolute beating, [00:50:15] an absolute beating from that event. [00:50:17] I was there Saturday morning for [00:50:18] a tour of the Hacienda with Mario. [00:50:20] I was there Wednesday, again, [00:50:22] before that meeting that Ms. Phillips talked about [00:50:24] at the business incubator, wasn't that Wednesday? [00:50:27] Tuesday or Wednesday, right? [00:50:28] 13th. [00:50:29] 13th? [00:50:30] There were still crushed beer cans [00:50:31] in the Gloria Swanson parking lot. [00:50:33] I walked through the park Monday morning [00:50:35] after they broke it down. [00:50:36] We had cigarette butts all through the mulch [00:50:39] outside the play area, trampled plants, [00:50:41] and the sidewalks were absolutely disgusting. [00:50:44] Have we cleaned that? [00:50:45] It looked like it did. [00:50:46] We had. [00:50:47] We had, yeah. [00:50:48] They should, whatever event organizer is running this event [00:50:52] should pay us to pressure wash the sidewalks, [00:50:55] should pay us if we have to plant new plants, [00:50:57] should pay us to pay our staff [00:50:59] to go pick up cigarette butts and beer cans. [00:51:02] It's insane to me what the park, [00:51:04] what it looked like after their cleanup. [00:51:06] And to be honest with you, [00:51:07] they probably didn't do all that bad a job [00:51:09] compared to what it looked like on Sunday afternoon, [00:51:12] but it didn't look like anything [00:51:13] like it looked like prior to the event. [00:51:15] And I want to be sure that these event organizers [00:51:17] understand whether it's in the form of deposit, [00:51:21] but they need to understand what's expected of them [00:51:24] to get the park looking like it looked [00:51:26] prior to their event, no matter what event it is. [00:51:28] Because it took a beating, [00:51:29] and I'd be embarrassed to take out of town family [00:51:32] or company to the playground [00:51:34] the Monday morning after bike week. [00:51:37] It would have been completely embarrassing. [00:51:39] This is our city park. [00:51:40] That we just completed within 12 months. [00:51:43] So we need to be sure they understand [00:51:44] what's expected of them after the event's over. [00:51:47] And that's all I have tonight. [00:51:49] I had. [00:51:50] I'm sorry, if I could just insert one thing very quickly. [00:51:52] Because I think we need to remember [00:51:55] when other events are going on, [00:51:56] what Jeff just shared about specifically this event, [00:51:59] because it's troublesome to paint all the organizations [00:52:03] with that same brush. [00:52:04] And the reason I say that is, [00:52:06] just as a former Main Streeter, [00:52:10] I do believe that there was another level [00:52:14] of concern and care, [00:52:16] because there were so many of the folks [00:52:18] that participated in that as volunteers [00:52:20] that understood exactly what you're saying. [00:52:23] And so I know that there were times [00:52:25] that there were things that needed to be addressed, [00:52:28] but I just don't like it when we are going forward [00:52:32] in another three months, [00:52:33] and there's another event on the table, [00:52:34] and we're painting one other group. [00:52:39] Let's be very specific. [00:52:41] I think that it's very important [00:52:43] that we address the issue that just took place [00:52:45] with this organization, and help them understand. [00:52:47] And yes, going forward, let everybody else understand, [00:52:50] but let us understand this was this organization, [00:52:53] and we need to address them immediately after the event. [00:52:56] I had to pick up partially empty cups of stale beer [00:53:04] the week after the event, [00:53:07] because they were sitting on the sidewalks [00:53:08] right in front of my store. [00:53:12] I did also get a similar complaint [00:53:16] about being prohibited from going in the park. [00:53:21] They had indicated that they were walking their dog, [00:53:24] and a rent-a-cop came up and said, [00:53:26] you've got to get out of here, [00:53:27] we're gonna call the police. [00:53:28] And quite frankly, I wish they had called the police, [00:53:31] because the rent-a-cop was out of line. [00:53:35] I did take the trolley ride. [00:53:37] Saw some parks that I haven't been around in a while, [00:53:41] including one on the west side of US-19. [00:53:46] It's not very big, and it has a drainage swale [00:53:49] that runs diagonally from the northwest corner [00:53:52] to the southeast corner, and it breaks it up [00:53:55] in such a fashion that the park is almost unusable. [00:54:00] I'd like to suggest that maybe Public Works [00:54:03] could figure out what it would cost [00:54:04] to put a culvert through there [00:54:07] and close, fill in that drainage swale, [00:54:10] because you'd probably triple the size of the park [00:54:13] if you could get rid of this monster drainage ditch [00:54:16] that's running literally diagonally [00:54:18] through this little tiny park. [00:54:20] We did also see the park at the north end of Astor, [00:54:25] and some of Elaine's Parks and Rec Board [00:54:32] realized for the first time, [00:54:33] the park we were talking about, [00:54:35] and it has come up at city council meetings, [00:54:38] with all of the yard debris dumped all over it. [00:54:44] So it was good. [00:54:47] I've gotten my first complaint [00:54:48] about the trees and the medians. [00:54:50] Somebody complained because their sign is being blocked. [00:54:53] I gave them Robert Rivera's name, told him to call him. [00:54:59] The curbs are being poured at Bifo Brady's, [00:55:02] so asphalt can't be far behind. [00:55:05] And the concrete pouring truck was there [00:55:08] as I was coming to the meeting tonight. [00:55:13] Went to Tampa Bay Water on Monday morning. [00:55:17] That was an interesting meeting. [00:55:20] For those of you that are not aware, [00:55:22] some of Tampa Bay Water's wells are only a few miles [00:55:26] from the big sinkhole in Polk County. [00:55:30] They're in Hillsboro, but they're now having to monitor [00:55:34] and watch for the radiation plume [00:55:38] that's in the water that fell through the sinkhole. [00:55:41] So far, none of the monitoring wells, [00:55:45] either on the company's property [00:55:49] or the monitoring wells owned by Tampa Bay Water, [00:55:53] have had any indication that the stuff is moving. [00:55:57] The way the aquifer works, [00:55:58] it goes from east to west there, [00:56:01] so it's probably just a matter of time [00:56:04] before they're gonna start seeing [00:56:06] some of that contamination hit those wells [00:56:09] in eastern Hillsboro County. [00:56:13] It doesn't affect us directly, [00:56:15] but it is something just to be aware of. [00:56:20] I believe the homecoming parade is, [00:56:22] Bill, correct me if I'm wrong, Thursday, not Friday? [00:56:25] I thought it was Friday. [00:56:26] I don't know if it's Thursday. [00:56:28] You might want to check it, maybe Thursday. [00:56:31] Actually, if you called the office, [00:56:32] I think Carolyn's got a flyer for it [00:56:34] on the front door of our place. [00:56:37] Yeah, let us know. [00:56:38] I think it may be Thursday as opposed to Friday afternoon. [00:56:44] So if anybody wants to go check it out. [00:56:48] And with that, I appreciate you guys. [00:56:54] One, Ms. Smith, congratulations on your zombie run. [00:57:01] It was really neat to see the pictures that were posted [00:57:05] and know that that really bright yellow shirt and stuff [00:57:10] is not my color wheel, just to be clear. [00:57:12] But it was neat to see that. [00:57:14] I thought the pictures were well done. [00:57:16] Judy did a nice job in getting those out there. [00:57:19] Also, so we have equal time and equal billing, [00:57:21] I believe Thursday night is the band book concert? [00:57:25] Yes. [00:57:26] The last of the series, is that correct? [00:57:29] Can I get a little 411 about that? [00:57:31] Because I don't want to give out bad information, Ms. Scott. [00:57:35] Yeah, it's going to start at 7.30. [00:57:37] And the group that's playing is Holy Miss Molly, [00:57:41] which I hear is going to be pretty unplugged [00:57:43] and a great band. [00:57:45] And as always, we're encouraging people [00:57:47] to bring books to swap, and they've been really nice. [00:57:52] So we're considering moving forward [00:57:54] with another series of its kind. [00:57:56] We just don't know yet what the location will be. [00:57:59] Would there be shaved ice? [00:58:01] Depends on the time of year, [00:58:02] but you think people would be buying shaved ice [00:58:05] in December? [00:58:06] Well, I'm thinking about Thursday night. [00:58:08] Oh, Thursday night? [00:58:09] Yes, absolutely. [00:58:10] Okay. [00:58:11] Yeah, we'll try not to schedule a council meeting, [00:58:13] but we had to get the budget approved, [00:58:15] otherwise we'd have been there at 7 o'clock. [00:58:18] First things first. [00:58:20] Absolutely. [00:58:23] City Attorney. [00:58:24] I have nothing. [00:58:26] City Manager. [00:58:27] I have nothing to report this evening. [00:58:28] In that case, I would entertain a motion to adjourn.

   This text was generated automatically from the meeting video. It is not a verbatim or official record. For exact wording, consult the video or the city clerk.

4. 4Adjournment▶ 58:30