On the agenda

1. 1Call to Order - Roll Call▶ 0:00
2. 2

   2022 Marine Pkwy and US Hwy 19 Multi-Use Bridge Feasibility Analysis

   discussed

   Staff and consultant SM&E (presented by Angela/Angelo Rau, with engineer Kevin Fisher on phone) reviewed a feasibility analysis for a multi-use pedestrian/bicycle bridge over US Highway 19 at Marine Parkway, intended to connect the Starkey Trail and Pinellas Trail. Two design options were presented: a 15-foot-wide version accommodating golf carts (estimated $10–11 million all-in) and a 12-foot version without golf carts (estimated $7–8 million), plus an at-grade crossing improvement included in both. No decisions were made; council expressed concerns about cost and discussed coordination with FDOT, with a draft alternatives report expected around May 20.

   📍Florimar Terrace Feeder Road📍Intersection of Marine Parkway and US Highway 19🏢Florida Department of Transportation🏢Magnuson Hotel🏢SM&E🏢Widow Fletcher's👤Angela Rau👤Councilman Altman👤Kevin Fisher👤Mr. Rivera👤Ms. Manns👤Pete#2022 Marine Pkwy and US Hwy 19 Multi-Use Bridge Feasibility Analysis#At-grade crossing alternative#CRA#Capital Improvement Project budget#Grand Boulevard#Green Key crossing#Pinellas Trail#Starkey Trail#UL-12 design (12-foot, no golf carts)#UL-15 design (15-foot, golf-cart accommodating)

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   [00:00:19] We've got two items on the agenda, so let's kick off on the first one, [00:00:26] which is the Marine Parkway multi-use bridge feasibility analysis. [00:00:31] OK. [00:00:32] Mr. Mayor, members of the council, as you're aware, [00:00:36] this year when we initiated our capital improvement project budget, [00:00:43] one of the projects was a feasibility study on a project [00:00:50] to construct a multi-use bridge feasibility analysis at Marine Parkway. [00:01:00] The purpose of that in large part was to establish [00:01:04] a connector between both the Starkey Trail on the north [00:01:13] and the Pinellas Trail on the south for recreational and economic development [00:01:22] purposes. [00:01:25] The work for the project required an architect and an engineer, [00:01:32] and so the city led a proposal. [00:01:35] And we entered into a contract with SM&E, [00:01:38] and we have Angela Rao with us this evening [00:01:41] who will do the lion's share of the presentation this evening to you [00:01:47] to talk about the design phase of the project. [00:01:51] And we also have Kevin Fisher with us by phone this evening [00:01:57] who served as the project architect. [00:02:00] I'm sorry, engineer. [00:02:02] He couldn't be with us this evening as he's [00:02:05] with his father who has just had some very severe heart surgeries, [00:02:09] but he wanted to be on the phone in case there were questions [00:02:13] that he needed to respond to. [00:02:16] As the project is currently contemplated, [00:02:19] it's a multi-use bridge located at the intersection of Marine Parkway [00:02:24] and US Highway 19. [00:02:27] What I want to introduce you to before we jump in [00:02:30] is some of the assumptions that were made as part of the project, [00:02:36] what the project objectives were. [00:02:40] And then I'm going to turn it over to Angelo [00:02:43] to talk about the various, well, the design phase of the project. [00:02:51] One of the assumptions was that we would close [00:02:54] a portion of the Florimar Terrace Feeder Road, which [00:02:58] is the road right-of-way that spans along with US Highway 19, [00:03:05] connecting between Marine Parkway and Florimar Terrace. [00:03:10] It is adjacent to or runs north-south in front of the Magnuson Hotel, [00:03:18] in front of Widow Fletcher's. [00:03:22] And the other assumption was that we would make roadway improvements [00:03:30] whether or not a pedestrian bridge was installed. [00:03:34] We thought it was very important that pedestrian enhancements were made [00:03:39] whether or not a pedestrian bridge was installed. [00:03:44] The objectives of the project were to minimize [00:03:51] the environmental impact of a bridge. [00:03:53] A bridge of that scale, as you might imagine, is to be very large. [00:04:00] We also wanted to minimize the required property acquisition [00:04:04] because a project of that scale also requires property acquisition. [00:04:10] And our properties on US Highway 19 have escalated considerably [00:04:14] in value in recent years. [00:04:17] And we had a certain sensitivity to cost. [00:04:20] And then there's the design impact. [00:04:21] Because of the height that it has to reach, [00:04:26] we didn't want to block facades of buildings with the bridge. [00:04:32] So those were our objectives in coming up with the design. [00:04:35] There were a good number of variations of layouts that were considered. [00:04:46] What I know we're going to present to you, though, [00:04:52] is what we think is the best shape. [00:04:56] And we're going to show you both what it would look like if it [00:05:01] were to include an accommodation for golf carts and one without golf carts. [00:05:10] And then at the conclusion of the discussion this evening, [00:05:15] we will talk about an estimate of probable construction costs. [00:05:23] And when we do that, I'll talk about the factors of the budget [00:05:29] that have not been included in the budget figures [00:05:35] that we will provide this evening. [00:05:39] And again, this is a work session. [00:05:43] We are not asking you this evening for any decisions. [00:05:48] We will, though, at a future council meeting, [00:05:51] ask you whether or not you want us to proceed [00:05:55] with the design phase of a project to establish the multi-use bridge. [00:06:04] And then additionally, whether or not that bridge [00:06:07] should contain an element to accommodate golf cart traffic. [00:06:12] So for this evening, I'm going to turn it over to Angelo Rau. [00:06:18] And I'll just be prepared to respond to any questions that you may have of me. [00:06:24] Thank you, Ms. Manns. [00:06:24] Appreciate it. [00:06:25] I might suggest anybody in the audience that actually [00:06:28] wants to see the presentations might want to come down a little closer [00:06:31] to the front. [00:06:36] Go ahead. [00:06:36] Well, thank you. [00:06:37] Thank you, Ms. Manns, for the introduction and the assumptions. [00:06:39] Appreciate that. [00:06:40] And as I say, Mr. Fisher is on the line in case there are more technical. [00:06:45] Oh, thank you so much. [00:06:46] I appreciate that. [00:06:52] Just a little test run, make sure I've got the right direction. [00:06:55] There we go. [00:06:56] Yes. [00:06:57] So hopefully you have the booklet in front of you [00:06:59] that basically emulates exactly what will be on the screen, [00:07:02] just in case something goes awry on the screen. [00:07:04] But thank you. [00:07:05] You have a fabulous IT department, a great, great assistance. [00:07:08] Thank you so much. [00:07:10] So this will be, just as Ms. Manns said, a discussion about the feasibility [00:07:16] study that we worked together with the city [00:07:19] to see if there was a probable plan that would be logical in terms [00:07:25] of how it would fit against the location of US-19 and Marine Parkway [00:07:31] and give a probable cause with some assumptions [00:07:34] and some detailed analysis with how it might be coming together [00:07:39] as compact as feasible, given the conditions and the layout. [00:07:43] So I'll just move forward. [00:07:44] And please, interrupt as you wish, or be [00:07:48] happy to have an interactive conversation by all means. [00:07:50] As Ms. Manns said earlier, it's really coming together [00:07:54] as the fruition of existing and future trails and plans of the city. [00:08:02] Obviously, that's the green circle there, the intersection [00:08:04] that we're talking about right now. [00:08:06] And I understand that there'll be a discussion about Grand Boulevard as well. [00:08:09] So it's all sort of coming together quite nicely as a very nice puzzle piece. [00:08:16] A little bit of alphabet soup, because you're [00:08:18] going to see some lettering and wonder, what on earth is that all about? [00:08:21] So just for educational purposes, you'll see, for example, UL-15. [00:08:26] Well, what does the U mean? [00:08:27] The U is that shape that I'm showing there. [00:08:30] It looks like a U. That's reasonably self-described, [00:08:33] but I just thought it would be helpful just [00:08:35] to talk about the alphabet soup a little bit. [00:08:37] So there's the U. There's the L shape that you'll hear us talk about. [00:08:41] There's the 15. [00:08:43] When it's 15 feet, that means that it would [00:08:46] be feasible to accommodate golf carts. [00:08:49] When it's 12 feet, it would not be feasible to accommodate golf carts. [00:08:53] As you can see, maintenance vehicles are permitted in both conditions. [00:08:57] You'll see that in a minute. [00:08:59] And oh, there it is there for the 12 foot. [00:09:01] That's the variation with not golf carts. [00:09:04] So just to give you a sense of what does UL-15 mean, what does UL-12 mean? [00:09:10] Just a little bit of definition of alphabet soup. [00:09:13] As Ms. Manz also noted that you can see that different L [00:09:19] shape at the middle of the intersection, the at-grade crossing. [00:09:22] We also looked at a different alternative to say, well, [00:09:25] what if, for whatever reason, a superstructure or bridge [00:09:30] is not approved or not brought forward for whatever reason? [00:09:34] The public works department, along with Ms. Manz's department, [00:09:39] was clear that something had to be done to help pedestrians and bicyclists [00:09:43] at grade level. [00:09:44] So there is this at-grade crossing that you'll [00:09:47] hear us talk about a little bit, this sort of L-shaped grade crossing [00:09:50] that we want to talk about, just to give you [00:09:53] a sense of scale where we are with the presentation. [00:09:56] So again, here's some of the details with the UL-15. [00:10:00] Again, the U-shape, the L-shape, and the 15-foot for allowing golf carts. [00:10:08] You can see that sort of enumeration along the side. [00:10:12] And I will give some more details on that cost. [00:10:14] We want to give you a raw, that's the raw cost [00:10:17] of the construction of the 15-foot UL design, if it were to go forward. [00:10:22] A few important details, particularly with ADA issues, [00:10:26] you could see that the 5% ramp on the west ramp, 7.5% ramp, 8.3% [00:10:32] is the magic number. [00:10:33] And we do everything in our power. [00:10:36] And Mr. Fisher on the line, he's very sensitive to ADA issues. [00:10:41] And everything in our power to be below the 8.3. [00:10:45] 8.3 is allowed, there's no problem, except we [00:10:48] wanted to be extra sensitive to that in terms of that grade. [00:10:52] So we did everything in our power, and Mr. Fisher [00:10:55] did a great job trying to be below that 8.3%. [00:10:59] And as you can see, in terms of the suggestions, they are under 8.3%. [00:11:06] Again, you can see that, maintenance vehicles and golf [00:11:08] carts at the 15-foot cross-section. [00:11:12] If you can endure these pictures, we've got some pretty pictures, too. [00:11:17] So hopefully, enduring this stuff will pay off in the long run. [00:11:23] We wanted to demonstrate, in real terms, from a quasi-engineer plan. [00:11:29] These are non-engineer plans. [00:11:30] They're absolutely not, but they're quasi-engineer plans, [00:11:33] that this would be the takeoff that, should the city decide [00:11:37] to move forward in terms of engineering design, [00:11:41] these would serve very well at at least bringing it forward [00:11:45] in a constructive way. [00:11:48] So you can see the U-shape. [00:11:51] That's on the Florimar side, as you can see, trying to keep it compact, [00:11:56] trying to keep that elevation down so that the ramps are relatively low, [00:12:02] and in this case, 5%. [00:12:05] At the bottom, what you notice there, that's [00:12:07] what we call a developed elevation. [00:12:10] Imagine a sheet of paper being unwrapped, or kind of a Christmas [00:12:14] wrapping being unwrapped. [00:12:15] That's what it would look like unwrapped, but of course, [00:12:17] and you'll see in a moment, that's really in U-shape. [00:12:20] We just wanted to show you how the sloping works along the line. [00:12:24] So imagine that being wrapped into a U-shape at the bottom. [00:12:27] That's just, we call that a developed elevation. [00:12:32] So just to show a little bit more of actually crossing US-19 [00:12:37] and what it might look like actually crossing the street, [00:12:42] and then on the east side, showing a similar design, [00:12:45] except in this case, it's an L-shape, not a U-shape in terms of its magnitude. [00:12:51] And again, at the bottom, that developed elevation, just to show you, [00:12:54] in this case, it is stretched out, as you see it on the diagram. [00:12:59] Oh, and by the way, you'll notice that not only is there a ramping, [00:13:02] with, in this case, 7.5% on the east side, [00:13:06] there's also a stair system as well. [00:13:08] As you can sort of see at the bottom middle of the page, [00:13:11] there was a similar structure on the west side. [00:13:14] Again, we can come back to all this if necessary. [00:13:17] So very similar condition, and as this man said, [00:13:20] we worked together with the city over the last few months [00:13:23] with various suggestions. [00:13:25] This is the UL-12 version. [00:13:27] That is, does not accommodate golf carts. [00:13:30] So this would, it does accommodate small maintenance vehicles [00:13:34] to be able to access the ramp should there need to be some repairs [00:13:38] or something else that happens. [00:13:40] So that is feasible, not specifically golf carts coming and going. [00:13:45] Very, very similar condition, as you can see, 5%, 7.5%. [00:13:50] Things are generally the same, except that one is 12-foot wide, [00:13:54] and the other is 15-foot wide. [00:13:58] Again, very, very similar condition in terms of that developed elevation. [00:14:04] The staircase, oh, I'm sorry, did I do something? [00:14:08] Oh, it's on this side, okay, sorry. [00:14:10] So you can see that the staircase system is still in place. [00:14:14] Back here again. [00:14:15] Oh, it's back here again. [00:14:16] Just give him time. [00:14:17] Are you guys messing with me? [00:14:18] A little bit. [00:14:21] So again, very, very similar conditions. [00:14:23] Just again, the ramp widths are fundamentally different. [00:14:29] One thing I should point out, I apologize, [00:14:31] is that you can see that the Zed design, [00:14:35] it's slightly south of the actual intersection of US-19, [00:14:39] and that was specifically to allow for the stair system to work, [00:14:43] to allow for the ramping to be below 8.3%, [00:14:46] and a little bit more comfortable for folks. [00:14:48] So just a little additional note there. [00:14:52] Question on that. [00:14:52] Yes, please. [00:14:53] Could street lights be then put onto the bridge itself [00:14:57] because of a viewpoint, or? [00:15:00] You must be clairvoyant, because we are going to ... Council Member, we're going to talk ... No, [00:15:05] no, no, no, no. Thank you so much. Excellent question. You'll see that you're well thought [00:15:11] out. Thank you so much. As I say, you endured all those quasi-engineering looking drawings, [00:15:17] and so let's get to the little more interesting bridge renderings. That's what it could look like, [00:15:23] and to Council Member Altman's point, you could see exactly what he was saying. Look at that [00:15:29] mast arm. It's almost exactly in line with the bridge, and we have a solution for that in a [00:15:34] moment, and I'll show you that. So this is what it could look like in terms of the bridge. You [00:15:38] can see it's relatively compact. That's looking south towards the intersection. You can see on [00:15:44] the west that U-shape that we talked about, and on the east, that more L-shaped design [00:15:49] that is occurring on the east side. That's looking north, again, just to give you a sense [00:16:00] of the rendering, and again, Council Member Altman, your point is well taken. Look at those [00:16:04] mast arms. Oh my gosh. It's not terrible. It's still okay, but we wanted to be extra [00:16:11] careful and cautious, so you'll see in a moment some thoughts. [00:16:15] Oh, and that's a detail of what it could look like, as Ms. Mann said earlier, on the Florimar [00:16:21] side, where there is the feasibility of closing part of Florimar to accommodate the bridge and [00:16:28] other elements along that west side. So I wanted to show you the entire CRA Council, and of course, [00:16:40] it's Council Member Altman's question. Here's a real live example, literally just down the street, [00:16:45] frankly, in terms of where that type of design is. Now, DOT might say they might prefer the [00:16:52] horizontal streetlight approach that's legal. Either way, that'll be a decision that'll have [00:16:56] to be made later, but absolutely, the traffic signal system has to be taken into account [00:17:02] when doing things like this, like bridges like this. Here's another night view. I just couldn't [00:17:07] resist this one. It was just so elegant with the colorization of the picture. That's a nice shot. [00:17:14] Again, most likely horizontal, but not essential, but just to your point, very well taken. [00:17:21] And as you heard Ms. Mann talk about earlier, the at-grade solution, that notwithstanding [00:17:27] what happens to the vertical solution, there's still a desire by the city that perhaps a more [00:17:35] enhanced at-grade crossing be taken care of. So that would mean having to deal with a more robust [00:17:43] crossing system, crosswalk system, much more, we call it high visibility system, [00:17:49] or we nickname the ladder system, as obviously you could see why it might be called the ladder [00:17:53] system. And you can notice that what we call the nose of the median is extended to allow what we [00:18:01] call refuge for pedestrians and bicyclists. So what would happen is that you could see that [00:18:08] that the nose has been extended northerly on the one side and easterly on the other side. [00:18:15] That provides a little bit more refuge for pedestrians and bicyclists, so they feel a little [00:18:18] bit safer when crossing the street. If, for example, they can't quite make it across because [00:18:24] of timing, they have, just as the name implies, a point of refuge to provide a little bit more [00:18:29] safety for them. As you can see, there's a raw cost for just that solution, and we'll talk a little [00:18:35] bit more in a moment. So here's just back to the summary pages now. I was even a little bit [00:18:43] perplexed, I'll be frank with you, when I saw that cost increase from 12 foot to 15 foot. I said, wait a [00:18:50] minute, how could that be? It's only a 25 percent increase in structure, but how can it be almost [00:18:56] a 50 percent? In fact, it's a 52 percent increase. And the rationale is that it's not so much the [00:19:03] materials at hand, it's the distribution of the materials to get to the site and the requirements [00:19:09] by law as to what you can transport in terms of sectional pieces. They have to be such that they [00:19:14] have to be delivered at, I'd forgotten the exact width, but there's a mandatory maximum width, [00:19:20] and then they have to be reassembled on site, so it takes more cost to do that. It's a substantial [00:19:25] increase. There's nothing we can do about that, that's an industry standard, but I did want to [00:19:30] make it so you all can make an informed decision that that is a significant increase in price just [00:19:36] for that one difference. And if we get a little bit more into the details of the kind of added [00:19:43] components, Mr. Rivera and I joked a little bit about saying, well, there's the cost and there's [00:19:49] the ribbon-cutting cost, because the ribbon-cutting cost will always be substantially more. And in [00:19:54] this case, approximately 47 percent more, as you can see, because when you start to add in [00:19:59] the engineering design, construction and inspection, maintenance of traffic, permitting, which we [00:20:04] actually, I don't have a number for permitting just yet, but we'll get that in our report, [00:20:10] the traffic signal readjustment that we talked about earlier that will have to be most likely [00:20:14] done working with DOT, roadway lighting and some drainage issues. Suddenly it goes from the 6.4 [00:20:22] million to approximately 9.8 million. And so in terms of overall probable cost, I don't know [00:20:29] about you, but I haven't seen a single case where it's less. I wish I could tell you that, but I [00:20:35] can't. So in terms of probable overall cost for the 15-foot, we're looking at between 10 and 11 [00:20:41] million dollars. We might get lucky, you never know how things go. I think it's important to note [00:20:46] for the council that this does not include any costs related to any utility work that [00:20:52] might need to be done, nor does it include any property acquisition costs. Thank you. [00:21:00] It's back. Oh, it's back. Okay, and yes, thank you so much for that. [00:21:06] Or any architectural embellishments or anything like that that you might want to program in. [00:21:12] To do the project right. Let's see if I could get to them. There we go. So here's an analysis [00:21:20] of the 12-foot version, about 4.2 plus million for the raw cost, and then when you add on [00:21:27] these other, it turns out to be approximately, again, 47 million dollars, percent, excuse me, 47 percent, [00:21:33] taking it to about 6.6 million. Again, we have a probable cost exactly for the kinds of things [00:21:39] that Ms. Mann said, and still there could be more, between 7 and 8 million dollars for the [00:21:44] 12-foot version. Now, by the way, these costs do include the at-grade cost. So should one or the [00:21:52] other be decided upon, the at-grade cost that you saw earlier is included in both of those concepts. [00:21:59] And I, oh, there we go. And I just, in terms of the next steps, obviously we want to, you know, [00:22:05] listen to your thoughts and comments tonight, want to hear that. We are in the process of putting [00:22:12] together a draft alternatives report for Mr. Rivera and his team to review, and Ms. Mann's, [00:22:20] and then, of course, then based on iterations back and forth, we will have a final report. [00:22:26] If all goes well, our view is to have a draft report, subject to what we hear tonight, of course, [00:22:34] a draft report in the hands of Mr. Rivera and Ms. Mann's, probably around the 20th of May is what [00:22:40] we're looking at, something in that order. A draft report, and then, of course, we'll hear some [00:22:45] comments back and forth and go from there. And with that, I believe that is the, yeah, that's the [00:22:50] last slide. I'd be happy to take questions, comments, thoughts. Okay. I know we've got a couple people [00:22:58] back in the back that might have comments. If they do, come on down. Otherwise, we'll go around the table. [00:23:10] I can kick it off. I got a real problem with the cost of this. If we're talking, and we've got to get [00:23:18] the golf carts across, but we're talking somewhere probably between 12 and 15 million dollars before [00:23:26] we get done, and that, I can think of a lot of other things we ought to spend that sort of money on [00:23:32] other than a bridge, particularly if we can get FDOT to actually fix the intersection [00:23:41] so that it is safe for people to get across at a fraction of that. But first blush, I can [00:23:50] think of a lot of other places we could spend that sort of money. Pete? Yeah, well, you know, [00:23:57] I have to put a caveat here that last week I went to the Department of Transportation's [00:24:04] offices in Tampa to speak to them about the last meeting we were, that they were here talking about [00:24:10] their Green Key crossing. And, you know, frankly, I had, I apologize to them because I think that [00:24:17] the way in which we spoke to them, and using words like dumb and stupid and how could you do it, [00:24:28] really affected them to the point where the District Secretary told me he's not going to do [00:24:33] any work in New Port Richey anymore until the City Council agrees up front, because they spent some [00:24:40] $300,000 on that project, on that crossing. But what they did was they put me through another [00:24:46] iteration of the reason why. And the reason that they are pushing this mid-block crossing, [00:24:55] which is your alternative, which is why I want to start out with this conversation, because [00:24:59] they're committed to address, using specific funds that are coming to them, [00:25:07] to reduce deaths on the highway. And so the DOT's approach looks at the deaths on the highway, [00:25:14] not getting golf carts across Marine Parkway and into Gulf Harbors. And I know you say it has to [00:25:22] be, but, and I think there's a lot of public support for that, but the objective of the [00:25:30] coast-to-coast recreational trail was to get people from the Atlantic Ocean to the Gulf of [00:25:37] Mexico. And that is, from our city's standpoint, the bird seat that we're sitting in. So back to [00:25:46] the DOT, they showed me the list of four or five crossings that they had in mind to put in within [00:25:54] the city limits. Another one between Green Key Beach and the highway, one at Marine Parkway, [00:26:03] and another one I think closer down to Trouble Creek. And the reason is because our part of [00:26:10] Highway 19 was identified, as they said, as the most dangerous fatality highway in the country. [00:26:19] So they really hunkered down, put all their effort in, addressed our staff with it to the [00:26:26] degree that we had the police chief on TV about it. I missed it. And so they really felt stung [00:26:34] by that. They returned the money, said they've lost it. I think they just reassigned it somewhere [00:26:39] else. But short story, there are three, four, five million dollars that are out there for [00:26:47] safety improvements to get pedestrians across the highway. You mentioned the golf carts, [00:26:54] and there are also these other means, which we see different means of transportation every day. [00:27:00] I saw a guy standing up on what looked like a little platform riding down the sidewalks today. [00:27:09] We've got skateboarders and powered skateboarders and all of the other types of [00:27:16] things that are becoming more and more frequent usage, I guess. So I'm not sure where the [00:27:24] separation is between a golf cart and these other electric bicycles. All of the other means to get [00:27:31] across roads, which as I address them, it's like if the, I haven't seen, and can't out of the bag, [00:27:43] of course, is the homeless and some of the issues that the folks on River Road have had with [00:27:51] criminal activity or whatever that causes this sort of, we don't want this because we don't [00:27:56] want that happening in our neighborhood. But absent that, most of the homeless that I have seen [00:28:03] are riding bicycles. I mean, I think that the time is going to come where a little electric bicycle [00:28:10] or some kind of transit, that we're not going to see as much walking at all, you know, that we're [00:28:18] going to see these kind of other uses. So I addressed them and I said, look, you know, our city didn't [00:28:26] like your approach. I personally feel like we never even understood it. We didn't have a full [00:28:34] understanding because a number of us thought there was going to be a traffic light there, that cars [00:28:37] were going to go through it, which is not the case. It was just pedestrian. But that's exactly what would [00:28:42] happen, Pete. If you put that crosswalk at Green Key, that is going to route cars there because [00:28:51] they will use the pedestrian crosswalk as a way of blocking traffic so that they can get out there. [00:28:57] And it goes against absolutely everything that everybody in the North River community has been [00:29:03] screaming about for the last several years regarding speeding traffic on that section of [00:29:08] River Road. And they would have undone everything we've been trying to do to fix it. [00:29:13] So the point of my bringing it up is that they have three, four, five million dollars allocated to our [00:29:19] city for safety. So if we don't want to accept what they want to force, because the point was [00:29:26] we don't need the city's, this is our highway, we don't need the city's agreement for this. [00:29:33] We could do this. We backed off of the thing, he tells me, because of the overwhelming opposition [00:29:41] to it. And now there, you know, there was four people in the meeting, all safety, all about deaths, [00:29:48] all about fatalities, and all about saying how much money there is in that pot of money. So Matt, [00:29:54] as you know, at the MPO meetings, they always talk about what pot of money they're going to [00:29:57] take something out. So to me, [00:30:00] if we don't find some kind of solution and a hundred thousand dollars to mark [00:30:08] an intersection because the death occurred right at Main and 19 that so [00:30:13] those intersections are not necessarily the safest place to cross and and the [00:30:17] traffic is so bad out there I just don't see how many times you can stop traffic [00:30:23] and still not back up the highway even more so to me I think it's a lot of [00:30:28] money for us if you just put for us to pay at the end of that and not a lack [00:30:35] of interest in the project I spoke to them I said what if we work in [00:30:41] conjunction with you because that was the motion that I made was let's back [00:30:45] off work together and see if there's a solution so my suggestion would be to [00:30:50] take the plan to the DOT to say how much of this would you be willing to do [00:30:56] because we know you have the money and we can couch this in terms of the low [00:31:05] income residents that live across the way getting to Publix grocery store [00:31:11] that was all part of the pitch we made for the state years ago when we got you [00:31:16] know three quarters of a million and the project at the time must have already [00:31:20] been two or three because the city backed out of it or or timed out of it [00:31:26] or whatever happened but they the beginning of this showed some of your [00:31:32] trail system and certainly the discussion that Matt you brought back [00:31:38] when it comes to you what Katherine Starkey said about developing that trail [00:31:41] more spending time on the trail bringing that along you know if it comes to a [00:31:46] dead end it seems like it's a lot of money for our little town it's not a lot [00:31:52] of money for our county and our county hasn't done much for us on this side of [00:31:56] the county either so I mean put it in the penny for Pasco discussion to [00:32:00] upgrade it to golf carts and see how many people want that or but at some [00:32:05] point I don't know how we can develop a multi-million dollar trail and not [00:32:11] connect it to the Pinellas trail with all of those residents of Pinellas with [00:32:15] money in their pocket to say it's cool we can get into New Port Richey safely [00:32:22] anyway that's my my pitch I think it's a lot of money if that's what we we want [00:32:28] to do something like that that's a lot of money for us to spend and I was [00:32:31] thinking on the same lines as if we can partner between the county and FDOT and [00:32:35] partner with them to get some of that that paid for where we only have a [00:32:38] small part of that that's a big difference also on the pedestrian bridge [00:32:42] are other forms of transportation other than golf carts able to use the [00:32:47] pedestrian bridge if it's only 12 feet I mean some of the electric bikes and [00:32:51] those things yes the micro we call that micro mobility because we never know if [00:33:00] they're going to be two-way traffic with them and we're concerned that if that [00:33:04] were to happen we want to make sure that particularly at those u-turns that a [00:33:08] safe accommodation is made but certainly micro mobility of vehicles [00:33:12] like a scooter or I forgot what they call that thing councilmember that you [00:33:16] mentioned earlier that skateboard like device but yes bicycles of course but [00:33:23] not golf carts for 12 for 12 and because of that two-way issue [00:33:32] I'm sorry ma'am so we're gonna but we want to on River Road we're gonna [00:33:36] narrow it to be what 10 feet 12 feet well this is the bridge version because [00:33:43] of the maneuvering around corners and then the grade issues so it's a little [00:33:48] bit different than that great man to be honest with you yeah with a with with [00:33:54] it's Frank Starkey mentioned to me last night you've got duallys that are [00:33:59] limited in width to eight feet you you can't quite put two duallys on this [00:34:05] thing and have them pass but anything short of that you could have two full [00:34:11] size motor vehicles actually pass each other in a 15-foot space I mean that [00:34:18] that's huge [00:34:25] all right I just want to address a couple things that were brought up a few [00:34:33] months ago we met with the secretary the temporary leadership did and we went [00:34:37] over this with him and talked about you know one one the whole issue with this [00:34:41] electric vehicles golf carts and they're not paying for that stuff they don't [00:34:46] want to pay any extra for that they're not allowed and the secretary realized [00:34:50] that that he's gonna have to address that and gonna have to make some new [00:34:56] rules for electric whether it's bikes golf carts you know scooters whatever on [00:35:01] the trails and they're gonna have to they're just gonna have to address that [00:35:04] and gonna have to let it be included at some point he was working on that so [00:35:10] we'll see what happens and I'll get back to that we'll see what happens later on [00:35:14] but we did talk with him in length about that and then the other the other thing [00:35:18] we talked about was money the whole idea was talking with Commissioner Starkey [00:35:24] and we're talking about some of these project on the MPO was that we kind of [00:35:31] almost want to double team them a little bit we want to count is gonna do their [00:35:35] part they're gonna build to it 219 from the trail we're gonna do our part build [00:35:41] to it through the city and then at that point then we can go to them for safety [00:35:45] you know economic pedestrian trail bike trail you know I mean and then then [00:35:52] they'll be willing to help you more we can get some of that money whether it's [00:35:56] for safety or economic or all above and we can go to the county and do the same [00:36:00] thing and get some money from them to help to help bring knock this cost down [00:36:05] now with that said it's not going to be this year next year you know three years [00:36:10] from now but it will eventually get there I think everybody's willing to do [00:36:17] that part it's just right now it's a lot of money to try to absorb for us and [00:36:24] there's no way we can do it now we're gonna have to kick it down the road a [00:36:27] little bit but I think what we need to decide is is this something we're still [00:36:31] gonna keep on the back burner on the MPO you know we can keep it on the list and [00:36:35] believe it or not the list on the MPO the longer it sits there you get more [00:36:40] points for it so eventually it's gonna keep kicking up regardless that's our [00:36:45] new rating system so so we need to decide okay now we're a feasibility [00:36:51] study do we need to go to engineering and design so that we at least take the [00:36:55] steps so when it is ready and is feasible we're ready now we know we're [00:37:00] not gonna build it we know we're not gonna do anything anytime soon but we [00:37:05] don't want it to fall away either and we just need to focus on our stuff and then [00:37:09] the county focus on theirs and then and then we can go to the DOT and heck by [00:37:15] then maybe some of the rules have changed now maybe golf carts can come [00:37:20] across so let's hope but that that'd be you know something I think we should [00:37:26] discuss the the other issue that we we have to consider is gonna be property [00:37:33] acquisition back before the the oil change place went on the northeast [00:37:39] corner you know we thought was yeah you could buy that and property and use that [00:37:44] for part of the bridge across which would have been probably a lot less [00:37:48] expensive but right now you basically take out the access to that whole [00:37:55] southeast corner shopping plaza if I'm reading this drawing correctly almost [00:38:03] like we take out the Marine Parkway driveway you take that out too is that [00:38:11] gonna create a problem for the Magnuson and for the create a problem for the [00:38:16] Magnuson we've shared the drawings with the developer and compare what they're [00:38:24] proposing to what this layout would do and there wouldn't be any impact how [00:38:30] about Widow Fletcher's and Winsome they would be fine okay so basically it's [00:38:36] just the that little shopping plaza with the Chinese place on the corner that is [00:38:41] gonna get hammered I got a question for Matt related to that because when when [00:38:45] the drawings that the county did and I don't know Robert if you remember seeing [00:38:50] them but this was back in 2014 2015 maybe 2014 when they were looking to [00:38:59] have a bus transit station that they were going to put next to the Starbucks [00:39:04] in that little place with no bathroom and no place to park because they needed [00:39:09] a transfer station and they had come up with a design and said they had federal [00:39:14] money to do a rightful transit station that they would pay to have a security [00:39:25] there and that would allow for park and ride as well as bike and ride so the [00:39:30] county had a lot of funds a lot of federal funds and an interest in [00:39:34] co-locating with a bike trail so that folks could ride their bike park it and [00:39:41] then the and this is a few years down the road as you said Matt but there's [00:39:45] been a lot of talk about the T-BARTA Pasco connection to a commuters bus [00:39:53] that would be ridden by by employed people who were trying to you know [00:39:58] avoid the traffic and and so so there was a design and a drawing and interest [00:40:05] by the county and I still believe that that's a good idea at the time that it [00:40:09] was there was a flare-up because the word about it got out to elected [00:40:16] officials before the county administrator and the city manager had [00:40:20] had the staff propose it to them and go through the channels properly so there [00:40:26] was an unfortunate train wreck on the on the project but I think they're still [00:40:33] looking for what to do and historically cities don't always get excited about [00:40:39] a bus transit station because that's a hangout but at the same time if it's [00:40:44] security and lighted and and it can start to address this new sort of a way [00:40:50] that people might be living in the future it would be it would be [00:40:53] beneficial for us so I'd like to see us go back to trying to transit match that [00:40:58] up because then it then it does more in terms of helping to relieve traffic with [00:41:04] a park-and-ride element I did I did broach that subject with NPO staff on [00:41:10] on that and they were familiar with it their take their take on it or what [00:41:16] their thoughts were that those kind of things have happened in the past and [00:41:21] they usually didn't work out to be any more cost-effective it's a basically [00:41:27] they didn't think it was that great of an idea I'd say it's not but that was [00:41:34] just kind of their take on it when I talked to the staff about it it's [00:41:38] something we can go back and look at it does make sense okay but that was kind [00:41:43] of the the mood that I got from them talk to the transit people you know the [00:41:48] folks on this side may be not feeling the same as the folks that are trying to [00:41:51] develop the transit I think it's worthwhile pursuing whatever we can to [00:41:57] get into the micro transit and I don't know what the future is but it seems to [00:42:02] be a growing trend to try to lower and with the people park getting gas at the [00:42:12] Sam's Club today they were getting it fast so I'm thinking it's so pricey [00:42:17] they're just getting it every 10 bucks or 20 bucks this cost $100 to fill up a [00:42:24] truck now you know so I think yeah I mean it's looking to the future and then [00:42:31] it takes 10 years to get there and then by the time you try you're already [00:42:34] behind so I like your approach Matt to just kind of I think you should keep it [00:42:40] on the burner keep pushing it and perhaps it can become an element of our [00:42:44] penny for Pascoe improving the golf cart and micro transit movement in [00:42:51] general because then we'll have another source of revenue to look at just as a [00:42:56] clarification the any one of these three design exercises would include the grade [00:43:07] level improvements yes you know that and that might be the the solution if we can [00:43:13] get F dot to move on dealing with the grade level issues that that's an [00:43:20] immediate start while we try to figure out how big a ramp or bridge we need and [00:43:30] it would it would solve one of those problems my my concern right now is 19 [00:43:34] is extraordinarily dangerous I happen to agree with the secretary about that I [00:43:40] just disagreed with their initial location that they basically blindsided [00:43:48] us with but if we could do something starting with the Marine Parkway to make [00:43:55] that safer to get across and make it safe for everybody to get across [00:44:01] regardless of whether they are walking driving bicycling or whatever that would [00:44:08] get us at least a step in the right direction and then look if we can come [00:44:13] up with somebody else just to come up with the 12 or 15 million dollars we [00:44:19] need to do the the bridge then so be it I don't see New Port Richey with a you [00:44:25] know 15,000 souls being able to pull that off by ourselves but you're right [00:44:30] if if F dot in the county and state all want to kick in I have no problem with [00:44:38] us doing our part on that part of the help is for us to get our golf our our [00:44:44] trail on the state trail list so our master plan has to has to drive up with [00:44:52] the county's master plan and we got to make it official so that we can qualify [00:44:55] ourself for some of those funds even right away I think for [00:45:00] And so we have the immediate issues of Grand Boulevard and some of the stuff that we're seeing. [00:45:05] Debbie, is this the same firm that's looking at that for us as well? [00:45:08] I mean, have we completed our master plan for our trail system? This is it. [00:45:15] It has been completed, yes. [00:45:17] That's going to be the next topic of discussion. [00:45:20] Deputy Mayor, I know you came in late on the whole bridge thing, but did you have any comments you wanted to share? [00:45:26] Yes. First of all, I apologize for my tardiness, Mayor and fellow council members. [00:45:34] If you guys recall, when we were authorizing the money for this study, [00:45:41] I was reluctant to do so, to vote for that expenditure, [00:45:47] because I thought that it was a cost-prohibited project as far as the city goes. [00:45:53] And then I finally agreed to it once I understood that part of the study was on improving this, [00:46:04] what do you call it, on-grid or on the grade crosswalk, and I was very much interested in that. [00:46:13] The thing is, I'm not against having a crossing. [00:46:22] I just don't think it is an expenditure that the city would want to spend anywhere near the type of money that we're looking at, at least at this point. [00:46:36] And I love the idea of bicycle trails, and I think the money that we would potentially spend on this, [00:46:43] if we spend that on other trails and linking our city up east or even north and improving those, would be better spent. [00:46:54] And I understand there's a cross Florida Trail and coming across and get over the 19 and hook that, [00:47:00] but you can also connect going south. [00:47:05] I know that the trail that crosses 54 down there by Longleaf, that that works its way in and gets crossed down to Tarpon Springs. [00:47:13] I know there's additional needs for crossing 19, but I just don't see it in our checkbook, I guess is what I'm trying to explain to you. [00:47:23] How does the Longleaf one get to Tarpon? [00:47:27] So I don't know other than if people were telling me they ride down there. [00:47:31] Now they probably cross 19, but that's where they get down. [00:47:36] I haven't ridden it all the way myself. [00:47:38] You have to cross Little and Rowan and East Lake. [00:47:40] Yeah, they cross at Starkey, and I believe they've got plans for a bridge there as well. [00:47:50] But then there is a trail that goes all the way down to whatever Tarpon Boulevard is on that side of East Lake. [00:48:01] And then it goes down to East Lake and there is an existing underpass under US 19 that gets them onto the Pinellas Trail. [00:48:10] Which of course doesn't come at all into West Pasco once it gets all brought through our county. [00:48:16] And that's my argument. [00:48:19] That's what I was saying, you know, maybe it comes in this way, right? [00:48:23] And then maybe that, you know, I don't think our master plan, we looked at a connection that way. [00:48:29] Our connection was, you know, Starkey coming down Massachusetts that way, right? [00:48:37] So that's a long connection. [00:48:41] I'll call that the North City route. [00:48:43] We need a South City route if it's really something we find our citizens going to use. [00:48:48] One more piece of information, I don't know if it's actually occurred or not, [00:48:52] but I understand that Gunther Flagg, who was here making a pitch for the bicycle trail before, [00:49:00] and who was part of the family ownership of all the land that we have a little connection to our 10-acre piece on. [00:49:08] It's a checkerboard, so it didn't quite meet the annexation test. [00:49:13] But that has been, that there is a pending sale on that. [00:49:19] But he had indicated to me that he intended to put an easement for city utilities, [00:49:25] because it's in our area, and for a trail. [00:49:32] So he is so committed to the trail that he's making a condition, as he told me, of his sale of his property, [00:49:39] to have a trail continue on to the coast following a recreation manor to hook into the Tarpon that way. [00:49:47] And I think anyone who wants a recreational trail would agree that would be a preferable route [00:49:52] than to go across Rowan Little 19, under or over, or whatever else they plan to do at that end. [00:50:02] So I just want to make sure that we don't close the gate on this, [00:50:08] because if a developer comes and wants to put housing in there and help us to develop the trail the rest of the way, [00:50:14] and we're right here in the city, we'd be fools, A, if we didn't allow that annexation in, [00:50:19] because it wouldn't be in the CRA, and we'd get all that tax money into our general fund, which is desperate for it, [00:50:25] and B, it would help us to create that Gulf of Mexico, if that's an objective, somebody driving across the whole state. [00:50:34] I know I'd be looking for the shortest track by the time I got across. [00:50:41] Go ahead. [00:50:43] I think part of the lure of that is the trail hooking up with the Suncoast Trail up towards Bailey's Bluff, [00:50:49] and taking that scenic route all the way through Straubel Memorial, through the Salt Flats, and up the coast, [00:50:54] and then down along the river through our city. [00:50:57] I mean, it just makes for a nice trail. [00:51:00] It does. [00:51:02] And that's a good segue to the second item on our agenda, which is talking about the Grand Boulevard Path Project.

   This text was generated automatically from the meeting video. It is not a verbatim or official record. For exact wording, consult the video or the city clerk.

3. 3

   ↳You arrived here from a search for “Ritchie Elementary landscaping project” — transcript expanded below

   Grand Blvd. Multi-Use Path Project

   discussed

   Consultants from Wanamaker Jensen and GAI presented Phase 1 design for the Grand Boulevard Multi-Use Path Project, a 10-foot trail running from Marine Parkway to Riverview Boulevard on the east side of Grand Boulevard, with landscaping, screening of the Sunrise Village Plaza, and a future crossing connecting to Grand Boulevard Park. Council discussed accelerating the segment from the bridge into downtown by narrowing the four-lane bridge section to two lanes using paint and physical barriers (e.g., concrete turtles) ahead of the county's bridge replacement, and considering possible future acquisition of the Swetman property.

   • direction:Council directed staff to explore accelerating the multi-use path segment from the bridge north into downtown by using paint striping and physical barriers (e.g., concrete turtles) to narrow the four-lane section to two lanes ahead of the county bridge replacement. (none)

   📍5939 Grand Boulevard📍Grand Boulevard Bridge📍Grand Boulevard Park📍Grand Boulevard from Marine Parkway to Riverview Boulevard📍Swetman property🏢GAI🏢Sunrise Village Plaza🏢Wanamaker Jensen👤Angelo👤Arnie👤Frank Starkey👤Hannah Ambrose👤Kelly👤Ms. Mann👤Robert👤Ruth Perry#Grand Boulevard Bridge replacement (Pasco County)#Grand Boulevard Multi-Use Path Project Phase 1#Marine Parkway Trail#Recreation and Aquatic Center Expansion Project#Ritchie Elementary landscaping project#Sims Park Improvement Project#Starkey Trail#Venetian Causeway (referenced as design precedent)

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   [00:51:09] Thank you. [00:51:11] Thank you. [00:51:14] And we have Hannah Ambrose with us this evening, who's going to assist us in the presentation. [00:51:20] We'll ask her to come up and take Angelo's place. [00:51:23] She is with the firm Watermaker Johnson, who we've had the benefit of working with on a couple of significant projects in the city. [00:51:31] Thank you. [00:51:32] The first of which was the Sims Park Improvement Project. [00:51:36] The second is the Recreation and Aquatic Center Expansion Project. [00:51:45] And she has brought along with her Ruth Perry, who has been working with us on the project. [00:51:52] And we're going to outline for you the design work that has been done to construct the path, [00:52:01] or to design the path on the west side of the street connecting with... [00:52:09] I'm sorry. [00:52:11] That's all right. [00:52:12] I'm sorry. [00:52:15] It doesn't ring for a week until the next meeting, and then right before I turn it on. [00:52:20] So I never get any phone calls. [00:52:26] And we'll go ahead and let them start, and then we'll talk about some of the hardscape and site furnishings [00:52:32] and landscape improvements that we're proposing as part of the project. [00:52:36] But I'll let you two start. [00:52:38] Great. [00:52:39] Thank you so much. [00:52:40] Good evening, Mr. Mayor, council members. [00:52:42] Thank you for having us again. [00:52:45] Like Ms. Mann said, we're lucky enough to be involved in a variety of projects here in New Port Richey. [00:52:51] And the next one that we're here to talk about today is Grand Boulevard. [00:52:55] The trail is one of a few different phases that we're looking at to connect the Marine Parkway Trail to downtown. [00:53:08] I myself am an architect with Wanamaker Jensen, [00:53:12] and this particular project required that we bring in some additional expertise, [00:53:17] which is why I'm joined today by Ruth Perry with GAI. [00:53:21] And Ruth has done an incredible job in putting together a plan for phase one of this project. [00:53:28] So today she's going to talk about some of the conflicts along Grand Boulevard that we faced [00:53:35] in trying to come up with a trail that makes it safer for pedestrians to make their way downtown or towards Marine Parkway. [00:53:47] It also beautifies the landscape a bit as a more formal entry to downtown. [00:53:54] We're bringing in some beautiful and also hardy landscaping that will last for quite some time [00:54:02] and making some intentional interventions potentially to some of the existing utilities [00:54:07] and other site layouts to benefit the overall goals of the project. [00:54:11] So with that, I'll hand it over to Ruth. [00:54:14] I do want to mention, though, before we go on, that downtown isn't the conclusion of this path. [00:54:21] The path will actually connect to the Starkey Trail to the north in its final phase. [00:54:30] And we'll be going to Madison and then to Massachusetts. [00:54:35] Right. So this is just the first portion of that. [00:54:39] And we started this process, what, a year ago? [00:54:43] And so it's actually nice to see your faces because we did a lot of this on Zoom in teens, [00:54:48] so it's actually nice to be in person for once. [00:54:52] So is this the? [00:54:55] Yep. [00:54:56] And I just pointed. [00:54:58] Where? Just anywhere? [00:55:00] Okay. [00:55:01] All right, so I can't see anything. [00:55:08] Okay, so the project limits were from Marine Parkway to Riverview Boulevard. [00:55:18] So that's kind of where we're going to start from. [00:55:20] And so we had a couple challenges. [00:55:22] So one of the things that we looked at, or where we started, is we looked at, you know, [00:55:26] where we wanted to put the pathway. [00:55:30] Did we want it on the east side or did we want it on the west side? [00:55:33] So we had to look at both of those options. [00:55:35] And what we realized straightaway was on the west side we had some conflicts, some really big conflicts. [00:55:43] One of them was from Marine to Craft Street. [00:55:46] That is like a very large paved area, and so we felt that was a big conflict area. [00:55:54] Then again at Water Street and the medical building there, there's a street, there's a parking lot, [00:56:02] there's just a lot of vehicular traffic, so we thought that was kind of a problem. [00:56:06] And then again when we got to Grand and Gulf Boulevard where we've got the mini market, [00:56:11] that was a bit of a problem as well. [00:56:14] So we looked at then moving it to the east side, but thinking, well, [00:56:19] we wanted to actually end the trail at the park. [00:56:23] Grand Boulevard Park. [00:56:25] Grand Boulevard Park. [00:56:26] So we thought, well, let's put it on the east side, and then once we get past all of the problem areas, [00:56:31] we'll cross back over and then be on the west side of the road. [00:56:35] So we looked at that option, and then, you know, that had some obvious challenges as well. [00:56:40] So then we backed up and we put everything on the east side, and then we go past the park, [00:56:46] and we actually have a, we're talking about having a crossing that would go from east to west [00:56:53] at Riverview Drive, which is a safer spot than trying to, you know, without a later or something. [00:57:02] Right, at that point it would connect into Phase 2, so the path would continue. [00:57:07] Right, so then we figured that if it stayed on the east side, [00:57:10] then it would just remain on the east side all the way into downtown. [00:57:14] So with that, let's look at it a little closer. [00:57:19] This is really truncated. [00:57:22] But anyway, so what we ended up with is a 10-foot multi-use trail. [00:57:30] We found one area where we were able to reduce the pavement width, [00:57:35] and get a little bit more on the east side so that we could have the trail [00:57:41] and a little bit of landscape area as well. [00:57:44] And one of the things that we wanted to do, and we ended up doing, [00:57:48] is screening of the Sunrise Village Plaza. [00:57:51] So with that, reducing the pavement width and taking it into the landscape area, [00:57:57] we were able to create a little bit more green space in that particular area, [00:58:02] which we thought was pretty important at the time. [00:58:05] And then the improvements on the Grand Bridge, obviously, [00:58:10] is instead of the four lanes of traffic, you're going to end up with two lanes of traffic [00:58:15] with a wider median and some safer places to cross as pedestrians. [00:58:20] And then the access to the Grand Boulevard Park was kind of an important driver of this. [00:58:28] So we started at Marine Boulevard where we wanted to do paving patterns, [00:58:35] so that was kind of the entrance to the park. [00:58:39] Excuse me, parks on the brain. [00:58:42] To the trail. [00:58:44] And that would just be either some sort of, and what we're showing, it's red, [00:58:49] but it doesn't necessarily have to be red. [00:58:51] We're just indicating that that's going to be some sort of specially paved change. [00:58:55] Right, exactly. [00:58:56] I think it also highlights the crosswalks a little bit more. [00:58:59] Right, exactly. [00:59:00] And we obviously could not cross on that north side of the intersection [00:59:05] because of the configuration of that corner of the north, the right turn lane. [00:59:16] It just seemed like a lot of trouble. [00:59:19] So we kept everything on the east side. [00:59:23] As we go down to, I believe that's, is that right? [00:59:30] Oh, you have it? [00:59:31] So there's Hampton and Crafts Street, and I believe Crafts is the street [00:59:37] that butts into Grand Boulevard at an angle. [00:59:42] And the way that it's positioned, so that's the street at the top right of the page there. [00:59:49] It would create a very elongated crosswalk, [00:59:52] and this is one of those major pain points that we put in the negative column [00:59:57] for looking at the trail on the west side of the intersection. [01:00:00] street and ultimately why we decided to move it on to the east side. But if you're [01:00:04] looking at the west side of the street where the trail as we're showing it [01:00:09] begins that would be the corner of the future fire station area there. So it's a [01:00:15] pretty prominent corner and I think a great place to kick things off. And then [01:00:20] the other thing that we looked at too in this process was you know where lights [01:00:23] would go and where the conflicts would be. So there are several there are [01:00:28] several power poles that will have to be moved and some different things [01:00:31] happening along that that section as well. But of course as I said this seemed [01:00:38] to be the the safest route for pedestrians on this east side. And so [01:00:49] this is sort of where we can it starts at school Avenue right there I'm sorry [01:00:55] High Street. That's where we're able to take that pavement and narrow the [01:01:02] pavement and we can create some landscaping between the roadway and the [01:01:07] trail. So that's how we end up getting some of that landscape area in that [01:01:12] particular area. I think is nice it just feels a little safer when you're on that [01:01:18] pathway. And then you can sort of see in the two photographs what that looks like [01:01:28] right now and what it may end up. [01:01:35] And this is our problem child right here which is the Sunrise Villa Plaza. And not [01:01:44] that it's a problem I think it's an opportunity that we're able to take that [01:01:48] pavement and landscape and you know create a green space between the roadway [01:01:55] and the the trail. And then also provide some screening from the trail to the [01:02:01] property line. Which I think will kind of help screen that parking and so it [01:02:07] doesn't feel like it's just all pavement. And I'm done. I think it also provides a [01:02:15] safer experience for the pedestrians along this way as well right? You have a [01:02:19] bit of a buffer there with some landscaping. How much parking do they [01:02:23] lose in that shopping plaza? I think it's about six feet worth of pavement that [01:02:30] we're taking over if I'm reading that correctly. Well from the looks of it I [01:02:39] think they've been borrowing from quite some time. Yes. Driving all the way out to the city right of way so I think he's been more than generous in allowing them to do that. But ultimately their storefronts are going to be [01:02:51] benefiting massively from this improvement. I mean in just foot traffic and you know [01:02:58] visual appeal. And then the other thing that we did is we sort of narrowed that [01:03:02] the entrances down a little bit to make them a little bit more manageable for [01:03:05] cross for pedestrian crossings as well. So that's something. The entrances into the [01:03:10] plaza parking? Into the plaza parking space. Yeah. But we did look at making sure that we [01:03:15] know we weren't removing parking and we're trying to be sensitive to to them [01:03:24] as well. And around the corner we still are able to maintain a little bit of [01:03:34] green space between the the trail and then the roadway. But then once we get up [01:03:39] to Gulf Drive then we end up you know right up against the the trail ends up [01:03:46] right up against the roadway. And that's just a function of space. Yeah there's a [01:03:50] lot of topographic concerns in that area too. Right exactly. And a one-way street too that [01:03:56] that shooting to the south right we're on Gulf right to the east of you at that [01:04:03] intersection which is. Right it's just fairly close to the road and everything [01:04:11] else there so. [01:04:20] And once we get up to where the bridge is if we didn't really have geometry for [01:04:26] what that bridge might look like so we sort of took a stab at that. And what we [01:04:32] read what it looks like is we're able to you know recapture some landscaping [01:04:39] between the road and the sidewalk or excuse me the multi-use trail and [01:04:42] actually create some opportunities for some benches and some seating areas in [01:04:47] that area because we think that's quite nice. And then you slide in there. That's [01:05:00] okay. So this cross-section here. Well I was gonna I was just was going to say [01:05:08] that the trail ends up going past the the bridge and up to Riverview Drive yes. [01:05:18] Yeah. And then from Riverview from that area or from right there it'll cross [01:05:22] over the street. Connecting into the park. If you wanted to get to the park. [01:05:27] Correct. But our connections are all. Right. I mean I just wanted to add too we all [01:05:35] know that the Grand Boulevard bridge is going to be replaced. We also have a [01:05:39] task order with Watermaker Jensen to work on the design with the county so [01:05:45] that we can blend the design into what we're working on right now. We're in [01:05:50] continued discussion with the county. We have a contact there and I called to [01:05:55] follow up with them earlier this week and they said that they're still caught up with some of their [01:06:00] attorneys. But it'll be an integrated process in getting all this design. But [01:06:05] in likelihood what may happen is that we end up implementing from Marine [01:06:12] Parkway to Gulf and then skipping that block where the bridge is and picking up [01:06:21] on the other side of it with improvements. Because it sounds like it [01:06:26] could be 24 before the county is ready to implement the bridge improvements. [01:06:33] Question. The comment about the four lanes. So it's like it's all two lane and [01:06:41] then all of a sudden the bridge makes it wider and it stays wider until it gets [01:06:48] back towards town and then it does get back down in again. So I don't know. It's [01:06:56] a good chance for people at speed want to get it around somebody that's going [01:06:59] the speed limit. But other than that I'm not sure how much extra traffic it's [01:07:05] carrying because it bottlenecks and then bottlenecks again. Mayor you're always a [01:07:11] big fan of trying to do things ahead cheaply but you could almost draw the [01:07:19] bicycle path in. Eliminate the road being double lane and start getting used to [01:07:26] the fact that it's a single lane. I would prefer fiscally conservative to [01:07:30] cheaply. You raise an excellent point. Is there any reason that we [01:07:43] maintain those four vehicle traffic lanes beyond next week? I mean [01:07:52] realistically. Well certainly we have an urban planner that happens to live on [01:08:08] that stretch of the street so we could get some input from. But it does raise [01:08:14] the question you know even if it takes us a little bit to get that [01:08:20] section done, I would not object to us looking at working on the whole idea of [01:08:29] the multi-use path from the bridge north to the to Main Street. Basically you know [01:08:36] even before we get the bridge replaced. At least when you get the first [01:08:43] two legs, so we got the leg at Marine Parkway, we've got the leg to come into [01:08:48] Gulf Drive, you're halfway there. That might be the time to think about some [01:08:52] experimental marking or narrowing the road and putting the bicycle lines in at [01:08:58] least or something. Yeah. I think a couple times about going ahead and doing that. [01:09:08] Can we just back up one more slide real quick before we get into this? So the area [01:09:15] there right before you get to the bridge you said you can recapture some [01:09:18] landscaping, perhaps some benches and so forth. You know that idea. But if we go [01:09:22] immediately to the south of that where we don't have the green space, is that [01:09:28] is that the Swetman property? Is that what that we are talking about [01:09:32] right there? All right. So you know it's just we don't know the future of that [01:09:44] property holds yet, but you know what I would hope to maybe in our planning make [01:09:54] some if we make some considerations that perhaps there might be some land that [01:09:59] the city can acquire as that project, as whatever happens that property happens. [01:10:07] I think it would be in our interest to to maybe think ahead that that is a [01:10:13] could be a distinct possibility and wouldn't want to necessarily you know [01:10:21] you know I know it's hard to build a trail and then say well we'll build on [01:10:25] property we don't own or anything like that. But I just would you know where I'm [01:10:29] going with this right so I'm just I just I'd hate I'd hate to I don't want us to [01:10:34] to close our that opportunity that I think we just something we got to think [01:10:38] about. But sure okay and we did that with with the last project that we did [01:10:43] with Ritchie Elementary. We worked with the school board and was able to do some [01:10:47] landscaping as well so I think that's something that we could look at. I mean [01:10:56] you know I'd love to see the idea for us to I know we want to do this like in [01:11:00] legs but and I understand that the bridge is the bridge right and it's [01:11:05] until the county does that and I know there's a quite a bit because the bridge [01:11:10] is going to be changing elevation there's quite I've forgotten just how [01:11:15] far Robert that we have to change the ramp up to that the approach to the [01:11:21] bridge right but you know I'd like to see us I'd like to move kind of move [01:11:30] forward this leg from the bridge into town try to move that up on the on the [01:11:35] on the calendar because you know I think that just really is I think it's ready [01:11:43] number one we have space and number two you know it's just that great visual [01:11:47] entrance to our downtown core and you know and a lot of those residents along [01:11:55] the streets there they do you know that they're pedestrians they walk a lot and [01:12:01] there's a lot of bikes I see down that way and I think it'd be a section that [01:12:05] would really be utilized quite heavily if you would indulge me mr. Starkey you [01:12:11] live right there could you give us some input on urban planning and and actually [01:12:19] living on the street we're talking about [01:12:24] hi Kelly welcome Frank Starkey 5939 Grand Boulevard so I'm at the corner of [01:12:30] Illinois on Grand Boulevard and I I was remarking of the mayor last night that [01:12:35] I've observed that a staggering proportion of the traffic on Grand [01:12:43] Boulevard in that section is not cars bicycles scooters whatever the newest [01:12:52] micro mobility devices are and lots of golf carts and tons of pedestrians and [01:12:57] scooters and strollers more and more families with kids in strollers in the [01:13:05] four years since I've lived there which is a remarkable change I actually bought [01:13:11] a trail camera thinking I was gonna be able to set it up and like be able to [01:13:16] count because traffic tube counts only pick up cars and and maybe golf carts I [01:13:21] don't know if they pick up bikes but they certainly don't pick up pedestrians [01:13:23] or scooters or people on the sidewalk so that it is a very much non-motorized [01:13:28] there's a lot of a lot of use there the I noticed that there are signs on the [01:13:34] bridge that say no golf carts all the bridges now I think say no golf carts [01:13:38] except maybe Main Street which is a big middle finger to golf carts that we've [01:13:42] just made legal in the rest of the city so I don't understand that but it I [01:13:46] understand why that was the case but on the Grand Boulevard bridge you have [01:13:50] extra lanes that you don't need and what the extra lanes actually do for the [01:13:57] straightaway is they give people the think the idea to pass usually on the [01:14:02] right at obnoxious speed often accompanied by horns and middle fingers [01:14:06] and gunning of engines there's also the extra width gives you visual permission [01:14:14] to drive extra fast including a lot of cops who are not Arnie don't even have [01:14:18] their lights on it seems when you hit Delaware coming south out of downtown [01:14:24] after having a couple beers and driving a Harley-Davidson or any or truck any [01:14:30] kind of car with a loud engine there seems to be a an impulse to just gun it [01:14:35] so that you're hitting 60 about the time you pass in front of my house I don't [01:14:39] have kids but I'd be terrified if I did of running out in the street so I it [01:14:46] occurred to me with that's at the sign about the no golf carts on the bridge [01:14:52] just turn the outside lanes and a golf carts micro mobility pedestrians and [01:14:57] everybody else and cars only in the middle [01:15:00] lanes. That could be done with paint. It really needs some sort of physical barrier. It could [01:15:04] be turtles, which they did on the Venetian Causeway that goes out from downtown Miami [01:15:11] out to South Beach. I just saw that picture of it the other day. I haven't seen it in [01:15:15] person, but it was a four-lane road. They took the outside two lanes and put a pair [01:15:21] of stripes, painted green between them, I think, with the concrete turtles. So it's [01:15:28] a physical barrier, but it's not going to kill you if your car hits it, but it'll definitely [01:15:32] keep you from driving out of that. So that was my suggestion on that. Is that what you [01:15:37] were... Yeah, but I don't like running over turtles, but that's... Not real turtles. The [01:15:43] reason is, I mean, yeah, they're there to keep you... They're just less ugly than the [01:15:49] slapstick breakaway poles that... I'm just kidding. Oh, they did? It was a turtle joke. [01:15:54] Oh, okay. Sorry. Thank you, Mr. Starkey. Yeah, going... And there really isn't any reason [01:16:03] that we shouldn't look at that stretch, and we can start by doing much like what we did [01:16:10] with Main Street on the other side of the bridge. Narrow it down, and let's try striping [01:16:17] it, because that doesn't cost us anything more than the paint to put the things up and [01:16:25] say, hey, these are the new bike paths going down the sides of the street. And the turtles. [01:16:32] Well, yeah, whatever the cost of turtles are, I... Yeah. That sounds like... What do you [01:16:40] all think? In terms of preparing or, you know? I think it's a great way to get it started. [01:16:49] Transition. To transition. Absolutely. Yeah, I think... Whatever you can do to slow the [01:16:54] cars down and give them two lanes, if that's all they need, then reclaim that space. I [01:17:02] think it gets the first... It attacks the first goal heavily, which is safety, right? [01:17:10] You really want, especially for adults or families with kids, to feel a little bit safer [01:17:17] and not get people crossing aggressively. And then from there, once people get a little [01:17:21] bit more used to it, then you go in and you can add some of the landscape interventions [01:17:27] and pick it up a notch, but... And move the... Maybe move the curb out so that, you know, [01:17:33] you can put the trail... So you can continue the trail. I mean, there's a lot of things [01:17:37] that you can do. Okay. Well, that gives us some food for thought, then. Sounds good. [01:17:42] Anything else? I know it's getting ahead of it, but we had this discussion about two years [01:17:48] ago, and it's for your next phase, when we were talking about Montana being a wide road [01:17:56] that we could have avoided some of the entanglements that we already have in the downtown versus [01:18:03] having the bicycles sort of come in. So that's another discussion that I think I'd like to [01:18:08] have us start talking about and figuring out, because some of us were figuring, how do we [01:18:14] get from Grand... And of course, Sims Park has the trail that runs all the way along [01:18:20] and out. I don't know if it's Virginia that shoots over to Massachusetts, but we do have [01:18:26] that trail link already in place. And there's... You're talking about where we're going to [01:18:34] turn before it gets downtown. That was... We were kind of all there, and then all of a [01:18:38] sudden, we started to have second thoughts. I don't know if... Well, we need to revisit [01:18:42] that. Or if it was the wrong thing to do. Yeah. There may actually be a couple of those [01:18:48] alternate routes. I could see us with three, actually, starting at the west, having a trail [01:18:57] that goes from Grand West and picks up what ultimately becomes Lincoln. Because at that [01:19:04] point, you go straight across. We've already got the existing pedestrian crossing lights [01:19:11] there. And then from then into the park, and they can go north from there. Have a way of [01:19:19] safely getting up Grand and into the downtown, if that's in fact what your destination is. [01:19:25] If you're going up to one of the restaurants or one of the bars or one of the stores in [01:19:33] the downtown, being able to bicycle or walk up into that area safely is good. And then [01:19:39] for folks that are just trying to ride like crazy and get all the way to Ormond Beach, [01:19:46] let them take the route on Delaware or Montana or whatever over to Madison and Madison up, [01:19:56] ultimately winding up at Congress and Mass where the county trail picks up. [01:20:12] Anything else? We don't have anything further to present. In that case, we'll adjourn until

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4. 4Adjournment