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1. 1Call to Order - Roll Call▶ 0:00
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   Nebraska Avenue Parking Lot Improvement Project

   discussed

   Council reviewed the design for the Nebraska Avenue Parking Lot Improvement Project, which would yield 106 spaces (up from ~90) at a low bid of ~$722,000 funded by Penny for Pasco. Consultant Keith Grimminger advised against extending Nebraska Avenue west to Lincoln Street due to high cost (~$30-35K per added space). Council discussed delaying to coordinate with other ongoing planning efforts (Regional Planning Council, Arnett Muldrow, private developer) and gave general direction to explore holding the bid while gathering more information.

   • direction:Council directed staff to explore holding the bid while gathering input from other ongoing planning efforts and stakeholders before moving forward. (none)

   📍5742 Main Street📍5939 Grand Boulevard📍Gloria Swanson parking lot📍Lincoln Street📍Missouri Avenue📍Nebraska Avenue🏢Arnett Muldrow🏢Hacienda Hotel🏢Kimley-Horn and Associates🏢Pasco County Regional Planning Council🏢Stantec👤Charles Rivera👤Debbie Manz👤Frank Starkey👤Jim Gunderson👤Keith Grimminger👤Matt👤Nicole Berlin👤Sarah#Hacienda Hotel parking agreement#Kaiser parking garage#Nebraska Avenue Parking Lot Improvement Project#Penny for Pasco funds#Railroad Square pedestrian mall concept

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   [00:00:17] The first and only item on the agenda is the Nebraska-Arabia Parking Lot Improvement Project. [00:00:21] Mrs. Manz, take it away. [00:00:22] Thank you. [00:00:23] Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council, the staff has been working with Kimley Horne [00:00:29] and Associates on the design of this project for just over a year now. [00:00:41] The project foundries are Nebraska Avenue and it bounds behind the businesses fronting [00:00:56] Main Street from Grand Boulevard traveling to the west by one block, basically behind [00:01:10] the social and the other retail and restaurant establishments bounded by that block. [00:01:21] The city is one of the property owners there, the county is also a property owner there, [00:01:30] and the purpose of the project in large part was to come into compliance under the terms [00:01:37] of the Land Development Code with the parking standards and landscape standards of the city [00:01:44] as well as to gain a number of parking spaces. [00:01:52] As I'm sure you will recall, when the city entered into an agreement with Mr. Jim Gunderson [00:02:02] in relationship to the Hacienda Hotel, we granted him the exclusive use of 48 parking [00:02:15] spaces in the Gloria Swanson parking lot, which has created an increase or a need for [00:02:24] an increase in the number of parking spaces within the city's downtown. [00:02:30] The project also improves the safety of both pedestrians and vehicular traffic in the parking [00:02:40] area and plans for common service areas. [00:02:44] What I'd like to do is turn it over to Keith Grimminger, who's the principal from Kimley [00:02:50] and Horn that's principally, yeah, now of Stantec, who served as the principal as much [00:03:02] of the planning, and Nicole is also here, I see, today, Berlin, and take us through [00:03:08] some of the planning that took place so that we can show you where we are in the design [00:03:13] of the project, hopeful that you will take a liking to the work that's been done. [00:03:21] The project has been let for bid. [00:03:24] We have planned to rely on Penny for Pasco funds to implement the project, and if it [00:03:32] meets with your approval, then we'll advance a recommendation to you in that respect. [00:03:37] Please, Keith. [00:03:39] Before he starts, could you answer when you mentioned that Gunderson had an exclusive [00:03:44] right to those parking spaces? [00:03:46] I think it was, you allocated them, but I believe they were non-exclusive. [00:03:52] We're not putting Hacienda labels on those parking spaces, are we? [00:03:58] We have given him the exclusive right to 48 parking spaces in the lot, but he has opted [00:04:07] not to sign the parking spaces as exclusive, other than during special events, at which [00:04:16] time he will staff an area in the parking lot and make sure that that number of parking [00:04:25] spaces are available for his patrons. [00:04:28] Good evening, Mr. Mayor, City Council. [00:04:35] It's good to be back in front of you. [00:04:37] It's only kind of fitting that it's Groundhog Day, I guess, to be back here. [00:04:43] One of the things that Ms. Manns and Mr. Rivera asked me to do is to talk about, I guess there [00:04:48] was some discussion on whether or not it made sense for the city to reconsider possibly [00:04:55] the extension of Nebraska Avenue over to intersect with Lincoln Road or Lincoln Street. [00:05:04] As an urban designer, I would normally be a proponent of an idea like that, of cleaning [00:05:08] up and straightening out a grid. [00:05:11] Given the fact that it T-intersects with Lincoln, and it's right there at the river, I'm not [00:05:18] sure there's any real urban benefit of that, but one of the things I did, instead of just [00:05:24] taking a guess at myself, I wanted to walk you through the existing plan, some of the [00:05:31] issues that the existing plan solves, but then also we took a look at the alternatives. [00:05:36] So if you look at what's up on the screen, that's sort of an overlay of the new layout [00:05:42] on the lot. [00:05:44] The lot was a lot of some regular spaces, a lot of disarray of some of the spaces on [00:05:50] the western edge, but we were able to clean it up. [00:05:53] There was about 90 spaces in the existing lot, and the new plan yields about 106 spaces. [00:05:59] So that's about an 18 to 20% increase in parking on that. [00:06:06] If you go to the next slide, it's kind of hard to see, but if I can get my pointer here, [00:06:15] the big issue here is the idea is to straighten Nebraska out and intersect, as I mentioned [00:06:20] over here, with Lincoln Street. [00:06:24] As Nebraska comes over here, take that curve out and clean up and straighten out the grid. [00:06:30] The real issue here with this, as you can see on this green line, it's a sanitary line [00:06:35] that needs to be replaced, if you do that. [00:06:38] So that would be quite a bit of an undertaking, and in looking at how this would all come [00:06:46] forth, we did some preliminary studies on, okay, if we move that forward, what would [00:06:53] we yield here? [00:06:54] So if you go to the next slide, you know, we gave it a pretty sincere look, but if you [00:06:59] looked at it so, you would straighten Nebraska out, intersect with Lincoln, Bank Street would [00:07:07] come in as an access, and you'd gain some additional parking spaces here. [00:07:12] The net gain is about 35 spaces. [00:07:16] The pond would have to be expanded. [00:07:19] Overall, it sounds good as itself, but as we looked into it a little deeper, the pond [00:07:28] would have to expand. [00:07:30] You've got a very good bid right now. [00:07:33] You've got a bid, I believe the low bid is like $722,000 for the 106 spaces, so that [00:07:42] nets out, simple math as an architect, it's about $7,000 a space. [00:07:47] So if you go to the next slide, we did a little math, and if you look at the existing [00:07:53] bids at about $7,000 a space, your net gain of 35 spaces, if you were to redo the plans, [00:08:01] you'd be spending, you know, right around $245,000 just to get those additional spaces. [00:08:08] And quite honestly, I don't think you'll get that price again in this market. [00:08:12] We'd have to do redesign and reengineering, and so there'd be a cost associated with that, [00:08:19] with relocation of the utility line, extension of the street. [00:08:23] The street extension, the new street, runs about $1,600 a lineal foot. [00:08:28] That's asphalt, curb, sidewalks, landscaping, lighting, the whole ball of wax. [00:08:35] So that extension alone is about another $430,000 that would exclude there. [00:08:42] So in and of itself, you'd be spending about $800,000 for those 35 spaces, and that shows [00:08:50] about a $22,000, $23,000 cost per space, and that doesn't include the property purchase [00:08:58] and that utility relocation. [00:09:00] So you'd be in the neighborhood of $30,000 to $35,000, if not more, per space for surface [00:09:08] parking. [00:09:09] You can build structured parking for that cost, and you are building that. [00:09:14] I'm not sure what your costs are on your new garage over by Kaiser, out by the interstate, [00:09:21] but you're going to have a supply there, and that's within a reasonable walking distance [00:09:25] of your downtown. [00:09:26] It's within a five-minute walk or so. [00:09:30] So in essence, in looking at this, I don't think I can recommend to you that this is [00:09:37] a worthwhile effort. [00:09:39] Just that this cost alone and what it would do, you've got a complete set of documents [00:09:44] now that have been permitted, bid with a great price, and as a professional, I would recommend [00:09:50] that you move forward with that. [00:09:53] I have a... [00:09:54] Do you have drawings of the parking lot to show this evening? [00:09:58] I do not, but I know you have a complete set. [00:10:01] I didn't bring the complete set, but if you go back a slide or one more, it's hard to [00:10:11] read, but that is the layout in there shows, again, we're accessing, we're actually gaining [00:10:20] additional... [00:10:21] Whoops. [00:10:22] All right. [00:10:23] Where are we going? [00:10:25] You're gaining some additional spaces along Missouri as well. [00:10:28] Yes, here, the pond, all the natural flow of the site, we've got a retention pond here. [00:10:34] That pond would have to expand. [00:10:35] Like I said, the west side of the site wasn't really structured parking or organized parking. [00:10:43] It was a lot of just park as you can. [00:10:46] But through this, you have handicap parking, you've got some electrical charge vehicles. [00:10:53] But honestly, Kimley-Horne has done a great job, and I think you have a nice project here. [00:10:58] But I didn't bring the entire... [00:11:00] I'll have to provide that. [00:11:08] I have a couple of questions. [00:11:10] Why would the sanctuary sewer have to be relocated if it's going under a city parking lot? [00:11:21] That would be obviously your choice. [00:11:24] Normally, utilities are located in the rights of way. [00:11:28] The city does own it, so it is city property. [00:11:30] So that would be your call. [00:11:34] I would turn to Mr. Rivera and such on how the city would like to handle that. [00:11:40] It's not... [00:11:41] I don't think it would be demanded, but you'd want to have access to that at any given time. [00:11:48] If you have to access it, obviously you'd disrupt the parking lot and remove those spaces. [00:11:53] Second question I would have is, is there... [00:11:55] It's hard to tell because this is almost useless. [00:12:03] But is there anything going with the existing proposal that would preclude a council in [00:12:10] the future from squaring things off? [00:12:13] Oh, no. [00:12:14] I mean, nothing, again... [00:12:18] It might be helpful to show the models that the master planning consultant has prepared [00:12:28] with some options of how it could be squared off. [00:12:30] Maybe go back to that very first slide, might actually... [00:12:32] You might be able to read that a little bit. [00:12:34] Well, that's even hard to read, too, with the aerial. [00:12:38] But that is the new layout. [00:12:39] You can see there's basically, you know, the handicapped parking spaces are here. [00:12:43] The electric charge stations are there. [00:12:46] Regular parking here. [00:12:48] Then it angled off, so that's... [00:12:52] Here's the access here from the west side, access from the east side here, and up off [00:12:57] of Nebraska Avenue. [00:12:59] So the ability to, if you obtain this property and extend the road, there would be nothing [00:13:08] to disclude you from expanding this. [00:13:12] It would be just this edge of the parking would be disrupted, and then the pond that [00:13:18] takes on the additional use of this space would have to be expanded. [00:13:23] In actuality, the master plan consultant has proposed some options where the space is actually [00:13:30] minimally impacted if we were to be able to go forward and buy a portion of the property. [00:13:38] That's not it. [00:13:39] Next slide. [00:13:40] There we go. [00:13:41] What are we looking at here? [00:13:51] That is a building which would be constructed fronting Main Street with an elbow onto Lincoln, [00:14:01] Nebraska Street punching through, and some additional parking being constructed in the [00:14:09] triangle that would be created by punching Nebraska through. [00:14:16] This is just another alternative of how the lot could be laid out. [00:14:22] What we show tended to keep the parking more east and west versus north-south, but this [00:14:27] could work as well. [00:14:28] You can see they've shown a small expansion of the pond here. [00:14:32] I'm not sure if that would capture it all, and you'd be able to maybe take those spaces. [00:14:37] In either scenario, the expansion of the parking lot is readily available. [00:14:43] Again, whether or not the property... [00:14:46] This is a developable block as that comes away, or if you have the entire property as [00:14:52] well. [00:14:53] Let's look at... [00:14:56] There's two other options. [00:15:00] possibilities. This is option two, which is just a little bit different in how we [00:15:08] treat the property spanning from Lincoln Street to the water. And then the next [00:15:16] option, which sets the building back further from Main Street, takes advantage [00:15:25] of some tree preservation on the property and establishes some [00:15:30] pedestrian seating along Main Street. And although it's not shown in great detail, [00:15:36] they are providing parking in the triangle of Nebraska Avenue on this [00:15:44] design as well. That sets the building way back from the street, way back from Main Street. [00:15:53] The whole thing we're trying to do is to fill that in so it's walkable. [00:15:58] That's a nice park setting right across the street from the [00:16:03] hotel. I mean, it's not either one of these scenarios, option one or option [00:16:08] three, I think, or two for that matter. They all, I think, contribute great to the [00:16:14] urban core and Main Streets. But the point which I was trying to make is [00:16:21] that if you are to run Nebraska continually west, the cost and expense of [00:16:30] just doing that to gain additional parking is quite a costly venture. [00:16:37] And it probably wouldn't cost any more if you waited and did that at a later time. [00:16:41] It probably, you know, wouldn't save a lot of money to be doing it now. [00:16:45] Yeah, yeah, there's no doubt. You got a very good bid right now in your hands. [00:16:50] But you're right, as you go forward, construction values are escalating, you [00:16:55] all may know better, probably at about six or eight percent annually. So again, I [00:17:02] would normally be a big advocate of that extension and straightening that [00:17:06] out, but if it's done purely for the motivation of additional parking, those [00:17:11] are very costly parking spaces. Yeah, yeah, please. I know you mentioned Groundhog [00:17:19] Day to start. I guess we had six more weeks of winter, so I guess I'm going to [00:17:23] run on that and say we really need six more weeks. Not us here in Florida, that's only those [00:17:27] people up in Pennsylvania. Well, just to use that as a parable, what's, I guess I [00:17:34] would ask, we have two other plans that are ongoing right now. One is with the [00:17:40] Regional Planning Council, which I think we're going to see in a month. The other [00:17:43] is with DeSmoldreau, who's also been doing master planning. And then [00:17:47] thirdly, we have a property owner who has indicated he was going to get going or [00:17:52] not, and I'm guessing none of those folks, where you work with any of those [00:17:57] three folks, in response in developing your proposal here? No. So that's my [00:18:04] point. I think that, you know, to the degree that we have a good bid, I would [00:18:10] suggest that we try to talk to that individual and hold off until we have a [00:18:16] chance to see those other plans. Because if the developer came in, for example, and [00:18:20] I'm on the Resiliency Council at the Regional Planning Council, and that's a [00:18:25] big issue, and some of these properties in a high-hazard area, as the mayor [00:18:29] mentioned, the spot of that building in your design or in that drawing there [00:18:35] would have to be a second story because of the way that the river drops [00:18:41] precipitously behind the building that's there right now. And it's nice that you've [00:18:49] given us something to look at. We're going to get two other people giving us [00:18:52] stuff to look at. And as you advised what the cost of the parking spaces are, [00:18:57] you mentioned we pick up about 16 spaces. So if you divide $800,000 or $900,000 or [00:19:04] whatever we will have put in the project as a whole by 16 additional spaces, that [00:19:09] the cost, the marginal cost of the extra spaces is high. So I like the [00:19:16] drawing. I like that you're involved because I respect you greatly. I just [00:19:23] feel like, from a timing standpoint, I would love to see and hear what the [00:19:29] developer of the property is willing to do. There's been discussion of having him [00:19:35] build on the other side of the river, and we've got a whole nother project over [00:19:39] there. I appreciate this coming from Penny Propasco, so it's not a CRA issue, [00:19:46] so it is a City Council issue. And I'm sure it would be an improvement, lighting. [00:19:52] We've also got the opportunity to pick up land, potentially from the county, off of [00:19:58] Missouri Avenue, right behind the dull set back there, for which we could [00:20:04] probably pick up 30 or 40 spaces. So I think it's, to me, it's not a parking [00:20:11] space question. We're going to have 200 spaces in the new parking garage when we [00:20:15] get it done, as much as it is trying to coordinate all of our planning efforts [00:20:21] together. So you've done, you've given us some great food for thought. My feeling [00:20:26] is we see how long that the bid is willing to hold its bid, and we try to [00:20:33] look at and find out what our stakeholders are going to do, because [00:20:39] spending money on public infrastructure is great. Getting private investment [00:20:45] to come along with it is even better. It's a goal. And so I would love to get the [00:20:51] response of the property owner, learn of his willingness to do a trade, or look at [00:20:57] straightening the road out, because really it is more the parking spaces to [00:21:02] me. Is there another option beyond this option three? These are the three options [00:21:07] that were presented by Arnett Muldrow. Okay. I don't know why I was thinking there was a fourth option. [00:21:13] I think the fourth option will be the Regional Planning Council, who's given us a flyover. [00:21:19] Is that coming up in February, March? I think I saw something come in from Sarah today, didn't it, Charles? [00:21:25] Yeah, we have an update next week, a video conference session. So I don't know how long we can hold this just to try to get some of those other factors in. [00:21:37] But certainly, improving our city is a great thing, and thank you for your work. [00:21:42] Matt, any thoughts? I don't have any issues with waiting and seeing some other things, as long as it doesn't run the price of the project up. [00:21:53] I mean, I think we need to have a, you know, if there's any way they can give us some kind of a date or something. [00:21:59] I think they usually do. We have what, 45 days, I believe it is? 45? 45 days to hold the price. [00:22:12] So, you know, I wasn't on the council when this was first, ideas were presented, and the results of the parking study about the needed spaces for the downtown core area. [00:22:29] And I looked at it, trying to see, well, you know, how many spaces are we really going to gain? [00:22:35] And the study was done prior to the knowledge that we were building a parking garage with 200 spaces down there. [00:22:42] So initially, I was thinking, you know, do we really need this? We talked about a [00:22:48] pedestrian mall in Railroad Square, and maybe could that continue on down through Nebraska Avenue. [00:22:56] And where the parking lot now is might be suitable for future development. [00:23:05] And my idea was, you know, maybe the parking shouldn't necessarily be there, but be moved [00:23:11] further south, and acquire property south of the existing parking lot, leaving this [00:23:17] property available for development. So I expressed that idea and talked to some folks about that, [00:23:23] and been thinking about it. I did a little unofficial survey study myself, for example, [00:23:33] recently on a Thursday night, went down and just saw how full that parking lot was, to see how full [00:23:40] the Gloria Swanson parking lot was. And on a Thursday night downtown, there was like 22 spaces, [00:23:48] all spaces but 22 were used in this parking lot. There was only about 25 spaces in the [00:23:53] Gloria Swanson parking lot used at that same time. So, but it made me pause for a minute, [00:24:00] thinking, well, you know, a couple things. Here we are, middle of COVID, it's a Thursday night, [00:24:06] we're still pretty full, and what would it be like post-COVID, so forth. So maybe we do need [00:24:13] the additional spaces. Then I thought about also just how long would it take for redevelopment of [00:24:19] the existing parking lot if we were going to move it, right? And I really think that's so far down [00:24:23] the road. We have existing other real estate, and we have buildings that's available if there's [00:24:30] people want to move into and place their business downtown. There's some still spaces available. [00:24:36] I think that might be a while for that to occur, because we're also looking at maybe some [00:24:42] redevelopment going further west on Main Street. So my original idea, you know, kind of came [00:24:49] full circle back around, and my conclusion was it may make sense to go ahead and [00:25:00] redevelop this parking lot and gain the extra spaces. I'm not necessarily crazy about [00:25:07] the building being out there on the lot on Main Street. I'd have to see exactly what that would [00:25:17] pertain. I'd have some maybe ideas for that to be more green space or something else. [00:25:22] So coming back to the parking lot, I would agree with Matt in that if we can [00:25:29] see something else and still preserve that, sure, let's look at another idea. [00:25:33] But as it sits now, the pricing to redo that parking lot, and we've seen in [00:25:41] samples what the parking lot's going to look like. We've seen glorious Swanson. I think it's [00:25:45] design-wise is very similar to that. Am I right, Robert? Is that the parking lot's going to look [00:25:51] similar, right? And while it's serviceable now, it's dark, it's pitted, it definitely needs some [00:25:57] work. So I'd be very much interested in seeing the parking lot, you know, redeveloped into [00:26:08] similar to the plan you have here. I would like to see, if we have time, because initially [00:26:15] some numbers were more understood to seem to be way expensive, [00:26:20] $700,000 for this parking lot compared to the cost we spent on glorious Swanson, [00:26:25] this one was likely to be a deal. I'd like to open it up for some public comment, and Frank, [00:26:32] if you don't mind me putting you on the spot, since they talked about that one building [00:26:38] potentially being pushed off of Main Street, if you could talk to that from an urban designer's [00:26:45] standpoint. Good evening, Frank Starkey, 5742 Main Street and 5939 Grand Boulevard. [00:26:56] I think those are great concept studies. My reaction looking at those three was that [00:27:06] the ideal would be about, see on the bank building to the right, how there's a little [00:27:13] shoulder in that building there, I would have that building about that far back off the street, [00:27:20] so kind of between here and between where it is shown there and the option that has it all the [00:27:24] way up at the sidewalk. Another possibility that I've thought of is that if you look at the [00:27:32] footprint of the Hacienda, which is just off of this drawing, it's a U-shaped courtyard on this [00:27:38] side, that could be mirrored on the other side of the street with the legs of it pulled up closer [00:27:43] to the street, but mirroring that courtyard. Sometimes if you pull the facade of the building [00:27:54] back a little bit, you create corners, which are hot corners for retail because they've got better [00:28:04] visibility. Then the courtyard itself can be outdoor seating or a forecourt to retail places. [00:28:12] The other thing I like about this one, which I had thought of, and this almost does it, [00:28:17] but if you look at that big square at the lower right-hand corner, that looks like that might be [00:28:22] a tower. If you imagine standing back by the theater, that would terminate that vista. [00:28:31] That doesn't mean it's the end, but that could be a nice landmark, which helps people orient [00:28:40] themselves and find their way around town, meet me at the tower, those kinds of things. [00:28:46] Cinderella's Castle is the classic example of that. There's a hint in this one on west of Lincoln [00:28:56] Street of a promenade going down to the river that's not connected from Nebraska Avenue to the [00:29:03] east of Bank Street, but I could see that being a walkway that can move around. It doesn't have to [00:29:11] be a straight line, but it can be a sequence of spaces that goes around that tower that connects [00:29:19] Nebraska Avenue and Railroad Square all the way as far east as Adam Street, [00:29:25] all the way down to the river. As a sequence of spaces that are more or less linear, but not [00:29:35] necessarily a dead shot straight line or dead straight line down to the river, I think that [00:29:41] could be pretty wonderful. That's a very long answer to your question. I would push the building [00:29:46] a little bit closer to the street, not all the way up to it, maybe not that far back, and I would [00:29:51] look at the connection between Railroad Square and the river. Or something that responds to that. [00:30:00] any thought about that, but that's an interesting concept. [00:30:04] Yeah, I think maybe just while you're up there, Frank, [00:30:09] the whole point that I was trying to make [00:30:10] is that we've been talking for, and actually, I [00:30:13] was the guy who recruited Grady Pridgen into New Port Richey in about 2004. [00:30:19] And that's how long he's had that property. [00:30:22] And as recently as three weeks ago, [00:30:25] he took a gander at the 3D imagery [00:30:29] that's going to be presented to us on the west side. [00:30:35] So just in particular for Mike and my colleagues [00:30:41] who weren't there originally, he had always [00:30:45] wanted a lot of height downtown. [00:30:48] And that was one of the things that held him back. [00:30:50] And I know that was one of the first things [00:30:52] that our city manager was contending with when he came [00:30:56] in and what he wanted. [00:30:58] He has an appetite for something on a larger [00:31:02] scale with more height. [00:31:05] And that's why I would love at least [00:31:09] to go through the exercise, finding the date, [00:31:13] setting the council meeting in time, [00:31:15] because obviously we've got the support to move forward. [00:31:20] But finding the date, setting that, [00:31:21] and then trying to draw the property owner in. [00:31:24] Because we're talking about a parking lot that is surrounded [00:31:27] to the south by what has been a commercial property, [00:31:31] now is a residential property with a big white [00:31:33] can't-see-through fence on the corner. [00:31:36] One of our worst rental properties [00:31:43] on Missouri Avenue, which is directly [00:31:46] to the south of the parking lot currently. [00:31:50] And so I think that if we're doing this [00:31:53] to foster development around it, and we [00:31:55] have a developer who seems to be ready, [00:31:57] the best circumstance would be for us to do a trade [00:32:01] and for us to find someone like yourself or whoever [00:32:07] who's into the more historically compatible product [00:32:16] to try to do something with that property. [00:32:18] Because I know his intentions was [00:32:19] to take every piece of land he had and build something on it. [00:32:25] And I know Debbie is nodding over there. [00:32:28] So it's just important to me that we [00:32:30] try to entice development while we're putting this money in. [00:32:34] That's the whole concept behind a public-private partnership. [00:32:38] If we go ahead forward, then there's [00:32:40] nothing for us to offer to incentivize somebody. [00:32:44] So anyway, that would be my wish. [00:32:48] I would recommend, if it's Grady or if it ends up [00:32:54] in the city's hands and you put it up to RFP, [00:33:00] I wouldn't worry about developing [00:33:03] these plans in much greater detail than they already are. [00:33:06] I'm sure Arnett Muldrew may be already doing that. [00:33:09] But it's still a schematic level. [00:33:12] And then leave it up to an RFP. [00:33:15] Maybe develop some principles, like we'd [00:33:18] like to have a connection between Railroad [00:33:20] Square and the river. [00:33:21] And we'd like to have some activated use on the river, [00:33:24] using that piece. [00:33:26] And do something that connects. [00:33:28] It is important, it's critical, to connect [00:33:31] the walkability of Main Street from Bank Street East [00:33:37] to the river. [00:33:38] Because it's a big gap. [00:33:42] Yeah, from Bank Street to the other side of the bridge [00:33:45] is almost 1,000 feet, which is a long. [00:33:50] Pedestrians are known to turn around and go home, [00:33:53] or go back the other direction, if they [00:33:55] pass 50 feet of nothing. [00:33:57] There's got to be something really drawing them past that. [00:34:00] And right now, if you're walking down Main Street, [00:34:02] you get to Bank Street, you're at the end of the world. [00:34:05] So you need something to really propel pedestrians [00:34:09] to get to the bridge, and then across the bridge, which [00:34:12] is also kind of a long hike on foot. [00:34:16] If you're wondering what I'm talking about, [00:34:18] go have a drink at Ordnance One, and then [00:34:20] think about walking to the Denton Keg for the next one. [00:34:23] And then having to walk home after that, [00:34:26] it might kind of dulls the shine. [00:34:29] Fortunately, Denton Keg is a worthy destination. [00:34:33] But so that would be another principle, is connect that. [00:34:39] But I would leave it up to the developers, [00:34:43] and don't over-design that and fall in love with it, [00:34:47] because you're likely to do something that's [00:34:50] not going to be practical. [00:34:52] Do you have any other thoughts? [00:34:54] No, no, I just would like to, I mean, [00:34:56] if we've got some other things we can look at, [00:34:58] let's look at them and set something up. [00:35:01] Yeah, just three questions. [00:35:02] So this design here, we've got the little triangle coming out. [00:35:07] I'm just curious that, I guess I'd [00:35:10] ask the architecture designers, that if we did square that out, [00:35:14] by not squaring it out, that would probably [00:35:17] leave a developer more options to do something [00:35:21] with that property, because if they [00:35:23] have to do retention or something else like that, [00:35:26] we would allow a larger project there [00:35:28] than if we squared it out. [00:35:30] Would that be true? [00:35:31] I think that's a fair statement. [00:35:33] I'd also ask, one of the questions I was contemplating [00:35:36] is, if you are to square this off and add [00:35:38] the additional 35 plus or minus spaces to that, [00:35:43] will those spaces be able to be utilized [00:35:46] for the development of that block? [00:35:47] Because, again, as you're restricting his land, [00:35:51] the ability for him to park whatever product a developer [00:35:55] may put on that, you're going to need parking. [00:35:57] So that would be the question there as well. [00:35:59] I think a valid thought. [00:36:03] Another question I had is probably not that necessarily relevant, [00:36:07] but I'm just curious. [00:36:08] The pond, this would be set up that it would have water in it [00:36:12] all the time, or is it just retention, and would it be fenced? [00:36:16] I believe it's a dry pond. [00:36:18] It's a dry pond, so it's just basically [00:36:19] take stormwater runoff. [00:36:21] So would it be required to be fenced? [00:36:23] No. [00:36:23] OK. [00:36:25] And I forgot my third question, so I'll pass. [00:36:29] You sort of walked in on this late. [00:36:31] Any thoughts? [00:36:32] There's a piece of property probably where the NEB is in Nebraska. [00:36:42] Is that still for sale there? [00:36:45] Does anybody know? [00:36:47] The NEB. [00:36:47] Which one? [00:36:48] The NE and the B of Nebraska? [00:36:50] Yeah, the NEB and the B of Nebraska. [00:36:53] There's a piece of property there. [00:36:55] It's all owned by the same party? [00:36:57] No, on the south side. [00:36:58] On the south side there, there's been a lot there for sale for a while. [00:37:02] Missouri, you're asking, then? [00:37:04] Yeah, not Nebraska, but Missouri. [00:37:06] Missouri? [00:37:07] Nebraska's the parking lot that's there now. [00:37:09] Oh, OK. [00:37:11] Are you talking this area here or down there? [00:37:13] Down there. [00:37:15] Yeah, because this is all, right now, city and county owned, and this is? [00:37:20] It's not there. [00:37:21] Next to the A-Club? [00:37:22] And while you're thinking, I did remember my third question, [00:37:32] and maybe this goes to Debbie. [00:37:34] Is that this property is jointly owned by the city and the county? [00:37:39] How are we going to take full ownership of that property that's owned by the county? [00:37:46] How are we going to work that? [00:37:49] We currently have an agreement with the county, [00:37:53] which allows us the opportunity to make improvements on the property. [00:37:59] We have had discussions with the county about the future of their building [00:38:07] and the parking lot, and they have made a verbal commitment, [00:38:11] at least the county administrator has made a verbal commitment to me, [00:38:16] that the property will be exchanged and given to the city. [00:38:25] That has not occurred yet. [00:38:27] I expect, though, that that will happen within the next three months. [00:38:32] Mr. Mayor? [00:38:33] Yeah, and please forgive me, because I've [00:38:36] had discussions with Mr. Pritchett ever since before he bought in town. [00:38:41] And as recently, he'd always expressed an interest as well. [00:38:46] And Debbie, I believe he's conveyed that to you [00:38:50] in being able to do something with the building on Bank Street [00:38:53] if and when we got it. [00:38:54] So he was envisioning all what he would have liked to have done there. [00:39:01] To me, once again, it's important to see what Mr. Pritchett wants to do, [00:39:09] because what he has told me is he's effectively [00:39:13] going to use that entire property and develop it to the best he can, [00:39:16] to make the most he can, as any individual who owns something would. [00:39:20] But he has been privy and seen some of the city's vision. [00:39:24] And I don't know if we hire a third party who's [00:39:27] good at public-private partnerships, or if we just get him in here. [00:39:31] And Debbie, you can talk with him. [00:39:33] But I think while we're looking at these pictures, [00:39:37] he's got plans that would make all of that not possible to do, [00:39:41] because he's already got something sketched out, [00:39:44] I think, is what he had intended to do with the property. [00:39:46] But he had expressed a willingness to look. [00:39:50] So I'm pleading that we take advantage of the 45 days [00:39:56] that we activate ourselves to speak to the property owner [00:40:00] so that all of us know what his intentions are, [00:40:03] because we're excited about what Frank just told us. [00:40:06] But that may not be a reality the minute he puts a building permit in [00:40:11] that meets the city's standards. [00:40:13] And I think he's willing and interested in participating. [00:40:16] So I think this is a great thing, because he doesn't have to wait. [00:40:20] Usually, it's like, well, it'll take forever. [00:40:21] It's like, the city is ready and postured [00:40:24] to make improvements next to your property. [00:40:27] And we've got improvement spending in other places. [00:40:29] I can't see doing this without his input. [00:40:32] Where's he at? [00:40:33] Yeah. [00:40:34] I actually was due to receive a phone call from Grady Pridgen this morning. [00:40:38] For whatever reason, I didn't connect with him. [00:40:41] But I'll make sure to connect with him tomorrow. [00:40:43] And I'll give you a report in your city manager's writing [00:40:48] as to what has occurred. [00:40:49] Thank you. [00:40:51] That's great. [00:40:51] It's on the south side of Missouri. [00:40:53] Yeah, south side of Missouri. [00:40:54] But I'm just saying, if we're going to develop that corner, [00:40:57] is there a need for that piece of property? [00:40:59] I think it's about $25,000. [00:41:01] Useful. [00:41:04] Anything else? [00:41:05] I would ask Mr. Rudd, the consultants, are they developing, I forget, [00:41:10] are they developing design guidelines as well? [00:41:14] They're reviewing our guidelines and make comment [00:41:16] whether they need some minor tweaks or to adopt as. [00:41:21] The comments Mr. Starkey made were right on, [00:41:24] as far as where if setbacks take place, how they set back, [00:41:31] view terminuses, if the property's going to remain the same, [00:41:35] connection of Nebraska and Railroad Square to the water. [00:41:38] Those are all very important features that Mr. Pridgen or any developer [00:41:44] should bring to bear. [00:41:47] Do you have enough direction for moving forward? [00:41:51] Be interesting to hear from him just how anxious he is. [00:41:56] I mean, it's been 17 years. [00:41:58] And so let's get on with it. [00:42:00] If you can do something, let's get on with it. [00:42:02] Lots happened in that time. [00:42:03] If there's nothing else, we'll adjourn this meeting and regroup

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3. 3Adjournment