On the agenda

1. 1Call to Order - Roll Call▶ 0:00
2. 2

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   Discussion on Waste Hauling

   discussed

   Staff presented a work session on solid waste hauling, recommending the city move from its current six-hauler subscription-based system to a single exclusive franchise hauler selected via RFP, and shift billing to a special assessment on the tax roll. Staff cited an audit showing ~1,900 city addresses without trash service and underpayment of franchise fees, road damage from multiple heavy trucks, and inconsistent special pickup services. Council discussed the proposal, with a public hearing scheduled for February 2 to start the statutory three-year notice process.

   • direction:Staff recommended moving to a single exclusive waste hauler via RFP and billing trash service through a special assessment on the tax roll; a public hearing is scheduled for February 2 to begin the statutory three-year notice process. (none)

   📍Wiles subdivision🏢County Citation🏢Peterson Services Corporation👤Brian👤Crystal Feast👤Debbie Manns👤Pete Altman👤Robert Rivera👤Rod Hale#10% franchise fee#Complaint ombudsman / GPS and video camera requirements in RFP#Franchise fee audit#Public hearing February 2#Single hauler franchise system#Special assessment billing on tax roll#Three-year statutory notice for exclusive franchise#Yard debris collection

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   [00:00:18] First item on the agenda is discussion of waste hauling. [00:00:23] Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council. [00:00:25] The reason that we wanted to conduct a work session this [00:00:34] evening is to talk a little bit about our solid waste disposal [00:00:38] program. [00:00:39] To begin, we thought it would be important to tell you [00:00:42] a little bit about what we've done so far, [00:00:46] and then to describe for you our current system, [00:00:51] and then to talk about some of the advantages [00:00:55] and the disadvantages of our current system, [00:00:59] and specifically to talk about two of the things [00:01:02] that we think need to happen and what [00:01:07] we'd like to have done to address [00:01:09] some of the deficiencies that we'll talk about in respect [00:01:13] to the system. [00:01:14] And what we've done so far from a staff's perspective, [00:01:17] and it's involved largely Robert Rivera, Rod Hale, [00:01:23] and Crystal Feast, is we've conducted preliminary meetings [00:01:27] with all of the waste haulers that [00:01:30] provide service in the city. [00:01:32] And there are six of them that provide service currently [00:01:37] in the city. [00:01:38] And we've analyzed all of the variables related [00:01:46] to their service delivery in the city. [00:01:48] And Robert will present for you a PowerPoint which [00:01:52] will identify some of the specifics of their service [00:01:58] as part of our presentation to you tonight. [00:02:03] The other thing that we did was we [00:02:06] performed an audit of the franchise fees [00:02:11] that are paid to the city by the service providers. [00:02:17] They're all required to pay 10% of their revenues to the city. [00:02:27] And we found some very interesting things [00:02:31] out as a result of that audit. [00:02:35] One of the most interesting was that a number, [00:02:40] a considerable number of residents in the city [00:02:44] do not subscribe to any trash service at all. [00:02:47] That number was 1,900 or nearly 1,900 addresses [00:02:53] in the city, which leads to question, [00:02:57] what do they do with their solid, their garbage, [00:03:04] their trash, their refuse? [00:03:06] Do they take it to work? [00:03:08] Do they put it in their neighbor's trash? [00:03:12] Or do they dispose of it in another manner [00:03:16] and we end up picking it up in another part of the community? [00:03:21] We also learned that the providers are not [00:03:26] transmitting an appropriate amount [00:03:29] to the city in franchise fees. [00:03:32] And some of that is the result of the fact [00:03:35] that they don't have a clear accounting of what [00:03:40] is within the geographic boundaries of the city [00:03:44] and what properties are not within the geographic boundaries [00:03:47] of the city. [00:03:51] The things that we want to talk to you specifically about [00:03:55] tonight are awarding a single franchise [00:03:59] for solid waste collection throughout the city. [00:04:04] In order to do that, there are three steps [00:04:08] involved in the process. [00:04:10] First, we have to conduct a public hearing in order [00:04:14] to do that. [00:04:15] We have scheduled a public hearing [00:04:17] to be conducted on February 2. [00:04:21] And if we conduct that public hearing, [00:04:24] that would satisfy the statutory requirement to do that. [00:04:28] And that would start a timetable. [00:04:31] The timetable would be used then [00:04:35] to provide for notice to the service providers of our intent [00:04:44] to enter into an exclusive service arrangement [00:04:49] with one of the providers. [00:04:51] And it would give us time for arrangements [00:04:56] to be made on all of the logistics that [00:04:58] need to occur to include letting [00:05:01] a request for proposals and establishing [00:05:07] all of the minimum specifications [00:05:09] that we would want to include in a competitive solicitation [00:05:15] for haulers. [00:05:18] The second part of what we'll be proposing to you this evening [00:05:24] is we would like to establish the billing for service [00:05:29] as a special assessment to be included on the tax [00:05:39] rolls of the city. [00:05:44] There's two reasons principally for doing that. [00:05:47] One is that it ensures that franchise fees are [00:05:51] paid appropriately. [00:05:53] It also ensures that everyone has trash service in the city. [00:05:58] It also reduces the amount of bad debt [00:06:03] that the service providers carry. [00:06:07] And it could serve as a source of revenue [00:06:13] to the city's general fund. [00:06:16] This would also reduce overhead costs of a service provider. [00:06:24] And they, in turn, could reduce their cost to their customers, [00:06:29] our residents, for trash service in the city. [00:06:36] I'll let Robert jump into the PowerPoint presentation, which [00:06:40] we provided a copy. [00:06:43] I'm sorry, Brian, did you have something [00:06:45] you wanted to say? [00:06:46] Before you do that, Mr. Altman's phone call fell off. [00:06:49] And I want to make sure we dial back in for him, which [00:06:52] will disrupt your PowerPoint. [00:06:55] OK, so why don't you go ahead and call Mr. Altman. [00:07:02] Probably went through Minnesota to get to Miami. [00:07:10] Hello. [00:07:12] OK, Pete, we're just about to jump into a PowerPoint [00:07:16] presentation that's going to talk about our current system [00:07:19] and some of the advantages and disadvantages of it. [00:07:24] Thank you. [00:07:25] Robert, I'm reading it. [00:07:26] OK. [00:07:28] Thank you, Ms. Manns. [00:07:30] And so I wanted to give you just an overview. [00:07:32] And I apologize if I repeat some of the things [00:07:34] that Ms. Manns has brought up. [00:07:36] But we'll put everything together and go from there. [00:07:40] So our recommendations that we are bringing to you today [00:07:43] are like Ms. Manns had said, that we move to a single [00:07:46] hauler and that we incorporate the billing for the services [00:07:50] through our special assessments. [00:07:52] Now, the current system that we have is a [00:07:55] subscription-based system. [00:07:57] And so we have six haulers that are in the city. [00:08:00] Five of them do perform residential service. [00:08:05] And of course, their routes are all over the city, not [00:08:08] just in one zone. [00:08:10] And the amount that is charged to the customers is the [00:08:13] maximum that the county allows each hauler to haul. [00:08:17] And they all are charging that maximum, which is $18.49 a [00:08:20] month or $55.47 a quarter. [00:08:24] And then in addition to that, they have their 10% franchise [00:08:28] fee that's a pass-through from the hauler to the customer. [00:08:33] And it goes directly to the city. [00:08:35] And the last item on this slide, currently that maximum [00:08:40] rate that the county has does include yard debris pickup. [00:08:44] And I know that that is another subject for another [00:08:48] day, but we just wanted to include it so that you are [00:08:51] aware of everything that that charge incorporates. [00:08:56] While we're right there, do you have a fee that the county [00:08:58] charges for a pickup on that? [00:09:03] It's included in the maximum amount. [00:09:07] So there's items that they're, there's items that [00:09:09] $18.49 or $55.49 includes that pickup? [00:09:13] And how often do they get a special pickup? [00:09:16] Or do they just put it out there with their trash? [00:09:18] They put it outside with their trash under specific [00:09:21] guidelines, bundles, that type of thing. [00:09:24] So it's in bags or trash cans or something? [00:09:26] Correct. [00:09:27] And so as we had mentioned, there currently are six [00:09:30] waste haulers. [00:09:32] Just wanted to show you the ones that are here. [00:09:34] Wanted to tell you that Peterson Services Corporation [00:09:37] does not offer the residential. [00:09:39] They are construction and demolition. [00:09:42] Those are those large roll-off dumpsters that you see. [00:09:45] Those trucks are pretty heavy as well. [00:09:48] And then if you look at county citation, they offer [00:09:51] residential pickup, but they only do the wild subdivision. [00:09:55] And the reason why we bring that up to you is simply [00:09:57] because they bill the HOA. [00:10:00] So the advantage to them are they get several customers, [00:10:04] residential customers, and they don't have to do [00:10:06] individual billing. [00:10:08] They just go one bill, it goes straight to the HOA, and [00:10:11] their chances of collecting on that bill are a lot greater [00:10:14] than they were if they sent out individual ones. [00:10:17] Well, then is this going to be a factor at all since the [00:10:19] HOA hired them? [00:10:22] Not with our notification, if we were to proceed in that [00:10:25] direction. [00:10:25] If we proceed in one, then they're [00:10:26] still a separate entity? [00:10:28] No. [00:10:29] If we proceed with one single hauler, it encompasses the [00:10:32] whole city limits. [00:10:34] It doesn't matter if you're an HOA or an [00:10:37] individual customer. [00:10:38] Have we talked to them yet? [00:10:40] We have, yes. [00:10:41] Are they fine with this? [00:10:42] And do they charge the Wiles 55 per unit there? [00:10:47] I don't know, but when we asked the haulers what they [00:10:51] were charging, they all were charging the max. [00:10:55] But I did not talk with the HOA. [00:10:57] So you talked to the HOA then? [00:10:59] No, we talked to the haulers. [00:11:00] Oh, OK. [00:11:04] So as you're familiar with, the existing program [00:11:07] administration details are basically an annual [00:11:10] application that's submitted for a special permit by the [00:11:13] existing haulers. [00:11:15] That happens in December for a calendar year, and the cost [00:11:18] for that is $500. [00:11:21] Now, as part of that, there are some requirements that the [00:11:24] city has in place, one of them which is the quarterly [00:11:27] customer list that they are supposed to submit. [00:11:30] We have ordinances that call out our trash collection [00:11:34] time frames, days, recyclable trash collection. [00:11:38] Yard debris, again, is included in this as well. [00:11:42] And then, of course, the 10% franchise fee. [00:11:49] So when we looked at the advantage of the existing [00:11:51] system, the one that really stood out was basically the [00:11:55] customers are allowed to contract with whomever they [00:11:58] want to that has those permits to operate for that service in [00:12:03] the city limits. [00:12:04] There are no contracts that are in place. [00:12:07] If a customer wanted to just jump to another company [00:12:13] monthly, they could do that. [00:12:15] If they had a complaint and they didn't like the service, [00:12:17] they could move to another customer. [00:12:20] But there are no penalties and no signed contracts. [00:12:24] And so when we looked at the disadvantages of the existing [00:12:28] system, one of the ones that really stood out, and we've [00:12:31] talked about this before, and it was one of the reasons why [00:12:33] the franchise fees came about, was damage to [00:12:37] the city's infrastructure. [00:12:39] The six haulers could have multiple trucks operating out [00:12:43] on our roads. [00:12:44] Wait a second here. [00:12:46] We're really talking about five, because the [00:12:48] other ones are unique. [00:12:50] So let's leave it at five, unless that sixth one is going [00:12:54] to be going to go to work with one or the other. [00:12:57] No, it would be five. [00:12:58] OK. [00:12:59] So the five waste haulers could be six, though. [00:13:05] I mean, if Peterson is running around with, say, C&D, but on [00:13:09] a standard. [00:13:10] Your proposal, if that's one, you're going to have one for [00:13:13] the CD and then one for trash pickup? [00:13:15] No, we can't mess with C&D. [00:13:19] That's off limits, so he can operate whenever he wants to. [00:13:22] There's no restrictions. [00:13:23] But he could be on the road the same time they're on the [00:13:26] road, but five residential collectors, yes, could be on [00:13:31] the road operating on the same day. [00:13:34] These are heavy trucks, three axles. [00:13:37] Not only are they heavy, but you have that constant [00:13:39] stopping and turning that affects a rapid decline of our [00:13:45] roadways. [00:13:47] As you can see from here, we've got some pictures that [00:13:49] show you the typical damage that we have to our facilities. [00:13:54] Obviously, residential streets are just not designed to take [00:13:57] that type of punishment. [00:14:02] So the audit that Ms. Manson talked about did identify an [00:14:07] estimate of 1,900 residents that were not on the [00:14:10] customers' list. [00:14:12] And in that recommendation summary, it did recommend that [00:14:18] the city go to a single hauler exclusive system. [00:14:23] And it did also recommend that we either bill through the tax [00:14:29] assessment or to put it in our water utility bill. [00:14:34] Are we getting that paper? [00:14:36] For some reason, they're PowerPoint packets. [00:14:37] We don't have another copy of this? [00:14:39] We don't have anything from this paper? [00:14:41] Yeah, the packet wasn't complete for the PowerPoints [00:14:44] that they got. [00:14:46] Yeah, mine says something. [00:14:49] We looked at the screen. [00:14:51] Do you have a complete one? [00:14:54] Here's a complete one. [00:14:55] Insufficient memory. [00:15:00] Do we want to wait? [00:15:06] I don't care about the wait. [00:15:08] We can look at the screen. [00:15:09] Okay. [00:15:10] So the other part of the recommendation was for us to take over the billing but put it in as part of our water utility billing. [00:15:17] We did some homework and we found out that it's illegal to be able to turn somebody's water off if you billed them [00:15:24] and they decided not to pay for their trash collection. [00:15:27] So you really had no recourse. [00:15:29] So if we were to take over the billing, then basically the onus of the payment would fall on the city and not the trash haulers. [00:15:39] So that was why it was our recommendation to, yes, take it over, but to take it over with the tax assessment process. [00:15:48] Again, is the tax assessment, is that going to be once a year then we bill them? [00:15:53] So it would be a buck and a half a year? [00:15:55] Some number, 55 times, is that quarterly? [00:15:59] So it would be $200, $220 a year? [00:16:02] Correct. [00:16:04] But roughly $220 a year? [00:16:06] Correct. [00:16:07] Okay. [00:16:08] There are people out there listening maybe. [00:16:10] So it would be an annual $220 in with their taxes? [00:16:13] Right. [00:16:15] So we ended up talking with the haulers about a lot of this [00:16:19] and one of their inputs, too, was they agreed with it. [00:16:22] And they also said that they thought that if we did go to a single hauler with competitive bids, [00:16:28] that the rates that the customers were experiencing now in all probability would be reduced. [00:16:40] And so, you know, we talked about the first two bullet items. [00:16:45] As far as being disadvantages, the other disadvantage is, again, [00:16:50] the yard debris collection service is not being utilized by the majority of the people. [00:16:55] And we can talk more about that at our other meeting, but I think the reasons are obvious. [00:17:01] The thing that we want to note and call out is that at its current state, [00:17:05] the residents are paying for that service and then they're also paying for the city to pick it up. [00:17:11] So they're paying for a service that they're really not utilizing. [00:17:15] And then, of course, the final disadvantage that we identified was that the special pickups are not consistent with one another. [00:17:25] Some of the haulers charge different by the weight of whatever you want to pick up, whether it's a couch. [00:17:34] Some of them might not pick up white goods while others might. [00:17:38] The frequency of pickups is different, those types of things. [00:17:43] So everybody's paying the same price, but the services are not the same when it comes to certain items. [00:17:51] And so when we looked into the single hauler system process, as Ms. Mance had been talking about, [00:18:01] there is a process called out in the Florida State Guidelines, [00:18:04] and that is a three-year notice to the existing companies. [00:18:10] Now, again, the three years isn't just sitting around and waiting for it. [00:18:15] It is where we do our public notices. [00:18:19] We would expect to go through an RFP process that would allow us to take a look at some of the other counties and cities [00:18:29] that do have single hauler systems, take a look at the different items that are available [00:18:35] and see which one fits our city as well as benefits our residents the most. [00:18:43] And that would give us time to implement that. [00:18:45] It would also give us some time to be able to take and look at the different operations of the existing haulers [00:18:54] and kind of take a look and grade them and find out some of the things that maybe there are some companies [00:19:01] that are using vehicles that are below standard. [00:19:04] So it would give us time to be able to include certain items in RFP that would raise the standard [00:19:10] and raise the service to our residents. [00:19:14] Uniform containers would be something. [00:19:18] When we talk about quality of life, when we talk about services, this is an item that's attractive as well. [00:19:24] It could be implemented. [00:19:25] It doesn't necessarily have to start right away. [00:19:28] But you would stop the bags that are out there where cats can get into and the garbage is all over. [00:19:35] You could take and stop cans that look like they're 20 years old. [00:19:40] And you could have one container versus three containers because somebody has more trash than others. [00:19:48] So it would unify or uniform a lot of that process as well. [00:19:55] Now, we did talk about, and we talked about it with the haulers, [00:19:58] that it's something that maybe we could do some districting before the three-year term comes up. [00:20:07] And their response to us was that they would be open to it, [00:20:12] but that would be something that we would have to come to them with the districts, with the proposal. [00:20:19] All of them would have to agree on it. [00:20:22] But the one thing that they all did agree on that they added to that suggestion was, [00:20:28] if they did agree to something like that, it would just strictly be on a temporary basis, [00:20:32] that because of our size and the amount of residents that we have, it was either open market or single system. [00:20:42] And they all agreed that single system is where everybody's headed, that it's a matter of time, that the pandemic, [00:20:51] if there's one thing that the pandemic has shown us is that the things are changing, [00:20:58] and some of those things are going to be permanent. [00:21:00] An example is people working from home is going to occur. [00:21:04] Just when everything is over with, there's still going to be people that are permanently going to work from home. [00:21:11] The process of people ordering online, the additional cardboard, [00:21:16] those types of things are going to increase the amount of residential debris that's out there. [00:21:22] And so these companies and the way the process is performed is going to have to change with the times. [00:21:29] And a single hall or system provides you that opportunity to adjust. [00:21:36] And all of them, we thought they were going to fall out of their seats [00:21:40] when we talked about what their thoughts were as far as the city taking over for billing services, [00:21:47] and I think those reasons are obvious. [00:21:50] And so when we go down and we want to talk our last slide about the advantages, [00:21:56] we've talked about a few of them, so I won't mention all of them, but obviously a lower cost would be expected. [00:22:02] The rapid decline in some of our roadways would be reduced. [00:22:06] It wouldn't be eliminated, but it would be reduced. [00:22:09] The quality of life that we've talked about that the system offers, [00:22:13] we would get and would expect to get 100 percent of the collection of the service per resident. [00:22:22] That would reduce your illegal dumping. [00:22:25] That would improve the quality of life for our residents. [00:22:28] The city would end up getting additional revenues that would be applied to our revenue [00:22:35] or to our general fund due to the administration of the collection [00:22:39] as well as the 1,900 additional residents that no one knows what they're doing. [00:22:47] And then, of course, we would get a special pickup. [00:22:50] It would all be uniform across the board. [00:22:53] I think one of the things that all of us really like is the complaint ombudsman, [00:22:58] and that could be a local office, but what that would end up doing is it would also help staff. [00:23:06] And what I mean by that is you could have an ombudsman that would be an advocate for a customer [00:23:12] or a resident should they have a complaint. [00:23:15] In our RFP process, we can go ahead and we can call out that these trucks need to have video cameras on them. [00:23:22] They need to all be equipped with GPSs. [00:23:25] And what that does is you have the ombudsman, [00:23:29] you have somebody say that says that the garbage truck hit their mailbox. [00:23:34] The ombudsman goes through everything, looks at the video, [00:23:37] finds out that that mailbox was in its place when the garbage truck left. [00:23:42] Another situation, the GPS. [00:23:45] You could have somebody that calls in and says that they have a complaint that their trash wasn't picked up. [00:23:50] He can go through that timeline, look at the GPS, and see that that truck went in front of that resident's home. [00:23:56] The city doesn't have to be a third-party person trying to help the resident [00:24:02] and work with the garbage collection companies now, and they all operate differently. [00:24:08] This centralizes that. [00:24:10] The great thing about it is our time is reduced, [00:24:13] but then we can also require every six months, every year, [00:24:18] to take in and get a printout of all of those complaints, all of those call-ins, all of those issues, [00:24:26] to where we can still monitor the standard that that company is operating within the city. [00:24:33] And then, of course, these contracts are based on a five-year. [00:24:37] Some of them are five years, and then they have three additional years renewal. [00:24:41] Some of them are seven to eight years, that type of thing, all the way through. [00:24:44] But what that does is it allows us to be able to review their standard of operation [00:24:50] to where, when it comes up to the renewal of those contracts, [00:24:53] we can decide whether or not to renew it or not to. [00:24:58] Who pays the budsman? [00:25:02] The service provider. [00:25:06] And so with that, we will answer any questions that you have, [00:25:10] but obviously our recommendation from what we've seen would be for the city to take over the billing [00:25:16] through the tax roll as well as proceed with the single hauler [00:25:21] and move away from that subscription-based system. [00:25:24] I was surprised they didn't like the idea of just keeping with the zones on a permanent basis. [00:25:30] Their comment to us when we talked about that is the city isn't large enough [00:25:36] for a return on their investment. [00:25:38] And so they would do it in hopes that they would be able to get the contract. [00:25:46] I look at this as three different categories. [00:25:49] I look at one as the billing, one as the garbage pickup, and one as the debris. [00:25:55] Separate that into those three categories. [00:25:58] Because otherwise we're going to start talking about one drift to the other, drift to the other. [00:26:02] And I just want to address each one as an individual, if you don't mind. [00:26:12] The billing, in my opinion, with $1,900, I don't know how many, what's the total number in the city? [00:26:16] Well, 7,000. [00:26:17] 7,000, so we're losing, you know, what, a quarter, a fifth? [00:26:21] Probably a fifth of our billing. [00:26:23] So without any hesitation, I would say let's do that without any question. [00:26:29] I had a question about that in the calculation. [00:26:33] So if we have a triplex or a quadplex, we count that as four, right? [00:26:39] If it's a quadplex, we count it as three as far as addresses? [00:26:44] We're not losing, we're not missing our accounts by doing that, right? [00:26:48] Correct, it's per address. [00:26:51] Now there's a couple of triplexes I've seen in town, they put a dumpster at the end. [00:26:55] And I don't have a problem with that. [00:26:59] You know, we're looking at that. [00:27:03] How are you addressing that? [00:27:08] Every address in the city is required to have trash service, by ordinance. [00:27:13] Okay, so then if the landlord wants to put a dumpster at the end, he's going to pay, still pay for it. [00:27:17] Right. [00:27:18] That's what I want to know, okay? [00:27:22] I'm with you. [00:27:25] That's no hesitation. [00:27:26] It's a no-brainer. [00:27:27] I mean, I think that we should go with this one. [00:27:30] You know, we can do this tomorrow, we don't have to wait three years on this. [00:27:33] No, and we shouldn't either. [00:27:36] You know, we need to bring it to council and approve it, let's do that. [00:27:40] Is that a hesitation? [00:27:42] Do I have backing there? [00:27:44] I'd support that. [00:27:46] Just under the current system we have now, not waiting three years. [00:27:49] Yeah, right. [00:27:53] Yeah, I don't see why. [00:27:55] I can see you thinking inside, but say it outside. [00:27:58] Well, the whole thing with doing the one provider and doing the billing on the taxes is, you know, [00:28:04] they've got to get a better price. [00:28:06] You know, to me that's, you know, if you're getting a whole city, you know, [00:28:11] you've got to give them a better price. [00:28:13] Yeah, but as I said, I don't want to go to that, jump one to the next. [00:28:16] I want to deal with the billing first, and then we'll go to the next. [00:28:19] Well, that's billing. [00:28:20] We're losing close to a quarter of the, well, more like a fifth probably. [00:28:23] It's up there, somewhere between. [00:28:27] That's a lot of. [00:28:29] Well, that's from our side, but I mean. [00:28:31] I mean, it's for them, too. [00:28:34] If we were to do that, can we do that mid-year, and how are you going to prorate it? [00:28:39] How would that, you know, because, of course, we bill, private taxes are billed in arrears, right? [00:28:44] So we would, you know, is that a, I guess that's just a matter of accounting and getting that figured out. [00:28:51] We're not charged in arrears. [00:28:58] There's lots of moving parts, and we will have to negotiate a good number of things with all of the providers in order to get the system mobilized. [00:29:13] But I do think that it is in our best interest to move forward with the placing of the fees for service on the tax bills sooner rather than later, [00:29:33] in large part because it takes the bad debt away for the service providers, [00:29:40] in addition to the fact that it picks up the additional customers that aren't currently being serviced, [00:29:49] so that we can spread those among the service providers so that they get the extra numbers of customers, [00:29:59] and that means that we can move forward. [00:30:00] be what motivates them to go to the district system on the temporary basis [00:30:07] until we get further along and can go to the exclusive contract in three years. [00:30:17] Pete, you got anything? Yes, I do. Yeah. You ready? Go for it. [00:30:25] Okay, good. Okay, so first of all, I am in favor of having the city manage the [00:30:36] billing to make sure that all of the customers are paying as they need to. I [00:30:42] think there is some research still to be done with respect to the level of [00:30:53] cash that is coming from different places, and so there may be some issues [00:30:58] that come out of it, but in general, it's a great idea. As to the comment that was [00:31:06] made that currently with the yard to pre-pick up, it was my understanding we [00:31:12] were going to have a separate work session for that. Am I correct? [00:31:17] The billing first. We'll go to the other two separate. Okay, so for billing then, [00:31:22] let's say that I favor the water bill. I understand this idea that we don't want [00:31:29] to slip a dime off of this, but I'd rather not see the increase in our tax [00:31:35] bills, and I believe that the water bill would allow you to convert more quickly, [00:31:42] and you wouldn't have to wait six months to begin to get this. We [00:31:47] collect a good bit of our water bills, and we have to go through a boss test to [00:31:54] collect them if they're unpaid, and that's a whole other discussion whether [00:32:00] we continue to allow renters to pay the water bill or not, but keep in mind now [00:32:06] for those landlords who have their renters paying, they would continue to [00:32:11] have the renters pay. That's a whole other argument, Mr. Mayor, as to whether [00:32:16] or not we can and or should stop providing water service to renters and [00:32:23] making property owners pay for it. If we make property owners pay for it, we would [00:32:31] probably be saving a lot of lost revenue, and if we don't address that issue, we're [00:32:37] losing revenue in the water department. So we have a very reliable process in [00:32:43] our water bills. I would like to see the prospective numbers that you would [00:32:48] recommend that we're losing by putting it on the water bill versus building it [00:32:52] on the taxes. I understand the argument, but I tend to think that it needs to [00:32:58] have a little more discussion. We could certainly move straight through the [00:33:02] water bill more quickly, and if we did that, we could help to keep our billing [00:33:08] charges able to be spread a little differently, maybe saving some monthly [00:33:15] utility. You might have been cut off when Debbie talked about the water bill, so [00:33:19] Debbie, could you repeat that? It might have been in between when we called you [00:33:23] back. We did talk a little bit about potentially placing the cost on the [00:33:31] water bills, and I think what we did say was we can't turn off people's water [00:33:36] bills for not paying. I heard. Yes, I hear you, and that's why I commented as I did. [00:33:44] If you don't turn off the water, it doesn't mean that you're not still [00:33:49] accruing those water bills and that you don't eventually try to collect them. [00:33:55] Would that be correct? That is correct. Right, so I don't think we lose much money by [00:34:02] putting it on the tax bill, and what we do lose is the ability to collect it [00:34:07] regularly. If you look at the benefit of us having money in our pocket earlier, I [00:34:12] think it outweighs your arguments, but that's really an issue for the [00:34:18] finance department probably and not the public works department. Why don't we [00:34:23] take a look at that both ways, because Pete's point about we could do this [00:34:27] faster if it went on the water bills is valid. The downside being, how do [00:34:33] we keep from losing it? The only thing they say there is that people, [00:34:38] individual renters have the water bill, and I'm looking for the trash [00:34:42] pickups going to be there, whether they have a renter or don't have a renter, so [00:34:45] I'd like to go with the landlord or the property owner that that bill goes to, [00:34:50] just the same as, you know, we're doing that with the asphalt assessment [00:34:55] program, the paving assessment program, that's benefiting the landlord or the [00:34:58] person that lives in the house. So the same with the trash would be that [00:35:02] would be there to benefit the person that actually owns the property. Right, but my [00:35:07] point is we should look at that policy because we want to make sure we do the [00:35:11] best we can to collect our water and sewer bills. And so, you know, if it's [00:35:15] good enough for water and sewer, I think it's probably good enough for garbage [00:35:18] considering the extra revenue we're going to generate. So I think it's worth [00:35:22] looking at the numbers. I appreciate the logic. I don't disagree with it, but I [00:35:27] think we have some benefits to consider that and reconsider that [00:35:33] recommendation. You can't see, but Debbie's nodding her head. Good. Okay, so [00:35:40] the next thing, tell me when we move on to the next topic, Mr. Mayor. [00:35:45] Chopper, you want to kick off the second one? Just the one comment about putting on the [00:35:53] water bill and the trash bill. For me the difference is, you know, your [00:35:57] trash bill, that's gonna be one set cost period all year. The water bill varies, so [00:36:03] it's kind of hard to nail them both down on that, I think. But anyways, we can talk [00:36:07] about it. Mike? Yeah, I kind of think the same thing about, I agree with Chopper on the [00:36:13] property bill, and maybe we've got to relook at the water thing differently. [00:36:16] But the, you know, one thing we have to keep in mind, pushed back from some [00:36:21] residents obviously, is those folks who vacation three, six months out and they [00:36:28] suspend their service and so forth. I don't know if there's any provision we [00:36:32] could have in on that. I think that'd be pretty difficult, but maybe there would [00:36:36] be some way. The other, I'm thinking it's going to take some time anyway to [00:36:43] negotiate that and get the details worked out with the haulers. And the [00:36:46] question is, if haulers, if we're going to take over the billing and there's a [00:36:51] certain resident that happens to be three or six months in arrears and bad [00:36:56] debt on a residence, are we going to carry that forward or not? Or they're [00:37:00] going to have to, you know, that's some details you have to work out with the [00:37:03] hauler, but it would be... May I reply? Yeah, go ahead, Pete. So let's get back to [00:37:10] your agreement with putting it on the property tax and the reasoning for that. [00:37:16] Once again, we have a monthly billing charge that we put on our water and sewer [00:37:23] bills, and this goes back to Councilman Murphy. Every month that charge is [00:37:28] automatically post right to the bill. It is a simple thing to add it to the [00:37:34] water bill. It will certainly change the total on the bill, but there's no extra [00:37:40] work for anybody in having two different components. As to the property tax bill, [00:37:46] just let me also add that I was in that department, and I know that taxes [00:37:52] require us to submit an assessment role. So that assessment role would have to be [00:37:59] generated and re-handled every year at some cost to the city. So I would [00:38:07] still ask that you all would keep an open mind before taking your side on [00:38:11] this and let the staff do some analysis, because I think that it would be [00:38:18] proven that to the degree somebody doesn't pay their water bill and can't [00:38:24] shut it off, we pay the hauler for that collection as we would, but we would [00:38:32] still keep that bill rolling, and ultimately, utility bill is leanable. I [00:38:39] know that the water bill isn't, and so maybe the lawyer needs to get involved [00:38:43] and say, now we have to bifurcate the bill when we try to collect it. But I [00:38:48] think bottom line is I'd like to hear from the attorney and the finance [00:38:53] department and the city manager to look at those issues. Do we ever have to write off [00:39:00] any water bills? Oh, we do? We don't we don't lean the property? If the bill is in the [00:39:08] owner's name, we have the right to lean the property, because we have water and [00:39:13] sewer debt, and as long as you have debt issues. So for property owners, if the bill is in [00:39:21] their name, yes, we can eventually lean the property, but for our renters, which [00:39:25] we have a substantial amount of accounts that are in the renter's name, we aren't [00:39:29] able to lean them. We have to send it out to collections and use a debt collector. [00:39:33] And so if we would inherit actually billing the [00:39:42] trash collection and putting that on the water bill, we've had discussions [00:39:55] with the trash haulers and they do have a considerable amount of accounts [00:39:59] receivable that they haven't been able to collect. And so if we take that on, we [00:40:03] don't inherit their debt, but we would in essence be inheriting those [00:40:07] customers who unlikely will pay. And so we would have to eventually send them to [00:40:12] the debt collector to try to collect on our behalf. So it would generate a [00:40:17] lot of work on our part. Putting it on the tax bill would eliminate that. It [00:40:22] would eliminate us having that bad debt on our accounts. And we would be [00:40:29] able to also retain our franchise fee, which we still intend to collect from [00:40:34] our hauler, single hauler eventually. So we would be able to control that, retain [00:40:40] it on everything that was collected instead of just what our haulers collect. [00:40:44] So any of that bad debt that they currently have, we don't [00:40:49] receive a franchise fee at 10% on what they don't collect. It's only on what [00:40:53] they're able to collect. So putting it on the tax bill would eliminate that. We [00:40:58] would be able to control the collecting our own franchise fee, retaining that, and [00:41:03] paying our haulers what they invoice us. I want to bring up that number. You [00:41:07] said we have a substantial amount, but we have I think close to 46% rentals in the [00:41:12] city. So you could run up three months worth of a water bill [00:41:17] and walk out of the house, and y'all left three months worth of trash bills too. [00:41:21] And I think, Rod, correct me if I'm wrong, Rod had some discussion with the [00:41:26] Hernando County Administrator. And when they first started their single hauler [00:41:30] system, they did put it on the water utility bill. Once people found out that [00:41:35] they didn't have to pay it, their water wasn't going to be shut off, then exactly [00:41:40] the same thing that what Crystal's describing happened. And then they ended [00:41:44] up turning it around and doing it exactly like we're proposing. [00:41:50] Go ahead, Pete. All I'm asking is for a fair try to look at the issue. Keep in [00:42:03] mind, if you put it on the property bill now, you won't begin to be able to have [00:42:08] this process work until December. If you start receiving money now, it's sort of [00:42:17] like, I would like to see those calculations, because we shouldn't be [00:42:25] losing water. We need to tighten up our system, and we can tighten up the system. [00:42:31] So the idea that we're taking and accepting, that people can just decide [00:42:36] not to pay their water bill, means that the hauler division doesn't want to act [00:42:43] like the water and sewer division. And our water and sewer division needs to be [00:42:47] aggressive and make sure it collects its bills. And if that means we have to [00:42:50] change the way we're doing things, we should be changing it. We could change [00:42:53] the way we're doing things, solve that problem, and increase our water and sewer [00:42:57] collections. We have a collections department. To say that we don't want to [00:43:02] use our collections department disrupts me as not making sense. But whatever, I'm [00:43:11] ready to go on to the next topic. Okay, Trevor, go. I want to go to the debris [00:43:18] now. I've been paying attention to it a lot recently, because it's going to be [00:43:25] brought up tonight, and we're going to look at it even more. Do you have a [00:43:28] number, Robert, of what it costs us for the debris pickup, an annual fee? It's [00:43:34] around $200,000, somewhere around there. I didn't bring my, I just did the [00:43:39] calculations. $219,000. $219,000. You know, and that's coming out of our [00:43:47] general fund, is that correct? Yes. You know, so if we divide that among, you know, [00:43:52] how many, 7,000 households? Somebody do a quick figure in on that. Or what do you [00:44:01] say? Residents or households? Households, that's what you said. What's the 9,000? 9,000 [00:44:07] because we're missing $1,900, or whatever the number was, whatever number you gave [00:44:11] me for the trash haulers. So what is that, when you divide that into? $200 a [00:44:16] household. I don't know, somebody's doing the math. I mean, I'm trying to figure out, I [00:44:20] didn't know if we were... How many households are you saying, 7,000? We'll round it out to 10,000, but round figures. Okay, so there's over 200, let's say [00:44:28] over $200, you know, the residents are paying already for, you know, debris. I [00:44:34] think you're off a digit. I'm coming up with 23 bucks. [00:44:41] Not a year. But still, that's almost a quarter of what the trash pickup is. [00:44:47] Well, it's two months pickup, you know. Let's say, so two months [00:44:53] pickup, that they're paying an extra two months for whoever brings in [00:44:56] the yard debris into town. [00:45:00] You know, and it's been frustrating us for a while. [00:45:02] It's been frustrating people that were on the council [00:45:04] before this group was there, or this group was here. [00:45:08] And so I think we really need to address [00:45:10] whether we want to provide that service anymore. [00:45:13] And you go to get around to an area about once every eight [00:45:17] weeks, is that correct? [00:45:18] Correct. [00:45:19] So in eight weeks, putting one trash can out, [00:45:23] I could clean up my whole alleyway once or twice a week. [00:45:27] And so I think that if we have a service that's available, [00:45:31] that they can, hey, we get a big major cleanup [00:45:33] in this piece of property, and we call Robert [00:45:36] and he brings a truck over and hauls it all off for a small [00:45:40] fee, that we probably would eliminate [00:45:43] this whole mess of trying to hunt down [00:45:46] landscapers dumping in the town. [00:45:48] And we would clean up our yards in no time at all. [00:45:51] I agree. [00:45:51] I think it has been getting worse. [00:45:54] And this is something we looked at eight or nine years ago. [00:45:58] And the problem hasn't gotten any better. [00:46:03] If anything, it's gotten a lot worse. [00:46:04] Especially if I could put one trash can out every two days, [00:46:08] I could clean my, and this isn't my stuff, [00:46:10] this is just up and down my alleyway, which is, [00:46:12] I think there's four or five piles in one block. [00:46:16] So we could really, and like I said, [00:46:18] as long as we offer this service, [00:46:20] that you have the vehicles, and you have the whereabouts, [00:46:23] go over and pick up somebody's stuff [00:46:24] if they call and ask for a special pickup. [00:46:28] That's my thought on the debris. [00:46:29] I think I would want us to talk about having some way [00:46:35] that if somebody wants to drop it at the Pine Hill site. [00:46:43] You can access that to pick up, right? [00:46:46] Robert, so you can access to drop off, right? [00:46:48] The compost area is isolated. [00:46:51] So yes, a person can go to there, [00:46:54] and they can pick up the compost, [00:46:56] and it's separated from where all the yard debris [00:47:00] is stored at. [00:47:01] Can we make it so that if somebody has a big project, [00:47:06] they can have their landscaper, whoever, [00:47:09] take it and drop it there? [00:47:11] So we're not hauling it? [00:47:12] We're looking into different options, [00:47:14] because I know we're going to schedule a future meeting, [00:47:17] work session for that. [00:47:19] And so we're gathering a lot of the information [00:47:22] to see if we can present to you different options that [00:47:24] may be available. [00:47:26] I think those are the exceptions. [00:47:28] But the routine stuff, I mean, if our residents are already [00:47:32] paying for it in their trash fees, that can't happen. [00:47:36] I mean, there is a lot of environmental concern, [00:47:39] and I understand that. [00:47:41] So if there's a place where they can take it, [00:47:44] or we can come get their stuff and haul it off for them, [00:47:47] within reason. [00:47:48] Because we definitely have night raiders, [00:47:52] call them whatever you want to call them. [00:47:54] I'm not picking on landscapers, but we [00:47:56] have night raiders that drop stuff off in the city. [00:47:59] Well, one of the things that we are looking into [00:48:01] that is directly related to the single hauler, [00:48:04] and we haven't really gotten into it, [00:48:06] but the city of Port Orange does have a single hauler, [00:48:11] and they include the yard pickup and some of the different items [00:48:17] that you're talking about. [00:48:19] But we haven't really dove in deep yet. [00:48:21] Well, even in Hernando County, there's [00:48:25] a gated community there that has a separate day for yard debris, [00:48:28] and it goes in a certain bag, paper bag type of thing [00:48:35] that they have. [00:48:36] And then they put it on the corner, [00:48:38] and that's done once a week. [00:48:40] Just like my hauler happens to pick up recyclables once a week [00:48:45] so we could have yard debris pick up once a week. [00:48:47] So there's a lot of opportunities there, [00:48:49] but I think we need to move on from the night raiders [00:48:53] and help our neighbors. [00:48:56] What do you guys think? [00:48:57] Absolutely. [00:48:58] I mean, ever since I've been talking [00:49:00] about sitting on the council, we've [00:49:01] got to do something different. [00:49:02] And I, for one, I don't have a lot of frontage. [00:49:07] I don't have a nice area to pile debris [00:49:10] if I want to get my car in and out of the driveway, for example. [00:49:13] So I, for one, I'll put it in an extra bag. [00:49:16] That weekend, I clean up the yard, I put it in the bag. [00:49:20] I've got a neighbor a couple doors down. [00:49:22] There's, that week, a couple of palm fronds. [00:49:24] Next week, another palm fronds, and banana leaves. [00:49:27] And then the next week is some more. [00:49:28] Those could easily go in his trash, but it piles up. [00:49:31] And after about three or four weeks, it's there. [00:49:33] And then it's still there for another three or four weeks [00:49:36] going on. [00:49:36] There's a lot of people that do that. [00:49:38] And I appreciate the opportunity to have it [00:49:40] and mulched and, like I say, environmental. [00:49:43] But I think if the city hauls what the maintenance stuff we [00:49:49] do, and plus what residents might drop off there, [00:49:53] I'm sure that would still create a lot of mulch, [00:49:56] enough mulch for people who want to come pick up the mulch [00:49:59] and still be available. [00:50:00] So yeah, I'd like to see it worked in on a more [00:50:05] frequent basis. [00:50:06] It'll just make things look better. [00:50:10] That community is Wellington, in case [00:50:12] you want to check and see what they're doing. [00:50:14] Because they have Republic, I think, [00:50:15] up there in Hernando County. [00:50:17] Wellington has that. [00:50:18] Matt, what do you think? [00:50:19] Let me know, map to map. [00:50:22] No, I just want to say that, yeah, I mean, [00:50:24] we have to do something different, [00:50:26] try something different. [00:50:28] What we've been doing hasn't been working. [00:50:29] So I guess we'll look at some of those options [00:50:32] and see what we can do. [00:50:34] Pete? [00:50:35] Yeah, I'm in with the idea that we can discuss that [00:50:41] at our next work session when we can look at all the ways [00:50:44] that we can improve, perhaps improve the product [00:50:47] with the mulch, whatever. [00:50:49] But as to the comments that were made, [00:50:52] I would just caution and ask that we be careful [00:50:55] about saying that residents are paying for a service [00:50:58] they're not using. [00:50:59] You know, we have library service, [00:51:02] and we have a lot of residents that don't use that. [00:51:05] We have recreation service, and we have a lot of residents [00:51:07] that don't use that. [00:51:09] We have adult senior citizens who [00:51:11] used to come in all the time bitching about their school [00:51:14] taxes because they don't have kids. [00:51:17] So I think what we can say is, as had been shown by Mike [00:51:22] Peters from what he said, they do get the service. [00:51:25] They just put it in the bag, and it is picked up. [00:51:28] So I think that the problem is that we [00:51:31] have these larger lots. [00:51:32] There are not as many of them. [00:51:35] And I appreciate the idea that we'll [00:51:36] try to accommodate them. [00:51:38] I've been saying for a long time, [00:51:39] I'd stick it in the pickup truck and drop it out myself. [00:51:43] If I really wanted to mulch it and not put it in a bag, [00:51:45] and we didn't have the paper bags, [00:51:48] I would take it down and figure out a way. [00:51:50] So I would encourage us to do our best to show that we're [00:51:54] trying to recycle this organic, carbon-based material [00:51:57] before we burn it and send off the wrong results [00:52:03] of the atmosphere. [00:52:04] But I certainly agree with the concept that you're pushing. [00:52:08] And I think it's fine. [00:52:10] And I'm all in and look forward to that next work session. [00:52:16] Thank you. [00:52:16] Jeffrey, we had a third item we were going to talk about? [00:52:18] Yeah, just one other comment. [00:52:20] When you're looking into this, Robert, we [00:52:22] have one drop spot in Pine Hill. [00:52:26] Is there looking to see if there might [00:52:28] be a couple other spots in the city where we could have [00:52:31] a place that you could drop it? [00:52:32] It might be more neighborly to all, maybe [00:52:35] three places in the city where you could drop it off. [00:52:42] May I respond? [00:52:43] Go ahead. [00:52:44] Yeah, the only thing, again, Jock, [00:52:46] is you might be looking at the radars going [00:52:48] to one of those three spots. [00:52:49] So one would have to be careful. [00:52:52] I mean, I agree we've got to stop at the alley. [00:52:55] The alley behind Montana, I think, [00:52:58] had all of a sudden four little piles along the way. [00:53:02] So somebody's been dropping them off in parts [00:53:05] just this last week. [00:53:06] So I think if we do have a place to take, [00:53:09] we might want to gate it and drive to it [00:53:12] and drop it off, or have some kind of secure spot, or ours. [00:53:17] Maybe you're talking like the rec center [00:53:19] drop in the back area. [00:53:21] But we would need to manage that somehow [00:53:25] to make sure we keep people from dropping stuff off [00:53:27] in the middle of the night. [00:53:28] Good idea. [00:53:30] Order some cameras, would you? [00:53:32] Yeah. [00:53:34] Matt, any final thoughts on that? [00:53:36] Mike? [00:53:38] Final thoughts, Pete? [00:53:40] No, I appreciate you letting me voice my way in. [00:53:44] And we'll see you at the next meeting. [00:53:47] Chopper? [00:53:47] We're going to hang on him, right? [00:53:50] OK. [00:53:51] All right, well, OK. [00:53:52] We're on number three now. [00:53:53] Yeah, but we're working our way through. [00:53:55] OK, Chopper? [00:53:57] I don't want to go first on this one. [00:53:59] What is it? [00:54:00] The one hauler. [00:54:05] I'll kick that one off. [00:54:06] I thought it would be nice if we just let each one of them [00:54:11] do a section. [00:54:15] The advantage of that is if one fourth or one fifth of the city [00:54:22] suddenly developed a problem because XYZ hauler wasn't [00:54:26] doing their job, we could flip it over pretty quick to [00:54:29] somebody else that was already in the area. [00:54:34] I'm just a little surprised that they don't like that idea [00:54:39] because they're spending a bunch of money doing this [00:54:44] stuff redundantly now. [00:54:48] Conceivably, they'd have the same number of people that [00:54:51] they'd be servicing even if they were only doing a zone. [00:54:57] I'll be happy to go second. [00:54:59] OK, go, Pete. [00:55:01] OK, yeah, I think that my understanding is, and I don't [00:55:05] know, do we have Mr. Driscoll there tonight? [00:55:09] Yeah, my understanding is that you have to wait three years [00:55:14] in order if there is not agreement. [00:55:18] But I think that if we have a three year window and we say [00:55:21] we're going to do this, Mr. Mayor, you may be right. [00:55:25] We might find that there is some satisfaction that they [00:55:29] have in the system that we set up temporarily if they agree [00:55:32] to it, and then maybe we don't have to do it. [00:55:36] So the fact that we give notice that we intend to do [00:55:39] it doesn't mean that three years from now, whoever's on [00:55:42] the council would even do it then. [00:55:45] So I think it's something that would be [00:55:46] addressed down the road. [00:55:48] The first thing is to get the system in place. [00:55:50] And in that regard, I think the one advantage of the one [00:55:54] poll that Robert was promoting is that we have [00:55:58] uniform collection. [00:56:00] And I wanted to slip in on that topic that I know on [00:56:07] Overby Fies Road, the haulers there have the new fangled [00:56:12] trash cans that they have to put them out at the street [00:56:15] facing the right direction. [00:56:17] The truck comes in, it's got two little forklift arms, and [00:56:21] it dumps the garbage automatically. [00:56:24] They still have some labor. [00:56:26] But I would hope that we would explore the [00:56:29] best way to do that. [00:56:32] And if we have specialized equipment, that [00:56:37] becomes another issue. [00:56:38] But maybe that's just another item I haven't heard about. [00:56:44] But what's the method for taking the garbage? [00:56:47] And apparently it must be worthwhile, because some of [00:56:51] the haulers are actually providing those containers in [00:56:56] order to make their work more efficient. [00:56:58] I think my daughter's got that up in Regency Park now, too. [00:57:04] Matt, thoughts? [00:57:07] I think with the single payer system, it sounds good, but it [00:57:10] just doesn't work for residents if they're not [00:57:13] getting a better deal out of it. [00:57:15] So I think that's got to be, no matter what, that's got to [00:57:17] be in there. [00:57:20] I mean, I get the roads and everything else, but I don't [00:57:22] know if the residents are looking at what's [00:57:25] going to cost me. [00:57:26] I think that's their big thing. [00:57:27] So we have to make sure that's the case. [00:57:29] And then is this going to be on a yearly contract? [00:57:33] Typically, the term of a contract for municipal solid [00:57:37] waste is at least a five-year term to make it. [00:57:41] Well, are you talking about the hauler, or are you talking [00:57:44] about the resident? [00:57:46] The hauler. [00:57:47] The hauler. [00:57:48] Yeah. [00:57:49] Because obviously, if they don't like them, we get a lot [00:57:53] of complaints, is that something we have to fire [00:57:58] them and then get somebody else in? [00:57:59] Or how's that going to work? [00:58:03] Well, they would have a responsibility to interact with [00:58:09] customers, and if they failed to remedy problems [00:58:13] appropriately, then they wouldn't have their [00:58:15] contract renewed. [00:58:17] After five years. [00:58:19] Well, we would take action before then. [00:58:22] Wouldn't they default on their brief? [00:58:25] All right. [00:58:26] So they default on it, and we can move on to the next one. [00:58:28] Can we get Tim to speak to that? [00:58:29] Hang on. [00:58:29] Can we get Tim to speak to that? [00:58:31] Performance standards and any agreement. [00:58:33] And if they breach those performance standards, there [00:58:35] would be some methodology by giving notice. [00:58:38] And if they don't correct certain deficiencies within a [00:58:41] timely manner, there might be percentages of complaints, [00:58:44] those kinds of things. [00:58:45] So those will all be built into it. [00:58:47] And there would be a way to get rid of a bad hauler prior [00:58:51] to the expiration of the term. [00:58:53] But it would be a difficult process, and it would be one [00:58:55] that we'd have to make sure that it's fair and that we [00:58:58] have followed all the parameters of the contract. [00:59:00] But we would build that into a contract. [00:59:02] OK. [00:59:02] All right. [00:59:04] That makes more sense. [00:59:05] But yeah, so for me, it's definitely about the cost. [00:59:09] I think that's the number one, and then [00:59:11] obviously service, too. [00:59:13] Mike? [00:59:15] So yeah, I don't see any downside other than the fact [00:59:19] that I'm like everybody else. [00:59:21] I like to have choices. [00:59:23] I like to choose blue or red, whenever I feel like it. [00:59:26] But I think, and I certainly don't want to put anybody out [00:59:30] of business, but the advantages, in my view, just [00:59:38] completely overwhelms the disadvantages. [00:59:40] I mean, we talk about the noise. [00:59:45] So fortunately enough, my hauler's not the first one on [00:59:47] my street, so when I forget the trash, I hear the trash [00:59:50] cans of two other haulers, and I know I've still got time [00:59:53] to get mine out. [00:59:57] But I assume not. [01:00:00] have those all running up and down the streets all day. [01:00:04] And I know about the damage. [01:00:06] And it's just, and it's consistent, right? [01:00:09] So on my street, not all haul on the same day. [01:00:12] So when I first moved in, I got confused. [01:00:15] I went, oh, I got to put my trash out. [01:00:17] Well, no, it's not my day, but his trash can's out. [01:00:19] And so we always, every day, we have trash cans [01:00:21] sitting on the side of the road. [01:00:22] That's weird because, isn't it Monday and Thursday [01:00:25] throughout the whole city? [01:00:28] Monday and Thursday. [01:00:29] Monday and Thursday. [01:00:29] It can't be Monday and Thursday if you've got somebody driving in. [01:00:32] I mean, I've got something else going on then, so I don't know. [01:00:34] Maybe they're just keeping their trash cans out early, so. [01:00:37] You're dreaming. [01:00:38] It's 2 in the morning. [01:00:39] No, I mean, we had a problem. [01:00:41] We had a problem a while back, and we [01:00:45] had to address it, and it was coming up on Wednesday. [01:00:47] Wednesday, so for a while, we addressed that. [01:00:50] You're up, Chopper, on this one. [01:00:51] No, he can go. [01:00:52] I thought Pete did it. [01:00:54] Pete, did you have anything? [01:00:56] I'm done. [01:00:56] I'm good with the fact that it's three years out. [01:00:59] I think there's lots of flexibility [01:01:00] to examine it before the final decision's made. [01:01:03] So let's get the deal going that we want now. [01:01:08] And if that means let's post up for three years, [01:01:10] let's post it up for three years. [01:01:12] But I don't think there's a whole lot to debate [01:01:17] about that at this point. [01:01:19] Chopper? [01:01:21] I'm not for a single hauler. [01:01:22] I'll say it straightforward. [01:01:24] I am not for five haulers either. [01:01:27] But I do believe in competition breeds better quality product. [01:01:32] And I think that when you talk about price right now, [01:01:34] we have two people competing in town when [01:01:36] it comes to cable service. [01:01:38] We have Spectrum and Frontier. [01:01:40] And they play the game back and forth, [01:01:41] and I play the game with them. [01:01:44] Next year, it's going to go back, or a year and a half, [01:01:47] it's going to go back to Frontier. [01:01:48] It's at Spectrum right now. [01:01:49] But I play this game with them, and it all has to do with money. [01:01:53] And the services, maybe you can tell me [01:01:58] the difference in the service, but I'm not [01:02:01] real familiar with the difference in service. [01:02:03] There is a little bit in channels. [01:02:04] There's a bit difference in music. [01:02:06] So there is some differences. [01:02:07] And I think that two trucks going down the street [01:02:10] is different than five trucks, I understand. [01:02:12] I have no problem. [01:02:13] But I think business breeds business, and better business. [01:02:16] And I'm for two truck, two haulers, [01:02:19] and let them fight over the 9,000, [01:02:22] or whatever entities in town. [01:02:25] And that's where I'm at, versus a single hauler. [01:02:31] Any other items on this discussion? [01:02:34] Pete, you got anything else? [01:02:36] Well, just to follow up, I mean, it's [01:02:38] problematic to have to divide and assign, [01:02:43] or I don't know what the idea is. [01:02:46] But if we can get all the haulers [01:02:49] to agree to increase their income [01:02:52] and lower their amount of time on the road, [01:02:55] I think we should let the staff negotiate this deal [01:02:58] that they've suggested to us. [01:02:59] And again, I think it's a valid concern when [01:03:02] you go to three haulers, two haulers, one hauler. [01:03:07] But if we have to start the clock, [01:03:09] I agree we should start the clock [01:03:11] and let everybody know that's at the end of the road, [01:03:16] that we've got our legal right to do that if we [01:03:18] decide to at that point. [01:03:20] I agree. [01:03:21] I agree totally. [01:03:21] Let's keep it rolling here. [01:03:23] But I also, just one other comment. [01:03:25] I talked to a county commissioner, [01:03:27] whatever they are up in Hernando County, [01:03:29] and he says it's his number one complaint from his residents. [01:03:36] And I can't say the other word. [01:03:38] But it is trash hauling. [01:03:42] So all the problems they have in Hernando County, [01:03:45] I know you haven't any problems in your neighborhood, Robert, [01:03:48] but this is an Arapaica. [01:03:49] And so it's a little different community out there. [01:03:53] Matt? [01:03:54] So yeah, let's go ahead and move forward with it. [01:03:56] And then we can tweak it as we go. [01:03:57] And if we decide we don't want to, we don't have to. [01:04:00] OK, Mike? [01:04:02] I agree. [01:04:03] I'd ask you, if we're going to look [01:04:05] at the water bill deal versus property tax, [01:04:10] also maybe find out what the timetable of either one [01:04:13] that we could have it implemented, right? [01:04:16] And in knowing the restrictions or leeway we have on that. [01:04:25] Yeah, the one thing with the water bill that [01:04:29] would make sense to me would be that we could ramp it up [01:04:34] a lot sooner. [01:04:36] But if we did that, I think we've definitely [01:04:39] got to deal with the issue that Crystal brought up, which [01:04:44] would be to put the onus on the property owner [01:04:47] and not on the renter. [01:04:48] Because we've just had too much trouble [01:04:50] with the renters bailing. [01:04:54] We'll analyze it from both perspectives [01:04:58] and bring back the facts to you for further deliberation. [01:05:01] Works for me. [01:05:04] Anything else, Pete? [01:05:06] No, thank you very much. [01:05:07] I appreciate it. [01:05:08] Thank you. [01:05:11] OK. [01:05:11] We have one further for you this evening, Mr. Mayor. [01:05:14] Any communications, Pete? [01:05:17] No. [01:05:19] Matt? [01:05:20] No, I'm good. [01:05:21] Mike? [01:05:22] No, sir. [01:05:23] Chopper? [01:05:25] Yeah, I'm good. [01:05:28] We did get a new Habitat house on High Street today, [01:05:33] which was pretty cool. [01:05:36] A shout out to the Rivera family, who now has a home. [01:05:41] I think they're going to be thrilled to death when the, [01:05:43] not that Rivera, but. [01:05:47] Are you divorced now? [01:05:49] I think they'll be even more thrilled when [01:05:51] we get the new fire station built, [01:05:54] so they don't have fire trucks driving past them. [01:05:56] But it looked like a real nice little house there, [01:05:59] so pretty cool. [01:06:02] Anything from the city attorney tonight? [01:06:04] Nothing from me, Mr. Mayor. [01:06:05] Ms. Mance? [01:06:05] No, just happy birthday to you, Mr. Mayor. [01:06:07] Happy birthday. [01:06:08] In which case, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. [01:06:11] So moved. [01:06:12] We called.

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3. 3Communications
4. 4Adjournment