On the agenda

1. 1Call to Order - Roll Call▶ 0:00
2. 2

   Discussion of Pedestrian/Bicycle Overpass at US19 and Marine Parkway

   discussed

   Council discussed a proposed pedestrian/bicycle overpass at US 19 and Marine Parkway to close a gap in the Pinellas Trail. Staff presented options including a spiral ramp design and sought council direction on golf cart accommodation, the county's bus transfer station co-location, and pursuing design funding. Council reached consensus to exclude golf carts (due to doubled cost), explore a straight-down Marine Parkway alignment, and continue exploring grant funding and county coordination.

   • consensus:Council consensus to exclude golf cart accommodation from the proposed overpass design due to doubled construction cost not eligible for grant funding. (none)
   • direction:Direction to staff to investigate a straight alignment down the south side of Marine Parkway as an alternative to the spiral ramp design. (none)
   • direction:Direction to explore the county's intentions regarding the bus transfer station and potential co-location to leverage federal funding and move up the MPO priority list. (none)

   📍5500 Riva Del Place, Newport Richey📍7712 West County Line Road, Odessa, Florida📍Grand Boulevard📍Gulf Trace Boulevard📍Gulfview Square Mall📍Northwest corner of Moog and 19📍Oramar Terrace📍US 19 and Marine Parkway📍West end of Trouble Creek Road🏢FDOT🏢Five Minute Lube🏢Kimley Horn and Associates🏢MPO🏢Pasco County BPAC (Bicycle and Pedestrian Advisory Committee)🏢Starbucks👤Charles Rudd👤Chopper👤Commissioner Oakley👤Councilman Starkey👤Debbie Manz👤Gunter Flagg👤Peter Altman👤Shelly Sorenson#$100,000 planning appropriation FY 2021#2016 Kimley Horn study ($3M estimate)#CEI (Construction, Engineering and Inspection)#Coast-to-Coast Trail#Coastal Anchor Trail#Key Vista Park#MPO priority list (#9)#PD&E (Preliminary Design and Engineering)#Pasco County bus transfer station project#Pinellas Trail#Strauber Memorial Parkway

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   [00:00:15] First item on the agenda is discussion [00:00:17] of a pedestrian bicycle overpass at US 19th and Marine. [00:00:21] Ms. Manz? [00:00:23] Yes, sir, Mr. Mayor, members of the council. [00:00:25] As you are aware, discussions have [00:00:28] occurred over the course of the last four years [00:00:31] about potentially establishing an overhead bridge [00:00:37] at Marine Parkway at US Highway 19. [00:00:43] The purpose of the bridge would be [00:00:46] to accommodate pedestrian and bicycle traffic. [00:00:49] There's been some talk that it might also [00:00:53] accommodate golf cart traffic. [00:00:56] In that respect, Kimley Horn and Associates [00:01:00] conducted a study back in 2016 at which time [00:01:05] they proposed a prefabricated steel truss bridge. [00:01:10] And the probable cost of construction at that time [00:01:13] was $3 million. [00:01:16] That estimate did include construction and right [00:01:21] of way acquisition and some utility relocation, [00:01:26] as well as the establishment of a walkway. [00:01:31] Since that time, some of the variables [00:01:33] have changed to include the fact that one of the properties [00:01:40] was purchased that was intended to be used for some right [00:01:47] of way acquisition. [00:01:48] And a new business was established there. [00:01:51] And that is currently a five minute lube business. [00:01:58] We are now at a point that we're proposing [00:02:01] something a little bit different than what [00:02:03] was proposed back then. [00:02:06] And there is a grant opportunity that Mr. Rudd is looking at. [00:02:12] And we need to make some very specific decisions about how [00:02:17] we want to go forward with our grant application [00:02:21] if the project is still of interest to you, [00:02:24] which I suspect it is. [00:02:26] And in that regard, he's prepared a PowerPoint [00:02:30] presentation to discuss more of the specifics of the project [00:02:36] and to elicit some input from you [00:02:39] on some of those design related decisions that we need to make. [00:02:43] Mr. Rudd? [00:02:44] Thank you. [00:02:46] Good evening, mayor and council. [00:02:48] To give you a little context for this project, [00:02:51] I kind of zoomed out. [00:02:53] And if you look at the image at the bottom, [00:02:55] the yellow line represents the Pinellas Trail, which currently [00:02:58] ends at US 19, just south of the Pasco Pinellas County line. [00:03:04] There's approximately a four mile gap [00:03:06] where our trail begins along the highway. [00:03:10] It's an asphalt trail next to the highway [00:03:13] that begins at Gulf Trace Boulevard [00:03:17] and goes all the way up to Oramar Terrace and ends there. [00:03:22] Then there's a one block where there's [00:03:25] a access road to the intersection of Marine Parkway [00:03:30] and US 19. [00:03:31] And then we have an existing trail [00:03:33] on Marine Parkway, which is represented there at the top. [00:03:36] And then it's difficult to see, but the dotted line going off [00:03:39] the screen is the Grand Boulevard trail segment that [00:03:41] is currently in the design phase. [00:03:45] This is the representation. [00:03:47] It's difficult to see. [00:03:48] The 2016 bridge that was proposed, [00:03:52] the $3 million bridge, which would [00:03:54] be in front of coming across from the plaza [00:03:57] over to the corner, which at that time was a used car lot [00:04:00] and is currently a five minute lube. [00:04:03] And this is another design, very similar. [00:04:08] And in both these cases, the trail you would have coming up [00:04:11] from the south, you would have to cross Marine Boulevard, [00:04:14] go up to the bridge, cross over the bridge, [00:04:16] come back to Marine Boulevard, and at some point [00:04:18] cross Marine Boulevard again to get back to our trail segment. [00:04:23] So possibly a better design might be to, [00:04:27] this illustrates the segment, the gap, [00:04:31] where a bridge could cross over on the southern side [00:04:34] of the intersection, utilizing both DOT right-of-way [00:04:38] and the frontage road area for the ramp on the west side, [00:04:45] and then a spiral ramp on the east side. [00:04:48] And I'll zoom in a little bit how [00:04:49] that potential configuration would spiral down and connect [00:04:54] directly to our Marine Parkway trail. [00:04:57] You wouldn't have to cross Marine Parkway [00:04:59] at all to continue on over to Grand Boulevard, [00:05:03] or if you're going south, to get across the highway [00:05:05] and head south. [00:05:09] So the project implementation has a number of phases. [00:05:12] When we're looking at seeking funding, [00:05:14] there's obviously planning, and then what they call PD&E, [00:05:18] the preliminary engineering and final design, [00:05:21] right-of-way acquisition, which is not [00:05:22] eligible for this particular funding source, construction, [00:05:26] and then CEI, which is construction, engineering, [00:05:29] and inspection. [00:05:30] So part of our information we need [00:05:34] is what part of this process do we intend to fund ourselves, [00:05:37] and which part are we going to seek funding? [00:05:40] As far as right-of-way acquisition, [00:05:42] we need to know up front how much right-of-way is needed, [00:05:46] what the funding source will be, who's going to acquire it [00:05:49] and retain ownership, and how it will [00:05:51] be required in the schedule of that acquisition. [00:05:56] So what we want to discuss with you tonight, [00:05:59] currently the project is number nine on the MPO's priority [00:06:02] list. [00:06:04] And so first of all, as Ms. Banz mentioned, [00:06:07] we want to know if you're still committed to moving forward [00:06:09] this project. [00:06:10] Do we want to include golf carts using the overpass? [00:06:13] Because that will impact both DOT participation [00:06:16] and the cost of the project. [00:06:18] Do we want to include the county's bus transfer station [00:06:20] project in order to move ourselves up [00:06:23] on the priority list? [00:06:24] Because that project is a higher priority than our project. [00:06:28] Do we want to move the project up by providing more funding? [00:06:31] That's another way to move ourselves up the list. [00:06:34] Or do we want to wait for their process to play out? [00:06:38] And then do we want a contract for a design, which [00:06:41] would provide us with many of these answers? [00:06:43] For instance, what's the total cost of the project, [00:06:46] the total budget, how much right-of-way we need [00:06:49] and where the right-of-way is that we need? [00:06:51] And then what's the acquisition and the project timeline? [00:06:53] It'll really answer all those questions. [00:06:55] If we are interested in the project [00:06:57] and commit to designing it, it's an important step [00:07:02] we can move forward. [00:07:02] And we can apply for the funding for that phase [00:07:05] to help us to get that design. [00:07:10] And I'll be happy to answer any questions you have. [00:07:15] You go back to the circle drawing [00:07:18] or what do you call it, that guy right there. [00:07:21] Dunedin has a couple of overpasses down on alternate 19 [00:07:26] and they just run it straight along with the side of the road [00:07:30] why couldn't we run it straight down the side [00:07:32] matching Marine Parkway in our own trail? [00:07:36] To run it down Marine Parkway? [00:07:38] Well, yeah, I mean, to going to the east. [00:07:42] Isn't our trail on the south side? [00:07:45] Yeah, it's on the same side as... [00:07:47] Correct, so what I'm asking is why are you going across [00:07:50] and doing this circular thing to get down? [00:07:52] Why don't you just head right down our path [00:07:54] on the south side of Marine Parkway? [00:07:57] That's a possibility, we could do that. [00:07:59] We would figure that out in design. [00:08:04] The length of it will be determined in design [00:08:07] and the uses if we're going to have just bicycles [00:08:09] and pedestrians and or golf carts. [00:08:12] And then how far it would have to travel [00:08:14] into that neighborhood to... [00:08:16] Well, I mean, it's... [00:08:18] How many parcels it would take out [00:08:19] essentially moving that direction. [00:08:21] So it's just six of one, half of those the other. [00:08:22] You want to spiral here on the highway [00:08:26] or move into the neighborhood on... [00:08:29] Well, that's some investigating you can do [00:08:32] because I mean, I don't think it's... [00:08:35] I'm not even gonna try to guess 100 feet, [00:08:37] maybe down on either side of the curlew. [00:08:43] I don't know. [00:08:44] And I don't know that the link that ramp would need to be. [00:08:46] I don't know the... [00:08:48] Not qualified to... [00:08:49] I think it's a valid question [00:08:50] because one wouldn't necessarily have to acquire [00:08:54] the property so to reduce the cost [00:08:57] and probably reduce the cost of the down ramp itself. [00:09:02] You can tell, I can't really see [00:09:04] where the first cross street is, but... [00:09:06] It looks like cactus. [00:09:08] And we would be looking at a designer [00:09:12] to help us make that decision based on the amount of slope [00:09:18] that would be required to meet the ADA requirements [00:09:22] associated with the ramp. [00:09:25] Let's just say there's already existing things out there [00:09:27] to look at and get some ideas. [00:09:28] That's why I asked. [00:09:29] Yeah, it's definitely a possibility. [00:09:32] They do have a leveling off about four times down [00:09:36] to slow you down if you want. [00:09:41] Yeah, that would be my thought too, if we could do it. [00:09:44] It looks like it would take out a couple of businesses [00:09:48] if we go down Marine Parkway. [00:09:52] Oh, the other item that you had... [00:09:55] Well, if you circulate, you're gonna take businesses out. [00:09:57] You're gonna take a bunch out, yeah. [00:10:00] The other question that you raised, [00:10:03] which was actually the second one, [00:10:08] while it might be nice to have the golf carts going over [00:10:14] to the extent that adds a major expense [00:10:18] to the construction of the thing, [00:10:21] I'd be more inclined to tell FDOT, [00:10:23] look, the golf carts are going across there now. [00:10:25] They're gonna continue to go across there now, [00:10:28] and we're not going to tell them that they can't. [00:10:32] And if you wanna have your guys out there [00:10:35] to tell them they can't, well, good luck for you. [00:10:38] What we'd rather do is see FDOT do something [00:10:42] to make that intersection a little bit safer [00:10:45] so that the golf carts can safely transit it [00:10:47] without taking their lives into their hands [00:10:50] every time they go across. [00:10:51] But they're going across now. [00:10:53] Well, it's just not there. [00:10:54] They're going across multiple places on 19th. [00:10:58] And really, we're gonna build a ramp [00:11:01] for golf carts basically for people [00:11:03] that don't live in the city. [00:11:04] That's kind of ridiculous, [00:11:05] because all the golf harbors isn't in the city, [00:11:07] and they've already gone ahead and approved [00:11:09] in their HOA to allow them golf carts there. [00:11:11] So we're building it for, [00:11:13] we're building it for golf harbors. [00:11:15] We're not building it for the city. [00:11:16] Because like I said, the people that live on the west side [00:11:19] are crossing golf, they're crossing Main Street, [00:11:22] they're crossing Avery, you know, multiple places. [00:11:26] I think we get FDOT to deal with getting them [00:11:30] across safely where there are traffic lights, [00:11:33] including Marine Parkway, and just call it a day. [00:11:36] We're not gonna get our local police or the sheriff [00:11:39] to say they're not ticketing, but they're not ticketing. [00:11:44] Unless the golf carts are allowed on the Pinellas Trail. [00:11:49] No, they're not. [00:11:51] And that's one of the issues. [00:11:53] FDOT, when we were talking about the one going [00:11:57] under the US-19 bridge, there were concerns there too, [00:12:05] because typically the FDOT funding doesn't provide [00:12:10] for golf cart transits, and that one, [00:12:14] it made some sense to have them go under there as well. [00:12:19] The MPO has, I think, taken a position on that, [00:12:23] but I wouldn't swear to it. [00:12:24] Well, I mean, I think we're beating a horse. [00:12:27] Right now we're not even, none of us up here, [00:12:29] it sounds like, are in favor of the golf carts [00:12:31] across Marine Parkway. [00:12:33] So, what other questions? [00:12:37] You want us to? [00:12:38] What was the price difference, [00:12:39] or you have no idea of what it would be? [00:12:44] No, I don't. [00:12:45] Well, how much is the next step? [00:12:45] The estimate is that we have been working from [00:12:51] is that it would, in all likelihood, [00:12:54] double the cost of construction, [00:12:57] and that grant funds could only be used [00:13:00] to support the portion of the project [00:13:05] that would be used for pedestrian and bicycles, [00:13:10] and so we would need to fund the golf cart part [00:13:17] of the bridge through our local funding sources exclusively. [00:13:23] And as Chopper pointed out, it's mostly people [00:13:26] that don't live in the city that would be using it. [00:13:28] Right. [00:13:29] What was the? [00:13:30] So, really, where we're at now on this thing, [00:13:32] in my opinion, is that we need more answers [00:13:36] ruling out golf carts. [00:13:37] We need more answers on cost of the acquisition [00:13:41] of property, whether it's a circular [00:13:43] or a straight down Marine Parkway. [00:13:45] And engineering costs, that's where we're at, [00:13:49] as far as I can see. [00:13:51] Do we have any kind of dimensions as far as width [00:13:53] and things like that? [00:13:54] That can be all based on DOT [00:13:56] or for the bicycle path and walk path going across? [00:14:01] Well, we could certainly, [00:14:03] I could certainly find other paths. [00:14:06] There are a number of them around the state. [00:14:08] Give you a width. [00:14:10] They're roughly 70 feet. [00:14:11] Standard. [00:14:12] No, they're more than that. [00:14:13] They're about 10 to 12 feet wide, I think. [00:14:15] No, I don't think they're even that wide. [00:14:17] Yeah, they are Chopper. [00:14:18] The overpass? [00:14:20] That's not in the one in Dunedin, is it? [00:14:22] I would say more than eight. [00:14:25] Currently, in the current fiscal year, [00:14:29] we did establish an appropriation [00:14:31] in the amount of $100,000 for the planning [00:14:35] associated with this project. [00:14:38] We're recommending an appropriation [00:14:40] in the next fiscal year as well, [00:14:43] which will help us go forward [00:14:46] with all of the planning that's necessary [00:14:48] for us to define those project elements [00:14:51] and to come back to you with those definitions. [00:14:55] Peter, you had some thoughts? [00:14:56] Yeah, I'll just down the decision points again, [00:14:59] and then I'll... [00:15:00] I want to recognize, I see Gunther Flagg in the audience who is a property owner on the land on Trouble Creek that heads out to the beach. [00:15:08] So one of the discussions that has been had for a long time is the recreational aspect of this coast-to-coast trail coming from Cape Canaveral across the coast. [00:15:21] Currently it goes to about Starkey, well about to the Veterans Expressway and I think it heads somewhere along there into a suburgatory through Hillsborough and Pinellas County. [00:15:34] Which to get to the coast would take, I would guess, probably 12 to 15 major north-south roads, not, you know, Curlew, 19, Alt 19, and it goes on. [00:15:50] So the advantage of having us connect to the Pinellas Trail is not just the map that has been shown by Charles, but we do have an interested party who has indicated helping us to get that link to the coast. [00:16:05] Which we have a county park there, which would also allow our residents on bicycles to ride out to the county park directly off of Trouble Creek. [00:16:14] So I thank Gunther for being here. I don't know, we normally don't take comments, but I think he's an interested party if you would like to invite him up. [00:16:22] I was going to open it up for comments from anybody in the audience. [00:16:25] No, so let me complete my comments then if I can. [00:16:28] So back to the bullet points, the third one that was brought up has to do with the bus transit station. [00:16:34] And really nobody, we have had very little appetite for, you know, increasing the bus transit traffic, but the reality is that the county has identified the north-south connections from New Port Richey north to Hudson and from New Port Richey south. [00:16:55] They've also talked about the express link of having an express bus that would lead into St. Pete and Pinellas and connect to folks that are commuting. [00:17:08] And there's been talk about that. It hasn't occurred yet, but transit is always a big issue. [00:17:13] It's controversial, but what I don't think is controversial is that they've identified how their bus routes go and they want some kind of transfer station. [00:17:23] Now, when I first became aware of this project and had some conversation with the county, they wanted that transfer station to be on, wasn't it downtown or Main Street and 19? [00:17:38] And we really didn't cotton to that idea. [00:17:43] And so when that was rejected, they were then looking at what I think is a lighting business right across of Gulf Drive from the Starbucks, just so they could accomplish a place for all the buses to come in and have riders switching or someplace for someone to go and go east, west, or east, north, and south. [00:18:08] Their design was a trimmed down design, which didn't have any bathrooms, which would have been a disaster to the city resident Starbucks because that property was not in the city limits. [00:18:20] So if we didn't allow them to put it in the city limits, and correct me if I'm wrong, Debbie, but I think you may have been in on that conversation. [00:18:29] I think you were here at the time when all that was going on. [00:18:32] They were just going to put something just to get it done. [00:18:35] And so the fact that they still have that on the priority list and the fact that they have federal money and could help us with property acquisition or right away, I think it's my opinion it's worthwhile asking the county what their intentions are because they didn't even tell us they were planning to put that transfer station in. [00:18:58] I remember Councilman Starkey was upset because he didn't even know of their plans. [00:19:03] And he was involved with the transportation even at the time. [00:19:07] So to me, it's not a – it doesn't seem to be something that we like to see when we see some of the customers on the buses, but in what we've been told about future generations and some not having cars, they had envisioned a bike and ride and a park and ride facility that was – and they had suggested they would have security and restrooms. [00:19:34] So if the county was going to upgrade something they're bringing here to allow us to have them commit to security of a station like that, it would probably be worth entertaining at least learning what their ambitions are. [00:19:49] So I would suggest we would find out if they really are planning to do it and if they don't, if we couldn't swap places, you know, if we put some – put a little bit of skin in the game as Commissioner Oakley had said. [00:20:04] The first – well, we were only on council for a few months before we had that county meeting when Mr. Oakley began to talk about expecting cities to do something because they have the bully pulpit when it comes to helping to divide and identify that stuff. [00:20:22] I don't know how you all feel about it, but a modern station that might be a link to jobs in Pinellas County with express buses landing back in our city might not be a bad thing that we should try to reject. [00:20:42] So I'm yes on that question or at least explore it. [00:20:49] You've got some potential area along Floormark Terrace where they could set the station. [00:20:57] Obviously Southgate, although I don't know that the folks at Southgate would be terribly thrilled at the prospect of the bus transfer station sitting there. [00:21:06] I'm just not sure I see the need for it. [00:21:13] There's one down at the little abandoned shopping plaza just north of – on the northwest corner of Moog and 19, and there's another transfer station at Gulfview Square Mall. [00:21:28] Well, this was to bend the hub, I guess, in their minds, so would it be not worthwhile asking them to really tell us what their intentions are? [00:21:36] I'm not saying we advocate for it, but there was a point when biking and catching a ride was a potential. [00:21:50] It wouldn't hurt to ask them what they've got on their mind. [00:21:54] See if it will save a little bit of money. [00:21:57] At this point, I'll open it up for public comment. [00:21:59] Anybody has some comments? [00:22:01] If you could come up to the podium and give us your name and address for the record, please. [00:22:07] Hi, my name is Shelly Sorenson, and it's 5500 Riva Del Place, New Port Richey. [00:22:24] It's easy to probably begin to understand the large cost that would go along with this project, the expense. [00:22:35] But it might be harder to discern how much money it could also bring into the city by bringing people with golf carts that maybe might not want to come in with their vehicles crossing 19. [00:22:51] This might offer a safer way to do that. [00:22:55] So I just wanted to give that comment. [00:23:00] Thank you. [00:23:06] Good afternoon, dear council members. [00:23:08] Mr. Mayor, my name is Gunter Flagg. [00:23:10] I live at 7712 West County Line Road in Odessa, Florida. [00:23:16] My family and I own a piece of property at the west end of Trouble Creek Road, the property that Mr. Altman mentioned. [00:23:26] And I am, just for reference, I'm a home builder developer. [00:23:31] I'm an avid cyclist. [00:23:33] I'm also on the Pasco County, on the BPAC, which stands for Bicycle and Pedestrian Advisory Committee. [00:23:40] And for some reason, Mr. Altman and I have been discussing creating trail linkage for the last 10 years. [00:23:49] And at this point, we as a business and family and a family of outdoor enthusiasts offered our support, which I wanted to renew today to you all, [00:24:02] that we will make everything that's within our control possible to help route a trail system away from US-19 to a property that you, the city, owns, [00:24:16] going past our property and potentially even opening up a possibility for you all to create a waterfront park near the west end of Trouble Creek. [00:24:27] And from there on, the trail would possibly continue down Strauber Memorial Parkway and connect with the Pinellas Trail. [00:24:36] As you may know, the top end of the Pinellas, the continuation of the Pinellas Trail ends currently at, I forget the name of the park, help me out. [00:24:50] Key Vista? [00:24:52] Key Vista, yes. [00:24:54] I believe it's called the Coastal Anchor Trail. [00:24:57] It's a beautiful trail if you haven't walked it or ridden it by bicycle. [00:25:03] And as part of a member of the Pasco County BPAC, we are hedging a dream to create a recommendation to the MPO and subsequently the county commission to create funds to create a trail running parallel with Strauber Memorial Highway [00:25:24] in order to create more linkage, either from south to north or north to south, however you want to look at it. [00:25:33] As a cyclist, and I was born and raised in Germany and rode my bicycle from grade school through college to work and ridden many roads all over the world on a bicycle. [00:25:48] And there's nothing more enjoyable than riding your bike in a safe manner through large stretches of the countryside. [00:25:58] And obviously other countries have spent more money on those endeavors and have been very successful with it in attracting tourism, let alone facilitating local commuters to get to work safely or children to go to school independently of being chaperoned by parents or having to be driven to school by a bus system. [00:26:21] Having said that, I think you have a wonderful opportunity in conjunction with this overpass, which I would personally highly recommend. [00:26:40] We're such a wealthy country, we ought to be able to create not only the political will, but find the funding to hook up the west side with the east side. [00:26:52] I think the benefits would go beyond residents who reside in Gulf Harbors who are not members of the city at this point, but it would also create a wonderful link in terms of cyclotourism. [00:27:08] And you may have heard that two years ago, I think some national organization for cyclotourism had their annual meeting, I believe, somewhere down in Pinellas County with cyclotourist advocates from all over the world, because they realized that if you spend money on cyclotourism, people will come. [00:27:30] And to date, Pasco County as a whole, I like to say, has not a way for people, even though Pasco County has an emerging trail system, the county, and perhaps in this case the city as well, has not found a way to allow the people to get off the bike and spend money in the county or the city. [00:27:50] Because you take the Starkey Park trail system, you park somewhere off of 52 or 54, and yes, you go on through a wonderful landscape, but you cannot stop anywhere and buy refreshments or go shopping or go lodging. [00:28:07] And so part of our efforts, the same goes for cyclotourists that you encounter a lot that come from Alaska. People ride down on the West Coast, transfer across the Midwest, and come down here to Florida to go to Key West. There's a lot of people en route, and they're always looking for the safest ways. [00:28:25] There's an organization called Hot Showers. It's an internet website where you can volunteer your property for cyclotourists to camp on your property, and you'll provide them a hot shower so they have a safe place to stay overnight and continue. [00:28:44] And my son experienced that himself when he cycled to the last soccer World Cup in South America and Brazil, from San Diego all the way down to Brazil. So there's many aspects to cycling which are, I think, overlooked, and because the hidden benefits are truly tough to discover. [00:29:08] And, and, but, again, it's sort of the old adage, if you built it, they will come. And so the, the, the, just maybe in closing, I think what we're considering in the BPAC, in the Pasco, in Pasco County Bicycle Advisory, Pedestrian Advisory Committee, is to promote or to suggest overlay districts associated with trails where, where you grant different overlay zoning. [00:29:36] Where you allow it to, for instance, in the Starkey Park, or anywhere else where, where in, in the end, the planners will consent to it. You, you create an overlay zoning district where you can have a bed and breakfast, or where you can have a restaurant, or, or all kinds of vending, or bicycle rentals, or anything that promotes commuting or riding your bicycle. [00:30:00] And, and, in order to, you know, justify the expense. [00:30:03] It obviously comes with creating bicycle trails. [00:30:05] Because in turn, if people spend money, they will generate taxes, [00:30:09] which hopefully benefit us all. [00:30:11] So, with that said, thanks for the opportunity and, and our [00:30:15] continued pledge to, to help you in any way we can. [00:30:18] Thank you, Gunther. [00:30:19] Thank you. [00:30:19] One of the other points that, while this gentleman's coming down, that, that [00:30:24] hasn't been mentioned, we've got a fair number of lower income folks who live [00:30:32] in the subdivisions on north or south of Marine Parkway, between US 19 and Grand. [00:30:39] And having this available would allow them to get to Southgate to [00:30:43] shop without having to take a car. [00:30:46] So there's some definite benefits there. [00:30:48] Yes. [00:30:49] Good evening, I'm Dan Holback, 5614 Red Snapper Court, Newport, Virginia. [00:30:54] You can raise the mic. [00:30:55] You can raise the mic. [00:30:56] Thanks, Chopper. [00:30:57] That's why you're up there and I'm down here. [00:30:59] Anyway, I appreciate you. [00:31:02] One of my questions was, and maybe just something to think about. [00:31:05] Mary, you brought up a really good point that maybe I was missing. [00:31:08] But, I was thinking maybe the crosswalk should be up towards Main and 19. [00:31:16] I thought it would be really good, especially with the college going in and [00:31:19] things of that nature. [00:31:21] Some of you spoke about the busing and interchanges and things. [00:31:26] Either side of 19 up that way would probably be easy to accommodate all that [00:31:30] stuff. [00:31:31] So that was just stuff that I wanted to bring up, and I didn't know if that had [00:31:34] been considered or if it could be. [00:31:37] Well, thank you. [00:31:38] That was it. [00:31:38] Thanks, guys. [00:31:39] In an ideal world, probably. [00:31:44] There are no safe ways of getting across right now at all. [00:31:49] And, yeah, but we've got to start somewhere. [00:31:53] If you could also make a really cool welcoming, I forgot to mention too, [00:31:56] about the King Way to Newport, which you kind of think is pretty cool. [00:32:00] Thank you. [00:32:00] John? [00:32:02] John Cain, 6041 Florida Avenue. [00:32:07] One of the things that came up when we went to the county, the county had put [00:32:13] on a little workshop, and it was the idea of the underpass rather than the [00:32:20] overpass by the bridge. [00:32:23] And it was rolling along until there was disappointment because it was being [00:32:32] talked about being built as it was, which was a multi-use trail. [00:32:38] And I think an important thing for you people to do as planners here too, you're [00:32:45] going to have to separate the desire of some to take a multi-use trail and turn [00:32:52] it into something else. [00:32:54] So I appreciate golf carts around town. [00:32:58] Golf carts are really for streets. [00:33:00] They're heavy. [00:33:01] They're big. [00:33:02] There is no possible way you're going to incorporate a multi-use trail and golf [00:33:07] carts together and have it operate safely. [00:33:10] It's just not going to happen, OK? [00:33:13] So once you alleviate that factor out of it, you're talking about biking. [00:33:19] I personally would have liked to have seen the trail by the bridge going under, [00:33:24] which I thought would make more sense, get people to the west side that way. [00:33:29] It's a shorter span. [00:33:31] In my mind, less building. [00:33:33] In my mind, it has to be cheaper. [00:33:37] And it really makes good sense. [00:33:38] And it brings people out along that river, which I'm hoping that at some point we'll [00:33:45] be able to make a multi-use trail there. [00:33:47] It wouldn't take much to do. [00:33:52] And that would get everyone to the west side. [00:33:54] I'm a little leery about Marine Parkway. [00:33:58] I understand the advantages. [00:34:00] But you're talking about quite a project. [00:34:03] And although it would benefit some of us, I mean, I bike all over. [00:34:09] I can cross 19. [00:34:11] I do it now. [00:34:12] And I do it with the light. [00:34:14] And I get off my bicycle, and I press a button, and I go with the light. [00:34:20] And if you watch yourself, it's manageable. [00:34:23] When you take the Pinellas Trail and you head south, you're doing that an [00:34:27] awful lot down there. [00:34:29] There's not overpasses everywhere. [00:34:31] There's the one in Dunedin, certainly. [00:34:33] But a lot of the cities did not invest in accommodating such a thing. [00:34:38] And as a bicyclist, I mean, I've been hit once already. [00:34:43] But not that I'm looking to continually do that. [00:34:47] But there is an element of risk. [00:34:49] And you have to be cautious. [00:34:51] And that comes into play. [00:34:53] So you have to decide as to what the purpose is of this overpass and the [00:34:58] price tag that's going to be attached to it. [00:35:00] And that's it. [00:35:02] Thank you, John. [00:35:03] Anyone else? [00:35:05] Bring it back for any final comments. [00:35:08] Matt? [00:35:12] Well, a lot of things. [00:35:14] But I guess we'll get into the design phase of it, too. [00:35:19] I definitely think we should make it big enough work to accommodate things [00:35:22] in the future if we need to. [00:35:25] That's one of my things, make it wide enough. [00:35:30] And other locations this time probably aren't going to happen. [00:35:36] That location there is what we've been talking about and trying to move [00:35:39] forward, so I think we need to go with that. [00:35:44] As far as the bus transfer station, I mean, it's worth talking to them and [00:35:47] seeing what they have in mind. [00:35:48] If it saves us some money in the whole process, well, then that's great. [00:35:53] If not, I don't necessarily know if we need them or not. [00:35:56] We'll see. [00:35:59] But I just look forward to, as we move forward with this in the design [00:36:01] part, and see what comes of it and what other kind of funding [00:36:05] sources we can get for it. [00:36:10] I think the cumulative effect of safety, the travel of our own [00:36:16] residents to the grocery store, which we have two gas stations across [00:36:21] Main Street, we'll now have a gas station, we'll have a new one. [00:36:24] It's a tight right-of-way, as Burger King has taken every possible part [00:36:29] of that road that there is already. [00:36:32] But most importantly, I think economic development. [00:36:35] We have Charles from the Economic Development Department [00:36:40] presenting it tonight. [00:36:41] I think we really need to understand the economic benefit that it could [00:36:47] have in opening up just a ton of bicycle enthusiasts from Pinellas [00:36:52] County, especially if pushing the scenic trail to the Gulf. [00:37:01] And the name of that state crossing trail is the Coast to Coast Trail. [00:37:07] So if somebody is a bicycle enthusiast who's a tourist, then I think this is [00:37:12] our one shot, really, to try to connect with some tourism and also all of the [00:37:19] advantages of folks who want to ride their bike. [00:37:22] So I'm really enthusiastic about it where it is. [00:37:25] We've spent millions of dollars on Marine Parkway. [00:37:28] It's a nice, wide trail. [00:37:30] We're about to do Grand back into town that way. [00:37:33] So we've really kind of laid this out in terms of long-term planning. [00:37:38] It's tough to stop it in that direction and move it in another. [00:37:44] And so I'm excited that we're into the budget phase already, I guess, of design. [00:37:51] Debbie, we're already under design or in design for the Grand Boulevard portion? [00:37:57] Yes, we are. [00:37:58] That's correct. [00:37:58] So we've got a new bridge going in. [00:38:01] We've got to find out how that trail matches, makes us go from that point in [00:38:06] 19 back. [00:38:07] So if someone reversed course and went to the north, they're going to end up on [00:38:12] Highway 19. [00:38:13] And certainly, you can cross, but I don't think we could get that trail, that [00:38:19] recreational trail impact without it. [00:38:22] And it would still give us, for folks coming north, an opportunity to see [00:38:27] something overhead on 19, as the gentleman points out, which is a good point, that [00:38:33] it would be a welcome to New Port Richey at Marine Parkway versus Main [00:38:38] Street. [00:38:39] And with what I think is happening on Main, we're going to turn them down [00:38:42] Main Street with our entry features that we're working on there. [00:38:47] I'm fully in support of it, and I think that there's going to be a lot of [00:38:50] infrastructure dollars. [00:38:53] I have a good feeling that if we get it shovel-ready over the next couple of [00:38:56] years, that's how Pinellas County built all of those things. [00:39:01] Money was available, projects came loose, and so they pick a shovel-ready [00:39:07] project. [00:39:08] And I think you'll probably hear that term, Matt, as you're now on the MPO [00:39:15] board. [00:39:16] And we fight for some of those other dollars and match some funds with it. [00:39:20] So thank you for, I think we have a good consensus on where I'm ahead. [00:39:27] I think it's important from an ecotourism standpoint with the long-distance [00:39:33] cyclists that will absolutely love it, but I think it also works for our [00:39:37] residents here that may be having trouble getting safely across US-19. [00:39:45] This from my perspective is not the solution, but it is a first step. [00:39:53] I think ultimately from a safety standpoint, we need the overpass at US-19 [00:40:01] and Marine Parkway. [00:40:02] We need the underpass under the Cody River Bridge. [00:40:07] We probably need at least one or two more overpasses between the two, [00:40:14] potentially Main Street, potentially Avery Road, just simply because that [00:40:21] street is deadly, absolutely deadly for pedestrians and cyclists that are [00:40:28] trying to cross it. [00:40:29] I don't, if Kim were here, he could probably tell us right off the top of his [00:40:34] head how many fatalities we've had in the last 12 or 18 months of people [00:40:39] trying to cross US-19 and getting hit. [00:40:43] But it seems to happen all too frequently, and making a safe way for folks [00:40:48] to get across I think is critical. [00:40:51] Chopper? [00:40:52] Nothing more to say. [00:40:56] So, Charles, let me, so you're asking for some direction. [00:40:59] Have you got a timeline to apply for this grant? [00:41:02] Is that? [00:41:03] Yes, the deadline is March. [00:41:05] Okay, so that's really why we're talking about this at this time. [00:41:08] Absolutely. [00:41:09] So you get some direction for that. [00:41:10] So, okay. [00:41:11] I just wanted to get that clarified. [00:41:13] One other thing is, when it's number nine on the NPO list, can you explain how [00:41:19] those projects move up? [00:41:21] I know there's a couple options there about how we might move up on the list, [00:41:26] but suppose there's no action. [00:41:28] Those things just go in order. [00:41:29] Do they just work on one and in two and work its way down? [00:41:32] Politics. [00:41:36] Politics. [00:41:37] All right. [00:41:37] Okay, gotcha. [00:41:38] All right. [00:41:38] It changes. [00:41:39] It changes year to year in how far we are in the process with land [00:41:43] acquisitions, things like that. [00:41:44] It all plays a part in it. [00:41:45] If you're a county commissioner and has property on both sides of a major highway. [00:41:50] You get moved up. [00:41:50] I gotcha. [00:41:51] Okay. [00:41:53] You know, I'm a cyclist. [00:41:56] There's countless times I've gone down to Tarpon Springs and parked and put on a trail [00:42:02] and ridden down the Pinellas Trail down to Sand Key Bridge and back. [00:42:06] Gone down there and had dinner and come back. [00:42:08] I've used Starkey Trail, used some of the off-site trails. [00:42:11] Never anywhere near what Gunther has done on bikes, but I enjoy it. [00:42:18] There's a lot of people that do. [00:42:21] So I'm in favor of a connector and a bridge for that purpose. [00:42:31] I think it will be one of those type of assets that we'll get for years and years. [00:42:37] And it is safe. [00:42:38] So that's my comments. [00:42:40] I just want to think, you talked about the Pinellas Trail. [00:42:44] It's done magnificent for downtown Dunedin. [00:42:47] And so if we get it up here, then it's going to do magnificent for downtown. [00:42:52] Absolutely. [00:42:54] Is there like county money that could be pitched in on this type deal? [00:42:58] Yes, there is. [00:42:59] Some funding sources that would be available within the county that we would be eligible [00:43:06] to apply for. [00:43:07] After the meeting sometime, I'll suggest a coast-to-coast trip you ought to try if you're [00:43:12] a cyclist. [00:43:13] Coast-to-coast had problems getting it to come into Dade City. [00:43:18] I've done the trip from Ormond Beach to Tarpon Springs. [00:43:21] Yeah, it's just that. [00:43:23] But it doesn't really come into Dade City, does it? [00:43:25] It goes more to... [00:43:26] No, it went... [00:43:27] That was a political thing and ended up in Hernando's Citrus and not in Dade City. [00:43:33] So that really... [00:43:34] Where they were big bike enthusiasts that didn't get it to go through there. [00:43:38] So we stay on it, you know, then we can get it to go through for Richie, we should.

   This text was generated automatically from the meeting video. It is not a verbatim or official record. For exact wording, consult the video or the city clerk.

3. 3

   ↳You arrived here from a search for “Main Street Landing parking garage” — transcript expanded below

   Property Acquisition Update

   discussed

   Staff provided an update on potential CRA acquisition of three waterfront properties: 6348 River Road (Montemayor pediatrician's office, appraised $410K, owners asking $1M), 6356 River Road (Potter vacant lot, review appraisal $270K), and 5432 Acorn Street (recently sold to new owner willing to sell to CRA for $260K). Council consensus was that parcels 1 and 2 are an all-or-nothing pair for boat ramp parking expansion, and parcel 3 should be acquired as a pocket park with kayak access rather than a full boat ramp. Direction was given to pursue acquisitions through the CRA and explore county partnership and grants.

   • consensus:Council consensus to pursue acquisition of parcels 1 and 2 together (or not at all) and to acquire parcel 3 as a pocket park with kayak access rather than constructing a full boat ramp; direction to handle through the CRA and explore county partnership and grants. (none)

   📍5432 Acorn Street📍6348 River Road📍6356 River Road🏢Main Street Landing👤Charlie Grant👤Chopper👤Councilman Murphy👤Dan Wright👤Debbie Vance👤Jeffrey👤Montemayor👤Mr. Potter👤Mr. Rudd👤Mrs. Potter👤Robert#Boat ramp construction estimate $499,807#CRA property acquisition#Main Street Landing parking garage#Master plan update#Sims Park

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   [00:43:44] Next item we've got is property acquisition update. [00:43:47] Mrs. Vance? [00:43:49] Yes, sir. [00:43:51] As most of you will recall, there was some discussion that took place early in 2020 [00:44:01] about potentially acquiring some waterfront properties. [00:44:07] Specifically, the CRA directed the staff to have some discussions related to 6348 River Road, [00:44:18] 6356 River Road, and 5432 Acorn Street. [00:44:26] Mr. Rudd has prepared a PowerPoint so that we can more specifically identify the parcels, [00:44:31] and we'll do that and talk to you a little bit about where we are [00:44:35] and update you as to the status of discussions that have taken place. [00:44:42] Thank you. [00:44:43] Mr. Rudd? [00:44:45] So this is the boat ramp site overhead. [00:44:49] And currently, the boat ramp, which is a 1.37-acre facility or site, [00:44:54] immediately adjacent to it is a little over half a mile wide. [00:45:00] half an acre, it's currently a pediatric office, [00:45:03] pediatrician's office. [00:45:05] And then 6356 is the same size parcel, [00:45:09] actually has split zoning, half it's R2, [00:45:11] half of it is office. [00:45:16] And then the third parcel is on the south side [00:45:19] of the Main Street Landing Project, [00:45:22] is approximately a quarter of an acre and zoned R2. [00:45:26] And this represents all three of those properties. [00:45:29] The first property, which is an income-producing property, [00:45:35] is 6348 River Road, and it's currently leased [00:45:41] by a pediatrician's office, and there is an apartment [00:45:46] housed in the second floor of the building. [00:45:52] We did have an appraisal conducted on the property. [00:45:59] The value of the property was determined at that time, [00:46:03] which was, I think, March of 2020. [00:46:09] That one was October of 2019, actually. [00:46:12] Was it? [00:46:13] Okay, thank you. [00:46:14] It was $410,000. [00:46:17] It, though, was based on a sales approach [00:46:21] and not an income-based approach. [00:46:25] At the time, the Montemayors, who are the property owners, [00:46:30] requested a million dollars for the parcel, [00:46:36] and their offer was based on the fact [00:46:42] that they thought that the income of the property [00:46:46] should be reflected in the appraisal. [00:46:52] That being said, we needed some income information [00:46:56] in order to establish a value, [00:47:00] and we had hoped to have received that [00:47:05] so that we could have an updated appraisal [00:47:08] for you at this time, but we learned as late as today [00:47:12] that the son-in-law, Charlie Grant, [00:47:14] who seems to be the person that's assuming [00:47:18] the responsibility for providing the information, [00:47:21] has not completely provided all that is required, [00:47:25] so we aren't able to provide an updated value [00:47:30] to you at this time, but we're hopeful, [00:47:35] and I will put out a phone call to Mr. Grant [00:47:39] and remind him to do so, [00:47:42] that we can provide a number to you in the short term. [00:47:48] The next property is the vacant property, [00:47:54] which is located north of the Montemayor property [00:47:59] and owned by Mr. Potter at 6356 River Road, [00:48:04] Mr. and Mrs. Potter, I believe. [00:48:08] The appraisal on the property [00:48:12] originally came in at $170,000, [00:48:19] and an offer was made at that time [00:48:25] of $200,000, which was rejected by the property owner [00:48:31] who made a counteroffer of $300,000 [00:48:35] and questioned the validity of some of the [00:48:43] appraiser's comparable data that was provided, [00:48:49] and he provided some other data, [00:48:53] which did call to question some of the data [00:48:57] that was relied on to establish the value, [00:49:00] therefore we decided to have a review appraisal conducted, [00:49:05] and that review appraisal determined [00:49:09] that the market value was actually $270,000, [00:49:14] and that seems much closer to what a market value [00:49:20] for that property, for a property of that size [00:49:26] with that much water frontage would be, [00:49:30] and if you determine that the property's still of interest, [00:49:36] then we'll continue to have discussions in that respect. [00:49:41] The final property is located just south [00:49:46] of Main Street Landings, and when the property [00:49:51] was originally presented to you for consideration, [00:49:55] the purpose of it was to establish a boat ramp, [00:50:01] and there was some concern expressed [00:50:07] as to whether or not the parcel was large enough [00:50:10] to accommodate a boat ramp, [00:50:14] and so an engineer was hired [00:50:20] to determine whether or not it was large enough [00:50:22] to accommodate both inbound and outbound traffic [00:50:27] of a boat and a trailer, and it was determined [00:50:31] that it is large enough to accommodate the traffic. [00:50:36] It did not provide for any parking of a trailer, [00:50:42] and so that is something, if we determine [00:50:46] that we'd like to use that property [00:50:49] for an additional recreational amenity available [00:50:56] to the public, that we would need to decide [00:50:58] how to go forward with that. [00:51:01] The first appraisal on the property, [00:51:06] which was done in March of 2020, [00:51:10] indicated a market value of $190,000, [00:51:16] and the owner at the time indicated [00:51:21] that he was much more interested [00:51:24] in a number closer to $250,000. [00:51:30] Mr. Rudd made an offer to him in the amount [00:51:33] of $210,000, which was rejected, [00:51:38] and the negotiations ended for a period of time, [00:51:43] and ultimately the property was sold [00:51:50] to another buyer who purchased the property [00:51:54] in the amount of $250,000. [00:51:59] That property owner did present themselves [00:52:02] to the city and has indicated an interest [00:52:05] in selling the property to the city [00:52:08] and has indicated a willingness to do so [00:52:12] at their cost, which would just be plus [00:52:19] some expenses that they incurred [00:52:23] since the ownership of the property [00:52:27] which they acquired in July of 2020. [00:52:32] That would be $10,000, meaning that they would be [00:52:35] willing to sell the parcel of property [00:52:38] to the CRA for $260,000. [00:52:43] That would be for the purpose of establishing [00:52:45] both a boat ramp and likely a kayak ramp as well. [00:52:51] When the city worked with the engineer [00:53:02] to determine that it would be possible [00:53:04] to accommodate a boat ramp on the property, [00:53:06] we also asked the engineer to prepare [00:53:11] an estimate as to the probable construction cost [00:53:15] of a boat ramp at the property. [00:53:18] That was $499,807 at the time. [00:53:27] This is the type of project that would be grant eligible. [00:53:34] It likely would be the type of a grant [00:53:38] that would be considered favorably. [00:53:43] It would, in my opinion, be a 50-50 type of grant. [00:53:50] The city or the CRA would need to pay [00:53:55] maybe half or so in order to secure some funding [00:54:01] to support the construction of the boat ramp [00:54:07] at that property. [00:54:09] I wanted to bring you up to date [00:54:11] on where we were with that. [00:54:15] I should have been more complete [00:54:18] in the description of the other two properties, [00:54:20] which I didn't just because some of that discussion [00:54:25] has already taken place in respect [00:54:27] to our master plan update. [00:54:31] I'm prepared to respond to any questions [00:54:33] that you might have of me or Mr. Rudd [00:54:37] in regard to our update of the discussions [00:54:41] and actions taken in respect [00:54:44] to these three pieces of riverfront property. [00:54:51] Jeffrey, do you have any thoughts? [00:54:53] Let's call the one at the most north one, [00:54:59] the second one Montemarie, number two, [00:55:01] and the other one number three, [00:55:03] just for easy figuring. [00:55:05] Number one, it's probably only got, what, [00:55:07] 20, 25 feet at the river road entrance? [00:55:11] It has a very small entrance. [00:55:13] Right, so my first opinion, [00:55:15] if we don't acquire both of them [00:55:17] to have number one and not number two, [00:55:19] it doesn't work very well. [00:55:20] Not if we're going to move boats in and out [00:55:22] and try to do anything there. [00:55:24] It's either, in my opinion, an all or none thing. [00:55:28] They're price-wise, that's, I mean, [00:55:32] after Wednesday, who knows what costs the properties. [00:55:38] Things are going to change. [00:55:40] I don't know the answer to price-wise [00:55:43] and buying the property, [00:55:44] but waterfront property isn't going to be, [00:55:46] isn't growing unless we get a hurricane. [00:55:50] But number three property, [00:55:53] I have some reservations there. [00:55:55] One is I don't really see a backup [00:55:57] getting in and out of the boat ramp [00:55:59] that we already have. [00:56:01] And then we also have kayak launching in the park [00:56:04] and we're actually having a vendor [00:56:07] to come into the park. [00:56:08] So I just question whether we really, [00:56:11] I mean, sure, buy the property, [00:56:13] but putting half a million dollars into a boat ramp, [00:56:18] which we really don't really need, in my opinion, [00:56:20] because we don't have a backup right now [00:56:23] on the existing boat ramp. [00:56:27] So that's where I'm at on those things. [00:56:29] Right. [00:56:31] So, Robert, I think you raised a good question. [00:56:35] Do we need another boat ramp? [00:56:38] Number one, right? [00:56:43] And number two, as I look at the properties, [00:56:47] there's some shortcomings between one and three. [00:56:51] In my opinion, I think one is a better value. [00:56:54] You've got more waterfront. [00:56:56] It's 50% bigger than property three. [00:57:01] But you do have the bottleneck getting in and out. [00:57:05] You know, if we go to boat ramps [00:57:08] and then now we've got to worry about parking, [00:57:12] I have some reservations that if we do that, [00:57:16] I don't see us using that property [00:57:18] for asphalt and for parking. [00:57:20] It's got to be some kind of green space or park. [00:57:23] I see lots number one and two [00:57:25] kind of being across the river, continuation of Sims Park. [00:57:30] The valuation of those properties, [00:57:32] you know, maybe why lot one hasn't sold, [00:57:36] is that, you know, living on the river, [00:57:38] you want to use the back part of the river [00:57:41] as your recreation, and that's your backyard [00:57:44] and the view and all that. [00:57:47] I'm not sure, if you had a house there, [00:57:49] you'd want, you know, how many people in the park [00:57:53] looking in your backyard and your back windows all the time. [00:57:56] So that's not the most ideal lot for a resident, [00:58:02] although some people would like it just fine, I suppose. [00:58:05] But I think it would be a great continuation of Sims Park. [00:58:10] I could see, rather than trying to launch kayaks, [00:58:14] I know we can launch kayaks in the Sims Park there, [00:58:19] and we have that dock space, but it's limited. [00:58:22] It's limited to having to carry in. [00:58:24] It'd be a lot easier if there would be a circular drive [00:58:26] someone could drop their kayaks off [00:58:28] and go park and come back and launch them. [00:58:31] And more dock space would be available there [00:58:35] for actually people who might want to come in by boat, [00:58:39] park, and walk their ways into the city. [00:58:41] So I have some reservations of lot three for that purpose [00:58:48] because it's size and narrow, [00:58:51] and I just think the other represents better values. [00:58:55] Can I just ask one question before we go on? [00:58:58] In the parking garage that we're going to build, [00:59:02] is there some outdoor parking where people that have boats [00:59:04] would be able to park their trailers, their boats? [00:59:08] At the structure or adjacent to the structure? [00:59:11] Yeah, adjacent to the structure. [00:59:12] So it's all the structure and all in there? [00:59:14] Correct. [00:59:15] Okay. [00:59:16] Yeah, I think parcels one and two, as we've talked about, [00:59:21] would basically be overflow parking for the existing ramp. [00:59:27] And no, you would not have to necessarily asphalt them. [00:59:31] There are a lot of boat parking areas [00:59:34] that use some sort of permeable space covering. [00:59:44] But I'm in agreement. [00:59:47] Parcel one doesn't make any sense whatsoever [00:59:51] unless we can secure parcel two. [00:59:55] It's got to be basically all or nothing on that. [01:00:00] because of how tight it is right at that corner of River Road. If we had both parcels, you could basically expand the existing boat ramp area across the property boundaries and you wouldn't be constrained by how tight things are at the river side because you've already got plenty of River Road access with the existing boat ramp. [01:00:29] It would just give you a way to get more vehicles in there. Right now, if they run out of room to park their trailers, they tend to be all over the place or they have to go all the way down to the church property we own and there's a church between that and the boat ramp that are continually grousing about the fact that boaters like to come and take up their parking lot. [01:00:59] So, there's definitely a need for the parking place. Three to me falls in that nice to have category but not nearly as essential as the other two. [01:01:16] Well, Mr. Mayor, before you create the closed consensus here not to do it, could we take a look to the left side of the dais here? [01:01:25] I'm working my way down. You're up. [01:01:29] I think that the perfect segue of what we've been talking about, all three of my colleagues on the City Council here, is that you're talking as City Council members, you know, where's our recreational asset, where's our boat ramp, parking, things that the city does from its recreational standpoint. [01:01:51] One of the comments I think in the work notes was, do we kick this to the CRA? Because, you know, it's very difficult to put a different hat on and say, you know, what is the economic value again? [01:02:07] So, I'm going to say we should kick this to the CRA as we develop that. And I would just share a couple things with you. One, the red line represents the lot that would be potentially acquired, but the appropriate red line could be to incorporate Acorn Street, which the city already owns. [01:02:27] And then to the top left of that trapezoid would be a grass area, which is now a dog walk park of sorts, which is privately owned. In the process, which I've had the good fortune of being able to, in the early stages, find those folks that are moving into the Main Street Landing, [01:02:54] the number of folks with paddle boards, the number of folks with their kayak clubs, and the number of folks who want to fish, who would use a john boat or something that would go to our nature preserve to our 80 acres. [01:03:10] It seems to me, with the existing parking, which only during Labor Day or the big days do you really get to see the scalloping. Do you really get to see the full, you know, people all across the county trying to scramble to find a way to put their boat in? [01:03:29] And with the COVID, I think the outdoor thing and scalloping was a good example. But they filled their first church. They also filled the city-owned church lot. And I think, Chopper, you even alluded to, where can they take it? And maybe if they had a shuttle, they could get back. [01:03:48] But to me, economically, it would be a waste to spend a million and a half or whatever, plus more to develop the parking lot on the river. I think the parking, or even the expansion of folks from outside the county to use this ramp to get out into the Gulf, is one of the reasons, I think, for objections I've heard from folks who live closer to the Gulf, [01:04:17] who talk about the speeding and the traffic control. So, recreation of motorized vehicles heading out the river and running back has been some common complaint we've had. But from an economic standpoint, if the CRA looked at it, I'll guarantee you that the potential we're going to see in the next few months, as it appears, of more density, more residents, more people in condos. [01:04:45] They don't have any storage facilities. We're talking a boat ramp. Maybe it's not a ramp. Maybe it's just a place for folks to pull up and go in and get something. Maybe it's a commercial application. But it's also next to some residential, so there needs to be a buffer. [01:05:05] And if you look at those four little pads in Main Street Landing that are facing right into that, those are the first units to be sold, not to be rented. And they're rented because they've got the long view all the way down the river. So they have that back window, if you've been in those condos, and they look all the way out. They were the first ones to fill up because they have the best view. [01:05:32] So from a recreational park standpoint, it's a beautiful spot. And it may not be the most optimal spot with three floors of balconies right above it to have a house. And so I think, too, all of those new development and the new residential growth that we hope to occur, we said it when we first gave direction to the city manager, yeah, we've heard it from our consultants. [01:06:01] As much of a footprint as we can get on the river, we ought to. As city councilmen, we ought not be buying it. But as CRA directors, with our planning that's coming up, those are great assets that can allow for us to rent things more quickly because this is what the folks that are moving in are wanting. They're wanting to get out on the water and get out into the nature. [01:06:26] I think that number three has a lot of merit, even as another of our river pocket parks. If nothing else, we've got a map of our river. You can stop at Grand Boulevard, Francis Avenue, 80 Acres, Jasmine Park. We are, if not a long river walk, we're a river with stops and parks and bathrooms all along the way. [01:06:51] I think it would be a dream for developer and planners to be able to have those public spaces, and I suspect they could tell us how that could help to generate value for us. So I'm in favor of trying to secure it. I think that's the direction we've been going in. [01:07:15] You said for Parcel No. 3, Acorn Street, that there was grant opportunity for that. Is there not for 1 and 2 at all? [01:07:23] There would be grant opportunities, yes. It would be much more limited, though, because we do not have, at this point, a specific plan for the redevelopment of those parcels. [01:07:50] We would not be eligible for a grant necessarily just to acquire them, and so it would depend on how we plan to use them. If we plan to put in some boat docks, then we would be able to ask for some grant funding. If there was a building of some sort to be put in place, there may be some grant funding for that. [01:08:18] Okay. And I think, obviously, 2 is probably the most important. Of course, expand the current boat ramp with some parking, too, but I don't see us not adding at least another ramp, one ramp, acquiring that. That wouldn't make sense to acquire them for parking, just parking alone. I think we'd have to expand the boat ramp itself, too, at least one other slip. [01:08:45] But 2 is the most important. Without 2, 1 is not necessary. So I think that's where our priority lies. [01:08:53] Going back to the C property, with the grant money, it looks a lot more advertising to try to acquire that one. I think I'd be in favor if that were the case. I don't think I'm in favor of an actual boat ramp. I just think it's not big enough. Even though they say you can make it happen, I just think it's going to be too congested to try to get big trucks and trailers and then try to find a place to park and that kind of thing. [01:09:23] I think it's more suited for a park with a kayak launch, that kind of thing, more eco-tourism. And that way we can take it away from the boat-boat ramp, kind of keep them separate so they're not running over each other or one running over the other. But I think we definitely need to work on 2. [01:09:42] I want to say I feel like, because it's a city where we might be taking advantage of what the people want to sell, and that aggravates me because I want everybody to be on board and trying to better the city and do that kind of thing. So I know it is what it is, but hopefully they can come to some agreement with something that's reasonable, fair pricing. [01:10:07] The other thing is, I haven't done a poll or anything, but I guarantee you over 50% of the people using that boat ramp are county people, they're not even city people. And I think that's an opportunity to go to the county and say, and we've talked about this before, and say, hey, would you like to help us with that? And I think they're always looking for new opportunities for boat ramps too. [01:10:31] I think they may be okay with that and helping us acquire that and do some of the stuff we need. And if not, well then, you know, I kind of feel like if you're a county resident, well you need to buy a pass to use the boat ramp in downtown New Port Richey then. I think that's only fair. So those are my thoughts. [01:10:50] Yeah, I would buy three as a pocket park with perhaps kayak stuff. I don't think a boat ramp makes sense there. It's just way too tight. But that's sort of where I am. [01:11:05] I just would like you to get some numbers, if you can, from New Port Richey or whoever actually handles that boat ramp up there. Because that's pretty much the same size as ours, and I was wondering if they actually get that much more traffic than we do because they're easier access to the Gulf. [01:11:27] As a boater and going by each one, I guarantee they get a lot more activity up there. [01:11:36] Yeah, but I just wonder what the number is. [01:11:39] You know, I go back to my first question. Do we need another boat ramp, per se? I'm not sure the city is, you know, in charge of providing, you know, Gulf access to the entire county and state. [01:11:53] And I think that, again, the people that put the boat ramp in or that put in our boat ramp, like Councilman Murphy said, is probably, I think it's less than 50% would be city residents. [01:12:10] I think it'd be closer. If it's 20% of city residents, I'd be surprised. And, you know, as far as the county, you know, there might be property up on, you know, south side of the river by U.S. 19. [01:12:25] It'd be required to pay for a boat ramp or something for that purposes because people are trying to get to the Gulf. They're not trying to go up and down the river, not trying to come down to New Port Richey and dock and go shopping. [01:12:37] They've got limited space anyway. So, you know, I really have some reservation about the purpose of a boat ramp. [01:12:45] I can see a kayak paddleboard park, you know, with easy, for them to have easy access and some dockage to get in and out. You know, we've got quite an active kayak club. [01:12:57] We see more and more paddleboards up and down the river, and it lends itself to that, so. [01:13:07] As I did on the other topic, if anybody in the public would like to throw their two cents in, let's try to keep it down to three minutes so we can get done before the next item starts. [01:13:19] The first two properties, one and two, I would say keep them, let them stay on the open market. You know, I look at what happened with Dan Wright's old place, and it's being worked on, it's coming about. [01:13:35] And that's quite an extensive property, Dr. Montemayor's property there. If you look at it and you go in that courtyard, it really wraps around. [01:13:44] So I don't think that would be a wise investment, nor the lot to the north. However, number three is an ideal pocket park, potential for a pocket park. We stopped the street there. [01:13:55] I used to deliver there, by the way. That street used to go all the way in, and now it stops. But that little house has now been overshadowed. [01:14:04] You might say we've kind of imposed the situation on it. We're almost in a way, I think, obligated to do something with it. And that would be ideal. It's already got a nice little put-in for kayaks and all. [01:14:16] You wouldn't have to do much. You wouldn't have to build much of a dock. If you look, you'll see it's cement, it goes down, it angles down. [01:14:23] So if you put a pocket park there, you could easily, the main thing would be to have the parking. New Port Richey, you mentioned New Port Richey, I'd bike, that's part of my biking route, so I go out to Brasher Park almost every morning. [01:14:35] And that's well used. That is well used, that little park. People putting in their kayaks almost every morning. And I think you would get the same there on that river. [01:14:45] I think that would be utilized, I really do, and it would be a beautiful little place to put a couple of picnic tables, little pocket park, personal, and right in our downtown where things are starting to develop. [01:15:00] So if I had a choice, number three is a no-brainer. [01:15:04] But one and two, I wouldn't even go near. [01:15:07] Thank you, John. [01:15:16] Good evening, council members, mayor, and city manager. [01:15:19] How are you all doing? [01:15:20] I get to see this activity behind the building a lot. [01:15:24] And I love the concept that you've [01:15:25] come up with of potentially using three as a kayak lot. [01:15:30] Because it is different. [01:15:31] A boat and a kayak are two totally different launches. [01:15:33] And I'm constantly seeing people with kayaks and a boat [01:15:36] pulling in. [01:15:37] And that actually would work out very, very well for that. [01:15:39] So that's something that I think you're really [01:15:42] right on target for that. [01:15:44] The parking would not need trailer parking, necessarily. [01:15:47] So the smaller lot may help you there. [01:15:49] And you are correct. [01:15:51] I believe Councilman Altman was correct. [01:15:54] The busiest times are scalloping season. [01:15:57] We couldn't even park at the chamber. [01:15:58] Literally, every parking spot was there [01:16:00] if you didn't get there early. [01:16:02] That was the only time it was full. [01:16:03] And right when COVID hit and the shutdown came, [01:16:06] we saw, obviously, everybody going out and boating. [01:16:09] Those are the two busiest times we've had. [01:16:11] And the weekend is obviously busier than the weekday. [01:16:13] So you all are spot on in your comments from someone who [01:16:16] actually sees out his window the activity going on back there. [01:16:20] And the concept of getting the kayakers, I think, [01:16:22] and paddle boarders into a safer area [01:16:24] might be a big win-win for everybody. [01:16:26] And therefore, they don't get in the way of the boaters [01:16:28] and vice versa. [01:16:29] So I think that might be a good alternative for three. [01:16:32] Because at first, I was even hesitant myself [01:16:34] if it was a value. [01:16:35] But I think in the long run, it seems to be reasonably priced [01:16:37] and could be a great asset to the city. [01:16:39] Thank you very much. [01:16:40] Thank you. [01:16:41] Anyone else? [01:16:41] Can I take this off? [01:16:42] Thank you. [01:16:57] My name is Fred Sorenson. [01:16:59] My address is 4003 Rudder Way in New Port Richey. [01:17:04] And I am the guilty party that started some of this, [01:17:11] or came in the middle of it, actually. [01:17:13] I think Ms. Mayans has done a reasonably good job [01:17:17] of describing the events. [01:17:21] I'm very hard of hearing, so I'm sorry I didn't hear all of it. [01:17:25] But I think she did a fairly good job [01:17:27] of talking about the history of how we got here. [01:17:31] And I think it might have been, well, [01:17:35] some meeting that I was attending, [01:17:37] your honor, I think you talked about the congestion [01:17:42] and some of the issues at the marina, the boat launch. [01:17:47] And I agreed with you. [01:17:49] It's a real problem. [01:17:52] And I see one of the things that you've done [01:17:54] is added signs that say no parking here, whatever. [01:17:59] Congratulations. [01:18:02] I had made a commitment at a meeting with Charles and Debbie [01:18:06] and I said that if we can exit this property with our costs, [01:18:15] not trying to put anything over on anybody, [01:18:18] we would be willing to sell it to the city. [01:18:21] Because when we bought it, I wasn't [01:18:24] aware of the history behind it. [01:18:27] And it's a beautiful piece of property. [01:18:30] And it would be nice to retain it for everyone's use. [01:18:37] And I have lived up to that commitment. [01:18:40] We have had a couple of very interested people [01:18:44] that have expressed an interest for significantly more money [01:18:49] than what we're talking about offering it to the city for. [01:18:53] I want you to just be aware of that, [01:18:55] that they are real people. [01:18:56] And we have, so far, rejected those in hopes [01:19:02] that maybe everybody could share this in some fashion. [01:19:06] So that's all. [01:19:08] Thank you. [01:19:08] Thank you. [01:19:09] Anyone else? [01:19:12] Seeing none, we'll bring back any final comments. [01:19:15] Anyone? [01:19:17] I'd like to take the direction the city manager suggested [01:19:20] and ask if we could hold a CRA meeting. [01:19:23] Because this obviously doesn't fit into our general fund [01:19:28] budget. [01:19:29] And I would love to see us take advantage moving forward. [01:19:35] I know there was a realtor who sent an email to me. [01:19:38] I forwarded it on to Judy, just with respect [01:19:42] to current values and the situation on the river. [01:19:46] Perhaps if we, I don't know how long it is, [01:19:51] or if you could possibly have it read into the record. [01:19:54] But one of our local realtors had intended to be here. [01:19:57] And then she called me and said she had a cold [01:20:02] or wasn't feeling well, and could she [01:20:05] put something in writing. [01:20:06] So we can either just have it into the record, [01:20:09] and maybe it would be useful to discuss at the CRA meeting [01:20:13] if we could get agreement to hold a meeting [01:20:15] and let that body determine what it would do with its budget, [01:20:20] whether it wants to proceed. [01:20:22] I don't know if we'd be able to. [01:20:23] Let's get the opinion of the attorney. [01:20:26] Should this move to the CRA? [01:20:29] Well, ultimately, if decisions are going to be made [01:20:31] and you're going to use CRA funds, [01:20:32] it will have to be reviewed by the CRA. [01:20:35] I think we're going to need to have those estimates. [01:20:40] Go ahead, set it up then. [01:20:41] Before we do that, but yeah. [01:20:44] Anything else? [01:20:47] OK.

   This text was generated automatically from the meeting video. It is not a verbatim or official record. For exact wording, consult the video or the city clerk.

4. 4Communications▶ 1:20:49
5. 5Adjournment▶ 1:20:52