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   Review of Library Needs Assessment and Space Planning Study: Findings and Recommendations Report

   discussed

   Andy Dugan of Williams Architects presented findings and recommendations from a six-month library needs assessment and space planning study, including space utilization data, community survey results (115 responses), and preliminary design concepts with cost estimates. The presentation covered recommended interior renovations, site improvements, and reconfigurations to add small/medium program spaces, a dedicated youth program room, quiet study rooms, and improved children's areas. The item was a work session discussion with no formal vote taken.

   📍Main Street🏢SurveyMonkey🏢Williams Architects👤Andy Dugan👤Debbie Manz#Avery Room#International Room#Library Advisory Board#Library Needs Assessment and Space Planning Study#Tasty Tuesdays#community forums (May 2018)#community survey (July-August 2018)#early literacy area#maker space

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   [00:00:25] Ms. Manz. [00:00:26] Thank you, Mr. Mayor. [00:00:27] I don't know if formal introductions were made before I entered the room, but we have [00:00:33] Mr. Andy Dugan with us from Williams Architects. [00:00:37] We have been working with him and members of his staff for a six-month period of time, [00:00:44] just over six months now, to determine the future plans for our public library facility. [00:00:57] The reason that we hired them was to conduct a needs assessment and a space planning study. [00:01:05] We thought that it was very important to determine the building condition, its code compliance, [00:01:15] and an operational review of what happened there before we could determine if an addition [00:01:22] were necessary, and if so, what it would look like. [00:01:28] Those factors were taken into consideration with deference to National Trends in Library [00:01:34] Service, as well as a good number of interviews and participation by stakeholders with the [00:01:45] library. [00:01:47] The first phase of this did result in a recommendation for you to take a look at, if we determine [00:01:59] that it's appropriate for a project to go forward. [00:02:04] I'm going to turn it over to Andy to talk about where we've been through the process [00:02:10] and what his firm's recommendation is. [00:02:14] Thank you, and good evening, everybody. [00:02:18] Good afternoon, I should say. [00:02:19] Once again, I'm Andy Dogan from Williams Architects. [00:02:21] I'm our firm's director of library design and planning. [00:02:26] It's been our pleasure to work with the library, with the city, and all of you throughout this [00:02:30] process in really taking a good, objective look at how this library is functioning operationally, [00:02:38] but also taking a look at the physical plant, determining what's really objectively going [00:02:43] on there, and then really just having a lot of discussions with groups from inside the [00:02:50] city, inside the library, with members of the public, and really just getting as many [00:02:55] different points of data from inside and outside the community together with National Trends [00:03:02] in Library Design and Planning to put together a series of recommendations. [00:03:07] As the city manager mentioned, I was before the council at the end of June this year with [00:03:13] some of the preliminary findings of our study, answered some questions at this point. [00:03:18] So what we wanted to do tonight is go through the rest of the story, so to speak, what we've [00:03:23] learned since then, show you some initial concepts and some preliminary costs, a timeline [00:03:30] for a potential project should something move forward, and most importantly, to answer any [00:03:35] questions and comments you may have. [00:03:38] We have completed a report outlining all of our findings and recommendations for the project, [00:03:45] which I believe was in your packets for tonight. [00:03:47] So what we've done for this evening is put together just a very brief presentation of [00:03:54] some of the highlights of that. [00:03:55] And so the first four things, or the first four bullets on this initial slide are the [00:04:01] parts of this study process that we've already completed. [00:04:05] As the city manager mentioned, the condition assessment and an accessibility code assessment [00:04:10] of the existing building. [00:04:12] Really taking a good hard look at how the building is used, interviewing staff, interviewing [00:04:17] members of the public to see how the library operates, and taking a look at how the library [00:04:24] operates combined with our understanding and knowledge of best practices on a national [00:04:31] level. [00:04:32] We conducted two community forums at the end of May of this year, where we got a lot of [00:04:36] really great feedback from members of the community, and also conducted focus groups [00:04:42] with several stakeholders. [00:04:46] Current and past city leadership, the library advisory board, groups of parents, other library [00:04:51] users throughout the community. [00:04:53] So we presented our recommendations, or our preliminary recommendations that came out [00:04:58] of that process when we were here in June. [00:05:01] And tonight's really about the rest of the story. [00:05:05] One of the things that's really important for us to do when we make recommendations [00:05:08] is not just to tell you what our opinion is, but really make sure that what we are recommending [00:05:14] is founded in some actual data about how the library is being used. [00:05:18] So we've taken a really, really intense look at how the library is being utilized and have [00:05:26] actual data taken over two separate one-week periods. [00:05:31] So we know how the library is being used. [00:05:33] We know what patterns of usage there are. [00:05:36] We've actually also found a few places where we think that the spaces do adequately serve [00:05:41] the needs. [00:05:42] So this isn't all about saying we need more, we need more. [00:05:46] There are spaces that may need cosmetic upgrades, may need technological upgrades, but are really [00:05:52] doing their jobs in terms of amount of space. [00:05:56] We've conducted a pretty comprehensive community survey during the months of July and August. [00:06:01] We had 115 responses to that, which told us how people are using the library, what features [00:06:07] they are looking to see in a library, and just gave them some opportunity for additional [00:06:11] commentary. [00:06:12] So we took that space utilization information in the community survey results that we got, [00:06:20] looked at the recommendations we made before, just to make sure those were still valid, [00:06:26] and we'll be sharing those final recommendations with you tonight, along with some concepts [00:06:31] of what these recommendations mean and what the spaces could be. [00:06:35] Along with that, one of the natural questions is, what do you see this costing? [00:06:39] How long does it take? [00:06:41] So we want to make sure we're addressing that, and of course, any other questions you may [00:06:45] have. [00:06:48] Just diving into that, as I mentioned, with regard to space utilization, our firm has [00:06:53] a process by which we assist staff in measuring how the building is used for every half hour [00:07:00] it is open for any given week. [00:07:02] And we like to do this at two separate times, because libraries usually have different utilization [00:07:07] during summer months, as opposed to when children are in school. [00:07:12] So we did a space utilization review for one week in June and another towards the end of [00:07:17] August when school was in session. [00:07:20] And a few things that we found, one of the first things we found is that the main meeting [00:07:25] room is utilized about 60% of the time. [00:07:28] That's good utilization, but it's not so high that it's telling us you really need more, [00:07:34] a bigger meeting space, or you need more large meeting space. [00:07:39] I think what we found is that, and it's consistent with what we're finding all over the country, [00:07:44] it's the smaller spaces, study rooms, the Avery room, which is the smaller meeting room [00:07:49] on the second floor, and the quiet room. [00:07:53] Those are the spaces that are really seeing the most demand in libraries throughout the [00:07:59] country, and what are always constantly being utilized and programmed, and what we're finding [00:08:06] is that those spaces here are utilized more than 70% of the time the library is open. [00:08:12] We certainly see high demand for the public computers and seating at peak times of usage. [00:08:18] It was also interesting to see what the busiest days for library use are. [00:08:23] There are Mondays, Tuesdays, and Saturdays. [00:08:26] Saturdays aren't a surprise because of the weekend, Mondays, well, the library is closed [00:08:30] on Sunday, people want to get in, and then Tuesday is interesting because it's not a [00:08:36] day that we usually see real high library utilization, but it makes total sense because [00:08:41] of what's going on there outside the library and city hall with Tasty Tuesdays. [00:08:46] Community events really can drive library usage. [00:08:50] And then we also... [00:08:51] Yeah? [00:08:52] How long will we be open on Saturdays? [00:08:55] Well, we've been open, but we've extended the hours in mid-October of last year. [00:09:06] We extended the hours by six hours every week. [00:09:10] What are those? [00:09:11] From two to five o'clock. [00:09:13] We had been closed at two o'clock, and so now we're open... [00:09:17] How many hours? [00:09:18] We went from four to eight, or... [00:09:22] On Saturdays, we went from 10 to two to 10 to five, so we added three more hours. [00:09:29] We went from four to seven. [00:09:32] Okay. [00:09:33] Okay. [00:09:34] All right. [00:09:35] Great question. [00:09:36] We're seeing, during times of peak demand, that there is need for more computer space. [00:09:44] There is need for more seating. [00:09:46] And there is need for what I would call small to medium-sized group and program spaces, [00:09:54] so spaces anywhere from being able to have a small study group or a one-on-one tutoring [00:10:00] session of two to three people to a smaller program of about 10 to 15. [00:10:07] Those are really the spaces and the kinds of things that actual utilization figures [00:10:13] are proving out that we can use more of. [00:10:18] One thing that we always find as we're looking at how existing spaces are used is that the [00:10:22] more flexible those spaces are, the better they are utilized. [00:10:27] Those smaller spaces within the library that have really flexible furniture and can get [00:10:32] reconfigured, tend to see better utilization, so that's a clue for us. [00:10:37] If a space is more flexible, it can be utilized better. [00:10:40] If a space doesn't have good utilization, make it more flexible and you can get better [00:10:45] utilization. [00:10:48] Just to touch on some of the highlights from the community survey that we conducted. [00:10:52] As I mentioned, we did get 115 responses. [00:10:55] The survey was conducted over the web via SurveyMonkey. [00:10:58] There were links on the city and library's websites, as well as through the library's [00:11:02] some social media outlets, as well as print surveys in the library. [00:11:08] Some of the things we wanted to find in addition to what people are interested in, in seeing [00:11:12] in a library, is just how often people are coming to see the library. [00:11:17] We can get door counts from any given library to know how many people are coming in, but [00:11:22] we don't know if those are unique people. [00:11:24] We don't know how often people are coming to the library. [00:11:28] From this sample, we did learn that 60% of the people who responded are coming to the [00:11:34] library at least once a week or more, and 14% of the people who responded use the library [00:11:41] every day. [00:11:43] Compared to what we see in other communities, those are very high utilization numbers, which [00:11:48] is telling us that this is a very well-loved library that people care about and are really [00:11:53] using. [00:11:56] That was really, really positive data. [00:11:59] The other thing we did, we asked about 24 potential features, what people were interested [00:12:03] in seeing. [00:12:07] Some of the, I would say, the top eight answers, if this were Family Feud, the top eight answers [00:12:11] on the board were a dedicated program room for children's programming that's unique, [00:12:18] of the right size, of the right furniture and finish for children's programs. [00:12:22] Right now, all of those programs occur within the large and main meeting room that's shared [00:12:27] with other library programs. [00:12:31] A flexible space that can be used, the term in the library world is maker space, but what [00:12:37] that really is is a flexible space that can be used for crafting, for computer classes, [00:12:44] for smaller instructional programs within the library was very desirable. [00:12:52] More lounge seating throughout the building, so just comfortable seating that people feel [00:12:57] comfortable sitting down at for a while, but is still durable and easily cleanable, because [00:13:04] it is a public building, was very attractive. [00:13:09] An area where it's okay to have food and drinks. [00:13:12] We call this, one term for this is the marketplace in a library, where you've got the right flooring, [00:13:18] the right tables and chairs, so that it's okay for people to have a cup of coffee. [00:13:23] Maybe you even have a vending machine or a Keurig with coffee sold for 50 cents in a [00:13:30] K-cup or something like that. [00:13:32] Just that space where it's okay to have a drink, it's okay to be social and you don't [00:13:36] have to be quiet. [00:13:40] Computers, not just for the public, but specifically for parents and children to use together away [00:13:47] from the main public computers. [00:13:49] This scored very highly and does tend to score very highly. [00:13:52] So it's having them in the right place, but also with the right furniture where a parent [00:13:57] and child are comfortable using the computers together. [00:14:02] A new quiet reading room on the lower level, also rated very highly. [00:14:07] When we started this study back in late February, the library didn't actually have a quiet reading [00:14:12] room. [00:14:13] It's the international room, which the library's converted to a quiet space, but it is on the [00:14:17] upper level. [00:14:18] So having something that is easier to get to, rated very highly as something people [00:14:28] either agreed with or strongly agreed with. [00:14:31] More quiet study rooms. [00:14:33] The library currently has one room that has a four-person table, I believe, Andy, that [00:14:39] groups after school or tutors can use. [00:14:43] And where we see that everywhere, it's always one of the top ten features people are looking [00:14:48] for. [00:14:49] And then just a larger children's department in general, but specifically what we call [00:14:53] an early literacy area, a place where it's okay for kids to play and for parents to read [00:14:59] to children. [00:15:00] and it's just a little bit more active and lively. [00:15:03] So these eight features were deemed, [00:15:08] I would say, desirable. [00:15:10] When we asked if people strongly agreed [00:15:12] or agreed that they should be included, [00:15:14] that's what these percentages represent. [00:15:16] Can we discuss some of this as we go through [00:15:19] instead of waiting to the end and try to go back? [00:15:21] Right. [00:15:22] Maybe the two of you can work on this, Annie times two. [00:15:26] When you say children, are we talking about, [00:15:29] I mean, I look at, there's probably three different [00:15:31] age groups when we talk about children. [00:15:33] So that's why I want to divide this as children programs, [00:15:36] you know, parent-children thing, [00:15:38] larger children and literacy. [00:15:40] You know, I mean, do we have ages here [00:15:42] where we're talking about these types of categories? [00:15:45] I can start off with that. [00:15:47] With parent-child computers, that really goes from [00:15:52] as soon as a child understands what's happening on screen [00:15:57] all the way up to, which is about six months. [00:16:00] I see at the ball field and they're all [00:16:01] on their parents' phone under a year. [00:16:04] Yeah, to about 10 or 11 where they're really [00:16:06] starting to become more independent [00:16:08] and want to be off on their own. [00:16:09] So for that, I would say it really is all ages of children. [00:16:15] With early literacy, that's really more, I would say, [00:16:17] from two to about six or seven in most libraries. [00:16:24] I don't know if Andy, you would, [00:16:26] if that works a little differently for you here. [00:16:28] But that's the main age group we see [00:16:30] for that kind of feature or that kind of space. [00:16:36] Are you wondering about the teen section? [00:16:38] No, not necessarily. [00:16:39] I mean, children, you know, I mean, [00:16:40] I just said in my category, there'd be like three. [00:16:43] They're like preschool, early school, [00:16:46] and then, you know, maybe through fifth or sixth grade, [00:16:48] you know, some, you know, three different categories, [00:16:50] you know, and when I say children, [00:16:52] I look at that in three different categories. [00:16:54] That's why I'm asking. [00:16:56] I think that's a good question, [00:16:57] and one of the things, one of our recommendations [00:17:01] is to develop a larger children's area [00:17:05] that has dedicated zones for different children's areas. [00:17:10] Right now, what it really is is a series of rooms. [00:17:13] There's one room that is kind of the main room, [00:17:15] and then there's another room off of that room, [00:17:18] which I would say is the younger children's area. [00:17:21] So we want to have a space that's open and flexible enough [00:17:25] to have different ages, but flexibility is really key. [00:17:29] So as the demographics of the community change, [00:17:32] if you find that you have, for some reason, [00:17:35] I'm just theoretically talking, [00:17:37] a large influx of really young children, [00:17:39] you've got the flexibility to be able to do that. [00:17:40] Wait, wait, in the 30 years that I've been here, [00:17:42] the median age has dropped from 55 to 46, so. [00:17:49] It's all about flexibility, so if something does happen, [00:17:51] you've got the ability to respond to it. [00:17:56] So, good background information that I think really helped [00:18:02] validate some of our initial recommendations. [00:18:05] So, just to recap those very quickly, [00:18:08] because they form the basis for our design recommendations. [00:18:11] There are items on the site, the city and library sites, [00:18:17] that really have outlived their useful life. [00:18:20] The city is already taking steps to replace [00:18:24] and upgrade some of those, such as the sign up front. [00:18:27] Other things we're talking about here [00:18:29] would be upgrading other signage, [00:18:32] repairing and restoring the cap on the seat wall [00:18:34] off of Main Street, that really is just [00:18:38] beyond its service life right now. [00:18:40] And then looking at upgrading some of that public area [00:18:44] between the city hall and the library, [00:18:47] with some appropriate furniture for public use [00:18:49] and the kind of use that is appropriate for, [00:18:54] excuse me, that space. [00:18:55] And then in terms of interior renovations, [00:18:58] certainly we want to address just the finishes of the space. [00:19:04] There's a lot of original carpeting [00:19:06] and a lot of floor finishes and wall finishes [00:19:09] that have outlived their useful lives. [00:19:11] The renovation is almost at 30 years right now, [00:19:15] so that's about the life cycle of a lot of those things [00:19:18] within the building. [00:19:19] Certainly want to upgrade technology and power [00:19:23] and lighting infrastructure. [00:19:25] There's a lot of T8 fluorescent lighting in that facility [00:19:28] that have converted to LEDs, [00:19:30] going to not only drastically improve [00:19:33] the quality of lighting, [00:19:34] but really lower the cost of operation [00:19:36] in terms of electrical consumption. [00:19:40] The service desk is very large in the existing library, [00:19:43] as you've all seen, which consumes space [00:19:46] that could be used for some other things. [00:19:48] And we think that by right sizing that desk [00:19:51] and right sizing some of the other staff areas [00:19:54] that are a little larger than needed, [00:19:55] we're able to accomplish a lot of these things [00:19:57] we're talking about. [00:19:59] But addressing that large desk with smaller desks [00:20:03] that do the job just as well, if not better, [00:20:06] will recapture space for other things [00:20:08] and also help to improve sight lines throughout the building [00:20:11] which is one of the things that staff has told us [00:20:13] is really problematic with the current configuration. [00:20:17] Right now the library has an issue [00:20:19] with sound transmission between the floors. [00:20:22] The stair in the center of the building [00:20:23] works very well in terms of its location, [00:20:26] but it being in just a large open tunnel [00:20:29] with having a big hallway off the second floor [00:20:32] with no acoustic treatment whatsoever [00:20:35] really causes sound transmission problems on both floors. [00:20:39] So we'd want to look at addressing that. [00:20:41] Spaces for groups and programs, [00:20:43] and more specifically those smaller spaces [00:20:47] like a small program room on the first floor [00:20:50] for 10, 15, maybe 20 people max. [00:20:54] That kind of space would be very useful [00:20:56] for a lot of the library's programming [00:20:57] and particularly for people who are coming to the library, [00:21:01] want to do other things while they're at the library [00:21:04] and are looking to have a convenient space [00:21:06] while they're there. [00:21:08] A dedicated youth program room [00:21:10] will take pressure off of other spaces [00:21:12] and be something that can just be set up very well [00:21:15] for children's programming of all ages. [00:21:19] It could house an infant, parent-child story time [00:21:24] at one time, have the storage and the outfitting [00:21:27] to have a program for older children [00:21:31] a few hours later when school is out. [00:21:34] Are you thinking in terms of to get the stuff downstairs, [00:21:38] moving some of the stacks upstairs? [00:21:41] We don't believe that we'll need [00:21:42] to move any of the stacks upstairs. [00:21:45] The library's been reducing its collections [00:21:47] in accordance with demand. [00:21:48] They're taking a look at what is circulating and what's not. [00:21:51] And based on what they've already done, [00:21:53] we believe they'll be able to consolidate [00:21:55] some of the shelving that they already have [00:21:57] into a smaller area which will help [00:21:59] make some of these things possible. [00:22:02] Great question. [00:22:04] And then that really speaks to the next point here [00:22:06] which is just really better space utilization [00:22:09] throughout the building but specifically [00:22:12] on the second floor. [00:22:14] This is actually a great segue [00:22:16] into just some of the diagramming that we did. [00:22:19] So to take you through a little bit of the process [00:22:21] that led to these recommendations [00:22:24] and what this could actually be, [00:22:26] we like to just start with these basic floor plan diagrams [00:22:29] of how the spaces are used. [00:22:31] So just different colors for different kinds of spaces, [00:22:34] using red for service points, [00:22:37] and different colors for, for example, [00:22:39] adult services and staff. [00:22:40] So we did that for the first floor. [00:22:42] So you can see just by looking at this, [00:22:44] it doesn't take a library expert to say [00:22:48] that really seems like a lot of desk for this size of area. [00:22:53] Likewise on the second floor, [00:22:54] if we just diagram that space out, [00:22:57] orange space is staff space. [00:22:59] It's kind of washed out here, [00:23:01] but it's a very light yellow for circulation space. [00:23:05] There's a lot of space on that upper level [00:23:07] that's really taken up by things [00:23:10] that really the public can't directly use. [00:23:14] So we like to start with that point of understanding [00:23:18] as we look at different options. [00:23:19] So we continue in this vein, [00:23:21] just looking at a lot of different options [00:23:23] for how spaces can be organized. [00:23:26] And we looked at a whole bunch of different things. [00:23:28] We looked at, do we look at moving children's [00:23:34] to the lower level and an adult upstairs? [00:23:37] Some libraries are organized that way. [00:23:40] Here we don't think that makes sense [00:23:41] just because of the demographic makeup [00:23:43] of who uses the library. [00:23:45] Looking at the demographic makeup of the community, [00:23:48] I think you'd have a lot of people upset [00:23:50] who are currently used to being on the first floor [00:23:52] if they had to constantly go upstairs. [00:23:55] So we looked at that just to see if it made sense [00:23:57] and it really didn't. [00:23:59] We also looked at whether it made any sense [00:24:01] to move that stair out of its current location. [00:24:03] It is right in the middle of the building. [00:24:05] We thought, can we put that somewhere else? [00:24:07] Does that free up space for other things? [00:24:10] And as we looked at a number of different things, [00:24:13] or different options, we really felt that it didn't. [00:24:16] We felt that it is in the right location, [00:24:18] but maybe what we need to do is treat that stair differently [00:24:22] so that the acoustic problems that are there now [00:24:24] are no longer problems. [00:24:25] And then maybe recapture some of that open area [00:24:28] in that big stairwell so we can use it on both floors. [00:24:34] So that open area we're talking about, [00:24:36] I guess I can point to both of these. [00:24:37] Sorry, Andy, is right there. [00:24:40] So that space open to both levels, [00:24:42] it's really causing a lot of that sound transmission [00:24:45] between two levels and we see that can potentially [00:24:48] be recaptured by infilling it on the second floor [00:24:52] and used for other things. [00:24:55] So as we looked at those diagrams and arrived [00:24:58] at what we thought was a potential solution that made sense, [00:25:04] comparing between new and existing, [00:25:06] we're keeping the entrances where they are, [00:25:09] we're keeping the restrooms where they are. [00:25:11] We'd look at upgrading those restrooms [00:25:13] just to deal with condition issues [00:25:15] and some ADA compliance issues. [00:25:18] But keeping those places that are really heavy [00:25:22] infrastructure and that would be really expensive to move [00:25:26] in the places where they are. [00:25:27] We don't think there's a problem with where they're located. [00:25:31] They can be upgraded, which helps us focus [00:25:35] a wise expenditure in other areas. [00:25:38] So rather than looking at larger desks, [00:25:42] a single large desk as you currently have, [00:25:44] looking at smaller, more flexible desks [00:25:47] that are easier for staff to move in and out [00:25:50] and help library members. [00:25:53] The space where we currently have computers, [00:25:55] we would reimagine as what we're calling that marketplace. [00:26:00] So it's a space where it's okay to be social. [00:26:02] You can look at the possibility of having some vending. [00:26:06] You could have your new materials. [00:26:08] This is the spot in the library where it's okay [00:26:11] for groups to get together. [00:26:12] It's okay for people to have conversations. [00:26:17] One of the things that became very apparent to us [00:26:20] with speaking with staff is that the public computers [00:26:24] are very well used. [00:26:25] Our space utilization exercise really proved that out. [00:26:30] But that library members were having trouble getting help [00:26:34] and library staff were having trouble helping members [00:26:37] just because of the configuration of the desk. [00:26:40] They'd have to go around 25 plus feet of desk, [00:26:44] go back to help people at their computers [00:26:46] and then go back while other people were waiting for help. [00:26:49] So really thinking of those desks as more flexible [00:26:52] and smaller will help people get help faster [00:26:58] and help staff be more productive. [00:27:00] How many computers do we have now? [00:27:03] On the floor, we've got 22 public access computers. [00:27:07] That's just showing 16 there. [00:27:10] There is space for additional computers. [00:27:14] We're trying to show a fairly generous layout right now. [00:27:18] This plan would also anticipate that we would introduce [00:27:22] computers in the teen area. [00:27:23] You might also have a couple computers [00:27:25] in the marketplace area as well. [00:27:27] I'm saying there's a wait line for the computers [00:27:29] and that's less than what we have now. [00:27:31] I'm also including, I'm sorry, [00:27:34] there's some computers in the computer lab as well, [00:27:38] which I'm including in several upstairs [00:27:40] as well as our catalog stations, [00:27:43] which we retain for catalog usage. [00:27:48] So does this, then my question is, [00:27:51] is this an increase to the public for computers? [00:27:56] No, I think it would be the same number [00:27:58] of computers right now. [00:28:00] And we would just relocate some of the computers [00:28:03] that we now have so that the public can use more computers. [00:28:10] Right now, some of our computers are tied [00:28:12] to specific purposes like the catalog. [00:28:16] And moving forward with this new ILS system, [00:28:20] which is hosted in the cloud, [00:28:22] we'll be able to use iPads. [00:28:25] And we've got a plan to have those on certain shelving units [00:28:32] to make that more accessible. [00:28:34] And then that'll free up some of our large computers [00:28:38] so that the public can access them. [00:28:40] So the same number, but used differently. [00:28:43] Is this also, over right here, [00:28:45] is this cutting the stairwell space in half? [00:28:48] The stair actually doesn't change. [00:28:50] What it does is takes the open space [00:28:53] that's currently behind the stair and enclose it on, [00:28:58] first of all, enclose it on the first level [00:29:00] to create a new quiet reading room on the first floor. [00:29:02] That was one of the features that rated very highly. [00:29:05] Go back one or two spots. [00:29:09] Say that, oh, say open to public, okay. [00:29:11] I thought that was all stairwell, that was my mistake. [00:29:13] The stair structure would actually stay exactly as it is. [00:29:17] There's nothing wrong with the stair. [00:29:19] And we think- [00:29:20] I saw the stairs, I didn't say open to public. [00:29:22] I've tried using that downstairs area [00:29:25] before just going over and reading the newspaper or whatever [00:29:29] and you're in the middle of this sound funnel [00:29:34] for lack of a better term. [00:29:36] Exactly. [00:29:37] It's a very noisy space because of everything [00:29:39] that's bouncing off the second floor. [00:29:42] So the thought, yes. [00:29:43] So the thought is to enclose that space, [00:29:46] actually build a floor structure over it, [00:29:48] which can be new space within the building [00:29:50] on the second floor, which will fundamentally change [00:29:53] the character of that space below [00:29:55] so that it can really be a quiet room. [00:29:58] So other. [00:30:00] features, we would be consolidating the collection into a smaller amount of shelving, which allows [00:30:06] for a new teen space on the lower level that is currently upstairs in libraries throughout [00:30:12] the country. We are seeing that, probably not surprisingly, the teens really want to [00:30:17] identify more with adults in terms of library use. So, that's something we heard pretty [00:30:22] strongly that was desirable here and desirable throughout the country in our work with other [00:30:29] libraries. [00:30:30] Control the desk, front desk, is that what control is? [00:30:34] Yes. So, we think of different control, we think of it as sight lines. [00:30:38] Is there multiple stations? Are you talking about there's multiple stations? [00:30:43] Multiple stations that are smaller and actually flexible rather than built in, so if something [00:30:47] needed to be moved, there'd be boxes in the floor for power and data and you'd be able [00:30:51] to just connect to it as needed. So, other parts of the plan that would be new would [00:30:58] be two new enclosed study rooms in the, let's see, that would be the southeast corner of [00:31:04] the building, because north is up here. Looking at new seating that could be, they're shown [00:31:11] in some of our renderings as sort of tables and chairs, but we really think of those more [00:31:16] as individual carrels where people would have more of a quiet opportunity. Libraries in [00:31:20] general are getting away from the big boxy study carrels and getting towards furniture [00:31:27] that has just a little bit of a privacy, so rather than a two foot big wood wall, maybe [00:31:32] about a foot or a foot and a half of a small divider, so it's easier to supervise that [00:31:36] space, but everybody still feels like they have their own space. [00:31:42] And then moving around, one idea that gained some traction as we started looking at it, [00:31:51] because we have such a need as we see it for smaller meeting spaces, what about the idea [00:31:57] of a really small expansion, almost as a deck off of that stormwater swale out there, that [00:32:05] could be a solarium or a reading room. It could host programs, it could host smaller [00:32:10] classes, it could just be another reading space off of that area. [00:32:15] So, on the second floor, this probably explains what's happening a little bit more clearly. [00:32:22] We have the stairway, but we enclose it and do some acoustical treatment within it to [00:32:27] cut down on noise. We also introduce a glass wall at the top of that stairway, so you still [00:32:32] enter at the top of the stair, but you've got a glass wall there to cut down on some [00:32:38] of the sound transmission from below. [00:32:41] Then we take that area that was previously open, infill that with new structure and create [00:32:45] a children's program room right next to the existing meeting room, and then a little alcove [00:32:51] to get into that. So, we've now got a series of spaces that are very, very flexible and [00:32:58] can accomplish a lot of different things. That children's program room would have a [00:33:05] sink at a child height for art programs and things of that nature, and just the right [00:33:10] furniture and flooring and decor for children's programming. [00:33:17] Having those kinds of spaces, I think, also takes pressure off of other spaces that aren't [00:33:21] used by children to make those more appropriate for adults. [00:33:26] The other big change up here, you noticed a couple slides ago, how the second floor [00:33:34] is currently organized with staff offices all the way along the north side of the building, [00:33:40] and then just a series of smaller spaces and a really wide corridor. We'd really like to [00:33:46] increase the flexibility of that by thinking about the space more flexibly and really opening [00:33:53] up that space for children's use and organizing the space as you come to the top of the stairs [00:33:58] where you can go right, continue to go to the meeting room, but be met by a staff person [00:34:04] right at the top of the stairs. So, good sight lines and good control, and just opening up [00:34:09] that children's area so that we're taking advantage of those windows, taking advantage [00:34:13] of that space on the second floor, making it as flexible as possible, and making it [00:34:18] as fun and imaginative as possible. [00:34:21] And then doing... [00:34:22] You're talking about a youth services area. What is that narrow area on the east side [00:34:26] of the staircase? What is that? [00:34:28] Right here? That would merely just be a corridor so we can access the children's program room. [00:34:37] We'll show some images here in a moment that I think will clarify some things as well. [00:34:41] In this redesign of moving the staff around, do we gain square footage on the second floor? [00:34:46] Just slightly. Just slightly, but I think what it addresses is giving staff accessible [00:34:54] spaces that they currently didn't have. Right now, the staff break room and the staff restroom [00:35:00] is not ADA compliant, and that would happen under this. So, it's about 30 more square [00:35:07] feet than staff currently have, but it, I think... [00:35:12] I'm looking the other way. [00:35:14] Yeah. [00:35:14] 30 feet going towards the public, not towards the staff. [00:35:19] What we do gain is all of this corridor space that was really currently not used for anything, [00:35:26] and that was about 600 square feet plus the open area. So, all of this area here is now [00:35:34] recaptured for the public. All of that open area, which was about 300 square feet in that [00:35:40] stair, we're infilling to create more public space. So, it is definitely a net gain of [00:35:46] public space within the existing footprint. [00:35:51] So, we wanted to put together a series of images that tell the story a lot better than [00:35:58] any planned drawing can, just to show some very preliminary concepts for what this all [00:36:02] means. So, we started with some exterior images just to show how we can start to get some [00:36:09] better utilization of the exterior space outside. So, this is a view... [00:36:14] Where are you from? [00:36:16] Where am I from? The Chicago area. [00:36:19] This is in July and August in Florida. [00:36:25] That's non-habitable for that matter, September this year. Memorial day through October. [00:36:31] Understood. So, for several months of the year you'd have some good outdoor space. Up [00:36:38] by me, we've got about six months of the year we really can't be outside either. So, they're [00:36:42] just different months. My folks are from Markle Island, so very well aware of the climate. [00:36:50] So, just some ability to better use that space with the potential for some different seating [00:36:55] and some landscape improvements. [00:36:58] Another view from the front of the building off of Main Street, just showing how a rebuilt [00:37:05] seat wall, the new sign that I understand has already been ordered, and that solarium [00:37:11] space just off of the south side of the library. [00:37:16] That solarium space looks like it would be a fun place just to sit and read and watch. [00:37:23] With the trees that are existing there too, it would be shaded pretty much all the time. [00:37:28] It would be. [00:37:29] Even though it is the south side of the building. [00:37:31] Yeah, we're not anticipating doing anything with existing trees along Main Street. Maybe [00:37:37] just some landscape improvements, but we're not far enough along to know exactly what [00:37:43] that would entail. [00:37:44] So, then potentially some new signage at the corner of the building, at the southeast corner, [00:37:49] that could potentially even be illuminated at night, so at dusk, something that really [00:37:54] says, this is the library. [00:37:57] We've got some before and after pictures, or some renderings here that I think really [00:38:04] help tell the story. [00:38:05] So, where the entrance right now, you kind of see the desk to the side. It's a little [00:38:10] bit dark as you first come into the building. We're thinking about a concept that really [00:38:15] opens that up, brightens the space, that gives you an idea of what those smaller, more flexible [00:38:21] service points can do in terms of orienting somebody towards the entrance of the building, [00:38:26] so people come in and see a staff member right away. [00:38:32] The existing computer area, changing into that marketplace concept, using some acoustic [00:38:39] baffles, that's what's happening in the ceiling there along with the lighting to help cut [00:38:43] down some sound, and just making that a more flexible space with some display shelving, [00:38:49] some shelving for new materials, and potential vending machines and a little counter for [00:38:56] coffee back in the corner. [00:39:00] Current photo from the existing desk looking at the stairway. As that desk gets smaller [00:39:05] and we introduce computers, we open up the desk and we have a much better sight line [00:39:11] back to the rest of the adult area than currently exists. [00:39:16] Looking back towards the front door from where the computers are proposed to be, you can [00:39:24] see what that sight line would be. So, we think we're really opening up things, really [00:39:29] introducing some colors and finishes that are unique and appropriate to this community. [00:39:38] Do you have any expectancy of privacy when you're sitting there on a computer? [00:39:45] Well, you're in a public building. [00:39:47] I'm just saying from one, not boxed in, but just, you know. [00:39:54] I think that people do want privacy when they're using the computers, but there's also [00:39:59] expectation that you are in a public building, and so anything that you are working on should [00:40:08] be friendly to anyone walking into the building. [00:40:13] I'm not taking that direction. You could be working on a term. [00:40:18] I'm just asking if there's an expectancy of it somewhat. Not boxed in, but just, you know. [00:40:24] You're not boxed in standing, you don't know, you don't know. [00:40:28] You're not boxed in going to the urinal, but there is some, you know, small walls. [00:40:34] You can't get the screens on them where you can't see unless you're right in front of it. [00:40:40] The other thing that we've done in a number of libraries, too, rather than this kind of [00:40:45] arrangement, actually has worked very well, but there's also the possibility of really [00:40:50] just getting different tables that do have those foot-high dividers between each computer [00:40:55] if you'd like to get a little more personal space. [00:40:57] I'm just asking. I'm not allowed in a library, but I'm just asking. [00:41:01] I was going to mention on the other set of tables that Andy was probably getting ready to show you. [00:41:09] They do have those small screens, and they're not huge, but they do lend a little bit of privacy. [00:41:17] I think that's a detail of furniture. In further conversation, we want to have a couple computers [00:41:24] that give the idea of a little more personal space. [00:41:28] We can just address that with the kind of furniture that's selected. [00:41:30] That's what I'm asking. [00:41:33] Good question. [00:41:35] Another image back to the existing stacks in some of the seating area. [00:41:40] Looking at opening that up, as Andy mentioned, looking at some seating that has dividers in the tables, [00:41:49] but also potentially dividers between each seat to give that sense of privacy. [00:41:54] What these types of seating and these types of table arrangements do is really promote more quiet. [00:42:02] You're better able to zone the louder areas of the library from the quieter areas of the library. [00:42:09] Then the study rooms that we're talking about, really back there in the southeast corner of the building, [00:42:17] we like to make those as open as possible. [00:42:20] They're flexible spaces, and a lot of different things can happen in them, so they need to be well supervised. [00:42:25] Really think of those almost as little aquarium spaces, just not with water. [00:42:31] Some more before and potential after photos. [00:42:35] This is at the top of the stair, staring right into the Avery room, and what opening that space up would do [00:42:41] is put a service point right at the top of the stair, and really open up that space more so it's more flexible, [00:42:49] more fun, and more inviting for families and children from the community. [00:42:56] A view down that hallway right now just kind of gives you an idea of the amount of space that really, [00:43:03] although there's a couple chairs and some shelving, the space really just isn't well utilized right now, [00:43:10] so we think that at least recapturing some of it to be open and flexible space that's part of children's [00:43:17] and part of other things will help all of that space be better utilized and just brighter and more flexible. [00:43:25] It's hard to have a conversation about a vision for a project without talking about the price tag, [00:43:37] and one thing that I've learned over 20 years of presenting to public bodies is that the first number that's put out there [00:43:46] about a project is the one that everybody remembers and may as well be carved in stone, so we want to make sure it's accurate. [00:43:52] So what we've done is really looked at the types of construction that have to happen in terms of complexity. [00:44:00] Some spaces don't require much more than new lighting and ceiling and carpeting. [00:44:05] Others get more intense, so we've quantified that. [00:44:09] We've used local and national cost data to arrive at a cost per square foot to quantify the renovations that would be occurring here, [00:44:20] and these are comprehensive costs, so what I mean by that is that we've taken into account the costs of having a constructor run the project, [00:44:30] whether that's general contract or overhead and profit or a construction management firm, professional services, [00:44:36] so an architecture or engineering firm, contingencies both during the design process to account for changes and during construction [00:44:45] to account for potential unknowns or things that may become discovered. [00:44:49] And then one thing I'd like to emphasize is that we've also accounted for a year of inflation in these numbers, [00:44:55] assuming at this point that a project would potentially be completed. [00:45:00] constructed around this time next year, we've increased these numbers by a factor of 5% [00:45:08] to arrive at them. So total base construction for the project is about $1.57 million, as [00:45:18] we're currently seeing it. Again, that's an all-inclusive number. [00:45:23] Furniture, shelving, fixtures, and equipment. Most of the furniture in the library is original [00:45:28] and needs to be replaced. That may seem like a high number for furniture, but what we really [00:45:36] find is that furniture in the library undergoes the kind of use and abuse that almost nothing [00:45:45] else does. So it's important to buy the right kinds of furniture that's durable. And one [00:45:50] of the terms we've coined from working with a number of libraries is hoseable. If it's [00:45:55] not something you can take outside, pressure wash, let it dry, and bring it back in, it's [00:46:01] probably not appropriate for a building like this. [00:46:06] So with that, a total project budget of just over $1.8 million. We wanted to express that [00:46:13] solarium as a separate line item, just for some budget flexibility. I mean, everything [00:46:19] is flexible at this point, but just a total, with everything, of around, or just under [00:46:27] $2 million, as we're currently seeing it. So again, it's very early in the process, [00:46:32] but we want to make sure that we're correctly and conservatively representing this scope [00:46:37] of work to you. In terms of a potential schedule, from a point [00:46:45] that the council would give the go-ahead for the project, the process for engaging and [00:46:50] putting a firm under contract of about two months, a design phase, just to work out some [00:46:56] more details and validate what has already been done over the next two months, three [00:47:03] months for putting together construction and bidding documents, a couple months for bidding [00:47:08] the project, securing the permits, and bringing contracts to the council for approval, and [00:47:14] then a four to six month construction process. I say, I put some variance in there because [00:47:19] one of the things that would need to be determined is how this project would be phased. I think [00:47:26] it's fairly certain that the library would want to remain in operation while this happens, [00:47:32] so that's a discussion that would have to be had, is how this project would be phased, [00:47:38] and depending on how that works, it could be anywhere between four and six months. So [00:47:43] total project duration of 13 to 15 months from the time of approval to the time we would [00:47:49] be looking at a grand opening ceremony. [00:47:55] Given what we've spent on some previous construction projects, most notably over at the Recreation [00:48:04] Aquatic Center, that total project cost does not strike me as being particularly out of [00:48:11] reason. One of the things that does occur to me, and Councilman Altman had actually [00:48:20] alluded to this two meetings ago, I think, is we've got the old post office or business [00:48:30] incubator, which is currently available for lease, but is also currently empty, and if [00:48:38] we planned it right, we could probably move portions of the library operation into that [00:48:47] on a short-term basis while we were cutting things, particularly upstairs, because that's [00:48:54] going to be quite the mess in the library when we do it. [00:48:57] That is, that's definitely a possibility. It's one way to shorten the construction duration [00:49:03] and therefore reduce the construction cost. Of course, there's the cost of bringing people [00:49:09] and materials over there and working that all out. That is something that many libraries [00:49:14] choose to do if they're renovating. They look at what's available in town, and a temporary [00:49:21] facility sometimes makes sense and sometimes doesn't. [00:49:24] A large meeting room could be right here as much as this room. [00:49:28] And we've got the meeting rooms in the incubator, too, so there's ways of doing, I think, ways [00:49:35] of making it happen so we don't just trip on each other. [00:49:39] Those are outstanding library fines. Is it $1.9 million? [00:49:44] I don't know. Back to the drawing board. [00:49:49] Is that the end of your presentation? [00:49:52] We do have, we'd like to leave tonight. We want to have time for any additional questions, but... [00:49:58] Well, I haven't given you any questions yet, so... [00:50:03] We'd like to show you a virtual tour outside and inside the new building, and then certainly [00:50:11] take as much time as you need for questions. [00:50:32] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:51:02] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:51:32] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:52:02] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:52:32] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:52:38] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:52:41] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:52:45] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:52:48] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:52:53] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:52:57] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:53:01] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:53:07] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:53:11] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:53:16] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:53:22] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:53:29] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:53:35] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:53:41] This looks like it's a little jumpy. [00:53:47] With that, that concludes our presentation. [00:53:50] We really, first of all, I want to thank the city and the library for giving us this opportunity to study this with you. [00:53:57] It's been really, really rewarding to speak with everybody in this community to learn more about it [00:54:05] and to help develop a vision for the library moving forward. [00:54:10] So thank you all, and I certainly want to make sure I answer any questions you have. [00:54:14] Any questions? [00:54:17] Yeah, I know you mentioned early on that all the people that you've worked with, [00:54:23] I haven't really had any extended conversations with you other than that one visit that you were here, [00:54:31] and I just want to say from the outset that the presentation was very good, [00:54:39] and I think a lot of your ideas are good ideas. [00:54:45] Particularly the slide that you gave with the top eight family feud answers, [00:54:51] there were a few things in there that continued to cause me to think about the restricted space we have in the library, [00:54:59] the limited expansion of the footprint, and the $2 million price tag. [00:55:04] And I'm reminded of our early days in redevelopment here in the city where we had, [00:55:10] one year we had an expert in here who was, well, he wasn't here, but who spoke to the state group, [00:55:17] who was Edmund Bacon, who was the architect who redesigned a lot of Philadelphia's downtown. [00:55:25] And he was all about the pictures, the architectural outcome. [00:55:31] And then we had another guy named Fred Kent who came into our town as a project for public spaces, [00:55:38] and he had a completely opposite concept, which was really the impetus for me getting my wife to have a hot dog stand, [00:55:45] which was bring the business, get the customers, get the programming. [00:55:50] So all of what I've observed is you're looking at the spaces that you have on your campus to work from, [00:55:59] to try to fit as many of these different needs and wishes in. [00:56:04] I think when Chopra mentioned would there be any more computers or not, would there be any enhanced services available, [00:56:11] I think that was a good question because, you know, really it is what do the people want, [00:56:16] what are the trends turning to, and how can we get those programs in place. [00:56:24] So I'm trying to take this from a program standpoint and thinking. [00:56:28] So I'll just throw a few thoughts out, and I know this is like at the end of the line, last presentation, [00:56:34] but hopefully you'll bear with me just to get this stuff out. [00:56:42] The children's space, and my sense of the library is large groups of children come in, hard to keep them all quiet all the time. [00:56:54] Parties and meetings that I've been in upstairs, hard to keep that crowd quiet when you have a large crowd of people talking. [00:57:04] But I like your baffling and all those ideas. [00:57:07] And then you have the small study rooms, the trend towards the smaller rooms. [00:57:14] And, you know, I think that certainly the time is well past for renovations in the existing library. [00:57:23] I'm not so sure that we're ready to finalize an end result. [00:57:28] I mean, the picture you had did show the fire station in the background. [00:57:32] I don't know what's going to happen with the fire station. [00:57:35] Is it going to move across the street? [00:57:37] Is it going to relocate? [00:57:40] And so what would you do if you had a different canvas because you're restricted to what space that you're seeing? [00:57:47] But I keep going back to the second or the third most popular request, which was crafting or maker space. [00:57:55] And I've had a number of people who asked me why we couldn't have more of a place for people who wanted to work with their hands, not just in the book fashion. [00:58:07] And the tutoring and the small classrooms. [00:58:10] I mean, we've got so many empty spaces right now over at the other building. [00:58:17] So I don't know if it makes sense from a library standpoint. [00:58:20] I'm just putting it out there. [00:58:22] If, as example, all of this children's stuff was located over closer to the park in that building and that became the Annex Children's Library, would that make things easier to have adults in meetings? [00:58:37] Does your staff divide up that way? [00:58:40] So I'm sorry, but I am still feeling like there's more answer out there to get more programs out as quickly as we can. [00:58:51] So to me, I'd like to see these programs get going, not just build a new library space and then put these programs in. [00:58:59] And we have existing space. [00:59:01] So if it's simultaneous or if it's because it's nice to see something new and everybody wants to go in and see it, and it's nice to have that comfortable space inviting, I have a lot of respect for architects. [00:59:15] In many ways, I kind of wish that that was a route that I would have gone into after engineering, but taking how things work. [00:59:27] But from the details you've got, and we had also – we have all these different consultants coming in together. [00:59:35] We had the gentleman who looked at the town, and he made the comment, an important part of a downtown is a library. [00:59:42] And I don't know who asked him the question. [00:59:44] One of you all asked him the question, was our library close enough at this location? [00:59:49] And the answer was yes. [00:59:51] And then we're getting over to the hospital and we're going around to Central Avenue. [00:59:56] So our downtown is coming out this way. [01:00:00] But when you show those pictures of the folks that would be, you know, Tampa's [01:00:06] office workers milling around the nice little spot for socializing, and then I [01:00:16] see our current user group that we have here. They're not wearing coats and ties, [01:00:24] which is okay. But, you know, in my head it's like there's children and there's [01:00:33] adults and then there's meetings and private. And so if it's private to be [01:00:38] done, why does it have to be done in the public building in the same way we're [01:00:42] talking about the administrative offices and how much how much space do we need [01:00:46] for for all of that? Also the books. I mean, we have the Avery collection, which [01:00:54] is the first collection around, I think, that's in our county or on this side of [01:00:59] county. And just as a second side note, I don't know whether moving books [01:01:08] out, we eliminate them or give them away or donate them because they're not [01:01:14] moving or whether there's some benefit of the collection being held, some of [01:01:21] the collection being held off-site to another location like an annex. Or if [01:01:26] you go to the county for records and you're looking for something that's old, [01:01:30] they'll send you to the building in the back to find that someone else that's [01:01:35] running out. Those are just my thoughts from what what you've presented today [01:01:43] from the price tag. I think, you know, on the timing, yeah, I don't want to be holding [01:01:51] back some of the long-needed improvements that are in the library. [01:01:55] But I'm not so sure that, from my standpoint, I'm not sure, you know, how [01:02:04] we're going to finance this and, you know, and a number of public projects in [01:02:13] mind that are all important and we're going to have to sit down and [01:02:19] figure out how to make that work. I think, conceptually, if it meets our [01:02:25] approval, we tell the city manager, okay, tell us how we make this work. Well, [01:02:34] the hard thing for me, Mr. Mayor, is that when I speak, you know, to you all, that [01:02:42] until we actually make a motion and forward that, then we're all in [01:02:48] uncertainty as to what the direction is. So, you know, we'll have to, I'm guessing [01:02:53] that this isn't just today we have a work session, say, go make this work. [01:02:57] Because, you know, we've got to analyze our economics, get our financials in, look [01:03:03] at where we're at, figure out how to do it, and make sure that all of the [01:03:07] projects that need to be done have a way. And this is our first real chance to see [01:03:11] what what the thing might look like. But I still want to just throw in there that [01:03:16] I have not gotten any response to the concept of the library as being an [01:03:23] important part of our downtown, and the potential for us to use the post office [01:03:28] building, not just as a temporary place to locate, but as a place for us, like, [01:03:33] I've already had a number of people ask me if they could, they have seen or would [01:03:38] like to see a little workshop. Now, that's probably like carpentry and making [01:03:43] little things, and I know some of the senior centers have those where they [01:03:47] have big fans and they blow all the dust out and all that sort of thing. That [01:03:51] starts to go over to the rec center. And the crafting, the rec center has [01:03:56] the, they have what, the club that comes in and makes the quilts, and they have a [01:04:02] lot of events that are crafting and events. So, to me, library and recreation [01:04:07] are the two cultural outreaches. One may be a little more academic than the other, [01:04:11] although you have to be pretty smart to know all the rules in sports here, but [01:04:17] it almost seems like there's a joint potential for taking advantage. The [01:04:23] children go to the playground, they don't want to run out in the water, the little [01:04:27] schools, the elementary schools are over that way. It almost makes some sense to [01:04:31] migrate those children to a space that we could recreate for them with more [01:04:35] room to run around. I don't know where you're going to get parent rooms, quiet [01:04:39] rooms, reading rooms, separate rooms. You can add a few rooms, but I don't see that [01:04:45] it has a material difference to the services that we can provide. [01:04:49] Definitely food for thought. Mr. Murphy? [01:04:54] No, I like, I mean, I would say I like the more, the modern flair. I raise the [01:04:59] travel a lot. It almost looks like when you walk in the entrance, it's like going to a [01:05:02] Marriott or Ailton, right? Hotel, so it's just very, very modern. That looks very [01:05:06] nice. I would probably, you know, also unpack what Councilman Altman is saying is, you [01:05:13] know, we've got to make sure we have the proper space for the programs we want [01:05:18] and need and future expansion. Of course, we've got to look into that, and I'm sure [01:05:22] Andy and everyone else is looking forward into that, that direction to make [01:05:29] sure that happens. But I would really like the little cafe idea. I think that's [01:05:34] really good. That's something different that I seem to draw people in. I know a lot of [01:05:40] people probably wouldn't have went to some places, made it more appealing, like [01:05:44] the Books of Million and things like that. They have the coffee shop in there. [01:05:47] I don't mean, it drew me in there sometimes, so I think that's really good. [01:05:53] That's all I have. Yeah, it's interesting thoughts. The only other thing that [01:06:00] I would toss out, and it's part of this sort of larger conversation that we've [01:06:04] been having, is if that fire station gets relocated anywhere other than where [01:06:12] it is now, it has occurred to me for some time that with those big garage [01:06:20] doors and everything else, that would be a marvelous place for an industrial type [01:06:26] maker space to go in, because you could come in with some of the [01:06:32] heavier equipment, the really big 3D printers and the other stuff. [01:06:41] And that's wide open in there. And it's right there next to the [01:06:48] assisting library. You're going to print some electric cars, aren't you? Hey, you know, we'll do what we can do if we can get a big [01:06:54] enough printer. But seriously, that just strikes me as a [01:07:00] wonderful place for a maker space, once we've got the other. Well, it's a lot [01:07:08] closer to the library. It would make a lot more sense from a management standpoint, I'm [01:07:13] sure, than to have to take it over to the park or part of it. Well, the incubator at one [01:07:20] time was a children's youth annex for the Baptist Church, so we would be [01:07:25] basically coming full circle if we moved some of the children's services over [01:07:30] into there with the idea of having it conveniently located, not to the [01:07:37] library, but rather to Sims Park. So, maybe worth doing some [01:07:43] chewing on. Chopper, any other thoughts? I want to mix this together for a second. [01:07:51] There is Peace Hall. There's rooms that I quoted were used like 25% for the rec center. One room wasn't even used to a percentage that I could give you as a site. [01:08:08] Programming that I think that we could take, you know, existing buildings and [01:08:13] move, whether it's a library program, you think it's a library program, or a rec [01:08:18] program that can be utilized in Peace Hall, can be utilized in the rec center, and it can be [01:08:23] utilized in, you know, in City Hall, in this space right here, that are not [01:08:27] being used at this time. So, I think more of a mix and having more of an open [01:08:33] mind, not this is the library and this is the rec center and this is City Hall, but [01:08:36] this is all the same city, same family, you know, and utilized. I think, you know, [01:08:45] utilizing Peace Hall right next to the recs, right next to the splash pad and [01:08:51] the art and everything would tend to bring something. Maybe they have a few [01:08:56] boxes and the stuff comes out once a week and goes back into the boxes and

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3. 3Adjournment▶ 1:08:58