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   Annexation Study

   discussed

   PMG Associates presented an annexation feasibility and strategy study for the City of New Port Richey, recommending a four-phase annexation plan to eliminate enclaves, square off boundaries, and incorporate commercial properties along US 19. Council members, particularly Councilman Starkey, pushed back on why the Seaforest neighborhood west of US 19 was excluded (due to exceeding the 250-voter threshold that would trigger a referendum) and asked staff to look into subdividing portions of that area. The item was a presentation and discussion; no formal vote was taken.

   • direction:Council directed staff/consultant to look further into whether portions of Seaforest (e.g., north of Cross Bayou, or the gated condos near Green Key Road and Fjord) could be subdivided and included in annexation without triggering a referendum. (none)

   📍Cross Bayou📍Green Key Beach📍Green Key Road and Fjord📍Gulf Harbors📍Jobeth Drive📍Leisure Lane📍Seaforest📍Topsail Drive📍US 19📍Van Dorn📍Woodlands🏢PMG Associates Incorporated👤Phil Gonat👤Starkey#250 registered voter threshold (interlocal annexation)#Annexation Feasibility and Strategy Study#Chapter 171, Florida Statutes#Communities of Interest#Estate density zoning (one unit per acre)#Floor area ratio comparison (city vs. county)#Phase 1–4 annexation plan#ULI recommendations#Utility surcharge revenue loss

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   [00:00:21] Yes, sir, Mr. Mayor. [00:00:24] Chapter 171 of the Florida Statutes allows municipalities to annex contiguous and compact [00:00:32] properties that are in unincorporated territory and which are serviced by our, pardon me, [00:00:43] by city utilities. [00:00:46] The purpose of that is to provide for sensible boundaries and to avoid a duplication of services. [00:00:56] In certain occurrences, this can be accomplished through an interlocal agreement related to [00:01:03] boundaries. [00:01:05] In the case of New Port Richey, we have had an annexation feasibility and strategy study [00:01:13] conducted. [00:01:15] The purpose of the study was, first of all, to determine the most appropriate areas to [00:01:20] annex, and one of the ways that that was determined was, first of all, to even out our boundaries. [00:01:30] Secondly, to incorporate enclaves, which are parcels of property that are less than ten [00:01:38] acres in size and are bounded by the city on 19. [00:01:45] The third purpose was related to commercial properties that are in the county but exist [00:01:54] along US 19. [00:02:00] Once the areas were identified, the next part of the study was to determine revenues and [00:02:09] expenditures associated with the potential areas of annexation, and the areas of interest [00:02:17] are, I'm sorry, the areas of interest are actually referred to as community of interest. [00:02:23] They're identified and the information that was relied on in order to determine revenue, [00:02:32] pardon me, expenditures is related to current fiscal year information as well as a level [00:02:41] of service analysis. [00:02:46] The city entered into an agreement for the study in May of 2017 with PMG Associates Incorporated. [00:02:55] We have Phil Gonat here this evening, and he is going to walk us through a PowerPoint [00:03:00] which outlines the process that was employed. [00:03:04] At the conclusion of his presentation, we will discuss some recommendations based on [00:03:12] the principles of planning and growth management and service delivery that we will bring back [00:03:18] to you at a future time for further consideration. [00:03:23] You're up, Mr. Gonat. [00:03:27] Good afternoon. [00:03:31] My name is Phil Gonat. [00:03:32] I'm with a firm of PMG Associates. [00:03:36] We conducted this study and started in a broader sense looking at the utility service area [00:03:44] and what area you already have a relationship with certain of these residents, and that [00:03:49] was our beginning point. [00:03:52] We later broke that into different areas, and the manager mentioned the term communities [00:04:00] of interest, which is actually a federal election law terminology, which means people in that [00:04:07] particular area are of a homogeneous nature, and that's what we use as a basis of putting [00:04:14] groups together. [00:04:16] One of the things we want to do is make sure we eliminated the enclaves. [00:04:19] There are several in the city as there are now. [00:04:23] And then looking at squaring off the boundaries. [00:04:26] The reason for that is a better service delivery of the natural services that a municipality [00:04:34] would serve. [00:04:36] And then we looked at things along the properties along US 19, because that is a major corridor [00:04:42] and a major service area for this particular portion of the county. [00:04:48] We wanted to make sure you could expand the existing resources, provide services to these [00:04:54] particular people, because as interstate law, you must provide anyone that you annexed with [00:05:02] the same service level that you do with the existing residents. [00:05:07] So you wanted to make sure that you could do that. [00:05:09] One of the requirements in the state is that anyone annexing a particular area is proved [00:05:14] that you could make that service, that you could provide the service that is necessary [00:05:20] for those particular individuals. [00:05:23] And then the ease of implementation. [00:05:27] As the manager mentioned, there is a provision under state law that can have annexation occur [00:05:34] in an interlocal agreement between the county and the city. [00:05:40] That particular agreement would not require a referendum. [00:05:45] One of the criteria for establishing that is there is less than 250 registered voters in that area. [00:05:54] And a question from Councilman Starkey earlier was why wasn't certain areas included? [00:05:59] And that's because they are over the 250 threshold and would require a referendum. [00:06:06] We believe that the best way is to move forward with annexation now in a way that you can [00:06:12] handle it and then maybe later address those particular areas down the line. [00:06:19] So we came up with final boundary areas. [00:06:23] And we have maps for everyone there so that you don't have to try to see it off of the [00:06:27] screen, which is a little bit easier in terms of the areas. [00:06:32] We broke it into four phases, one through four. [00:06:37] The phase one is ones that we think is the immediate nature that you should try to go [00:06:43] ahead and pick up. [00:06:45] And others can be moved down the line. [00:06:48] One of the reasons that we do not recommend that you annex all of those areas at one time [00:06:53] is that would be such a strain on your providing your services for your departments that we [00:06:58] think that may be untenable. [00:07:03] So the demographics of the area, what you're adding in this particular annexation through [00:07:10] all four phases is about 2,500 people, excuse me, population is about 4,000, which right [00:07:19] now is a little over a third, about 40% of the existing city. [00:07:25] And again, that's another reason not to do it all at one time. [00:07:30] We broke down, as you can see, all the different issues with the number of housing units, those [00:07:39] that are occupied, some of those that aren't, most of them are seasonal, the population, [00:07:46] the number of businesses, and the voters, as well as the taxable value. [00:07:53] One of the departments, the fire department, asked for, of the businesses, who are they? [00:07:58] And we provided them a list of information. [00:08:03] One of them was every business listed within those areas. [00:08:06] So they have the names and addresses of those. [00:08:08] Yes, if I could ask a question. [00:08:11] So looking at the housing units, for instance, in annexation phase one shows 1,001 housing [00:08:16] units, 771 of them are occupied, and the remaining ones are unoccupied? [00:08:24] Either seasonal or unoccupied. [00:08:25] Oh, either seasonal or unoccupied, okay. [00:08:28] And then if I could add to that, my question being, when we looked, I'm all for squaring [00:08:34] off the city boundaries, but to me, I think it would be beneficial to the city if we went [00:08:38] due west. [00:08:40] So phase one is 771 occupied units, housing is a total of 1,001. [00:08:46] How many homes are in Seaforest? [00:08:49] I don't have any subsidies. [00:08:51] You said we have to do this in baby steps to avoid referendum, which I get. [00:08:56] However, I'd rather have a community like Seaforest. [00:08:59] You're talking of this area in here, is that it? [00:09:01] Yes, sir. [00:09:02] I mean, you have the whole coastline out there, the Red, in phase two, which there's really [00:09:05] just mangrove creeks, which I'm sure you'll explain why that's important. [00:09:09] But why not start with a neighborhood that many of the residents feel somewhat neglected [00:09:15] from the county as is, higher value homes, waterfront homes in phase one, and just do [00:09:20] one neighborhood rather than sporadically all over, because I'm sure there's less than [00:09:24] 1,001 homes in Seaforest. [00:09:26] So if you could just clarify that for me, I'd appreciate it. [00:09:30] I don't have that information, but I could get that information and submit it into the [00:09:34] city for you. [00:09:36] It just looks like the areas that we're choosing here in phase one and then phase two, all [00:09:42] spread out, but we've totaled them all up. [00:09:45] Like I said, to me, it'd be more beneficial to the city to go straight west to the coast. [00:09:50] I'm not saying we need to try to gobble up Seaforest, the Gulf Harbors, Woodlands, and [00:09:54] Gulf Harbors all in one shot, but Seaforest, at least the north part of Seaforest, maybe [00:09:58] north of Cross Bayou, might be a good option. [00:10:03] It's just not in these plans at all whatsoever, and it's very surprising and a bit disappointing. [00:10:07] So if you could just educate me as to why that is, then I could help. [00:10:12] The answer I can give you tonight is that that particular area has more than 250 voters, [00:10:19] which would require a referendum. [00:10:24] So the phase one, 1,001 housing uses, there's not more than 250 voters in that 1,001? [00:10:29] You have to look at each of the individual areas. [00:10:32] Each individual area? [00:10:33] Right. [00:10:34] Okay. [00:10:35] And the other issue with that is that abuts some of these other areas, and since they [00:10:40] are adjacent, you would have to combine them into one area, and that would require a referendum. [00:10:47] Can we just check into that a little deeper, though, and make sure there's no way to look [00:10:53] into... [00:10:54] He did, and if I could just say that, we had that discussion, Phil, and we looked at that [00:11:00] area there, and the numbers did exceed, and like Phil was saying, they'd have to be combined. [00:11:07] Okay. [00:11:08] There's got to be a way to look into that in the future, though. [00:11:11] I want to be sure we're not just gobbling up all the problem areas from the county and [00:11:15] not getting anything in return. [00:11:17] And like I said, a lot of these waterfront homeowners, a lot of them are my clients, [00:11:21] and a lot of them feel neglected from the county based on the amount of attention they [00:11:25] see on the east side compared to west side. [00:11:28] That's getting a bit better, but I just think the timing would be right as far as convincing [00:11:32] a lot of those homeowners. [00:11:34] I believe that I understand exactly your point, and I don't disagree with those points. [00:11:41] But I think in this particular analysis, we looked at the ease of implementation, meaning [00:11:47] not having to have a referendum, and including that area would push it into a referendum [00:11:53] for those particular people. [00:11:55] Is there a time in between phase one and phase two? [00:11:59] Is there an estimated timeline for that? [00:12:01] We planned a two-year time frame between each of the phases. [00:12:09] We also note that the area outside of that, which is in the map, the light gray, we would [00:12:16] call that a future annexation area. [00:12:19] And that would include that particular neighborhood that you're talking about, that that would [00:12:25] be something that could be moved into the future. [00:12:28] And what we would, based on our experience, that once the city starts showing success [00:12:36] and bringing in people and cleaning up some of those neighborhoods, because one in particular [00:12:42] there with the leisure lane area needs some work, obviously. [00:12:46] That's a nice way to put it. [00:12:49] Well, we're trying to be... [00:12:51] And I completely understand what you're saying, so I guess my next follow-up question is, [00:12:54] you have all these different sections in phase one, numbered one through 14 or so. [00:13:00] So we're not looking to annex all those at one time. [00:13:02] We're going to go with section one, then section two, then section three, then section four. [00:13:06] We're not doing it all at one time. [00:13:07] That's what our recommendation is, yes. [00:13:08] Okay. [00:13:09] Can I... [00:13:10] I'd like to ask a couple of questions. [00:13:12] One is, how do you... [00:13:16] In the area that Mr. Starkey was talking about with Seaforest, are you defining it by all [00:13:22] the homes in that area, or just in the development? [00:13:25] Because obviously there's phase one, phase two, they were phase developments, number [00:13:29] one. [00:13:30] And number two, why is it that we can only travel in one lane of traffic at one speed [00:13:38] and only travel so an area every two years? [00:13:42] I understand. [00:13:43] But every day, our service model is adjacent to this. [00:13:54] Mr. Starkey makes the best point. [00:13:57] They've got dynamic value dollars that immediately offset some of those other things. [00:14:06] And to me, if you're going to step up to the plate, I don't want to underhand slow pitch. [00:14:13] I'm okay. [00:14:14] I can deal with a curve ball. [00:14:15] I can deal with a slider. [00:14:17] I don't like it chin high. [00:14:19] But I'd like to be able to say, let me take the easy one. [00:14:23] And while I'm taking the easy one off of my cousin's plate, why don't we talk about the [00:14:31] referendum one so that we can put those together? [00:14:33] Because to me, Seaforest is an enclave. [00:14:37] You've got to drive through the city to get over there, because they can't exit west. [00:14:44] They can only exit east, and they've got to come through us, and we've built it, and they've [00:14:49] come through us every day. [00:14:51] So to me, it's a little short-sighted to just stay in that lane of traffic, and over and [00:14:59] above that. [00:15:00] You know, you would think that if you're going to invite one subset of the area, invite the [00:15:10] other and see if they'll both come at the same time, because we had a volunteer program [00:15:16] for, I don't know, 15 years, but nobody volunteered to come to the city. [00:15:20] They actually hired a coordinator for that, but it never came around. [00:15:26] We have data for all of these areas, so we can supply that into the city. [00:15:32] What the issue, I think, is here is that this is an entire community of interest, and if [00:15:37] you try to start splitting that up to keep it under the 250, that would be problematic, [00:15:48] and I think that would scuttle the whole annexation plan. [00:15:52] We suggest that you start with these phase one, and at the same time, then you can start [00:15:57] working on the other phases and then trying to get these particular people to come in. [00:16:04] They might, in some cases, we've seen where the neighborhoods of their homeowners associations, [00:16:11] their community groups, have said, we want to come into the city, and they petition that, [00:16:16] and that petition will allow you to move a referendum ahead, and that, I think, would [00:16:24] be the way to proceed in this case. [00:16:27] We didn't want to stop the other areas with a referendum. [00:16:32] I understand what you're saying. [00:16:33] It's just a bit disappointing. [00:16:35] When I'm looking at this map, and I know the Westside 19 very, very well, I can't think [00:16:41] of the name of the condos on the corner of Green Key Road and Fjord, but, I mean, couldn't [00:16:45] we just even look into that small community? [00:16:47] It's not part of Seaforest. [00:16:49] It's on your way up to Green Key Beach. [00:16:51] That would make me feel a little bit better with taking over Leisure Lane and Van Dorn, [00:16:55] just to at least get that. [00:16:57] If you say we can't break up Seaforest, I mean, like I said, it's basically Garland, [00:17:02] Spoonville, Bayside, Seaside, and Seagull, and then there's nothing south until you get [00:17:06] into Jobeth and the Woodlands, which is Rickover, Dewey, Mitchell Road. [00:17:12] So I understand not trying to pull it all at once, but, I mean, was that even looked [00:17:16] at? [00:17:17] Those condos? [00:17:18] Those are upper-scale condos. [00:17:19] It's a gated community entrance. [00:17:22] And I understand the point you're making. [00:17:24] I'm just having a hard time saying we can't try to grab any of that without a referendum [00:17:28] right now. [00:17:29] You're the expert, and you're educating me well. [00:17:30] I appreciate your time, but it just seems like we can get a little bit here, you know? [00:17:36] We can't do vacant property, correct? [00:17:38] We'll need to look at those particular subdivisions and see if they can be divided, because if [00:17:45] we took in that entire area, that would push it into a referendum. [00:17:51] Yeah, but like I said, I'm just thinking Cross Bayou North, so that's a section of Seaforest. [00:17:54] Everything south of that, Jobeth Drive even, I believe that's pretty much considered, you [00:17:59] know, and not even the condos there, Gulf Harbors, Woodlands, and, you know, I'm not [00:18:05] talking from Seaforest all the way to Gulf Harbors, just, I don't know. [00:18:09] We have the tax property appraiser data for this entire area, so we can cut out any particular [00:18:17] point if we needed to do that. [00:18:20] I agree with my colleagues. [00:18:22] I think at least take a look at it. [00:18:25] The stuff you've got in Orange, that strikes me as being your phase one, is the easy pickings. [00:18:30] It gets rid of some enclaves, but yeah, that section immediately south of Green Key Road [00:18:40] that's sitting in the gray, you know, it may be that when they start seeing something happening [00:18:47] and coming in. [00:18:54] If an enclave backs up to a main road, is it still an enclave? [00:19:01] And specifically number five and number six, and then obviously you've got a main Olsener [00:19:08] running between 11 and 12, I believe, running between 11 and 12, and I'm just, I'm trying [00:19:15] to make sure that we've quantified the enclave. [00:19:20] And one other thing on your revenue model that you, or the information you put, I don't [00:19:29] know how you would judge it, but we charge our waste haulers for waste hauler services [00:19:38] a kind of a user fee, and they pass that user fee onto the businesses or the residents. [00:19:49] So in actuality, if these new come in, they would fall under that same element. [00:19:57] So you either need to state that it's not applicable, or if it is applicable, it needs [00:20:01] to be added to your report, because it is an added service fee that we don't charge, [00:20:07] we charge the hauler, they put it on our bill. [00:20:10] So there is a exchange of dollars on a user basis. [00:20:17] So that was the only thing I saw on your user fee. [00:20:19] Actually, we have that, I can, when I get to the revenue section, I'll cover that particular [00:20:24] point with you. [00:20:25] Well, before you go any further, I want to ask a question. [00:20:29] It's my understanding that the city isn't eligible to annex property that we don't service [00:20:35] with utilities. [00:20:37] You can annex any area, it is not restricted to those with utilities. [00:20:42] Okay, thank you. [00:20:45] To follow up, but what you've created here are enclaves that we do service with water [00:20:52] utility, or utilities, is that correct or not? [00:20:56] Yes. [00:20:57] Okay. [00:20:58] There are a number of planning issues that we looked at. [00:21:03] Looking at the land use and the codes in the county and the city, generally speaking, they [00:21:10] are similar, if not identical. [00:21:13] Can I interrupt you just one more time, and then I'll get off my waterfront pedestal here. [00:21:17] You live in Seaforest Townhomes, correct? [00:21:19] I do. [00:21:20] And that's in the city limits? [00:21:21] Yes, it is. [00:21:22] Part of Seaforest, access to Gulf Harbors Beach Club, correct? [00:21:26] There you go. [00:21:27] So I don't understand why we can't subdivide parts of Seaforest. [00:21:31] It's proof that it's already been done. [00:21:33] You can still be part of this homeowner's association, still have Gulf access to the [00:21:37] beach and Gulf Harbors, but I mean, it's already done, so I don't think we need to look at [00:21:40] Green Key Road, south to Topsail Drive or Floor Mart. [00:21:44] I've got my point across, so just having a hard time getting over that, though. [00:21:48] I wrote that down. [00:21:49] Perfect. [00:21:50] Thank you. [00:21:51] Okay. [00:21:53] The planning issues, there are a few different things. [00:21:55] One of which is that there are some of the state type of zoning in the northwest section [00:22:01] that we're talking about, which is one unit per acre. [00:22:07] That's not a class that you currently have in the city, and you may want to add that. [00:22:13] The big issue is that the floor area ratio in the city is higher than in the county, [00:22:24] and what that would mean is that some businesses might like that because now they can get more [00:22:31] development on that site than they can under the current county regulations, and that is [00:22:36] something that might be attractive to them to be able to do that. [00:22:40] So that is something that we look at. [00:22:44] Some minor type of things, there's a difference in closing hours of those bars and places [00:22:51] that sell alcoholic beverages, they would have to be either grandfathered in on a short [00:22:56] term and then worked out on occasion as it goes along. [00:23:00] But from a planning perspective, it's minor, and I think adding an estate density certainly [00:23:08] does not hurt anyone in the existing city. [00:23:12] Okay, we estimated the revenues. [00:23:16] We looked at everything from ad valorem taxes, including franchise fees. [00:23:20] There's a franchise fee for garbage that was included in these particular estimates. [00:23:27] Everything from the utility taxes, the communication service tax on telephone, cable, and those [00:23:34] particular things. [00:23:36] We looked at inter-government revenues, the state shared revenues that come in based primarily [00:23:44] on population. [00:23:45] As your population goes up, those revenues will increase. [00:23:49] The other stormwater fees. [00:23:51] The one thing that there would be a loss to the city revenue-wise is on the utility [00:23:57] surcharge. [00:24:00] You charge people that are being served that are outside the city limits a surcharge. [00:24:05] That would be lost once they come in, and you'll see we have some estimates what those [00:24:09] numbers are as well. [00:24:11] But the value of the ad valorem, did you offset those with the ad valorem offset? [00:24:19] We have those figures, yes. [00:24:20] And then obviously coming into the city, we have a bunch of existing programs that we [00:24:26] have in place to enhance. [00:24:29] And if any implementation of the ULI recommendations long-term, it's a short front-end loss in [00:24:41] my mind. [00:24:42] And you did gloss over in the zoning issue elements a couple of things. [00:24:48] One, what the county allows you to do about parking vehicles and commercial vehicles in [00:24:53] their front yard. [00:24:54] But the one that really strikes me, and one that we wrestle with all the time, and back [00:25:00] and forth, and about First Amendment rights and all that kind of stuff, is city limits [00:25:07] signage to 200 square feet per business. [00:25:10] The county's got 480 square feet per business. [00:25:13] So in essence, that's not a net benefit to somebody wanting to come into the city. [00:25:19] So that's a longer thought process, and you have to deal with all of how it relates to [00:25:25] Highway 19 properties that would be coming in, and other elements. [00:25:30] So it's part of the Clint Eastwood movie. [00:25:35] It's the good, the bad, and the ugly. [00:25:38] So that would be something else that would need to be addressed so that you are comparable, [00:25:45] so you can have an adult conversation with the county about trying to set those platforms [00:25:54] to do some annexation, what the net benefits are, I believe. [00:25:59] There are differences in the signage, but the big thing for businesses and commercial [00:26:04] developers is the floor area ratio being higher. [00:26:09] That is direct dollars to them, their bottom line. [00:26:12] Do you find in your experience, when a city goes through a situation like this, that they [00:26:19] look at all those things while they're talking with their county, and perhaps it's an opportunity [00:26:24] for city and county to look at those things that are diametrically opposed to bring them [00:26:31] to something more uniform, or perhaps each of us gives... [00:26:36] It does. [00:26:37] There are some areas that are more of a benefit to the city, I think it's been mentioned earlier, [00:26:44] than some of the others. [00:26:46] And one of the things that we have suggested in some cases, City of Largo in particular, [00:26:54] the county wanted the city to annex a particular area. [00:26:58] They told them we would only do that if we could take this other area, which would balance [00:27:04] out the revenues for the costs as well. [00:27:07] So there are give and take. [00:27:10] I think my understanding is, at least from the county administrator's point of view, [00:27:17] they like this idea because it helps them in their service delivery. [00:27:23] But there's a lot of different issues as they go back and forth between them. [00:27:29] I think in general, generally, the county would see this as favorable to them. [00:27:37] If you took only high revenue areas and no lower revenue areas, I think they would think [00:27:44] differently, but that's not what's happening here. [00:27:46] Yeah, we're doing the exact opposite, it seems like. [00:27:48] What are we going to... [00:27:49] Are we going to lose our leverage then? [00:27:51] Yeah, I mean, the way I see it, we're giving them all the leverage, honestly. [00:27:59] But when are you going to sit down with Mr. Biles and go over all this? [00:28:03] Is that a plan, or are we just going to... [00:28:05] We're not to a point yet that I can make a specific presentation to Mr. Biles. [00:28:10] I have had some discussion with him about annexation in general, though, and additionally [00:28:19] about extending the CRA district to include areas of annexation. [00:28:25] He has at least indicated to me in my discussions that he'd be willing to do both. [00:28:31] Just those two streets, Van Doren and Leisure Lane, the amount of resources they've put [00:28:34] in in the last year and a half of code enforcement, police alone, is a huge, huge savings. [00:28:39] So you're a great negotiator, so I trust you. [00:28:45] Well, I would caution, because it may look like they would be amenable to expanding the [00:28:56] CRA, but under the former county administrator, that was a non-starter, because she had been [00:29:05] here for so long and she understood what the dynamics of the city of New Port Richey, making [00:29:09] it 90 or whatever percentage it is of the city, their CRA. [00:29:14] We really did test the boundaries of the CRA legislation, number one. [00:29:21] Number two, some of the folks, we're non-partisan, so I don't really care when you go out to [00:29:28] talk to the voters, Republican, Democrat. [00:29:30] We're non-partisan, so we get to represent the people. [00:29:33] We don't have to pick a side. [00:29:35] We don't have to get in the lane of traffic. [00:29:37] But some of the people that I would imagine that are out there on the county commission [00:29:43] that are Republicans or Democrats or whatever, and that have ties back to the state government, [00:29:50] they've been kicking the CRAs all over the place for the last couple of years, and when [00:29:55] somebody sits down and really smells the coffee on it, you know, gets a stroke. [00:30:00] Long Brew, I think you're going to get some pushback. [00:30:03] So in my mind, I would go in with the idea of, if they'll [00:30:07] let us, fine. [00:30:07] If not, we take it at what it is, because it allows us to [00:30:11] reach expansive goals, and it makes it able to touch those [00:30:15] other areas that, right now, we are hesitant to try to put [00:30:19] in the pool. [00:30:21] Our initial contract did not include CRA analysis. [00:30:29] As it came up, and the manager talking to the county [00:30:31] administrator, he said there was a question, what impact [00:30:35] would it have? [00:30:36] We did calculate that. [00:30:37] That's in the report. [00:30:39] In terms of would all of these areas be appropriate for a [00:30:45] CRA, that was not something that we considered. [00:30:49] But what I will tell you, that there are some parts of [00:30:51] this annexation that are perfect for a CRA. [00:30:55] And if you look at that particular point, you should [00:31:00] at least consider expanding your boundaries to include [00:31:03] certain areas. [00:31:05] And some of those along 19, the leisure lane area [00:31:09] particular, some of those may be absolutely [00:31:12] what a CRA is for. [00:31:14] So I would think that you should expand. [00:31:20] Should you expand at the whole point, that's a discussion [00:31:22] that needs to be had. [00:31:23] But I think expansion, yes. [00:31:27] To what degree is a discussion point? [00:31:29] Do you talk about an additional overlay CRA on the [00:31:32] area that you bring in, in a smaller footprint? [00:31:37] Is that kind of what you're alluding to? [00:31:39] You could expand your current CRA to include new areas. [00:31:44] However, those new areas, the base year would start the year [00:31:47] that you expanded. [00:31:49] So let's say you did it in 2018, 2019. [00:31:53] That would be the base year for that area. [00:31:56] It still could be made a part of the existing CRA and have [00:32:02] all the functionality that you have currently. [00:32:05] That does not change. [00:32:08] But the question is, what do you add? [00:32:11] When do you add it? [00:32:12] And the base year for it, for the increment, would be the [00:32:17] year that it comes in. [00:32:20] And regardless of whether it's already in the city or not in [00:32:24] the city. [00:32:28] That being the case, as a caveat, Ms. Manns, obviously in [00:32:33] looking at the areas that Mr. Starkey was interested in, and [00:32:36] maybe just the condos or the high rises on the east side of [00:32:44] the main road through there is one. [00:32:47] I would think that part of the conversation ought to include [00:32:50] the Oyster Bayou Fire Department. [00:32:53] Because to be perfectly honest with you, the balance point of [00:32:57] bringing that in, closing High Street, and getting the one on [00:33:02] Oyster Bayou would, to me, be a net benefit to the city. [00:33:08] Because Chief Fitch has provided us information, or me [00:33:13] everyone information, because we shared it, of over 1,300 [00:33:17] calls on Highway 19. [00:33:20] And all 1,213 of them, they've got to pull the engines either [00:33:26] off of High Street, or they've got to pull them [00:33:29] right out of here. [00:33:30] And they're going up and down Main Street all day long. [00:33:34] If they're already on 19 on the west side there, it would [00:33:42] make sense that it would probably lessen the wear and [00:33:46] tear, give you a little more coverage. [00:33:48] I don't think it changes your SRO. [00:33:50] What is it? [00:33:52] ISO? [00:33:52] The ISO? [00:33:54] But I think it balances your ability to say, you've got a [00:33:57] fire department that serves your soon-to-be annexed area. [00:34:00] Councilman, my geography on the? [00:34:05] Cross Bayou, Mr. Mayor. [00:34:06] OK. [00:34:07] Yeah, I'm looking at Oyster Creek and thinking that we're [00:34:09] talking about Cross Bayou. [00:34:11] I just want to make sure I'm? [00:34:14] Yeah, I'm directionally challenged, street challenged [00:34:16] when I get on the west side. [00:34:18] That's my problem, and I was trying to make sure I [00:34:21] understood what we were talking about. [00:34:23] You're correct. [00:34:23] It's right behind where the old Kmart used to sit. [00:34:29] All right, I know the area we're talking about then. [00:34:30] Thank you very much. [00:34:32] We then calculated revenues for all the different funds [00:34:36] in the city. [00:34:38] The general fund is significant because that's [00:34:41] what you do for daily operations. [00:34:43] But there will also be revenues generated for [00:34:46] stormwater, street lighting, and paving, too. [00:34:48] They are kept separate, and they were in this particular [00:34:51] case as well. [00:34:53] The idea here was to get an idea of what is going to be [00:34:56] generated from these particular areas. [00:35:01] Would it be beneficial that if you're looking to do the [00:35:03] annexation, and you set up the model, if you came in, [00:35:09] these are the kind of additional, not only services, [00:35:13] but the upgrades that would happen in these areas, very [00:35:15] similar to what we've done in blank, blank, blank within the [00:35:18] city, it's kind of the carrot out there that if you came, we [00:35:23] would hopefully be able to solve some of your, maybe some [00:35:25] of your existing flooding issues, or be able to address [00:35:29] off-site draining, or septic tanks, or whatever else there [00:35:33] might be out there. [00:35:34] I'm just asking if that's part of it. [00:35:35] Through my experience, what I would say is that for those [00:35:39] areas, especially where a referendum is required, the [00:35:42] people that need to sell this referendum are [00:35:46] sitting on a dais. [00:35:48] Because you are responsible for them, just as you are [00:35:52] responsible for the current residents. [00:35:54] They need to look you in the eye and believe that you are [00:35:58] going to provide services. [00:36:00] You're going to give a better response for the accidents, [00:36:05] the better fire rating, whatever it might be. [00:36:09] They are the people who are going to sell it. [00:36:12] And one of the things is we don't do that, because we are [00:36:15] here to provide the technical analysis. [00:36:19] We are not here to market the particular situation. [00:36:23] As I learned a long time ago in this business, we have no [00:36:26] dog in this fight. [00:36:28] What we want to do is make sure you have the information [00:36:31] you need to make the decisions to go forward or not. [00:36:36] So that's one point. [00:36:37] But I think your point, Councilman, is perfect, that [00:36:41] you need to talk to these people and show them you are [00:36:44] going to do better. [00:36:46] And what I've seen a lot of times is department heads, as [00:36:50] well as elected officials, that come out, they want the [00:36:53] person who can answer for everything. [00:36:56] And yes, it comes down to the buck stopping. [00:37:00] And that's what you're going to have to do to sell this, [00:37:04] especially where a referendum is required. [00:37:07] Sir, you told us that what you've provided includes those [00:37:13] areas that we are providing water. [00:37:16] Are there some of these areas that we're bringing into the [00:37:19] city or wanting to bring into the city on sewer right now, [00:37:22] or do we know that? [00:37:26] I believe they're all covered, but I'd have to go back and [00:37:30] check the maps. [00:37:30] They're all covered? [00:37:31] You mean that they're all on sewer? [00:37:33] Yes. [00:37:38] OK, now the expenditures. [00:37:40] The bill's going to come due at some point of how you're [00:37:42] going to pay for serving this. [00:37:45] We met with all the department heads. [00:37:48] And the first thing I told them is I'm overweight, I'm [00:37:51] turning white, but I'm not Santa Claus. [00:37:54] I'm not here to give you all these additional people that [00:37:58] you think you already need. [00:38:00] What we look at is what is caused by this annexation. [00:38:06] And it's additional staffing, it's additional capital needs, [00:38:10] and we'll go through every one of those. [00:38:13] And we sat down at several different sessions with the [00:38:16] city manager to go through those particular requests that [00:38:20] might come out of the department. [00:38:23] Frankly, if it's something that you think that you need [00:38:27] already, annexation didn't cause it. [00:38:32] Now, did annexation exacerbate a current situation? [00:38:37] It could have, and that then would be included in there. [00:38:41] Because a lot of people think that revenues go up on a [00:38:46] straight line, and expenditures go the same way. [00:38:50] They don't. [00:38:50] They take steps. [00:38:53] Because you can't just add 20% of a police officer. [00:38:58] You have to have an entire one. [00:39:00] So you have to look at it from that perspective. [00:39:03] When do you need that additional unit of service? [00:39:07] For police in particular, we look at zone cars. [00:39:10] For public works, we look at crews. [00:39:13] We look at what do you need to service this particular area. [00:39:18] And that's how we build our analysis of expenditures. [00:39:23] The bottom line is, can you afford it? [00:39:26] And we want to make sure that their revenues [00:39:28] cover the cost of these. [00:39:33] So we have the staffing requirements. [00:39:35] And I know you're not going to be able to see that. [00:39:39] It's in the report, right? [00:39:41] Yeah, it's in the report. [00:39:42] It's in the report that we have it on our website. [00:39:44] Oh, it's in the report that I've got [00:39:46] on the charts up here. [00:39:49] What you'll see is we not only determine [00:39:52] what increase in budget for each department, [00:39:57] but how many people they needed to add by each job [00:40:00] classification. [00:40:02] So how many additional police officers? [00:40:04] How many additional recreation leaders? [00:40:07] Every one that do that. [00:40:09] And we put those into those particular phasing. [00:40:13] And then we got the cost factors out of human resources. [00:40:17] We know what to cost. [00:40:19] We went over the fringe benefits. [00:40:22] We have a finance department with that [00:40:24] to make sure that we have everything covered. [00:40:26] Even to the point of talking to the technology department. [00:40:30] Because somebody comes in, you're [00:40:32] going to need computers for that. [00:40:35] It's not just buying a computer. [00:40:36] You have the software that you have to deal with. [00:40:39] We need to make sure that we cover every single thing. [00:40:43] So that we covered all of the expenditures [00:40:45] that are necessary. [00:40:47] Now what we did do for the capital items [00:40:50] is that we amortized it. [00:40:52] Because we want to look at what is an average year [00:40:56] that you're going to look through. [00:40:59] And then we'll make sure that we covered all of those costs. [00:41:03] Because you're replacing your cars, [00:41:06] we figured on a five year cycle. [00:41:09] Especially the police cars. [00:41:10] If they last that long, that's what we need to do. [00:41:14] I'll ask a question. [00:41:16] Obviously you looked at what our expenditures are. [00:41:20] Did you extrapolate what the net savings would [00:41:23] be back to the county or their groups for not having to? [00:41:28] Or is it dollar for dollar if we pick up the expenditure? [00:41:34] Is it a net reduction on the county side? [00:41:39] Because obviously that's another area of conversation. [00:41:44] Is you no longer have to run your sheriff's department [00:41:48] through the city out to this area [00:41:50] and then call us for assistance. [00:41:52] Because we're there and we're providing it. [00:41:55] And that's another one of those net savings back to the county. [00:41:59] And I'm just wondering. [00:42:02] I can't imagine it's dollar for dollar. [00:42:04] Because I know their fringe benefits are less than ours. [00:42:07] I know that their series of other things are less. [00:42:11] Plus we're conveniently located. [00:42:13] They've got to come from somewhere else to there. [00:42:15] So I'm just wondering. [00:42:17] We've got our expenditures. [00:42:18] I'm looking at what the net savings is. [00:42:20] Because that's the other side of the equation to negotiate [00:42:23] or to show what it does for upping their service [00:42:27] levels to other key areas on the west side of 19. [00:42:32] What I think we will find is they will tell you [00:42:35] they will not save any money. [00:42:37] And the reason they will tell you [00:42:39] that is that because they're not going to let go of deputies. [00:42:43] Because you've annexed these areas. [00:42:46] They'll just reassign them and do it that particular way. [00:42:51] We actually did do, we did not do that study here. [00:42:57] To tell how much the county is going to save. [00:43:00] We did do a study actually in Miami-Dade County [00:43:02] looking at the possibility of annexing the entire county. [00:43:08] Either in forming new cities or going into existing ones. [00:43:13] And we looked at that cost savings to the county. [00:43:17] It is at best, on a large scale, 50%. [00:43:24] That's the best answer that we could get. [00:43:28] To not have them traveling through the city [00:43:32] to go service an affluent area or an area that's [00:43:35] on the coastline. [00:43:37] And they can redistribute their forces [00:43:42] to other areas that may have distinct upper problems. [00:43:50] And obviously, they can't say it's a net zero. [00:43:53] Let's just put it that way. [00:43:55] Because that dog don't hunt. [00:43:57] And it don't hunt. [00:43:58] And at the end of the day, you have to say, look. [00:44:01] We're providing you with additional hours and levels [00:44:06] of service to areas that now are stretched out. [00:44:11] Because we're going to pick up key zones that, [00:44:14] at the end of the day, gives you better. [00:44:16] In my mind, you won't be here to discuss that. [00:44:23] But I would think that that would be part of whatever [00:44:25] presentation we allow the manager to go negotiate [00:44:29] with us. [00:44:29] And that might take for however long that takes. [00:44:32] I don't know. [00:44:37] They would have a savings, as you said, [00:44:39] because they do not have to allocate personnel [00:44:42] to those particular areas. [00:44:45] It's true. [00:44:45] But they're not going to lay people off. [00:44:48] That's not going to happen. [00:44:49] And we know that. [00:44:51] So that's why I know they will tell you they're not [00:44:54] going to save any money. [00:44:55] OK. [00:45:00] Let's not hone in on something that we have to come back to later on. [00:45:03] I agree. [00:45:04] So I'm good with it, thanks. [00:45:05] Okay, so we looked at the costs for each of the departments. [00:45:10] As you might know with phase one, remember we were generating about $747,000 [00:45:19] and our expenditures are $522,000. [00:45:22] The difference of that could pay for some of the capital for some of the cars, for example. [00:45:26] Okay, the net financial position, you see as we look through those particular costs, [00:45:34] we're saving a substantial amount of money in each phase. [00:45:38] Okay, the implementation part of it, this is where to sit down with the county [00:45:44] and begin a discussion with them on your overall plan. [00:45:49] That we want to take in these particular areas now through the interlocal agreement [00:45:56] if you want to move ahead and schedule some referendums, that can be done. [00:46:03] But we think that you should do this on a phased basis so that you don't bring [00:46:09] in everybody all at one time. [00:46:11] I think that would be too much of an overload to providing the services. [00:46:17] We looked at the phasing, we put together about a two-year cycle. [00:46:23] Could that be accelerated to an annual cycle? [00:46:26] Yes. We just suggest that to make sure that there's enough time to assume all the new personnel [00:46:35] and cover all the people so that they know what you're covering. [00:46:38] And one of the things that we also, the recommendation as we go back to the revenues, [00:46:45] you know the items that are in the franchise fees, utility tax, [00:46:52] the telecommunication tax is based on your address, what jurisdiction you're in. [00:47:02] And you would think that if you annex an area, all those people now would have the address [00:47:08] and the money would come to New Port Richey. [00:47:11] I will tell you by example, that is not true. [00:47:16] Things don't always catch up the way you should. [00:47:20] An example is for our business, we were located in Deerfield Beach at one point, [00:47:25] we moved to the city of Coconut Creek and then moved back to Deerfield Beach years later. [00:47:30] One day I was looking at the bill and the franchise fee still was going to Coconut Creek, [00:47:35] even though we were not there, our address was not there. [00:47:40] There are companies that you can contract with that will make sure [00:47:46] that you're getting all of the revenue that you should. [00:47:49] Usually their fee is a percentage of the amount that you get recovered in the first year. [00:47:55] We suggest very strongly that you do that. [00:47:58] Because I would bet you that there are certain people, because you've had some annexation [00:48:03] over the years, that maybe are not paying these fees to New Port Richey. [00:48:09] And you need to make sure in this particular case that it happens. [00:48:14] And it is something that you really need to make sure that you do. [00:48:19] Also, the money that comes to the state out of the insurance premiums, [00:48:24] some of that comes back to the city that's serving it too. [00:48:29] And you have to make sure that you do that. [00:48:32] Because it could be a substantial amount of money and you don't want to lose it just [00:48:37] because somebody didn't program a computer correctly and you missed that revenue. [00:48:43] So we cannot stress that strong enough. [00:48:47] We don't do that work, so I don't know exactly what it takes. [00:48:51] But I know through GIS they put all the addresses in and make sure with the utility companies [00:48:57] that the franchise fees go to the right jurisdiction. [00:49:01] And I think you need to do that for certain before you finish this particular process. [00:49:08] Okay, the time frames, as we suggested, we quickly... [00:49:15] Could you do it by October of this year, the phase one? [00:49:20] That's doable if the county wishes to do that and moves ahead. [00:49:26] They need to do an interlocal agreement on it. [00:49:31] And frankly, it's not one resolution [00:49:36] or ordinance for them because we have 2018 and phase one, it's 18 individual ones. [00:49:47] They are not one mass annexation. [00:49:51] It's each individual one. [00:49:53] So that would have to be written up very carefully so that you don't miss something. [00:49:59] And then you would have to make sure you bring them into the city that particular way. [00:50:06] Okay, again, a question on a potential CRA. [00:50:10] You obviously use an October. [00:50:13] Is that to use it on a physical year basis? [00:50:15] Yes. [00:50:16] That's one. [00:50:17] Yes. [00:50:19] Part of that conversation would be about if there's existing liens or existing outstanding... [00:50:30] Delinquent taxes. [00:50:31] Fines, taxes, whatever. [00:50:34] That obviously has to be part and parcel of stopping and starting and all those. [00:50:39] Those are all logistical items that would be in play, correct? [00:50:43] Right. [00:50:44] Okay. [00:50:45] There are four different levels of delinquent taxes, including those where liens have been placed. [00:50:53] So yes, all of that would have to be worked out. [00:50:57] Legal issues that would have to be done. [00:50:59] Okay. [00:51:00] Okay. [00:51:01] All right. [00:51:02] So we looked at the idea of the potential of expanding your current CRA. [00:51:08] And we looked at it of adding each of these areas as they come in. [00:51:14] We also looked at the point as if you're going to do that and the county is amenable to that, [00:51:20] you might want to look at the existing parts of the city that are not in a CRA. [00:51:25] And so we looked at the numbers on that. [00:51:29] The question is, is we looked at those revenues and expenditures on an annual basis and in current dollars. [00:51:39] Well, if you're looking at it, something with the CRA, it's the TIF that comes in over time. [00:51:46] So what we had to do is estimate the growth of revenue and the growth of expenditures. [00:51:54] Dealing with the city manager, we came up with an estimate of the revenue growth of 1.5% per year, [00:52:04] which has been historic evidence in the last several years anyhow. [00:52:11] In terms of expenditures, they're going up higher because we're dealing with insurance, dealing with health costs, [00:52:21] all of those particular issues. [00:52:23] So our increase of expenditures was 3% a year, actually double that of the revenue growth. [00:52:33] We wanted to make sure that we were, you know, making sure that we were conservative in our estimates [00:52:42] and we didn't project the revenues too high or the expenditures too low. [00:52:51] So again, looking at the revenue increase of 1.5% annually, 3% on expenditures. [00:52:57] We ran those numbers out to the fiscal year 29-30. [00:53:03] We picked that as a general year to go out to. [00:53:10] We found that there was no negative impact, or not a significant negative impact, [00:53:17] on the general fund during that time frame. [00:53:22] The amount of revenue is, in fact, less because part of it goes off to the CRA. [00:53:29] So in the short term, there will be zero impact because the base year of the CRA will be established when it comes in. [00:53:39] So there will be no loss in the short term. [00:53:42] In the long term, there will be a loss that will grow each year. [00:53:47] And we also looked at whether you would be able to expand the CRA [00:53:52] to add the current portion of the city that's not in the CRA. [00:53:58] And again, you are not running a negative financial position through the fiscal year 29-30. [00:54:05] Now, beyond that, could it happen if the rate of inflation goes up? [00:54:12] Would that change this? [00:54:14] It could, yes. [00:54:16] But that was based on the current figures that we were looking at. [00:54:20] And then we think that you can do that if you wish to do that. [00:54:25] The question would be, do you want to include all of the areas in the CRA or only certain ones? [00:54:31] That's a debate and that's a discussion you have to have. [00:54:36] We know that you're currently in a position of updating the CRA plan. [00:54:42] And I think that needs to consider these options as well in terms of these new areas [00:54:49] before you complete that particular work. [00:54:54] That's everything that I have for you. [00:54:56] I have some questions. [00:54:58] I'm sorry, I'm so focused on this map. [00:55:00] Can you go back to the map with the phases? [00:55:05] I just don't see how this phase one. [00:55:07] I'm zooming in. [00:55:08] I know our city pretty well once I zoom in and start looking at street names and whatnot. [00:55:12] My first question is, what benefit is it for the city to annex Section 17? [00:55:19] It has a few decent homes when you cross the little wooden bridge in Manor Beach. [00:55:22] You've got Oyster Bayou, which is a gated community. [00:55:25] It has about eight, nine homes in it. [00:55:26] Other than that, it's just marshland. [00:55:28] So what's the benefit of the city assuming that, along with one more park that we would have to maintain, [00:55:32] which is a very expensive park to maintain? [00:55:35] So that's my first question. [00:55:36] Why are we looking to do that? [00:55:38] That was a suggestion to pick up the park, yes. [00:55:41] On top of that, I am looking at phase one. [00:55:44] I can go number by number if you want. [00:55:46] Oldsner Street and Limit Drive, number 14. [00:55:53] My grandparents used to live in that mobile home park. [00:55:56] It used to be nice back in the late 70s, early 80s. [00:55:59] It is dilapidated mobile homes. [00:56:01] I mean, when I'm looking at these sections, you go over to just north of number five, [00:56:08] which is over by Middie Pielock Elementary, where my kids go. [00:56:12] Trouble Creek, north side of Trouble Creek, that's just south of the tax collector's office. [00:56:16] Low-income housing, I passed a house on the corner the other day. [00:56:19] I think there was nine cars in probably a 2-2 house on a corner lot, nine cars wrapped around in the yard. [00:56:26] When I look at these numbers and I visualize what we're trying to annex in phase one, [00:56:31] all I see is more resources on our police department, more resources on our code enforcement. [00:56:36] I mean, you look at the west side of 19, you throw in that big old number 17. [00:56:39] We're basically wanting to surround the entire seaforest, Gulf Harbors, woodlands, [00:56:44] and I'm not even worried about Gulf Harbors right now, with the city, [00:56:47] and let the county have the high-income waterfront homes. [00:56:49] And I understand the referendum, what you guys are trying to. [00:56:52] But honestly, when I look at this and I'm looking at these numbers and zooming in [00:56:55] and visualizing what these areas look like, the county would probably send you a present and say, [00:57:01] thank you so much, yeah, great, take it all. [00:57:04] I don't see the net benefit for the city out of any of this phase one. [00:57:08] I really, really don't. [00:57:10] And you've done a very detailed report. [00:57:12] You've compacted it in layman's terms so I can understand it. [00:57:16] But when I zoom in on these areas we're looking to take over in phase one, [00:57:20] I just see additional strain on our resources, [00:57:23] and I don't see the benefit of us assuming, annexing all these areas that are low-adverse tax areas, [00:57:30] high-crime areas in some of the ones I'm looking at, and not getting anything in return from the county, [00:57:35] not even trying to get north across Bayou. [00:57:39] And I think we can try to do that without avoiding a referendum. [00:57:43] I just, Ms. Manz, if you want to step in and explain to me the logic. [00:57:49] There must be something I'm missing here. [00:57:51] There must be. [00:57:52] The objectives that we were working from originally was trying to square off the boundaries. [00:57:58] I understand that. [00:57:59] And that's why we've included some of these areas. [00:58:06] We also were operating under the premise that we shouldn't start off with a referendum vote, [00:58:12] that that would be something that we could do in the future after we demonstrated ourselves [00:58:18] as providing an appropriate level of service to newly annexed areas. [00:58:24] And really, the purpose tonight is to get your input, [00:58:27] so I appreciate very much your comments and the direction that you're providing to us. [00:58:34] There is some give and take, and there are areas I see in phase one and phase two where I just think, [00:58:38] man, I'd love to have those areas as part of the city limits. [00:58:42] I mean, I can understand why we're taking over Van Dorn and Leisure Lane, [00:58:45] north of Trouble Creek and south of the tax collector's office, [00:58:48] the dilapidated mobile home park I referenced. [00:58:53] I just don't get why. [00:58:55] I mean, if you're looking section by section, why even put number 14 in there? [00:59:01] We've got history, and it's not good history. [00:59:05] We're trying to deal with a mobile home park right now. [00:59:07] We already jacked with a mobile home park, some of us, cleaned it up, [00:59:12] set our targets on what we were going to collect back and got 30 cents on the frigging dollar. [00:59:20] We had a $150,000 minimum outstanding obligation, [00:59:27] and because we didn't quarterback it right, and I'm taking the blame for it [00:59:32] because we didn't quarterback it right, we settled for $50,000. [00:59:36] Now, I was one of the biggest proponents when I got here in 2012 to look at annexation, [00:59:42] and the reason was because I had an old high school teacher who was a county administrator [00:59:46] who lived in the city that every time I saw him, he said, [00:59:49] you guys have all these expenses you haven't expanded. [00:59:52] That was number one. [00:59:53] Number two, I was under the hope, the hope. [01:00:00] that we would be a viable entity for the VA [01:00:05] in the Marine District. [01:00:07] And with that, my thought process was, [01:00:11] if that comes, then the federal money's coming, [01:00:15] and that money can be invested, [01:00:17] and it's gonna have an effect from Darlington Road [01:00:22] up to New Port Richey, because of what it was gonna do [01:00:26] within the city, and it would allow us flexibility [01:00:30] in trying to encourage people to come [01:00:33] because we'd have jobs, we'd be reinvesting [01:00:35] in those neighborhoods, all those. [01:00:36] But reality hit us in July or August of last year [01:00:41] when we were eliminated, out of the gate. [01:00:44] And when that happened, some of the stuff you're showing, [01:00:47] Mr. Starkey's picking right up on it. [01:00:49] It's our dollars. [01:00:51] We're not getting any federal money back in. [01:00:53] It'd be a whole lot of CBDG money. [01:00:55] It'd be expenses onto our other services, [01:00:58] and over above that, we would be taking on [01:01:02] a boatload of problems that would take away [01:01:07] from all of our existing neighborhood improvements [01:01:09] that we should have been doing over time. [01:01:11] So that's where I see things at, [01:01:13] and how I was hoping that this would factor out, [01:01:17] but because of those other interplay actions, [01:01:21] didn't happen. [01:01:22] So now it comes back that it falls on ours. [01:01:25] It falls on our plate when it comes to those dollars, [01:01:28] and there's not any marginal big jumps in the CRA. [01:01:33] And I really think the CRA restructuring, [01:01:36] I think, is gonna get problematic, [01:01:38] but that's a different thing. [01:01:40] So that's me. [01:01:42] I definitely would like to see us look at some [01:01:47] of that gray area that might actually [01:01:50] get us some tax revenues. [01:01:53] I personally would love to see us take out [01:01:57] some of this really nasty stuff on the west side of US-19, [01:02:01] and if that means annexing it, [01:02:04] so we can get it cleaned up. [01:02:05] The classic example of that is Leisure Lane, Van Doren. [01:02:13] And I agree 100%. [01:02:14] I just want a little something in return. [01:02:16] You know what I mean? [01:02:16] Like, I'm ready to tackle these areas. [01:02:18] Believe me, I'm ready. [01:02:20] Leisure Lane, Van Doren, if that was our jurisdiction, [01:02:24] it would not look like what it looks like today, [01:02:27] but I'm seeing some serious problem areas here, [01:02:29] which is, like I said, just gonna be a strain [01:02:31] on our resources. [01:02:33] Our code enforcement, in my opinion, [01:02:34] is stretched pretty thin right now. [01:02:36] Our police department, they do a great job, [01:02:39] but they work their tails off, [01:02:40] and it's like, if we're gonna take these problem areas, [01:02:42] which I'm not scared to do, I'm not scared of a challenge. [01:02:45] Let's do it, let's get it cleaned up, [01:02:47] but like I said, and I'll say it one more time, [01:02:50] give us something in return. [01:02:51] You don't know unless you ask. [01:02:52] Absolutely, you're absolutely right, [01:02:54] and I think one of the things that I see that may come [01:02:59] is the conversations you're gonna have on April the 25th [01:03:02] when you're back in front of the BOCC, [01:03:05] because I believe there's other elements out there [01:03:08] as it relates to the Linderich service area, [01:03:12] which we never really analyzed well enough. [01:03:15] We analyzed the Beverly ones and bought that, [01:03:18] bought those service systems, [01:03:19] and we're not even talking about jumping row and road [01:03:22] right now, it's all in the gray area, [01:03:25] and to me, it's kind of an east-west strategy. [01:03:30] I would have loved to have had more on the west side [01:03:32] because it would have got us more BP money [01:03:35] on the cleanup side instead of the $150,000 [01:03:38] we had to wait forever on to do Orange Lake or whatever, [01:03:41] and we can't touch another pool, but over that, [01:03:44] I agree with Jeff, we gotta get, [01:03:49] I don't mind being helpful, but at the same time, [01:03:55] it needs to have net benefit and net upside, [01:03:58] and it needs to be able to carry the water [01:04:02] on some other things. [01:04:02] I think we're all saying exactly the same thing, Bill. [01:04:06] And if I could ask a question looking at the map. [01:04:09] So the area that we're discussing, [01:04:14] just south of Green Key Road and down to, [01:04:17] whatever this road is down here, [01:04:20] just where Seaforest Drive is written on that map, [01:04:24] that area in gray is not all seaforest, [01:04:29] but that area for the iteration on this map [01:04:33] is more than 250 families? [01:04:38] I would say it's a good all one. [01:04:39] The entire area here is more than 250. [01:04:42] So if you could just put your green [01:04:44] up on the top square there, higher, [01:04:47] that's seaforest, and there's a pretty good gap, [01:04:49] and then you have the two high rises, [01:04:51] and then further down where it curves to the left, [01:04:52] basically Rickover, Dewey, if you zoom in, [01:04:55] Mitchell, no, Mitchell Road, Joveth, [01:04:58] that's really all Gulf Harbors, Woodland. [01:05:02] So my point being, I don't know there's 250 homes [01:05:05] in seaforest alone north across Bayou. [01:05:07] They're constructing homes right now [01:05:09] in that gated vacant area, [01:05:11] but I'd like to look into that [01:05:12] and see if we can possibly at least ask for that [01:05:16] in exchange for the problem areas, [01:05:17] if we can avoid referendum. [01:05:19] Yeah, there's a waterway right in through here. [01:05:21] Yeah, that little bridge. [01:05:22] I'm talking north of the bridge there. [01:05:24] And that would be an area [01:05:27] that could be partitioned off. [01:05:31] That would make me feel a lot better. [01:05:33] And we will look at that, because I obviously, [01:05:38] from a revenue standpoint, [01:05:40] you can't be anything but right, okay? [01:05:43] The only issue that I would be concerned about [01:05:45] would be the number of registered voters. [01:05:48] And we have that information. [01:05:50] We got the full list from the supervisors or elections, [01:05:54] so we can run that through and see how many are there. [01:05:57] Now, what we're hoping is in each of these areas [01:06:01] that it's significantly under the 250. [01:06:05] There's only one that is not, [01:06:08] and that's that trailer park down in here. [01:06:12] And what you might see is if this moves along, [01:06:18] if they start to aggressively get people to sign up, [01:06:24] you might be over your 250. [01:06:25] And once again, I'm not even frustrated. [01:06:29] I'm just questioning. [01:06:29] You did a great job in your study, [01:06:31] great job in your annexation study and report. [01:06:33] I just want a little bit more [01:06:35] for what we're looking to assume. [01:06:37] What I have to look at is this entire area [01:06:41] is considered one community of interest [01:06:43] by the federal government. [01:06:46] But once again, there's seaforest townhomes, [01:06:49] which part of seaforest as well. [01:06:49] If we can look at a reason to split that. [01:06:51] Yeah, because that's in the city, [01:06:53] and the rest of the seaforest is not. [01:06:54] Okay, so that's what we will look at doing. [01:06:57] Yes. [01:06:58] And basically, it will be that waterway [01:07:00] in through right about here. [01:07:01] North of the waterway, that little bridge, yeah. [01:07:03] Because we already have five mobile home parks [01:07:05] within our city confines [01:07:07] that we're not very effective with. [01:07:11] It was clearly identified when the ULI folks were here, [01:07:14] but the ULI folks really never addressed it [01:07:17] on the day they were here. [01:07:19] So at the end of the day, [01:07:22] it's problematic when we want to talk about [01:07:25] shape and size and density and dexterity [01:07:28] of a manufactured home community. [01:07:31] I apologize to Ms. Fierce. [01:07:32] I can't see her for the maps up here. [01:07:35] I just wanted to offer the seaforest townhomes [01:07:37] that Mr. Storky had mentioned. [01:07:39] We process that as a voluntary annexation. [01:07:42] And so it was received differently than these, [01:07:45] which would not be voluntary. [01:07:46] So I don't know if that makes a difference in his response. [01:07:51] That is a huge difference, [01:07:52] I would say, voluntary versus. [01:07:54] Once again, just looking at seaforest, [01:07:56] I'll say it one more time. [01:07:59] There has been more of a focus [01:08:00] on the west side of the county [01:08:01] in the last recent couple years, [01:08:04] but there are a heck of a lot of people [01:08:06] on this west side that are taxpayers [01:08:07] and pay a lot of taxes [01:08:09] and feel neglected by the county as a whole. [01:08:12] So I think the timing might be right to say, [01:08:14] hey, what do y'all think? [01:08:16] We were sitting in a restaurant on Main Street [01:08:21] one time when we first started the project, [01:08:23] my wife and myself, [01:08:25] and were shocked at the number of county fire trucks [01:08:29] that raced past that to get to where they needed to get. [01:08:35] If there's no one who thinks [01:08:37] that's a reasonable way to provide services. [01:08:40] So, you know, there's definitely some ways to do that. [01:08:44] And my whole thought too, [01:08:47] is if I was the person there [01:08:49] who had the heart attack that day, [01:08:52] I would pay anything for the people to get there faster. [01:08:55] Right, and one more comment. [01:08:56] I'm not opposed to Green Key Beach being, [01:08:58] or Robert K. Reese Memorial Park being in the city [01:09:01] as part of our park program, [01:09:03] but it is an expense. [01:09:05] I don't have the numbers, [01:09:06] but just by going out there with the boardwalk, [01:09:07] which is beach sand they used to bring in, [01:09:09] they haven't brought in beach sand in over 10 years. [01:09:11] It does not look like it did, you know, in years past, [01:09:14] but that is a very, very, just being the gulf front, [01:09:16] a very expensive park to maintain. [01:09:18] I'd love to have it in part of the city, [01:09:20] but it's going to take a lot of money [01:09:21] to maintain it properly. [01:09:22] I think that, without charging people, [01:09:25] come watch a sunset for 10 minutes. [01:09:27] You can look at that particular area in here [01:09:30] to see if that can be added. [01:09:31] If there's, one of the things that you learn real quick [01:09:38] under federal regulations and state statutes, [01:09:42] they're not always clear, [01:09:44] and there's different ways to interpret them. [01:09:47] If we can interpret them in a reasonable manner [01:09:50] and Pasco County agrees, then you can do it that way. [01:09:55] If they do not, then you fall back to some other position. [01:10:01] So we'll look at it and see if we can figure out a way. [01:10:04] The other issue that you mentioned [01:10:06] about some of these trailer parks and that up here, [01:10:10] I can easily why you think that's not to the best advantage [01:10:16] to be in the city, but my thoughts, [01:10:20] my experience are you leaving those, [01:10:25] they are not technical enclaves [01:10:26] because they're not surrounded by one city, [01:10:29] but they are surrounded by multiple cities, [01:10:31] so they are not, you know. [01:10:33] And 14, the trailer park I referenced, [01:10:35] my grandparents lived when I was very, very small. [01:10:38] I'd love to have it in the city. [01:10:38] I'd love to go into our code enforcement and clean it out, [01:10:40] but my point being that, along with all these other numbers, [01:10:43] it's going to cost money to do so, [01:10:45] and that's where I'm looking for something in return. [01:10:46] I mean, we could probably, [01:10:48] just driving through there the other day, [01:10:49] just on the outside, just a rough number, [01:10:54] maybe 60, 70% would fall under some of our current guidelines. [01:10:59] And, you know, it's similar to what's on Golden Pond, [01:11:03] I keep remembering. [01:11:04] Golden Pond. [01:11:05] Golden Pond, right. [01:11:06] Both that trailer park and Golden Pond, [01:11:08] I think are great potential development sites [01:11:10] for elevated townhomes and upper-scale [01:11:15] home building opportunities, [01:11:17] but like I said, you got to get it cleared out, [01:11:20] and that takes money to do. [01:11:22] I understand exactly what you're saying, [01:11:24] and I agree with you. [01:11:28] The best that we can do is look at [01:11:30] those particular area in here,

   This text was generated automatically from the meeting video. It is not a verbatim or official record. For exact wording, consult the video or the city clerk.

3. 3

   Discussion on Parklets (7:00 p.m. Time Certain)

   discussed

   Council held a work session to discuss the concept of parklets (sidewalk extensions into parking spaces for public seating/use). Staff presented a PowerPoint covering history, design considerations, benefits, and challenges, prompted in part by Lisa and Chris Bolster of SIP on Grand Boulevard who had submitted materials and constructed a parklet believing they had approval. No formal action was taken; the item was a discussion/introduction.

   📍7124 Meand Court📍7210 Jasmine Drive📍Grand Boulevard📍Van Doren / Leisure Lane area🏢Habitat for Humanity🏢SIP👤Bob Smallwood👤Chris Bolster👤Councilman Phillips👤Joan Hook👤Lisa Bolster👤Mrs. Fierce👤Ms. Manns#Annexation Phase One#CRA#Ciclovia#Parking Day#Parklets#Safety Harbor parklet program

   ▶ Jump to 1:11:31 in the video

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   [01:11:32] and see if that's able to be done. [01:11:36] We'll look at it purely from a technical standpoint, [01:11:39] which is we've done everything. [01:11:42] I do my best to keep politics out of the work we do. [01:11:46] It's impossible, but we do our best. [01:11:49] So, you know, what we understand is that [01:11:52] we are here to provide you information. [01:11:55] Thank you. [01:11:56] Well, just so that I understand, [01:11:57] I'm sorry, when I started that question, [01:11:58] so what we're looking at is, [01:12:00] if you were just to draw a line to the left of South Road, [01:12:04] that area there would then be considered [01:12:06] part of this yellow color and part of phase one. [01:12:09] That's what we're looking to do, is that correct? [01:12:10] Yeah, I think we need to follow the waterway, [01:12:13] but your point of extending South Road, yes. [01:12:16] And then the reason is, is that's a whole land mass [01:12:19] that should stay together. [01:12:21] Right, yeah, just for the ease of that. [01:12:22] Okay, thank you. [01:12:24] We've got some folks in the audience [01:12:25] that have been very patiently sitting here listening, [01:12:29] one of whom is a realtor. [01:12:31] So I would ask if any of the folks in the audience [01:12:34] have any input or comments on what they've heard [01:12:37] at this meeting. [01:12:42] Come on down, please. [01:12:46] Yeah. [01:12:54] When you, up at the mic, Joan, please. [01:13:00] Hi, I'm Joan Hook, 7210 Jasmine Drive. [01:13:05] I'm just curious, I don't mean to be, [01:13:09] I hope this won't come across as being negative. [01:13:13] I'm really excited about this, [01:13:15] especially the business about the Van Doren, [01:13:19] Leisure Lane area, and getting seaforest in. [01:13:22] I'm familiar with that area. [01:13:25] But we say that we have so many blighted areas in the city. [01:13:33] Wouldn't we want to clean those up [01:13:35] before we took on Leisure Lane and Van Doren? [01:13:38] I mean, talking about manpower, person power, [01:13:43] I mean, is that a problem? [01:13:45] I think I can answer that, [01:13:48] and Chief might want to weigh in on this as well. [01:13:52] Part of the problem, specifically, [01:13:53] with Leisure Lane, Van Doren, [01:13:55] is that it has been a hub or a nest [01:14:01] for a criminal element that then walks a block [01:14:05] and is right into the middle of New Port Richey. [01:14:08] Plus, it's completely surrounded, [01:14:10] which makes it difficult for the county folks [01:14:13] to go in and enforce it, [01:14:14] because they have to drive through us to get to it. [01:14:18] And it's this little tiny area that just is nasty [01:14:22] and needs to be cleaned up. [01:14:23] And the thought was, if we were able to annex it, [01:14:26] that then we could take primary responsibility for it [01:14:30] and see that it gets cleaned up. [01:14:32] The bigger story is a little more complicated, [01:14:35] because we've got Habitat for Humanity [01:14:38] that's currently buying up properties in there. [01:14:41] They're getting ready to build, [01:14:43] I think, Ms. Mann, starting this summer sometime? [01:14:47] That's correct, Mr. Mayor. [01:14:48] They are going to go through a zoning change in that area. [01:14:54] And the thought was, if they can get the county [01:14:57] to go along with the zoning change, [01:15:00] that comes in and starts building real houses instead of mobile homes to replace the mobiles [01:15:05] that are in there, then we annex it and can go in and do the ongoing code enforcement [01:15:13] and police supervision to make sure that it stays a nice place for new families to come [01:15:17] into. [01:15:18] Ms. Hook, in my opinion, has a very good point. [01:15:21] Aside from Van Doren and Leisure Lane, I don't know the names of the two or three streets, [01:15:26] but for instance, north of Massachusetts off of Congress, northeast, that northeast [01:15:30] quadrant there, there was a gang murder a few years back. [01:15:33] I know our code enforcement recently went in there and with our police department, right? [01:15:39] We got it in our city manager's report, but I can't remember how many dozens of citations [01:15:44] of violations and potentially more slum and blighted properties we're looking to possibly [01:15:49] demolish. [01:15:50] But you are absolutely right. [01:15:51] We do have problem areas that aren't just Van Doren and Leisure that we are addressing. [01:15:57] That's my whole point for needing more in return because we're stretched in right now [01:16:01] cleaning up our current areas. [01:16:03] We're adding more. [01:16:04] So what are we going to get in return for taking those problem areas from the county? [01:16:06] It's a very valid point. [01:16:07] Yeah. [01:16:08] Ms. Hook, you're right. [01:16:09] The other issue is that to qualify the city to have the depth and the breadth of the size [01:16:19] of our existing CRA, we had to call areas in the city blighted. [01:16:26] So we automatically put a stigma on them so that we could qualify and make our CRA as [01:16:32] big as humanly possible within the constraints of the law that was in place back in 2000, [01:16:40] 2001. [01:16:41] And we ended up in the early 2000s taking the money that we generated off of that CRA [01:16:51] and buying other properties or developing a rec center and paying the debt service on [01:16:58] it. [01:16:59] So ideally those dollars, and at one time they were fairly substantial, would have been [01:17:04] coming back in. [01:17:05] They could have been out there taking care of those blighted areas. [01:17:08] Now we're playing catch up. [01:17:09] And your point's absolutely right. [01:17:12] We're looking at these others, and now we're going to add them to the top. [01:17:15] And does it make good sense to do that? [01:17:19] That's the other question that I see. [01:17:21] Well thank you. [01:17:22] I appreciate, because I was thinking at the resources that are required in the study or [01:17:30] projected additional people, it seems like we're going to need more code enforcement [01:17:35] people than projected. [01:17:36] We will. [01:17:37] Absolutely. [01:17:39] With C-Force, the resources basically just to have our police department and our fire [01:17:43] department service that area, now we're worried about code enforcement with C-Force. [01:17:46] Like you said, that's why I'm saying at least we need more in return if we're going to take [01:17:50] over these areas. [01:17:51] I'd love to pick up that fire department. [01:17:53] That's great. [01:17:54] Thanks. [01:17:55] Thank you, Ms. Hook. [01:17:56] Anyone else? [01:17:59] Any other comments? [01:18:00] Oh, Mr. Smallwood, please come down. [01:18:04] Bob Smallwood, 7124 Meand Court. [01:18:07] I don't want to take much of your time, but I see what Van Buren's doing. [01:18:12] The county's working with us on that, so they're helping with the problem area. [01:18:15] I really appreciate the discussion, because there's going to be one or two of us up there. [01:18:20] I don't want to inherit a big problem where there's a lot of financial strain on the city [01:18:24] to incorporate some of these areas. [01:18:26] So I appreciate the conversation and looking at really what makes sense to bring into the [01:18:31] city, what we can afford to do, as well as try to go after some of the other areas that [01:18:35] really would generate some tax revenue. [01:18:38] So I appreciate the conversation. [01:18:39] Thank you. [01:18:42] Any final remarks? [01:18:44] I learned a lot. [01:18:45] I appreciate the study, and we've made our points, I think, tonight, but it was very [01:18:51] enlightening. [01:18:52] Thank you. [01:18:53] Thank you. [01:18:54] Councilwoman? [01:18:55] Yes. [01:18:56] Yeah. [01:18:57] I'm excited about this, and I'm hoping that we can move forward on our conversation today, [01:19:04] because having lived here for over 40 years, the annexation question comes up periodically, [01:19:10] and I'm excited that we are where we are right now with the folks that are on the council [01:19:16] that will not let this go. [01:19:19] So I'm just encouraging you to continue moving forward on with the sound thinking that we [01:19:25] just expressed this evening, where we need to continue to have leverage with the county [01:19:30] before we let it take in all of what we were looking at. [01:19:34] Thank you. [01:19:35] Councilman Phillips, any final observations? [01:19:36] Thank you, Mr. Mayor. [01:19:37] Thank you very much. [01:19:38] In that case, I'm going to recess the work session until 7 o'clock. [01:19:48] Next item on the agenda is discussion on parklets. [01:19:52] Ms. Mance? [01:19:53] Yes, sir. [01:19:54] Mr. Mayor, the purpose of this work session this evening is to fully introduce to you [01:19:59] and gain your perspective on the concept of parklets. [01:20:03] To begin, I think it's appropriate to give you a bit of history on where we are in the [01:20:09] vetting process in respect to this matter. [01:20:13] Lisa and Chris Bolster have been proponents of the parklet concept for some time now. [01:20:21] They approached the Development Department last year and inquired as to the possibility [01:20:27] of the city adopting a program. [01:20:33] In that respect, they indicated that they'd very much like to establish a parklet adjacent [01:20:39] to their business, SIP, on Grand Boulevard. [01:20:44] A parklet, for those of you that don't know, is typically an extension of sidewalk. [01:20:50] It frequently extends out into a public parking space and it offers residents and visitors [01:20:58] alike an opportunity to sit and enjoy a surrounding area. [01:21:03] It typically consists of seats or some form of table and are intended to accommodate a [01:21:11] limited form of assembly. [01:21:16] In that respect, at that time the staff started to consider some of the placement, design, [01:21:23] and operational perspectives that would need to be taken into account if the city were [01:21:28] to adopt a program. [01:21:31] That process spanned many months. [01:21:34] I think, well, I'm certain that the Bolsters approached me in mid-February to determine [01:21:43] the status of the program and to, again, indicate their interest in establishing a [01:21:52] parklet, whether it would be on a pilot basis or on a more permanent basis within the city. [01:22:00] The discussions continued with the Bolsters and they were given information as to what [01:22:11] type of materials would need to be submitted in an application if that was of interest [01:22:19] to them. [01:22:20] They were given some standards by which parklets were constructed in other communities and [01:22:29] that's what we were basing our experience on because there are a lot of successful parklet [01:22:36] programs in other cities in the Florida area and then nationally as well. [01:22:44] They in fact submitted materials to the city for review in March. [01:22:54] They went on, as most of you are aware, to construct a parklet in the downtown area. [01:23:01] I have to say that there was no malintent on their part. [01:23:07] They thought that by submitting materials that they had received an approval. [01:23:16] In government, though, as all of you know, there's sometimes more process to it than [01:23:22] what maybe needs to be the case and tonight we're going to talk about parklets and I'm [01:23:30] going to allow Mrs. Fierce to present to you a PowerPoint that we put together that [01:23:38] talks about them in general terms and then additionally talks about some of the advantages [01:23:44] and the disadvantages or I think we called them challenges and benefits of parklets in [01:23:52] a downtown area so that everyone has the benefit of the same information. [01:23:57] Thank you, Ms. Manns. [01:23:59] Good evening, council and audience. [01:24:01] We're going to introduce the parklet concept tonight and we're going to start with, as [01:24:06] Ms. Manns mentioned, what a parklet is and I think you all probably by now know what [01:24:10] it is but it's an extension of a sidewalk and it's a place where you can rest, work [01:24:15] and play. [01:24:18] We did some research about where they are currently and in the Tampa Bay region there [01:24:25] really isn't any good experience to draw from. [01:24:29] Safety Harbor is considering parklets at a public meeting they're having later on in [01:24:35] April. [01:24:36] St. Petersburg and Tampa, no surprise the bigger cities, have introduced the concepts [01:24:43] and have either adopted ordinances or are nearing those but the other local jurisdictions [01:24:49] that we contacted either didn't have any interest in them or they felt like they didn't [01:24:55] have staff that could monitor or administer the program. [01:25:00] It's probably no surprise that the larger cities in the state currently have them in [01:25:05] sometimes multiple locations in the city. [01:25:08] The history of the parklet would take us back to San Francisco where there were temporary [01:25:15] installations that were creating pedestrian space into parking spaces. [01:25:21] They first appeared in 2005 when an art and design studio converted a single metered parking [01:25:29] space into a temporary two hour park in the downtown. [01:25:34] It featured a lawn made of artificial turf, a shade tree and a bench and then the first [01:25:39] one that was actually a permanent installation occurred in 2010. [01:25:45] There is a national event known as Parking Day that was developed as a result of that [01:25:51] installation where for a day spaces are turned into urban parks. [01:25:58] That is a little bit of the history of where they came. [01:26:01] Tonight we're going to talk about several considerations that should be discussed when [01:26:07] thinking about parklets. [01:26:09] The eight that you see on the screen will cover tonight including location, duration, [01:26:14] activity, design, safety, responsibility, experimentation and then some other thoughts. [01:26:21] The first consideration is location. [01:26:24] Parklets can occupy former parking spaces, street medians, traffic triangles, repurposed [01:26:29] travel lanes and parking lots. [01:26:32] They're typically located where there's surplus roadway or surplus parking. [01:26:38] They should be driven by physical site characteristics including low traffic speeds on the road, [01:26:46] existing pedestrian activity and uses that are supportive of pedestrians. [01:26:51] They should be near businesses that are open during normal or extended hours and they would [01:26:57] benefit greatly if they were near shade and existing lights. [01:27:03] In this plan view the street has a 25 mile per hour speed limit. [01:27:08] The parklet is situated away from the corner. [01:27:11] It's not conflicting with any utilities or fire hydrants and there's a tree. [01:27:18] Duration of time should also be considered when looking at parklets. [01:27:24] They can be approved for a few hours like our Ciclovia event where we closed down Grand [01:27:29] Boulevard. [01:27:31] They can be a one day event like the parking day demonstrations that are held in other [01:27:36] parts of the country or they can be year round installations. [01:27:43] All that we researched showed that parklets were usually limited to a specified time frame. [01:27:51] For example, for a one year duration and a renewal period could be applied for by the [01:27:57] sponsor. [01:28:00] Activity is another part of considering a parklet and obviously it can be active, passive [01:28:06] or in some cases just parking. [01:28:09] These slides seem to show some active parklets. [01:28:14] The one on the top shows some yoga. [01:28:16] We've got some artistic talents and we've got some foosball. [01:28:21] This one is showing a performance based type of parklet. [01:28:26] The passive recreation would be for those who are interested in just enjoying relaxation [01:28:33] or kind of hanging out. [01:28:35] And then others we found where they have been turned into a bike corral for the purpose [01:28:41] of just locating bikes near businesses. [01:28:46] The fourth consideration is design and within that design criteria we're going to talk about [01:28:51] aesthetics, the platform, the height, shade, seating, landscaping, signs, color and lighting. [01:29:00] In terms of aesthetics, I guess you need to consider whether you like some of the things [01:29:08] that you see in these pictures because these are actual implemented parklets. [01:29:13] Do you like the reuse of shipping containers, which is the picture on the top? [01:29:17] Would you be interested in having a flatbed truck turned into a parklet? [01:29:23] On the bottom left, one community we found was allowing a very creative approach where [01:29:30] they were allowing a parklet that was inspired by a historic vessel. [01:29:37] Height is another design consideration. [01:29:41] Some parklets have elevated features. [01:29:44] It would be appropriate to consider how much mass would be appropriate in an elevated feature [01:29:50] or the height of a parklet and what happens if it blocks the view of a business. [01:29:57] In terms of the actual platform or the base of the parklet, [01:30:00] aparcolate, it's important to make sure that it's resistant to slippage and it's durable and it's easily dismantled. [01:30:09] When it comes to shade, if there's not natural shade near aparcolate, [01:30:15] consider whether [01:30:17] permitting the use of cloth shade structures, [01:30:20] metal shade, or just [01:30:23] temporary umbrellas. [01:30:25] In terms of seating as part of the design approach, [01:30:29] it's [01:30:31] interesting, the photo on the upper left shows some very interesting and creative [01:30:36] seating and I, sorry we covered up the guy's face as looking at it because he's in kind of, he doesn't understand what he's looking [01:30:43] at. It was my understanding when I when I read it. He didn't know whether they were seats or something else. [01:30:47] So it is a very creative approach though. [01:30:51] The one on the bottom left, I'm pretty sure was during a trial period, but bear in mind that [01:30:57] seating could take many shapes including [01:30:59] tires. [01:31:01] Most times, however, seating is either fixed or it's movable or it's a mixture of [01:31:08] both. [01:31:09] When parklet sponsors use the unsecured [01:31:14] movable furniture, they're typically required to [01:31:17] secure it after business hours. [01:31:21] Landscaping is another design feature to be considered. Landscaping is what makes these parklets green. [01:31:28] Consider if you would like to require it for every parklet. [01:31:32] And in some cases we found in the middle right picture, they were created just for landscaping. [01:31:38] So it's like making a landscape island out of an old parking space. [01:31:43] Some landscaping, however, has not been as well maintained as others and that's another big consideration. [01:31:48] That's another big consideration if you're going to require it. [01:31:54] Signs is [01:31:55] another design feature that should be considered. [01:31:59] All of the parklets that we've researched required that a sign be located on it that says it's open to the public [01:32:06] because it's part of the right-of-way, but there's other signs that you may want to consider [01:32:11] as well. [01:32:14] Color was another consideration we found when we looked at [01:32:18] the history of parklets. If you don't define a color palette, that's fine, but anything is possible. [01:32:25] Some towns, again, didn't have any restrictions. Others [01:32:30] specified that [01:32:31] perhaps the platform itself and the seating be of an earth color and then you could do whatever you wanted with the [01:32:38] accessories including the tables and chairs and the umbrellas. [01:32:42] Lighting is another element of consideration. The top one [01:32:48] shows what it could look like during a very festive holiday and then the other two on the bottom are probably during normal [01:32:56] times of the year. [01:32:58] Safety is another big feature that deserves lots of attention. [01:33:03] The one on the right shows that they turn the parklet into a space where you could [01:33:10] stand up like a stand-up bar and then the one on the left shows a really good example of not good safety features where cones [01:33:17] really aren't going to keep people safe in the parklet or keep the car safe either. [01:33:22] But safety features should include [01:33:26] posts, wheel stops, and reflective tape for drivers so they can see as they approach the parklet. [01:33:37] Considerations should also be made to the setback of the parklet from the [01:33:41] traffic lane. In this case, this town either required or they had the advantage of a wide right-of-way where they [01:33:49] had the [01:33:50] pavement marked which was a [01:33:53] pretty significant area between the [01:33:56] traveling and the actual start of the parklet. [01:34:01] In terms of responsibility and maintenance, [01:34:05] the sponsor would need to make sure that the parklet is cleaned, all the trash is removed, that [01:34:11] the drainage is properly working underneath it, if there's any graffiti it gets removed, and also to make sure that they're enforcing it for the use of the public and [01:34:22] also including the [01:34:24] ADA [01:34:26] accessibility [01:34:28] concerns. [01:34:29] We looked and there's been quite a few towns and institutes [01:34:34] that have [01:34:37] included the program. They've actually just done some trial runs. [01:34:41] The picture on the right is in the City of Safety Harbor. [01:34:47] As I mentioned before, they're considering the parklet program right now. A [01:34:52] business owner created the parklet you see in that picture [01:34:55] outside of her business which is on 4th Street, which is not on Main Street. It's not the main thoroughfare, but it's a parallel street. [01:35:03] And it was considered as a trial run as the program again is being debated. [01:35:10] So as Ms. Manns mentioned, we did take a look at what we thought were some of the benefits of parklets. [01:35:19] Obviously they provide an expansion of sidewalks for other uses, they benefit pedestrians, [01:35:26] they create a community space where maybe there isn't one, [01:35:30] they actually do add some green where there's currently gray or asphalt. [01:35:35] They can be a much better use than underused parking. [01:35:40] They can be an attractor to outsiders as part of a hit factor for maybe Millennials. [01:35:47] They add an economic value which could include stimulating new businesses in the area where they're located. [01:35:55] We also took a look at the challenges that we found were associated with parklets and [01:36:01] they included safety for users and drivers and the area. [01:36:07] They are often open, you know, 24 hours a day. [01:36:11] And some folks that I've read had become concerned about them being hot spots for homeless, [01:36:17] illegal activity, and late-night rowdiness. [01:36:21] The design, if not [01:36:23] implemented well, could be turned into something that's, I guess, tacky instead of tasteful. [01:36:31] There could be a real or perceived sense of inequity among business owners about, he gets his, but I don't get mine. [01:36:39] If there's a lack of maintenance, obviously that'll make the park look badly. [01:36:46] Another big issue is the removal of parking from an area that already has a shortage. [01:36:52] We did do a parking study, or had a parking study, performed not too long ago that was presented to Council and [01:36:59] it did show that there is a deficiency in the downtown [01:37:04] which was based on [01:37:06] a look at the total of existing spaces versus the total required spaces and that showed a [01:37:14] 538 space shortfall. [01:37:16] We are expecting that phase two of that parking study, which is being prepared right now by the consultant, may [01:37:25] suggest that we amend our code, which could mean that [01:37:30] we may not have such a shortfall if we amended the code to not require as many parking spaces. [01:37:37] The other challenges that we noted were some pedestrians could be confused about whether the space is used for [01:37:44] the public or it's for the private entity nearby. [01:37:49] Monitoring can be a challenge for the sponsor if they don't have enough staff, and then if you defined a [01:37:56] parklet as a park versus a right-of-way, [01:37:59] it certainly could impact whether alcohol is permitted in the parklet itself. [01:38:07] Bless you. [01:38:09] We wanted to have a consideration of some other questions that we couldn't frankly answer, [01:38:16] but we wanted to pose for consideration tonight as part of this discussion. [01:38:22] For example, how many parklets should be permitted on one block? How many spaces can be used? [01:38:27] Should business owners get the parklet in front of their store? [01:38:31] What if someone wants a parklet in front of a competitor's business? [01:38:35] What types of organizations could operate a parklet? [01:38:39] Should Wi-Fi be allowed or amplified noise? [01:38:44] Are [01:38:45] parklets desirable if they're going to interfere with a future multi-use path route? [01:38:49] And how will we ultimately determine the success of a parklet? [01:38:55] So with those comments, I'm done talking and I bet there's a few people that want to [01:39:02] comment on that. Thank you for listening to me. [01:39:09] Mr. Mayor, could we make some statements first so that we can kind of clear the air so that we can have an [01:39:17] understanding or do we want to [01:39:22] engage and then I'm just I'm asking an open-ended question. [01:39:27] Okay, I thought just to help put it into context and I have not talked to him [01:39:33] so I may be putting him on the spot, [01:39:35] but Frank Starkey was the one that had originally brought this up at People Places and I thought if he had any opening [01:39:43] comments that would be fine. Otherwise, we can go through and [01:39:47] do some comments from Council. Well, if Councilman Phillips wants to make some initial comments, I'm absolutely fine with that. [01:39:53] I mean, you know, if you want to bring the People Places Mr. Starkey up, I have no problem with that. [01:40:00] I just wanted to understand what the [01:40:03] dynamics were going to be. Absolutely. Because I think that there's a lot of people that already think people have their minds made up and [01:40:09] we've gone through this and other [01:40:12] presentations in the past and we've spent a lot of time letting people know that we're not that close-minded. [01:40:19] We're not [01:40:21] unappreciative. We have all those because we've been down the medical marijuana track. [01:40:26] We've been down the parking in the yard track and we know that there's a couple of those. [01:40:31] Oh, and the most famous one in the last six years is when we determined we wanted to do our own [01:40:39] animal control and [01:40:41] I don't need to go back down that because there's passions all over the place and it became very [01:40:47] it became very adamant that there wasn't any winnable [01:40:52] position. So I know Frank has a great deal of information. [01:40:56] I just want to be able so that we can kind of understand where we are and then that might help them better [01:41:04] present the other options that are available. Okay, either way works for me. Frank, come on down. [01:41:09] I mean, that'd be great. Thanks. [01:41:15] Since it's his fault that we got kicked off on this in the topic in the first place. [01:41:21] Thank you, thank you for the opportunity Mr. Mayor and Council. [01:41:24] I [01:41:26] spoke on this at the council meeting a couple weeks ago, so I don't want to reiterate what I said there, but [01:41:33] and we did another talk about town specifically about tactical urbanism and parklets this week. I don't know if any of you were able to [01:41:40] watch the [01:41:42] streaming version of that. I think we have some audio problem with it, so I'm sorry about that. [01:41:47] There's technical difficulties in this modern age we live in but [01:41:51] the basic idea of tactical urbanism, I mean of tactical urbanism, is to address [01:41:58] in a experimental, but not a rogue way, [01:42:05] deficiencies or things that can be improved in the urban and public space. So when it comes to parklets [01:42:14] specifically [01:42:16] they're, in almost all cases I can think of, there to suggest an alternative vision for a [01:42:24] for a streetscape. [01:42:27] One thing that's become, that's got me really scratching my head, is why Grand Boulevard is wider than Main Street. [01:42:34] The travel lanes in front of, in the basically everything from on Grand Boulevard from [01:42:41] Main Street all the way down to Montana [01:42:43] you have three lanes. You've got two through lanes and a turn lane. [01:42:48] You don't have that situation on Main Street, which has far more traffic and handles it just fine, except that the only turn lanes are at [01:42:56] Madison and at Grand. So it works fine. In fact, I think it probably doesn't even need those turn lanes, [01:43:02] but certainly seems questionable why there are turn lanes, continuous turn lanes on [01:43:09] Grand Boulevard. [01:43:10] Dimensionally, the space between the parking spaces on Grand Boulevard is as wide as the [01:43:17] travel lanes and parking spaces on Main Street. In other words, you can take Main Street, the cross-section [01:43:22] that's in front of my office, and put it on Grand, where the parklet is, and [01:43:29] pull the [01:43:31] sidewalks out all the way to the face of [01:43:33] where's, what currently is the edge of the travel lane. Am I following, does that make sense? In other words, [01:43:39] where the parking is currently [01:43:41] should be sidewalk. So the idea of a parklet is to say, hey, [01:43:46] this is what it would look, what it could look like if it was sidewalk. Now, if it was sidewalk, [01:43:49] it wouldn't have all that construction on it, but you kind of have to have that construction to create some separation [01:43:55] spatially and visually and [01:43:57] psychologically from the moving cars on the street, but [01:44:01] general, but basically it's a, it's a proposal for, this is, this is how our street could and should be better. [01:44:08] So I think it's worth the city [01:44:11] as it's contemplating [01:44:13] improving Grand Boulevard all the way down to the river, which I understand is in discussion, in preliminary discussions now. [01:44:20] Think of this as a, as a [01:44:22] experiment that gives us an opportunity to look at that and think about that long-term. So, because the idea of tactical urbanism is [01:44:31] that they are tactics [01:44:33] towards a strategy, the strategy being some, a bigger goal. So I think the bigger goal should be improving all of Grand Boulevard. [01:44:41] You could move all of that parking in, give everybody a wide sidewalk, [01:44:46] have lots of outdoor seating on there, on the sidewalk, in sidewalk cafe [01:44:51] seating arrangements, like every great downtown has, and [01:44:56] then, and we'd have a fabulous [01:44:58] mainstream, [01:45:00] Boulevard to go with Main Street. Currently the sidewalks on Grand are so [01:45:04] narrow they're they're just they're just too narrow to accommodate much life and [01:45:08] life is what we want on our sidewalks and our streets. So the parklet is a [01:45:13] proposal for that. I think it went and so that's that's where I see the parklets [01:45:20] coming from and where they're heading towards what the goal of them is. I think [01:45:25] there are there are this this road has been trod a lot of times by a lot of [01:45:30] different jurisdictions. I don't think we need to reinvent much here there's we [01:45:36] don't need to reinvent anything we just need to take some some good practices [01:45:42] from other jurisdictions and come up with some sensible guidelines including [01:45:45] all the things that that Lisa listed there for considerations which was a [01:45:50] that's a very good comprehensive list I think that gives you your framework you [01:45:55] can go through that list and check off there's there's a way to address every [01:46:00] single one of those and it doesn't you know it doesn't have it doesn't have to [01:46:05] be a difficult or gut-wrenching thing to do and we're not having to I mean for [01:46:11] God's sakes please don't hire a study. I don't think you need to do that. I mean [01:46:18] you can go on the internet and get enough you know links and everything [01:46:25] else and because everybody's done the legwork ahead of you so yeah and I do [01:46:31] have some comments Mr. Mayor. Okay thank you Mr. Starkey with that with that [01:46:35] preface Councilman Phelps take it away. Thanks it's extremely ironic because [01:46:40] Ms. Manns can attest to this the Friday before you built it I asked I [01:46:47] specifically had a conversation with her that said Ms. Manns could you please [01:46:51] make sure that the parklet issue happens when the new council is after the new [01:46:57] council is sat because I recognize being here because back on my previous time on [01:47:05] council we had to deal with adult use in the city of New Port Richey with Joe [01:47:11] Redner the whole thing and thank God we didn't have the internet back then [01:47:15] because all the definitions of all the things that were in adult use and it was [01:47:20] a six-month process so I recognized that this was a new idea that was coming that [01:47:26] needed to have really the five people that were going to be here for the next [01:47:30] two to three years to collectively work on it that didn't happen and I'm okay [01:47:36] with that because I'm happy to give you my opinion now I'll give it to you [01:47:39] before I leave and I know I'll give it to you after I leave which is fine but I [01:47:44] did recognize it was just ironic that on Friday and then on Monday I call I say [01:47:50] what's going on and so I had exchanges with her first of all in looking at all [01:47:56] the stuff and looking the information that you brought out and then when you [01:47:59] go online and look at all the links and I looked at the one on Philadelphia [01:48:04] specifically about how they had addressed it and what they were looking [01:48:08] at and then you can go on another link that pulls up all 42 different ones in [01:48:13] the city of San Francisco if you want to use those as some benchmarks that's [01:48:17] fine so to really express my point and Frank you hit on a couple other things [01:48:24] in your presentation that fall into where and exactly what I believe needs [01:48:29] to be a comprehensive approach to it but at the same point I support the parklets [01:48:34] I think that they would be a great test a great experiment for city and in New Port Richey because we have absolutely experimented and been on the forefront [01:48:46] of five or six other things within West Pasco within the Tampa Bay Area when it [01:48:54] comes to to gardening when it comes to these other items so I'm supportive of [01:48:59] that and right out of the gate I'd love to see a two-year program that had a [01:49:05] sunset into it so you can evaluate it because we can't evaluate ourselves on a [01:49:09] year especially when it comes to funding special events we've gone out and made [01:49:13] it a two-year process and I'll let all of the designers and all the people that [01:49:20] want to get into that because I'm not allowed to do that at home and I'm not [01:49:24] going to do it from up here but I think there ought to be seven locations and I [01:49:29] think there ought to be in one in front of Main Street landings one in front of [01:49:34] rights and I think it could be down to where you could do this space before you [01:49:39] get in front of rights to make it for golf car parking and for for bicycle [01:49:44] parking in that space I think you could do it in front of sips or a combination [01:49:49] in that area I think you could do it another one on the east side of Grand [01:49:53] Boulevard you could do it you could bridge the one over between the ice [01:49:58] cream and the end of bakery and use that concrete area because I don't know about [01:50:04] you but when people park in that area it becomes more of a obstacle of turning [01:50:10] and all those things there and then perfectly honestly I'd love to see two [01:50:13] considered in front of residents at Orange Lake because I think that gives [01:50:17] you that gives you that gives you consistency through the to the deal in [01:50:21] conjunction with that we we have to get the second phase of this parking plan in [01:50:26] place and we definitely have to expand at least three parking areas in the city [01:50:31] of New Port Richey because we're not ready to do a a high-rise garage yet [01:50:36] maybe someday but we need to look at the parking lot that we have control of [01:50:42] behind on Bank Street and Lafayette and basically close that road and expand [01:50:49] that parking feature there so that feels back to what you're losing on grand I [01:50:54] also think that you ought to do the parking lot that backs up to the church [01:50:58] and over off of Adams and I believe it's Pennsylvania with the cut street [01:51:02] that creates a hazard when you're going to the church and then finally because [01:51:07] we haven't funded we have dollars available in the budget because we're [01:51:13] not funding our any phase on the CRA with Main Street landings this year or I [01:51:21] don't know where the fire department funding is going to be for that [01:51:24] particular that project we ought to look at acquiring the block of land on [01:51:31] Florida Adams and Jefferson which backs up the City Hall right here that would [01:51:38] back up to the residents at Orange Lake it would also filter over to rights and [01:51:42] everything off of Grand Boulevard or should be off of Main Street so I see [01:51:49] that on Grand Boulevard I believe we need to take those two lanes that are [01:51:54] coming between the bridge and Delaware and turn them into an expanded one lane [01:51:59] and create the second lane that has more of a pedestrian feel and that allows for [01:52:06] golf carts and bikes and you're still going to have some challenges with [01:52:11] delivering the the mail but you'll work that out because we're creative and then [01:52:16] finally the demonstration park that was nice to see see it go up then obviously [01:52:22] I got to see it as we rode by it during Chasco Fiesta and in the street parade [01:52:27] and what dynamics that put into place it did create a little bit of a disruption [01:52:32] because it happened so quickly and it just kind of was there and it was open [01:52:38] and in my case it was it was it was illegal it wasn't malice but it was [01:52:44] illegal and unfortunately to me it created some sunshine law questions that [01:52:50] are going to need to be investigated before there's going to be the [01:52:53] opportunity for everybody to participate through the process and that's because [01:52:58] in my mind I need to understand that people that were there on that Monday [01:53:05] night where everything's at because I don't want and ever have one to have a [01:53:09] vote where there's a conflict of interest that that somebody can come [01:53:13] back and have that vote rescinded and that happened the same thing on the the [01:53:19] street payment program and also with some other conflicts of interest that [01:53:26] council people have had when we've been here and we haven't we've declared them [01:53:31] and we haven't left the dais so that's where I'm at on the parklets right out [01:53:36] of the gate and I just think that collectively we've done a good job of [01:53:41] understanding and trying to be a little bit on the forefront of those and those [01:53:47] are my comments mr. mayor thank you very much [01:53:50] councilman mr. Driscoll do you see any issues with the sunshine law I sat [01:53:59] behind the mayor last night at the forum about three and a half feet behind them [01:54:02] didn't speak about anything that I thought we'd vote on for the city I was [01:54:06] invited by Lisa and Chris that afternoon to come out Monday night check it out [01:54:10] they're gonna see what it looked like I went out there sat on the chair the [01:54:14] mayor said about three or four feet from me there was a picture taken with us [01:54:18] with both of us there we didn't discuss the future of the parklets we didn't [01:54:22] discuss whether or not we would vote in favor of them we didn't discuss any city [01:54:25] business other and what a beautiful night it was do you see any conflict of [01:54:29] interest regarding the sunshine law my ability to vote the mayor mayor's [01:54:33] ability to vote the future no based on that no based on that mr. Driscoll but [01:54:38] let's be clear there's also the case that there was a Facebook post after it [01:54:43] wasn't public notice now that the debate was publicly noticed for a long time and [01:54:47] I'm okay with that I'm just trying to make sure that if there is a vote in the [01:54:52] future I don't want it to be rescinded I want it I want everybody to be able to [01:54:57] do that and I'm not I'm not pointing fingers I'm not accusing anybody I just [01:55:01] don't want to go if you go through the process and then somebody does file a [01:55:06] question against it then you're not and then it gets rescinded then you're [01:55:11] covering the same ground over again and we've done that periodically over the [01:55:15] years here and I would prefer not that I I'm just wanting to make sure that [01:55:20] there's that that determination is up front with all due respect that is [01:55:24] exactly what you're doing there was no violation of sunshine we didn't talk [01:55:28] about it we were invited to show up I showed up because I wanted to see what [01:55:32] the heck it was because I'd never been to a parklet before and that was the [01:55:36] extent of it period mr. Phillips councilman do you have some comments to [01:55:40] make I just comment I'm sorry I don't take what you're doing as malicious by [01:55:45] any means I understand what you're doing that's why I asked the city attorney the [01:55:48] question I don't want to have to be able to rescind the vote in the future as [01:55:51] well absolutely and I talked to the attorney about it earlier because I want [01:55:55] to make sure that that as I said the mayor the mayor seems to be offended and [01:56:00] that's fine at the end of the day I just want to make sure that that when [01:56:07] it's finished that we're all that it's it's good and over and above that that [01:56:14] you you you have a clear understanding of where we're at because we have seen [01:56:22] things turned overturned in the past I like I said I just want to make sure [01:56:26] that we were where we want to be and you can get that done for the record I'm [01:56:32] not offended I'm not either but I think you're out of line sir councilwoman [01:56:38] Lisa I just want to ask a question didn't we create a different kind of [01:56:44] parking situation in the historic downtown if I'm not mistaken I don't [01:56:47] want to say that it's shared parking but I think many years ago we were there were [01:56:54] a couple of businesses that wanted to come in and there weren't enough parking [01:56:57] spaces so we created kind of a well they're near the parking spot on [01:57:01] glorious whatever you see you know what I'm talking well also our code does [01:57:04] allow for using shared parking currently it allows for use of public parking in [01:57:10] lieu of parking on-site so if you ask what you're thinking of that's correct [01:57:14] perfect thank you so I just want to say that the evening that y'all had your [01:57:23] your that the apocalypse had its grand opening or whatever I was not able to [01:57:28] attend that I didn't really learn about it until later on in the evening but I [01:57:32] was in another meeting in the downtown so I didn't not go because I would for [01:57:38] no other reason than I already had other plans but in hindsight I probably [01:57:44] wouldn't have gone anyway because I was uncomfortable with if if I was thinking [01:57:50] that if I was were there that it would be appear as if I knew that there wasn't [01:57:55] a permit whatever I'm not faulting anybody up here I have no you know no [01:57:59] issue at all that came as a surprise that there might be a conflict with with [01:58:03] that but just so that that's on the record if I had known about it I don't [01:58:09] know that it would have attended just because of the circumstances but with [01:58:12] that said I don't want that what what happened then to overshadow why we're [01:58:16] here tonight we're this is an excellent opportunity for us to discuss do we want [01:58:22] to see this in the downtown I remember as many years ago early 90s when we did [01:58:29] the streetscape in the downtown and the and the hoop of the horror that we [01:58:35] experienced because we were thinking about closing the the portions of the [01:58:41] downtown we did that the when we first became a Main Street City I believe it [01:58:45] was the launch was the streetscape that created the kinds of parking that we [01:58:51] have in the area putting in the all of that so with any kind of change in any [01:58:56] kind of thing that's that's different there there needs to come a poor a part [01:59:02] of time that you need to get used to it the areas that the historic area that [01:59:11] Grand Boulevard and Main Street yeah the sidewalks on Main Street are awesome [01:59:15] we're between grand going east and they they just beg for and I thought that [01:59:23] when we were looking at doing these sidewalk cafe and all of that type of [01:59:27] thing that those sidewalks were excellent for that but on Grand [01:59:32] Boulevard between Nebraska and Montana those sidewalks are so narrow no one [01:59:39] knows that better than myself because for ten years we were there with an art [01:59:43] gallery having Friday night experiences and you know we we eventually brought [01:59:50] out the tables and chairs onto the sidewalk and it was the best solution [01:59:54] for the for the for the circumstances [01:59:58] the [02:00:00] That particular block would work so beautifully for that. [02:00:05] Quite frankly, and I was sharing this [02:00:07] with the city manager earlier in the week, [02:00:10] if you are heading east on Missouri, [02:00:15] as you approach Grand Boulevard, [02:00:18] there is zero visibility because of the parking [02:00:20] that is on both sides of that street at that point. [02:00:22] You have to actually come into Grand Boulevard, [02:00:26] frighteningly into the middle of it [02:00:27] before you can actually see around [02:00:29] some of the cars on either side. [02:00:31] That particular area would make, [02:00:34] and it would be ideal if we eliminated [02:00:36] the parking there completely. [02:00:38] I'm saying that, I know there might be horror [02:00:40] because some of the businesses may not want that to happen. [02:00:44] But, excuse me, that would seem like the place [02:00:48] to do something like that [02:00:49] because it would extend the sidewalk [02:00:51] and unfortunately it would eliminate some parking. [02:00:55] I didn't, I'm not going to suggest where they should be. [02:01:01] I think that the idea of the success of the program [02:01:05] would be if the businesses that want to do it [02:01:10] continue to do it because it's working for them, [02:01:12] and they wouldn't if they weren't. [02:01:15] But there is a lot of considerations. [02:01:17] I know that part of the question would be [02:01:20] who gets to have one if we were going to determine [02:01:24] that there just needed to be a certain amount of them. [02:01:28] The design of them, probably 20 something years ago, [02:01:33] almost 30 years ago when the city [02:01:35] became a Main Street city, [02:01:37] their design team came up with design guidelines [02:01:40] that we'd never adopted. [02:01:42] And it was an incredible work of art. [02:01:46] Looking to see if there's anybody here in the audience [02:01:48] that was part of that. [02:01:50] But I believe those guidelines had been handed off [02:01:54] to the city over the years. [02:01:57] And I know that they were what we looked at [02:01:59] when Laura Kincaid was doing her fence [02:02:04] because we realized we didn't even have any guidelines [02:02:09] for what kind of fencing we wanted in our downtown. [02:02:11] So as far as color palette and design, [02:02:16] I think that would be an important consideration. [02:02:18] We have a beautiful historic downtown [02:02:20] and it lends itself to, I think, a certain kind of look. [02:02:24] Not to suggest that we would want cookie cutter anything [02:02:26] in our downtown. [02:02:29] The community of merchants that we have in our downtown [02:02:34] can devise their own look and idea to a degree. [02:02:40] It's hard to regulate art or design to a degree [02:02:45] because beauty's in the eye of the beholder. [02:02:51] I think I'd like to see, [02:02:53] if we were going to move forward with this, [02:02:54] I think I would like to see some type of a period, [02:02:58] 18 months to two years perhaps, [02:03:00] of nothing that would be permanently, [02:03:04] as we were looking at some of the designs, [02:03:05] some of those designs lent themselves better [02:03:08] to a more permanent situation. [02:03:10] There's a lot to figure out with this. [02:03:13] And I'm pleased that we're having the conversation. [02:03:18] As far as how many and where, [02:03:22] some of the folks that live in our downtown, [02:03:25] I mean that have businesses in our downtown now [02:03:27] have very strong opinions about who should have them, [02:03:29] who shouldn't or why should some. [02:03:31] I heard lots of that conversation [02:03:34] over the last three, four weeks. [02:03:36] So I think that the perfect thing [02:03:40] is to start the conversation. [02:03:41] And I'm glad that all of you have, [02:03:43] so many of you have come in tonight to talk about it. [02:03:49] The, let's see, I was making some notes myself. [02:03:53] Okay, and as far as the, [02:03:56] yes, we do have a shortfall of parking in our downtown. [02:04:00] I think regardless of what we do about anything, [02:04:03] the one thing that we should suggest [02:04:05] is that the county remove their vehicles [02:04:08] from behind the health department building. [02:04:12] They have a huge parking area [02:04:14] just north of where the Board of Realtors are. [02:04:18] And I know that that has always been a problem [02:04:20] on the weekend with the theater having their people in, [02:04:23] you know, 18 to 20 parking spaces [02:04:25] and that would make a considerable difference [02:04:28] to any of the businesses, regardless of the theater, [02:04:32] but any of the businesses in the evening, [02:04:35] those spots shouldn't have to be there. [02:04:38] I think that that would be the first order of business [02:04:40] and we would probably see an interesting dynamic [02:04:43] that would happen just by having those vehicles [02:04:46] removed off of that lot and put any place else. [02:04:48] I don't know what their rules are, [02:04:50] but I believe there is a county facility up on Sunset [02:04:55] that they could be there. [02:04:56] So I just want to throw that into the mix. [02:05:00] I think that another thing to think about, [02:05:03] I believe, I'll just throw this out there, [02:05:06] but I believe that the grates in the downtown, [02:05:10] Robert is not here, I don't know who else, [02:05:12] oh, Robert, I'm sorry, you moved. [02:05:15] The city has the tree grates. [02:05:19] I know in several of them there was electricity in them. [02:05:21] I don't know where we are with that right now. [02:05:24] I know some of the problems were that they, [02:05:26] you know, because of where they were, [02:05:27] the water issues that happened, [02:05:29] but are those still available? [02:05:32] I know right now, if there's an event going on, they're. [02:05:36] They're still available. [02:05:36] We have about, I would say about 90% of them done. [02:05:39] There's a couple of them that we still need to work on. [02:05:42] The only thing that we would have to look at [02:05:45] would be if you decide the amount of parklets, [02:05:48] if you approve them, we'd have to take that [02:05:51] into consideration as far as what we were going to allow [02:05:54] for the people to use the electricity for [02:05:57] to see if the existing loads, the system could handle it. [02:06:01] But other than that, they are available. [02:06:04] Well, I think an important consideration [02:06:05] is that we really do need to hear from [02:06:08] the business community that are there now, [02:06:10] you know, because this is like, you know, [02:06:12] moving into someone's neighborhood [02:06:14] and then we're making the rules. [02:06:15] The neighborhood of businesses in that area, [02:06:19] we really do need to hear. [02:06:20] I heard from some of them, [02:06:22] and I think that that would be an important consideration [02:06:26] to help determine, you know, where they go, [02:06:28] do we want them at all, and what they should look like. [02:06:31] So, thank you. [02:06:32] Thank you. [02:06:34] I've got several concerns. [02:06:37] I think we've got some challenges with the parklets. [02:06:42] Top on my list is actually hurricanes. [02:06:46] And any parklet that we see going into the downtown [02:06:53] probably needs to be readily movable or securable [02:06:58] so that the parklet doesn't become a flying object [02:07:01] that damages other businesses in the event [02:07:03] that we get a Irma-type event coming through here. [02:07:10] Second one, and I will defer to our city attorney [02:07:14] for guidance on this. [02:07:19] If a business such as Sip or the Cigar Bar [02:07:26] or someplace else that sells alcoholic beverages [02:07:31] has people that walk out of that business [02:07:34] and go sit down in a parklet, [02:07:38] are they at risk of getting arrested? [02:07:40] And is the business itself in danger [02:07:46] of having the alcohol people from Tampa [02:07:49] come up and bust them? [02:07:50] And how do we avoid that? [02:07:52] Well, it's public property, [02:07:55] so you're gonna have control over it. [02:07:57] And currently we have ordinances [02:07:59] that restrict alcoholic beverages in public spaces. [02:08:02] So you'd have to relax those rules to allow it. [02:08:07] And then we'd have to guide you [02:08:08] on all the different problems [02:08:10] that that could potentially create. [02:08:11] Like, where is this alcohol coming from? [02:08:13] It's not necessarily coming from Sip, for instance. [02:08:16] It could be coming from Package [02:08:18] or however else someone might get it into this area. [02:08:21] And then we'd have to open up the sidewalk [02:08:23] so that people have a legal way [02:08:25] to get from the inside the business to the parklet. [02:08:29] So I think you're gonna probably find [02:08:30] that it's gonna be hard to allow alcohol, [02:08:32] at least, I would think, in the first iteration of it. [02:08:35] You'd probably wanna ease that in down the road [02:08:37] depending on how it works otherwise. [02:08:40] I think that's something we need to make sure of [02:08:42] because the last thing I want is somebody busted [02:08:44] for having a drink in their hands. [02:08:47] The other item we talked on is the lighting and power. [02:08:54] We definitely need to make sure [02:08:55] that we've got adequate power going into them. [02:09:00] Finally, I really do consider these experimental. [02:09:04] And a lot of times you try something if it works great. [02:09:07] If you don't, you do something else. [02:09:09] And I see the parklets as falling in that category. [02:09:13] That is the reason that when I got the invitation [02:09:15] to go check out the new parklet at Sip, [02:09:19] I told my wife, yeah, we're gonna go have supper. [02:09:22] We had supper at one of the local restaurants [02:09:24] and we got done there. [02:09:25] We walked over to check it out. [02:09:27] I'd never seen one and thought, okay, [02:09:29] this is something that might work in New Port Richey, [02:09:34] might not, but let's at least take a look at it. [02:09:38] We do have issues with parking. [02:09:40] Some of that is perceived. [02:09:44] Mr. Starkey told me last week [02:09:48] that he had gone around the afternoon of the boat parade [02:09:53] and had found all sorts of parallel parking available [02:09:57] in downtown New Port Richey as the boat parade was going on. [02:10:03] Part of that's because maybe we have enough space, [02:10:05] but part of it's probably also [02:10:06] because people avoid using parallel parking spaces. [02:10:09] I think that may almost be a lost ability. [02:10:15] I don't even think they do that on the driving test anymore. [02:10:20] So having a parking space that is for some period [02:10:27] of time converted into a parklet, [02:10:29] I don't see that in and of itself being a problem [02:10:34] depending on the number. [02:10:37] Mr. Phillips had indicated that he thought six [02:10:40] or seven of them might happen. [02:10:41] I'd guess the real number may be closer to three or four, [02:10:45] just roughing out my own head [02:10:48] where they might actually show up. [02:10:51] I don't see it as being a huge number. [02:10:54] I do think we have not so much a parking issue, [02:10:59] but a transportation issue. [02:11:01] And she was here earlier, [02:11:03] but apparently hasn't made it back, [02:11:05] Marie Skelton with the Ritchie Suncoast Theater. [02:11:10] And she has a legitimate issue with parking [02:11:14] and it touches on the parklet issue [02:11:18] because her clientele tends to be relatively old [02:11:22] and not in many cases capable of walking long distances [02:11:29] to get to the front of the theater. [02:11:31] And so I think we need to be creative. [02:11:36] Mario, you might wanna start beating the woods [02:11:41] to find if we've got somebody [02:11:42] that does an Uber type gym operation [02:11:47] with the overgrown golf carts that might bring people [02:11:50] up to the front of the theater [02:11:52] or to some of these other places, [02:11:53] particularly on the weekends [02:11:54] when things do get pretty busy downtown. [02:11:58] But that's a peripheral item. [02:12:01] I don't think it's directly tied [02:12:02] to the discussion of parklet per se, [02:12:05] but it's something that we need to address. [02:12:10] One of the things that I found that was of benefit [02:12:15] to the parklet that Lisa and her husband put together [02:12:19] was they had golf cart parking on one end [02:12:21] and bicycle parking on the other. [02:12:25] And it was actually in use that night, [02:12:26] which I found interesting. [02:12:30] We've got very long parking places. [02:12:36] Lisa, I don't know how they match up [02:12:38] against the federal standards, but they're big. [02:12:44] Bob Langford, who's sitting in the back of the room tonight [02:12:48] and I actually took our respective vehicles over [02:12:51] and nosed them in sideways into one of the parallel spaces [02:12:55] over by the historical society one day. [02:12:58] And there was room for two more. [02:13:01] So you could literally take one parallel parking space [02:13:05] and make four golf cart spots out of it, pretty easy. [02:13:08] Additionally, parallel parking is meant to be longer [02:13:10] and more narrow than a regular space [02:13:13] because of the maneuverability you need [02:13:14] to get in and out of them. [02:13:16] So there's some opportunities there [02:13:19] that may ameliorate the parking issue as well. [02:13:25] But I'm looking at it as let's try some things. [02:13:27] My idea of a parklet, and I've expressed this [02:13:31] to a few folks, is not so much the big construction [02:13:36] that Lisa and her husband did, [02:13:38] but would be more like a trip down to Home Depot [02:13:42] and get a roll of indoor-outdoor carpeting or AstroTurf, [02:13:46] spread it out on the parking place, [02:13:47] put some chairs and some plants on it and call it a day. [02:13:50] And I think there were a couple of pictures [02:13:52] that were very close to that in Lisa's presentation today. [02:13:56] But the idea is take it out, try it, see if it works. [02:13:59] If it does, great. [02:13:59] If it doesn't, that's fine. [02:14:02] I would not disagree with the assessment [02:14:05] that anything we do with parklets [02:14:06] probably ought to initially time limited [02:14:12] a year, 18 months, two years, [02:14:15] not real particular on the timeframe. [02:14:18] But to do much like we did with the golf cart ordinance [02:14:23] where we put it in and said, [02:14:24] hey, we're gonna revisit it after a certain period of time [02:14:30] and say, is this working? [02:14:31] Does it make sense? [02:14:33] Mr. Starkey's comment about the width of Grand Boulevard, [02:14:39] I think is a valid point. [02:14:41] Because if we start doing parklets [02:14:46] and we see that that's making a difference [02:14:47] for the business community and the walking traffic [02:14:52] in that section of town, [02:14:54] we may want to look at investing [02:14:56] in just going ahead and putting that whole street [02:14:58] on a formal. [02:15:00] diet and getting the sidewalks so they're bigger and moving everything towards the middle. [02:15:05] But that's part of that experimentation and why I think it's worth at least trying it [02:15:11] and seeing. [02:15:12] Deputy Mayor? [02:15:13] Can I just? [02:15:14] I'm sorry. [02:15:15] Of course. [02:15:16] One quick thing. [02:15:17] Mr. Driscoll, when we were doing the sidewalk cafe or the sidewalk ordinance, we were dealing [02:15:24] with public right of way as well. [02:15:28] And it seems that the result was such a constriction on the part of, you know, and that's part [02:15:37] of what I was hearing from businesses this past week is that we were just so, I don't [02:15:43] even know what word to use, but what we put them through, for lack of a better word. [02:15:49] Would we need to revisit that or employ some of that into this or is that strictly because [02:15:57] we were looking at? [02:15:58] I mean, you could. [02:15:59] I mean, you could treat them the same way as a sidewalk cafe. [02:16:01] But as was shown in Lisa's presentation, apparently for most part, they're treated as still a [02:16:09] public area, a public park, and you have a sign that says this is open to the public. [02:16:13] That's antithetical to the idea of letting one business control that space. [02:16:19] They sell only their alcohol. [02:16:20] You can't sit at their tables because you're not a customer. [02:16:24] And that's what you see in sidewalk cafes like you see in the other cities, like in [02:16:27] St. Petersburg down there, they have, those business owners have exclusive use of that [02:16:33] sidewalk and they probably sign a lease with the city and then there's indemnity and all [02:16:38] of that. [02:16:39] So that's the question is what type of a program are we talking about? [02:16:41] If we're talking about a public space, then traditionally you would not have alcohol in [02:16:48] that space because you don't allow alcohol in public spaces except at special events. [02:16:53] So that's where the dichotomy comes in. [02:16:56] Is it going to be exclusively available to that business owner that's adjacent or is [02:17:01] it going to still be open to the public? [02:17:03] And that's what you have to decide. [02:17:04] Those are some of the considerations. [02:17:06] Or could someone that bought a beer at SIP walk out and have a beer on the parklet and [02:17:10] have somebody walking by decide to sit down, not have a beer, not patronize SIP, and also [02:17:13] be able to sit there? [02:17:15] To address, you brought it up again, the Monday night, I didn't know that they didn't have [02:17:20] the final approval from the city when I went there Monday night. [02:17:22] I didn't know that the mayor was going to be there until I saw him walk out of Rosa's [02:17:27] Bistro. [02:17:28] I put a Facebook post up afterwards with some pictures of the parklet. [02:17:31] I thought it was a cool concept. [02:17:32] So I said, what a great, cool addition to downtown, got a lot of likes on it, and that [02:17:37] was about it. [02:17:38] I, for one, am very, very excited about what's happening in our downtown. [02:17:42] I'm excited about Ordinance 1. [02:17:43] I'm excited about Cody River Brewing Company coming in, Brian McKellie. [02:17:47] Wish you much success and luck. [02:17:49] I'm excited about the buzz that's been created about our downtown. [02:17:53] I'm excited about Kazoo Sushi coming in. [02:17:56] I'm excited about the optimism I'm hearing when I speak to our residents. [02:18:00] I'm excited that there's people from Pinellas and Hillsborough County coming to our downtown [02:18:05] and saying, what a cool area. [02:18:06] I didn't even know you guys had done these changes. [02:18:09] I was at Ordinance 1 last night and went in there for a beer after the forum, which, by [02:18:14] the way, all the candidates did a great job in the forum, especially fielding the first [02:18:18] question, which I thought was pretty out there, but you all did a great job and carried [02:18:22] yourselves well. [02:18:23] A buddy of mine was there with his daughter, who's early 20s, lives in downtown St. Pete [02:18:29] in a really cool, urban, trendy setting. [02:18:32] She grew up here and went to Ridgewood High School, and I said, Casey, what do you think [02:18:35] about Ordinance 1? [02:18:36] She's like, this is amazing. [02:18:37] She's like, I feel like I'm literally in downtown St. Pete. [02:18:40] I just would never imagine something like this. [02:18:43] A business of this caliber, not that our current businesses are any less caliber, but [02:18:48] that type of business with the setting and the atmosphere it's created would be in downtown [02:18:54] New Port Richey. [02:18:55] Let me just start by saying, I think some of the things we're doing are the right things. [02:19:00] I think they're working. [02:19:01] I think having people like Mr. Starkey, new business owners like the Cypress, like the [02:19:05] Bolsters, people that are moving into our city with new ideas, I think is a good thing. [02:19:12] I'm not 100% sold on the parklets myself. [02:19:15] I think they could be really cool. [02:19:17] The number one word that sticks out to me from what I've heard tonight is experimental. [02:19:22] I think when we rolled this out, I agree with Mr. Phillips, Councilman Phillips, I think [02:19:25] we should have done this first, hindsight being 20-20, had a sit-down discussion open [02:19:31] to the public, and I'm very, very eager to hear what the folks in the audience have to [02:19:35] say because I'm sure there's people in favor and I'm sure there's people against the parklets. [02:19:39] That being said, there's a lot of cool aspects about them that I think could help make downtown [02:19:45] New Port Richey stand out even more as a new, urban, trendy environment that are going to [02:19:50] help attract the people we want living here to Main Street landings, to the central, to [02:19:56] these new spaces that we're building. [02:20:00] I'm excited when I walk down the hall coming down here from dinner and I see a golf cart [02:20:03] parked out front. [02:20:04] Two and a half years ago, I would have thought, who would think people would be taking their [02:20:07] golf carts to a city council meeting? [02:20:10] There's a lot of cool things that are being done, not just because of us up here, but [02:20:14] because of the community, because of ideas from the public, because of hard work by staff [02:20:19] that I think are really working and starting to separate New Port Richey from just the [02:20:24] same old downtown New Port Richey. [02:20:26] We have awesome, awesome businesses that have been here for decades that continue to thrive [02:20:31] and have had a following and I think are going to continue to do well and I think they're [02:20:36] going to work well with the new businesses going in, but I just think we do need to be [02:20:40] receptive to new ideas. [02:20:42] Once again, the word that sticks out to me is experimental. [02:20:45] I don't even know if two years might be too much time. [02:20:48] I'd be good trying it for six, eight months, maybe even 12 months max and then getting [02:20:53] feedback. [02:20:54] One thing I do like, I did a lot of research online. [02:20:58] I looked at a lot of parklets throughout the world, actually. [02:21:01] They're not just in the US or in other urban areas throughout the world. [02:21:04] One aspect that I do really, really like is the landscaping aspect. [02:21:07] A lot of the parklets that I saw that were done right have some really, really cool landscaping [02:21:11] and planters that just bring a green look to the sidewalk. [02:21:16] On top of that, I just like the idea of having people out on the sidewalk, in the parklet, [02:21:21] just making the downtown area a more vibrant feeling area where we drive by, not everyone's [02:21:27] behind glass inside the business. [02:21:29] As far as the alcohol thing, like I said, it's a tricky situation, I'm sure, because [02:21:34] it is public space. [02:21:36] I think when Lisa and Chris first put their parklet up, I don't think most people realized [02:21:42] that they can just go sit there. [02:21:44] They thought it was just a business owner taking up two parking spots so their clients [02:21:47] can sit there. [02:21:49] There's so much more than that, but it is new. [02:21:51] This is a little scary for me up here as far as whether or not it's going to work, whether [02:21:55] or not we should approve it. [02:21:56] I think Lisa did a great job presenting pros and cons on both sides, but the way I look [02:22:01] at it right now is let's give it a shot for a while. [02:22:04] Let's get some design criteria that must be followed. [02:22:08] One thing I told Lisa and Chris about theirs is I thought it was cool that we had the hanging [02:22:12] lights at nighttime. [02:22:13] It added a cool atmosphere, but when I drove by during the day, the six poles going up [02:22:17] I thought pulled away from the facade of the building and blocked the view of the building [02:22:21] a bit. [02:22:22] There's a lot of certain things we need to look at, but to me it's an idea that may or [02:22:26] may not work, but I think we should give it a shot. [02:22:30] I don't know how many locations it's something we would have to hammer out, but as far as [02:22:34] parking goes, I know the parking study we had was based on our current codes and whatnot, [02:22:40] but I still have a hard time believing taking up two, four, six parallel parking spots is [02:22:45] going to have a detrimental effect on downtown. [02:22:48] I've been saying this up here for years. [02:22:49] People have to get used to just picking a public parking spot and walking from that [02:22:55] spot. [02:22:56] I can't remember the last time I was downtown on a Friday or Saturday night and every spot [02:22:59] on the east end of Fitzgerald's was taken, every spot on the south end, every spot behind [02:23:05] the health building was taken. [02:23:06] I don't remember seeing that. [02:23:07] You may not have to walk 50, 75 yards, but to address the parking lot that you were talking [02:23:12] about, Judy, that's owned by the county. [02:23:15] I agree with you. [02:23:16] There's a huge space on Sunset that they could park their vehicles at, and I think [02:23:20] if we're not yet, we're probably going to look into purchasing that parking lot from [02:23:24] the county so we could use it for public parking. [02:23:27] The way I look at it, parking is obviously very, very important, but the clientele that [02:23:33] we're attracting to the two developments that I mentioned earlier, those are the folks I [02:23:38] think that are going to want. [02:23:39] They're moving here because they want to be able to walk to places downtown. [02:23:42] They want to be able to hop in a golf cart and go to a rice nutrition and buy some groceries [02:23:46] to go home and eat. [02:23:47] I think that's the target market. [02:23:50] To me, six or eight spots isn't make or break, and like I said, I just can't remember the [02:23:54] last time, I'm sure we'll have arguments opposing my view, but that I walked downtown even on [02:23:59] a busy weekend night and could not find a parking spot at one of our public parking [02:24:04] spots. [02:24:05] It's going to get worse. [02:24:06] We do need more space. [02:24:07] I agree with Councilman Phillips. [02:24:08] We do need to look into acquiring more space where we can apply additional parking for [02:24:13] the years to come, but right now, I just honestly don't feel it's a huge issue where six or [02:24:17] eight spots would make or break whether or not I come downtown to eat dinner on a Friday [02:24:22] night. [02:24:24] When I was there that Monday night, it was two spots, but like the mayor said, Mr. Lankford's [02:24:29] little golf cart, gem cart was there, and Mr. Rapp's sitting in the front row in his [02:24:35] bike gang. [02:24:36] He's a really cool resident we have. [02:24:38] He and his buddies hop on their beach cruisers and just do little missions and go throughout [02:24:43] the city and visit different businesses. [02:24:45] I love having people like that living in our downtown. [02:24:48] He and his buddies were born and raised here just like I am, and very innovative thinkers, [02:24:53] but I remember seeing, I think, six, maybe five or six bikes and a golf cart along with [02:24:57] the parkland in those two spots, so I think that's kind of the residents that we're going [02:25:02] to be attracting here, and I just, once again, don't think the six to eight parking spots [02:25:07] is going to be too detrimental, but there's a lot that needs to be hashed out, but I'm [02:25:12] 100% in favor of trying it out and seeing if it's the right fit for Newport or if it [02:25:16] very well may or very well may not be. [02:25:19] And on that note, open it up for any comments from the public that you guys would like to [02:25:23] share with us. [02:25:24] I would ask that you print your name on the sheet and give us your name and address for [02:25:30] the record. [02:25:31] That way your name gets spelled correctly in the minutes. [02:25:34] Hi. [02:25:35] It's Lisa Bolster. [02:25:37] My address is 4529 Bray Quarter Boulevard. [02:25:40] I'm up in, almost in Wikiwachi. [02:25:46] To go a little bit out of order, because I had a lot of notes that I wanted to refer [02:25:50] to and then there's been so much discussion, so I'm just a little bit overwhelmed in all [02:25:54] the different directions that it went, so just to speak to the parking issue, just because [02:26:00] it was the last thing that we were discussing now. [02:26:04] The way we designed the parklet, and as some people saw the evening that we had everyone [02:26:10] out, and I'd like to also say it wasn't a grand opening. [02:26:12] I never used the word grand opening ever of the parklet. [02:26:17] It was just a come look and see what a parklet's about. [02:26:20] Grand opening, it's not a term that I use, but anyway, the way we had it laid out could [02:26:27] facilitate the parking of two golf carts, so on a two parking spot space, that's no [02:26:35] net loss of parking, even if there are six or eight throughout the city. [02:26:41] The way that the bike racking can be situated at the end of the parklet allows for a vertical [02:26:49] parking of bikes on one end, and it could facilitate two straight in parking, like the [02:26:55] mayor was saying, about pulling straight into the spot as opposed to parallel parking, [02:27:00] so in that respect, the parklet itself doesn't really create a loss of parking. [02:27:08] So if I could just first thank you for letting me come up, and I appreciate the fact also [02:27:13] that I'm up here first because of the fact that this was our exploration, which started [02:27:21] over a year ago. [02:27:23] It was our exercise in tactical urbanism. [02:27:27] Some people use the word tactical urbanism, some people use new urbanism. [02:27:31] Tactical urbanism often refers to the fact that it often can be a guerrilla type movement, [02:27:38] not necessarily, well not at all what we did. [02:27:45] This was planned, it was discussed, we started talking with a few different departments in [02:27:50] the city almost a year ago. [02:27:55] We researched online, we made phone calls. [02:27:59] I've spoken to businesses in Safety Harbor who had a pilot program. [02:28:04] Safety Harbor did not create a process by which a permit would be gotten first. [02:28:14] Their city manager created an informal type of program where several businesses tried [02:28:21] a pilot run for their parklets. [02:28:23] Their parklets, as you can see in some of the pictures on the slides and some of the [02:28:27] pictures online, were super, super informal. [02:28:32] I wouldn't have felt comfortable with proposing something like that on Grand Boulevard, and [02:28:37] not because Grand Boulevard is some wild thoroughfare, but because of the fact that I wouldn't have [02:28:42] been comfortable sitting out on the street that way, or having anyone else sit on the [02:28:46] street that way. [02:28:48] So we made more of a substantial structure. [02:28:50] I just want to clarify for everybody, because there's been some speculation, there's been [02:28:56] a lot of comments made about this rogue motion that we made, and the fact that there was [02:29:02] no permit. [02:29:03] I've heard a lot, no permit, no permit, no permit. [02:29:07] There's no permitting process. [02:29:08] Is there a permit that there is to be had? [02:29:10] No, there is not, because it wasn't designed yet, because this was supposed to be a pilot. [02:29:15] Every city that I've researched, every city, everyone in Florida for sure, has a pilot [02:29:21] program first, and it doesn't include a permitting process. [02:29:25] So I'd like to, and I know I'm over time, but I'd like to say that the steps that we [02:29:30] went to, it was an application. [02:29:32] I know it was called a packet, or a proposal, or it was an application, because I remember [02:29:39] having a conversation that was, fill out the application. [02:29:42] So the application included the following things that we made sure that we provided. [02:29:48] And some of those things were, well it was an agreement first of all that we were going [02:29:51] to be responsible for the parklet. [02:29:53] That's always the case. [02:29:55] The sponsoring business that puts the parklet out, builds the parklet. [02:30:00] the parklet, insures the parklet. So we would be responsible. We were required to [02:30:07] have a site plan, a cross-section drawing, a street map, signatures of supporting [02:30:13] businesses, proof of a comprehensive insurance plan. My insurance agent called [02:30:20] me after the fact to find out, has it been built so that that plan is now in [02:30:24] place? I didn't just go and get an insurance plan, that was part of the [02:30:28] application process. So I just want to make it clear that this was not a [02:30:32] tactical motion that was made and a parklet just got thrown on the street. [02:30:36] All these things were provided. We had some pages, some meteor pages of what was [02:30:44] required of us, and yet when Mr. Rivera came out the following day, we found out [02:30:49] we didn't have all the pages of what was required. But I had the pages that I was [02:30:53] provided with, and it was still a safe structure. It was ADA [02:30:58] accessible because the access was planed in such a way that there was [02:31:05] access for wheelchairs. It had reflective tape on the ends of the [02:31:10] structure. Those things were done. The parklet wasn't finished, it was a work [02:31:13] in progress. It was a platform. We were referred to that projects like [02:31:21] this were a poke in the eye to other businesses that do the right thing. [02:31:26] I brought my family, my husband and I brought our family. We brought pretty [02:31:33] much our life savings to New Port Richey when we opened our business. Every single [02:31:38] permit, license, inspection that's been required of me by the city, the county, [02:31:45] the state, have all been adhered to. Every inspection that was done passed [02:31:51] with flying colors. Everything that we did, a poke in the eye is nothing [02:31:58] compared to a punch in the stomach when somebody tells you that you are an [02:32:02] abomination to other business when you followed everything that you were [02:32:08] supposed to follow and put in the kind of investment that we did in our [02:32:14] business. That showed up in the Suncoast News, by the way. That [02:32:19] didn't make me very happy to see. There are some other non-issues that I [02:32:27] perceive as non-issues with the structures. Of course, I understand that [02:32:30] that needs to get hammered out. I know it needs to be shown on paper and [02:32:34] people need to understand. First of all, other cities do have guidelines for [02:32:39] design. Often they'll have four or five structures that business can choose from. [02:32:44] San Francisco has got a whole other set of rules that they go by with a [02:32:51] lot of things. It's also a very artistic place. If they deem it that their [02:32:57] businesses can do whatever they want, that's what San Francisco [02:33:02] decided. New Port Richey can have guidelines. Many cities have specific [02:33:07] guidelines for which they can be built. I'll try to wrap it up really fast [02:33:10] because it's just a few more things. I apologize. Public space. The street is a [02:33:15] public space, but it's public space for everybody. That includes motorists, [02:33:20] pedestrians, golf carts. Everyone's coexisting in that space. [02:33:26] Again, no net loss on the parking. I don't want to overlap on anything I'm [02:33:29] saying, but I'd like to get this in really quickly. We're supporting the [02:33:34] city's mission to create a more walkable downtown. This is what the city is saying. [02:33:38] The city wants a more walkable downtown. Parklet support that. I'm absolutely in [02:33:44] favor of making it a trial. I see nothing wrong with that. It was what it was [02:33:48] supposed to be. The word trial was used. The word pilot was used. All those things [02:33:52] are to see if in a certain amount of time, if something will work out. [02:33:56] This is what we thought we were doing. We've had continuous flow into [02:34:02] our establishment of people with support, excitement, encouragement. They're seeing [02:34:06] hope for a continuing forward momentum that ideas like Parklet's provide. [02:34:13] Also, in terms of being a contender with other flourishing forward-thinking [02:34:19] cities. No one wants to be compared to another city. I've heard some people say, [02:34:22] well, we don't want to be Dunedin. We don't want to be this. Neither do I, but [02:34:26] it's the common thread of being forward-thinking, trying new things. I [02:34:32] know that the first place that everyone doesn't think of when they think of [02:34:35] forward-thinking and trying new things is Jacksonville. I've had some [02:34:39] people kind of chuckle a little bit and say Jacksonville. Well, Jacksonville has [02:34:43] tons of Parklets in the city. They also have a program that can be [02:34:48] followed by which people can follow guidelines. [02:34:54] No city that I've researched, and it's been a lot of them, is just a random, you [02:34:59] just decide what design it is. You decide what you're going to do. It has to be [02:35:02] inspected. It has to be safe. My husband is well aware of that. He's a commercial [02:35:07] carpenter. He worked for union shops. He knows how to build. It's a [02:35:13] platform. We built a platform, and the nice thing is that that platform, that [02:35:18] physical structure of a platform, became a platform, and it became a platform that [02:35:22] we could talk about what forward-thinking is. I just wanted, my [02:35:27] biggest reason for coming up really was to say that we've gotten respect. [02:35:34] We've gotten respect because we've earned respect, and we intend to keep [02:35:37] that respect, and the way we did things, I want to be recognized that there [02:35:42] was nothing that was out of line other than following what we thought we were [02:35:47] supposed to be following. Thank you very much. Yeah, I appreciate it. [02:35:52] Mr. Mayor, if I might just make one comment. Obviously, the fact that this [02:36:02] happened where, to some people, it was putting the quark before the horse. So if [02:36:08] we need to address this with our development department, for folks of [02:36:14] your caliber, that you know how to build, you know what you're [02:36:18] doing, to have been confused with the idea that that packet, or whatever we [02:36:24] want to call it, application process, whatever, did require an approval, then [02:36:31] we need to address that, and we need to make, whether it's a one sheet of paper [02:36:34] that explains, you know, first you're going to do this, then you're going to do this, [02:36:37] and before this happens, this has to happen. I'm not sure, perhaps you can [02:36:42] assist us with creating that product. As far as calling, I never called your [02:36:48] business an abomination, and I apologize if that's what you thought, but I was [02:36:52] asked what the structure looked like, and in the heat of the moment, I said it was [02:36:55] an abomination. My bad, it was perhaps a wrong choice of words, but certainly your [02:37:01] business is for, it was not that intention, and it was not intended for [02:37:08] you as well. I mean, to you as well. We appreciate the fact that you've done [02:37:13] what you've done. The fact that a business person who lives where you live [02:37:17] chose our city to invest your money in, this is the type of businesses and [02:37:23] the type of people that we want to attract. We want to be able to be that [02:37:27] place that you are willing to invest your time, your money, your effort, and [02:37:30] your talent to us. So again, my apologies for the comment about the abomination, [02:37:36] but it was certainly not about your business. I love your business. I'm [02:37:38] thrilled that you're in that place, and that it's a place that is doing as well [02:37:43] as it is. Thank you. Anyone else? [02:37:52] Deb Morris, 5832 Indiana Ave. I just want to say we are absolutely for the [02:38:02] tactical urbanism and the idea of the parklets. We have been downtown more in [02:38:09] the last couple of weeks than I think we've been in the last few years that [02:38:13] we've lived here. Ordinance 1 is awesome. Looking forward to the next brewery. We [02:38:20] love SIP and support Lisa and Chris wholeheartedly. Love Roses. Roses, go to [02:38:28] Roses. The pizza place is awesome. I don't want to say that we just support [02:38:35] the alcoholics, but they are fun. We're kind of missing out on that. We [02:38:44] appreciate that. Anyway, I did want to say that the parking, we live on [02:38:51] Indiana and Adams, right across from the Methodist Church where that's parking [02:38:57] and then the parking on the other church. I was working that morning. I was [02:39:01] not planning to attend the parade, so I came home at just [02:39:07] about the time that the parade started, like 1-115. I could not believe how much [02:39:13] parking. I drove down Main Street and then on to Madison and up Central, I guess, [02:39:24] over to Jefferson. I always cut around. We always look at the houses. I [02:39:29] could not believe how much street parking there was. I'm like, oh my gosh, [02:39:33] the parade, is it really going on? There was a ton of parking. I feel like [02:39:38] people just don't want to walk, but the whole idea of the whole urbanism and [02:39:44] attracting being a walkable city is just that. People need to know that you [02:39:49] walk. If you've ever lived in a city, you walk. You drive around, look at the [02:39:55] block, looking for a place to park, and then you have to walk. I just think [02:40:00] that it's really kind of fun if the whole parking lot thing does get approved, [02:40:04] that we are talking about it and maybe approving it before any of the [02:40:08] surrounding cities that we don't want to be compared to, but here's a chance that [02:40:12] we can be first on something. So that's all. Thank you. [02:40:17] Anyone else? [02:40:20] Richard Williams, Jr., former city attorney. 6337 Grand Boulevard. I am all in favor of the new urbanism. [02:40:48] We've made a lot of progress downtown, and I salute all these people for [02:40:53] everything they're doing. I will say when it comes to the parklets, my only major [02:41:00] concern would be to make sure the issue of safety is addressed, because when I [02:41:06] saw the parklet being put up there, I thought it was actually like a viewing [02:41:10] stand or something for the Chasco Fiesta Parade, but with that being said, all I [02:41:17] could envision is if a teenager, somebody's driving along and [02:41:22] they're texting, doing something wrong, and they slide over a bit, we [02:41:27] don't want to have a major catastrophe, and I'm sure that can be addressed with [02:41:30] appropriate regulation. As far as parking goes, I guess it just depends. I mean, [02:41:37] the Splash Park downtown has been a phenomenal addition, and [02:41:43] parking is pretty scant. As you know, Mr. Marlow ran our parts on Saturdays and [02:41:49] Sundays, but that's fine to see everybody out that way, but that's my [02:41:53] only point, safety. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Williams. I thought for a moment he [02:42:01] was going to come up and say he wanted to put a parking lot right or parklet [02:42:04] right out in front of my office and his. See, Mr. Dristle, as a city [02:42:10] attorney, you can't get an applause. I want you to see that. It does happen. [02:42:15] Yeah, but the important word was former. Anyone else? Please, please. We're going twice. We're here. [02:42:27] You know, we're here to hear because, you know, trying to [02:42:34] operate in some of this in a vacuum and some of the things that are out there, [02:42:38] your ideas are five, ten times better than ours because we over-research stuff. [02:42:45] We don't have the same inference and same elements that you do, so we're here [02:42:52] to listen, really. I know it doesn't sound like it very often, but we are. [02:42:58] I'm the crazy bike guy of the town. Oh, the double one? You're not that high off the ground. I just want to say, I've lived here my whole life, what I've [02:43:16] been seeing is, I've never seen this, the morale is up. I think what Frank Starkey's [02:43:22] doing is great. I've never heard this much buzz going on. The biggest thing [02:43:27] about the parallel spot that sticks out of my mind is, I've watched people [02:43:32] parallel park. I'm surprised the theater's still there, to be honest. I think that there's [02:43:40] probably less danger eliminating those spots than there is having a park let, you [02:43:45] know. I really think that there's more pros than there are cons when it [02:43:52] comes to allowing these, especially since it is experimental. That's [02:43:59] basically it. I just, I love what I'm seeing. I think everybody else does. It [02:44:04] seems to be such a positive thing, so appreciate everybody, all the business [02:44:10] owners, Frank Starkey, and all you guys for what you're doing, too. Thank you. We [02:44:15] had talked with, I had dinner with Marie Skelton last Friday. We both happened to [02:44:21] wind up at Rose's, and I saw what she was eating and told them I want one of [02:44:25] those, but we sat down and talked a little bit about, specifically, out in [02:44:30] front of the theater. I've seen some of her clientele driving and trying to [02:44:34] parallel park. You were absolutely correct. I had suggested they'd be better [02:44:39] off to put a piece of red carpet out in that parking space right in front of the [02:44:42] theater and shuttle them in on golf carts, because it would be safer for [02:44:47] everybody. As far as, I mean, we can hammer out the details if we're gonna, [02:44:55] you know, come up with a plan, but I had mentioned six or eight months, and the [02:44:59] more I think about it... [02:45:00] I'm leaning towards what Councilman Phillips said. [02:45:01] I think if we're going to try it and experiment with it, [02:45:04] a minimum of a year so you can get through all the seasons. [02:45:07] It may be a lot more popular in the spring and fall months [02:45:10] than it is in the summer. [02:45:12] So I'd hate to just give it a six-month trial [02:45:14] through the summer where it's 107 degrees outside. [02:45:17] Because Mr. Bell-Thomas was well-known [02:45:19] when we started talking about the tree changes and stuff [02:45:22] we wanted to do downtown. [02:45:25] And we had a great deal of support from the mayor [02:45:27] because we were finally getting rid of those dirty elms [02:45:29] and stuff, and I agree completely, [02:45:30] because they overshadowed the sidewalks. [02:45:33] And once the palms went in, people [02:45:36] kept saying, I didn't know the sidewalks were this daggum big. [02:45:40] They really step out. [02:45:41] Plus, we all know the dog days of summer [02:45:44] in downtown New Port Richey, you're looking for shade. [02:45:50] And when my dad used to have his business downtown [02:45:54] next to the theater, there used to be a canopy walkover. [02:45:58] If you look at a lot of those, those [02:46:01] were done away with in different iterations, [02:46:04] as well as we used to have one-way streets [02:46:06] in different parts of the city here, [02:46:08] and those didn't play out because we've experimented [02:46:11] with a lot of things. [02:46:12] But I think by, obviously, getting to the palms [02:46:16] and doing some of that openness, we [02:46:17] do see what the opportunities are. [02:46:22] And I saw that when the former Potter IGA plans [02:46:27] were coming to us, because I kept saying, [02:46:29] we're going to have to address how [02:46:31] we're going to work with the sidewalks and outside seating [02:46:34] and some of those cafe-type settings. [02:46:37] This parklet gives a little more definition [02:46:39] and gives you a little more vibrance, I think. [02:46:42] And again, I think trying to do it a year or two, [02:46:46] we've just proven that you need a little more time [02:46:48] to really get public input and really see. [02:46:53] Because one year, you could have two hurricanes come through, [02:46:57] and that's going to address some key issues. [02:46:59] You can have different summers and different seasons. [02:47:02] So I just appreciate that you understand [02:47:06] that we're wanting to work along with this [02:47:08] and make things better, and then really have a test of time [02:47:15] so you don't think you undershot the mark. [02:47:17] That's really what I think. [02:47:19] I think that's very well taken, Councilman Phillips. [02:47:21] I would agree. [02:47:23] If we set this up as something that we're [02:47:26] going to revisit, 18 months to two years [02:47:29] is probably the right time frame to give it plenty of time [02:47:32] to have a good, fair run and give people a chance. [02:47:37] I mean, they can put theirs back out pretty quick, [02:47:43] but most of the people that are going to build parklets [02:47:45] are going to actually have to start from building them. [02:47:48] And so it's going to physically take a little while [02:47:50] before we see any more go up. [02:47:53] Should we have staff just go and start working on guidelines? [02:47:55] In the meantime, any business owner [02:47:57] that may be interested in sponsoring a parklet, [02:48:00] just come reach out to the building department? [02:48:02] I think that would be. [02:48:03] We can complete our work on the guidelines, [02:48:07] and it would be the development department, yes, [02:48:09] that would field inquiries from interested business owners. [02:48:15] I think I'd agree. [02:48:18] Can we either designate a point person? [02:48:21] Lisa Pierce, how about that? [02:48:23] That works for me. [02:48:24] As long as there's one consistent voice, [02:48:26] because if she's not there, please make an appointment [02:48:30] to come back. [02:48:32] She's not dodging you. [02:48:33] We're not dodging you. [02:48:34] But we want to make sure that there's one consistent voice, [02:48:37] because if you get three different iterations, [02:48:40] or they go to Mario and he's got information on the other side, [02:48:43] I just think one consistent evaluating point sets the stage. [02:48:48] And it's published here. [02:48:50] It's published on the website. [02:48:52] It'll be published in the paper that Lisa Pierce has now [02:48:55] inherited the parklet coordinator position [02:48:58] for the city of Newport Riches. [02:49:00] I think it's important, though, critically important, [02:49:03] that there be clear instructions as to the process, what's [02:49:08] going to happen, so that we do not have [02:49:10] a repeat of what happened. [02:49:11] And if I could say one other thing, [02:49:13] there are some businesses that are in the downtown right now. [02:49:16] And I'd love to hear from you, because I [02:49:17] know that we heard, I heard lots of stuff. [02:49:20] And I'm disappointed that some of you could not be here, [02:49:23] or they could not be here. [02:49:25] But I would like to invite, again, any of the businesses, [02:49:27] I'm looking at Jean, Joe, Kelly, that could come up. [02:49:31] Good, bad, or indifferent, I don't care. [02:49:33] It's just that I think it's important [02:49:35] that we do hear from some of the businesses [02:49:39] that maybe were, for whatever reason, you know. [02:49:44] Hi, Kelly Hackman, 6228 Grand Boulevard, the White Heron. [02:49:49] I was one of the businesses that Lisa came to, and Chris, [02:49:53] and asked for permission. [02:49:54] And I happily gave my permission, [02:49:56] because I think that the city needs [02:49:58] to continue being forward. [02:50:01] You know, we dealt with an issue with wanting to put seating [02:50:04] out front of our business, and the sidewalk not [02:50:06] being wide enough. [02:50:07] And so we figured out a way to continue [02:50:09] to keep the sidewalk ADA compliant, [02:50:12] while having some tables and chairs. [02:50:15] Of course, we don't have the alcohol issue [02:50:17] that other businesses face with the state. [02:50:20] So that kind of helps us with that. [02:50:22] But I was really happy to see that somebody was trying [02:50:26] something in downtown. [02:50:27] And I sit right across from them. [02:50:29] So I did tell Lisa it was a little bigger than I thought. [02:50:33] But that didn't mean I was going to fight it, [02:50:36] because having an investment in downtown, it takes a risk. [02:50:40] And I appreciated them doing that. [02:50:43] We do have a parking issue in downtown. [02:50:45] I hear it every day from my guests. [02:50:48] When we're trading out 30 people to 30 people to 30 people [02:50:51] at three sittings, you're talking [02:50:53] a lot of cars in downtown from 1130 to 435 o'clock. [02:50:58] And it does get to be a little impeding. [02:51:01] With that in mind, though, I don't [02:51:03] think that the parallel spots are what they're using, [02:51:06] because they don't like to parallel park on the street. [02:51:08] They're concerned about their cars being hit. [02:51:10] They're concerned about getting out into traffic. [02:51:13] If you haven't been on Grand Boulevard lately, [02:51:15] today people were flying down our street so fast, [02:51:17] my umbrella was moving, and there [02:51:19] was a car parked between my umbrella and the street. [02:51:22] So it is definitely an issue of safety [02:51:24] down there on Grand Boulevard. [02:51:27] And I agree with Frank, and I've been talking about it for years [02:51:30] with some of you, even, about making that two lane instead [02:51:33] of three with that center turn lane. [02:51:35] And it's crazy, because people fly around down there. [02:51:39] I did have a conversation with Robert Rivera's office, [02:51:42] and they've been very helpful with the speed limit issue [02:51:44] on Grand Boulevard. [02:51:46] Apparently, there were no signs from Louisiana to Main Street [02:51:49] with speed limits on them. [02:51:51] So I did receive an email a week and a half ago [02:51:53] that Barrett and the crew were putting up [02:51:55] 25 mile an hour from Louisiana all the way up to Main Street. [02:52:00] So hopefully, that will help with the situation. [02:52:02] But I don't know when they're going up. [02:52:03] I haven't been down there to see yet. [02:52:06] So maybe that will address some of the safety concerns [02:52:08] with the traffic, but it's definitely an issue. [02:52:11] Chief, if you would alert your guys to the issue. [02:52:14] They're constantly. [02:52:15] I mean, we hear them every day. [02:52:17] We're doing enforcement right now. [02:52:18] They are. [02:52:19] They are. [02:52:20] They are. [02:52:21] And we hear it. [02:52:21] Like you said, oh, they got somebody else. [02:52:23] I mean, all day long. [02:52:24] And it's been good. [02:52:26] I don't know how to make it better. [02:52:29] I know I'm not a fan of stop signs, [02:52:31] but I wish we could put one at Missouri and Grand. [02:52:34] And you go to Safety Harbor, every two blocks [02:52:36] on their Main Street is a stop sign to slow people down. [02:52:39] And that may help, again, with some safety concerns. [02:52:43] Just on a positive note, the perception of downtown [02:52:47] is wonderful. [02:52:48] 60% of my guests come from outside of New Port Richey. [02:52:50] 45% of that come from outside of Pasco County. [02:52:54] And they come up here and go, oh my gosh, [02:52:56] I can't believe what you're doing in New Port Richey. [02:52:57] I can't believe all this stuff is happening [02:52:59] and how great it is. [02:53:01] So I know. [02:53:03] So I think we have to keep that momentum. [02:53:05] And if that requires, like you say, [02:53:07] an experimental trial program, I, as a business owner, [02:53:11] am fine with that. [02:53:13] We have a brewery coming in. [02:53:14] We have no specific parking for that brewery either. [02:53:17] You know, I mean, you're talking a lot of people [02:53:20] attending Ordinance One, a lot of people [02:53:21] attending the brewery. [02:53:23] And there's no specific parking. [02:53:25] But we have a plan to make a map and give it [02:53:28] to our people that come in to show them where parking is. [02:53:31] So maybe if the city can help with the businesses [02:53:34] and show that as well, that may help. [02:53:37] We have maps we give our guests all the time. [02:53:39] We have it on our website. [02:53:40] And my client is telling me, we have to be honest, [02:53:43] is 70, 80 and up. [02:53:45] And they're willing to drive around and find parking, [02:53:48] though it'd be hard. [02:53:49] But I think there's some things we can do. [02:53:51] And I just want them to know, as a neighbor, [02:53:54] I applaud you for trying something. [02:53:56] And I hope that they can work something out [02:53:59] and maybe they can be the reason we have parklets. [02:54:02] Would you lean on your husband [02:54:04] to get his brewery open, please? [02:54:06] We're trying. [02:54:07] We have a permit. [02:54:08] So it's going. [02:54:10] Probably mid to late May. [02:54:13] It just depends on the brewer's notice. [02:54:15] So that's a state and federal issue. [02:54:18] The city doesn't have to worry about that one. [02:54:21] Thank you. [02:54:21] To our city... [02:54:22] To our city attorney, both Ordinance 1 [02:54:29] and the Cody River Brewing Company probably [02:54:33] would ultimately benefit by having tables and chairs [02:54:35] out on that very large sidewalk [02:54:37] in front of their respective establishments. [02:54:42] So we just need to make sure that we've got that covered [02:54:45] so they're safe. [02:54:47] Anyone else? [02:54:56] Hi, my name is Joe Carl. [02:54:58] I've been downtown since 1991. [02:55:00] I had Jillies and I still have the Reef right now. [02:55:04] I don't have... [02:55:05] I'm neutral about the parklet. [02:55:06] I mean, I think it's a good idea if they want to do it. [02:55:08] But since 91, the biggest problem we've had [02:55:11] downtown was parking. [02:55:13] And three projects that they've done [02:55:15] has eliminated like 20% of the parking. [02:55:18] So I don't know what they really want to accomplish [02:55:22] by doing that. [02:55:23] If they're going to do the parklet, [02:55:24] what you have to do though is come up with a guideline [02:55:27] for everybody to make it fair. [02:55:29] If Lisa's going to do it, you know, [02:55:32] you have to have a specific guideline. [02:55:33] Like when you're walking in the street, [02:55:35] if you're going to keep it open to the public, [02:55:37] then how are you going to stop, [02:55:39] like how it's going to be specified [02:55:40] for that specific business? [02:55:42] If that business is going to ensure that, [02:55:44] and the city's going to have to ensure it too. [02:55:46] I mean, the city will have to ensure that. [02:55:48] If somebody runs into it, they can sue the city. [02:55:51] Whether you do it, whether each business does it or not. [02:55:55] So you can't make it open to the public. [02:55:58] And if you have alcohol, [02:55:59] I've already talked to John Dancho, [02:56:01] he's an investigator for the ATB. [02:56:04] He said that that's going to be a hard sell [02:56:06] because you're going to have to actually make that permanent [02:56:09] not only at the parklet itself, [02:56:11] but you have to have the sidewalk going to it. [02:56:14] So that opens a different thing. [02:56:16] You know, and like Brian, a friend of mine, [02:56:17] opened the Cody up, we're looking forward to that. [02:56:20] But, you know, if you're going to put those chairs out there [02:56:23] and they're going to sit there and have a beer, [02:56:25] like on the original design for the, [02:56:31] you have to have a fence around it. [02:56:32] You just can't have it open to the public. [02:56:34] That's another problem they're going to have to have. [02:56:37] I mean, are you going to require him to put a fence around it [02:56:39] like they did in front of, well, it's going to be [02:56:44] the new sushi place now. [02:56:46] At your place. [02:56:48] Well, at the back or the front of like where they're at now. [02:56:51] You know, I mean, there's just little things like that [02:56:53] that, you know, me and Lisa go back and forth all the time. [02:56:57] So they're going to have to, you know, [02:57:00] just set a guideline and make it fair for everybody. [02:57:02] You know, are you going to make it if they have, [02:57:04] if there's a parking space and a half [02:57:05] in front of their building, then is that what they can have? [02:57:08] Or can they have three spots? [02:57:09] And how is that fair to everybody else? [02:57:11] You know, I mean, it has to be adjacent to your property. [02:57:13] And what are you going to allow them to have? [02:57:15] That's all I'm saying is the bottom line is make sure [02:57:18] that it's fair to everybody downtown. [02:57:21] And, you know, you have these specific guidelines made up [02:57:24] before you, before they throw something out there. [02:57:26] That's all. Thank you. [02:57:27] Thank you very much, Mr. Carl. [02:57:29] Thank you. [02:57:35] There we go. [02:57:39] How you doing? I'm Gene Sullivan. [02:57:41] My wife and I just moved downtown over here on Lafayette [02:57:44] and invested some other properties down here [02:57:46] and other businesses. [02:57:47] But the thing about the Parklet is I'm all for it. [02:57:52] Like, it's a beautiful place they built there [02:57:54] and everything, and the Parklet was nice and all. [02:57:58] And like Judy said, Main Street has a lot wider sidewalks, [02:58:02] and you can put the Parklet on the sidewalk [02:58:04] without taking away the parking, [02:58:06] and it accomplishes the same thing. [02:58:10] If you want to do a trial thing, [02:58:11] you also have the, what's it called, [02:58:13] the landing behind Fitzgerald's and all that, [02:58:15] where the railroad thing is. [02:58:17] You can have people do a model thing [02:58:18] and set it up there temporarily [02:58:20] and have, like, Sip's, my place, Joe's place, [02:58:24] a little model-type thing for six months or whatever [02:58:27] to see what it looks like, see how much people enjoy it, [02:58:29] and it'll all be portable, so you can always, [02:58:31] if the city approves it, [02:58:32] they can move it in front of their property or whatever [02:58:35] and down the road, you know, something like that. [02:58:38] The parking situation is, [02:58:40] I'm at nighttime all the time out here. [02:58:42] If Jimmy's didn't let people park there [02:58:44] in his parking lot on a weekend night [02:58:46] or Thursday night or something like that, [02:58:49] then your parallel parking on ground will be full [02:58:51] because he's very nice and lets everybody park there, [02:58:54] you know, without, and like Rob said, [02:58:57] today's kids, five years ago, [02:58:59] they stopped making parallel park, [02:59:01] and I sit there and watch them. [02:59:02] It's a nightmare, okay? [02:59:05] And little cars, much less a big one, [02:59:07] but you got a problem there [02:59:10] with the parallel parking thing. [02:59:11] What's left, I mean, if you're trying to get [02:59:14] in a parallel thing here with a parklet and all, [02:59:17] it's funny to see. [02:59:18] I'm out there every night, okay? [02:59:20] So those are things I say, but I'm all for it. [02:59:24] I think a lot of people should put some [02:59:25] in the back of their building, [02:59:26] enhance the back of the building from the backside, [02:59:28] which a lot of these properties look bad from the back. [02:59:31] You know, make the permits easier, less regulations, [02:59:35] and build a nice structure that's inspected, [02:59:37] make sure it's nice, but lights up the back [02:59:39] of the building, too, for entrance from the back way, [02:59:41] like Joe DeLuca's buildings, [02:59:43] they're all dark in the back and all. [02:59:46] That let people come through the back way, too, so. [02:59:49] But, and also, if you let one do it, [02:59:51] you should, everybody, if they get to do it, [02:59:54] then I might wanna do it, I might not wanna do it. [02:59:57] But also, somebody's gonna park in front of my business. [03:00:00] over there and pays for their business, a park lot. [03:00:02] So, but if everybody had them, [03:00:04] or majority of people downtown would probably want one [03:00:07] if they do it on Grand, but like she said, [03:00:10] it's Main Street and north of Grand and all that way, [03:00:13] where you have your really wide sidewalks, [03:00:15] you can put them there with no problem, [03:00:16] nice plants and all like you were talking about, [03:00:18] because I was at the meeting Thursday, [03:00:20] and you know, they had some nice things there with the plants [03:00:22] and they had some two by fours on bricks, [03:00:25] but they had some nice ones there though. [03:00:27] But anyway, thank you. [03:00:29] Thank you. [03:00:29] Thank you. [03:00:30] Thank you. [03:00:31] And my point about Main Street is, [03:00:33] that's wide sidewalk is essentially a parklet, [03:00:37] you know, because those businesses there have, [03:00:39] as Kelly mentioned, the first five, [03:00:41] the frontage in front of their places, [03:00:44] they, you wouldn't need a parklet on Main Street. [03:00:47] And that's what I think we need to try to, [03:00:50] what the businesses on Grand are trying to replicate [03:00:52] because the sidewalks there are so narrow. [03:00:55] Anyone else? [03:00:56] Mr. Wright. [03:00:59] And congratulations on the anniversary of your business. [03:01:02] Thank you very much. [03:01:06] My name is Jeff Wright, address is 7731 Bloomfield Drive. [03:01:12] Like you said, we just celebrated 24 years [03:01:14] in the city of New Port Richey. [03:01:16] We love the city. [03:01:18] We're looking forward to being downtown. [03:01:20] I think it's imperative that we continue [03:01:24] pushing the envelope of having parklets [03:01:28] and looking at other ways to have seating on the sidewalk, [03:01:34] streetscaping, so that people who do want to walk, [03:01:38] ride bicycles, golf carts, [03:01:40] have a place to hang out besides the park. [03:01:42] The park is awesome, [03:01:44] but it shouldn't be the only place to go. [03:01:46] We need other places along with the eateries [03:01:49] or spirits to hang out and enjoy each other's company. [03:01:56] So that's, I just wanted to share that. [03:01:58] Thank you. [03:01:59] Thank you. [03:02:00] Thank you. [03:02:00] Thank you. [03:02:01] Thank you. [03:02:02] Anyone else? [03:02:05] Please come on down. [03:02:14] Hi, my name is Turk Bektash, 5731 Main Street. [03:02:20] I'm a general contractor and also I own a company, [03:02:23] a telecommunications company. [03:02:25] I do infrastructure and I work all over the country. [03:02:31] And just to give you an idea, [03:02:34] I pull permits, you know, such as this city here [03:02:40] or any county to in counties [03:02:44] where there's no building department. [03:02:46] So I work anywhere in between as far as structures go. [03:02:52] Like when it comes to this Parklets, [03:02:54] I saw the structure that was built [03:02:57] and, you know, my opinion is to relax a little more [03:03:04] because if we wanted to make it harder, [03:03:07] will we regulate the structures? [03:03:11] Do we want an engineer draw it? [03:03:14] And what's gonna happen when a hurricane comes? [03:03:20] I mean, any chair on a sidewalk like mine [03:03:24] or any of the tables can be projectiles [03:03:27] when it comes to hurricane. [03:03:28] I mean, the Parklets, will we regulate them again? [03:03:35] And, you know, to me, city of New Poritchi [03:03:40] is so strict on so many things. [03:03:43] And I'm not sure that you require a lot of studies done [03:03:48] on a lot of the stuff. [03:03:50] And I understand we're moving forward. [03:03:52] We're making, we're trying to make things better. [03:03:56] I understand that. [03:03:58] But there are so many other ways to look at [03:04:00] some of the other stuff as far as these Parklets go. [03:04:05] I think I'm for it. [03:04:07] I don't think downtown has so big of a parking issue [03:04:13] from my perspective. [03:04:14] I saw it for six years. [03:04:16] I've been working in that construction. [03:04:19] And, but again, if like the city attorney said, [03:04:25] if you're not going to relax your alcohol rules [03:04:28] to the Parklets, then this even conversation is obsolete [03:04:32] because then, you know, it's not gonna work [03:04:34] for establishments like Sips [03:04:37] or any other establishments that serve alcohol. [03:04:42] And, you know, then we're like really wasting our time here [03:04:49] if you can't relax the rules on alcohol serving. [03:04:54] So that's all I wanted to say. [03:04:55] Thank you very much. [03:04:56] Anyone else? [03:05:05] Seeing none, Ms. Vance, do you have? [03:05:08] I have appropriate direction to go forward. [03:05:13] I'm sorry, Mrs. Spears. [03:05:14] Can I ask for clarification? [03:05:16] Since I am the designated parklet coordinator, [03:05:18] I think you could give me that. [03:05:20] Can I get your new business card [03:05:22] that adds that to the list on the back? [03:05:24] That will be fine, but I just wanna make sure [03:05:26] I understand what you said, [03:05:29] which is you're gonna allow a pilot trial period

   This text was generated automatically from the meeting video. It is not a verbatim or official record. For exact wording, consult the video or the city clerk.

4. 4Adjournment