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   Main Street Bridge Design Options Presentation by Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc.

   discussed

   Kimley-Horn / Wanamaker Jensen presented 60% design options for Main Street Bridge improvements, including replacing concrete benches, LED under-bridge lighting, repainting railings, new pavers, light pole replacements, planters, trash cans, and bike racks. Council provided input favoring elevated benches with river views, anti-skateboard/anti-loitering features, color palettes that complement wayfinding signage and the new crosswalk, preserving existing artist-painted benches for repurposing (possibly at Orange Lake or splash pond), and consulting the cultural affairs committee. No formal action taken.

   • direction:Council directed designers to bring back conceptuals showing the view from a seated person's perspective and to consider elevated benches that allow viewing over the railing. (none)
   • direction:Council directed that existing artist-painted benches be removed (not demolished) and preserved for potential repurposing elsewhere. (none)
   • direction:Council directed designers to coordinate color palette with wayfinding signage and the new crosswalk, and to consult with the cultural affairs committee. (none)

   📍Main Street Bridge📍Orange Lake📍Railroad Square📍River Road📍Sims Park🏢Duke Energy🏢Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc.🏢Sherman Williams🏢Wanamaker Jensen👤Aaron McGonigal👤Bill Beard👤Judy👤Mr. Starkey👤Ms. Manz#60% design review#LED lighting#Main Street Bridge Design Options#cultural affairs committee#wayfinding signs

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   [00:00:17] Thank you. [00:00:18] The first item on the agenda is the Main Street Bridge Design Options presentation. [00:00:19] Ms. Manz. [00:00:20] Thank you, Mr. Mayor. [00:00:21] I have in front of you this evening Aaron McGonigal from the firm of Wanamaker Jensen [00:00:26] and Bill Beard, who serves as an electrical subcontractor to Wanamaker Jensen, and our [00:00:33] purpose of the presentation this evening is to introduce some design options to you for [00:00:39] improvements to the Main Street Bridge. [00:00:42] At this point, we'd like to get some input from you on some preliminary designs and provide [00:00:50] an opportunity for others to provide input as well. [00:00:57] And Mrs. McGonigal has a PowerPoint presentation. [00:01:14] So, we were tasked to take a look at your bridge on Main Street and... [00:01:21] I might mention for those of you in the back, this is not church. [00:01:28] If you come up towards the front, you'll see this presentation a lot better. [00:01:34] Okay, so this is... [00:01:38] What I'll show you this evening is a presentation for what we'll call our 60% design review. [00:01:49] Quick slide to just show you the existing conditions of the current bridge, pavers, [00:01:55] concrete benches. [00:01:57] Our design directives from Ms. Manns was look at replacing the concrete benches, LED lighting [00:02:06] for underneath the bridge, repainting the railing on the bridge as well as the sidewalk [00:02:14] associated with it, replacing the light poles, new materials for where we'll have to disturb [00:02:23] the pavers to remove the concrete benches, and then options for some trash cans, some [00:02:31] nice planters and vegetation for those planters, and some bike racks. [00:02:39] Just another view to orientate you with the existing bridge of showing the concrete benches [00:02:46] where there's about 12 existing light poles currently. [00:02:52] And of course, as designers, we always like to find inspiration before we just delve into [00:02:58] a design. [00:02:59] So we're pulling our inspiration from materiality, geometry, and also relationships. [00:03:06] And these are just little blurbs to kind of help you understand where our mindset is as [00:03:12] we go through a couple options. [00:03:14] But materiality attracts people visually and physically. [00:03:18] The use of materials can create a comfortable, pleasant space. [00:03:22] Incorporating vegetation brings nature into the urban fabric. [00:03:27] As well as angled, abstract geometry can help create a dynamic location that invites people [00:03:34] to visit and stay. [00:03:36] This type of spatial configuration evokes curiosity and discovery within the space itself. [00:03:44] And then the use of paving patterns to create relationships between the ground and the site [00:03:50] features makes for a memorable space as well. [00:03:54] The proper arrangement of site furnishings can create zones that fit into more of a human [00:04:00] scale as you're visiting the bridge area. [00:04:07] So this is the demo plan associated with the first scheme that we'll show you. [00:04:15] If you can see, kind of the pink highlighted area is the area where we would propose to [00:04:20] demo the existing pavers. [00:04:23] It's also in line with where the concrete benches are and the current configuration [00:04:28] of the light poles. [00:04:32] We would come back with a new, almost striping pattern of new pavers. [00:04:38] They would be, we would propose a different color and then a different, how they're inset, [00:04:44] a different pattern for these pavers to help set them apart from the existing pavers. [00:04:51] We would include new benches. [00:04:54] Those benches would have backs and they would also have views so that you can sit on them [00:04:59] and enjoy the street view if you were to have a parade as well as the water view. [00:05:11] So they will be back to back or there may be some options, so yes, in some options where [00:05:17] there are backs on part of the bench and then another part of the bench may not have backs [00:05:23] so you can easily swing and look both ways. [00:05:27] These are just a couple conceptual images. [00:05:32] This would be a bench where you have options for a back and then as part of the same bench [00:05:39] you don't have backs. [00:05:42] And so we could place another bench behind this one, back to back, without the second [00:05:49] half to still kind of get that dual viewing opportunity. [00:05:56] We're thinking about larger planters to, as pots, sure, obviously the long bench, nice [00:06:08] existing, we've got the little, the seating we have and maybe park and recs or public [00:06:17] works can confirm, but that bench setting would offer a substantial opportunity for [00:06:25] our homeless population to decide that that was a nice long laying area. [00:06:32] I'm just, I'm trying to think ahead because we've run into this before and in some of [00:06:36] the benches that were bought previously, obviously there were spacers or they were, to break [00:06:42] them off. [00:06:43] I'm just, I mean, obviously conceptually they look great. [00:06:47] I'm just anticipating what Mr. Starkey might see when he takes a left hand turn, coming [00:06:53] down River Road, headed out to Rowan and I know he's, I know in certain parts of the [00:06:59] year you see quite a menagerie of different seating and sleeping arrangements if I don't, [00:07:06] if I recall. [00:07:07] Is that correct? [00:07:08] Okay. [00:07:09] Okay. [00:07:10] All right. [00:07:11] And those type of benches also have been obstacles for skateboarders. [00:07:18] Yeah, that's probably a huge issue and the bikers, bike kids. [00:07:24] As far as the backs go, I mean, I'm, I'll answer right off hand, but I don't know if [00:07:31] I want backs facing the street and the river, it's just kind of, I don't know how that's [00:07:37] going to look. [00:07:38] I don't know. [00:07:39] You never know. [00:07:40] If you want to sit there and watch traffic, I'd personally want to sit there and watch [00:07:41] the river, but. [00:07:42] One of the challenges. [00:07:43] Challenge for sure. [00:07:44] Well, one of the challenges, the rail is so, as someone like me sitting on that bench even [00:07:51] now, I can't see the river, I see the rail. [00:07:53] Just saying. [00:07:55] Yeah, that's a good point. [00:08:00] All of these benches do have options to put intermediate arms on them. [00:08:07] They also have options, they call them little skateboard preventing nubs that you can integrate [00:08:13] into the bench, because that is a problem everywhere. [00:08:16] Still not addressing what Judy had to say, because you can't see the river, you can't [00:08:23] see the river. [00:08:24] So I'm just going to throw this out there, because I, you know, I don't know where we're [00:08:27] going with it, but so the pavers that are there, you know, if the seating needs to be [00:08:33] heightened, you know, and you're looking at putting pavers in, I mean, if there's something [00:08:38] wrong with the pavers that are there, would we be able to like put pavers in then, a bench [00:08:42] or whatever that would at least bring the height over the rail? [00:08:45] Yeah, some of the pavers, when we demo the benches, I think, will destroy, part of the [00:08:51] reasoning is it will destroy the pavers that are right in there, but. [00:08:55] You're looking at about a three foot, because, or two half feet or something, of the pavers. [00:09:00] You're going to leave the other eight or ten feet of pavers. [00:09:02] Yeah, she's just going to make a strike, or an accident. [00:09:06] So the bench that's there right now is not sitting on pavers, it's sitting and it was [00:09:12] paved around? [00:09:13] Because I thought those benches just can get picked up and moved. [00:09:17] Yeah, well, I think, I don't want to speak, but I am going to speak, because they showed [00:09:23] kind of the dynamics was to take it being one monolithic look, and I think they're correct [00:09:29] when you, I don't know how much damage they did to curbing or to sidewalks or whatever [00:09:35] when we removed the 200 that were further up the line that weren't painted as colorfully [00:09:43] as these are, but I understand what your thought is, is that you can be as careful as possible, [00:09:52] but as soon as you pick those up, you don't have a clue what's underneath. [00:09:56] I would guess they're sitting down a bit into the pavers. [00:09:59] I don't know how much jumping has been going on, I don't know what they look like underneath, [00:10:03] but I think you were looking for an accent point. [00:10:06] That's right, I mean, right, we wanted to do, bring in some different paving regardless [00:10:13] to kind of, as an accent, as an aesthetic feature, but the thought was that when we [00:10:21] do demo those benches, if it does happen to destroy any of the pavers around it, that'll [00:10:26] help mitigate. [00:10:27] And can I just request, because I'm not sure that we've decided that we're demoing the [00:10:32] benches, we're removing the benches, that could be the discussion, if those benches [00:10:35] can be removed without damaging them, you know, I'd like to discuss a plan for those, [00:10:41] but just... [00:10:42] Perfect, yeah, when I say demo, speak, that, thank you, I appreciate that, it could still [00:10:47] be halved, but go ahead and give it to me. [00:10:49] Or you think we should put them somewhere else? [00:10:51] Maybe... [00:10:52] Well, if the councilwoman would like them for her yard, we could probably sell them [00:11:06] at a reasonable price. [00:11:07] Well, actually, I was going to suggest that some of them may, they may make a nice seating [00:11:12] area where the splash pond is, because I know that people might... [00:11:17] Those things are horrible. [00:11:19] How horrible, in the sense of the block itself? [00:11:23] They're literally hard as a rock, they're just nasty. [00:11:26] Well, I mean, what we have there now is the same thing, it's a cement wall, and I could [00:11:32] put cushions on it, but regardless, my thought was that they could potentially be intermingled [00:11:36] in the park, because that could be, you know, we had artists that painted those, and I think [00:11:44] that we might be able to repurpose them, so regardless, we can have that conversation [00:11:48] another evening. [00:11:49] But I'm just sensitive to the idea that you're suggesting that we're demoing them rather [00:11:53] than removing them. [00:11:54] She has inherent value in them, because she's been around them for so long, both in her [00:11:59] role here, and in her role on Main Street, and doing that, which is great, and I know [00:12:03] we had talked previously about possibly doing some enhancements around Orange Lake, you [00:12:11] know, they talked about big back chairs and all that. [00:12:15] If we can pull them over so that we can save them, and then for another day, talk about [00:12:22] the repurposing of those, because they are, what, 30 years old, 2019, 92 to 94 is when [00:12:30] most of the streetscapes happened, yeah, so they, you know, if it was a car, they'd have [00:12:35] a tag on them that said, you know, vintage, and of course, we agree that they're vintage, [00:12:43] but I understand your love of them, we really do. [00:12:48] And to honor the artists that are still in the community that have done them, but just [00:12:54] to clarify, the benches that are there now are not sitting on pavers necessarily, we [00:12:58] don't know. [00:12:59] When we pick it up and move it, what's underneath it? [00:13:03] So that's where the idea of replacing pavers that were missing, that's where we were talking, [00:13:08] under those areas? [00:13:09] That, or if we damage some of them in the removal of those benches. [00:13:14] As I'm understanding this, if you do the whole stripe from one end of the bridge to the other, [00:13:19] along the line where those benches are now, you could do them in a different color that [00:13:24] would add an accent. [00:13:25] Right, right, and kind of anchor the benches and the landscape kind of visually. [00:13:32] But it's not appropriate to suggest that they could be, that there could be a height put [00:13:36] on to that, so that we essentially would raise it. [00:13:39] We can certainly in this process look into to see what the options, appropriate options [00:13:45] are to raise seating. [00:13:46] If you take off the weight of all those benches, and we needed to put a height there, perhaps. [00:13:55] That's not a bad idea to take them, basically step the benches up high enough if they're [00:13:59] aimed out at the river so you can see over the handrail. [00:14:02] Because I would agree with whoever just said it, I mean it's so exquisite looking at that [00:14:07] river either side. [00:14:08] So if the bench is there and you're only looking at, I mean even looking at them at traffic [00:14:14] across, down, that you can see. [00:14:17] But to just see right there, so anyway, thank you. [00:14:20] You can look in elevated benches for viewing them. [00:14:22] Yes, yeah, we'll look into some options for how to. [00:14:24] If you bring it back, or if you bring back the conceptuals, would you please give it [00:14:29] a view from sitting on the bench? [00:14:33] Because everybody's going to say, well you were asked about it, and people won't be able [00:14:39] to visualize it if you have it on a screen that shows if you sit on a bench and you're [00:14:43] 5 foot 5 feet tall. [00:14:45] 5 foot and a half inch tall. [00:14:49] The rest of us will see over it then, yeah. [00:14:54] The railing has a height requirement anyway, just like anything else that's in construction. [00:14:58] If your kids won't be sitting, they'll be standing. [00:15:00] I don't know if the bench has any, how do I do this? [00:15:14] So just again, to kind of conceptually [00:15:20] and visually show you like your existing pavers [00:15:23] are kind of a little bit of a whitewashed reddish color. [00:15:29] So we could come in with a more neutral, lighter color [00:15:34] or a tan and do a different pattern [00:15:37] to help set these new pavers [00:15:39] apart from the existing pavers. [00:15:43] Another thought is, and let me go back. [00:15:46] And is that the reasoning behind that is so they won't fade? [00:15:50] No, this is a lighter paper you mean? [00:15:53] Yeah, because I'm thinking of maintenance [00:15:56] for keeping them clean. [00:15:58] Keeping them clean, mm-hmm. [00:15:59] Yeah, not necessarily, just to sort of, [00:16:02] it just needs to be a color that grabs enough contrast [00:16:06] with the existing to really make [00:16:08] an aesthetic visual difference. [00:16:10] So you're gonna connect that color [00:16:11] with the color that you're looking to do on the concrete? [00:16:14] Yes. [00:16:15] So those would kind of blend together? [00:16:18] Not necessarily the same, but yeah, they'd probably. [00:16:21] So you'd have a, you'd have a kind of a, [00:16:24] you'd have old paver, new line paver, [00:16:28] and then the concrete pad, right? [00:16:32] Sidewalks, mm-hmm, right. [00:16:34] And see how miserable that looks right there? [00:16:36] The white pavers. [00:16:38] So the railing and then the sidewalk itself, [00:16:42] a thought that we are entertaining for that [00:16:46] is similar to this conceptual picture [00:16:49] where we do a new color. [00:16:51] We pick a new, and I believe it's a stain right now. [00:16:54] So we pick a new stain, a new appropriate exterior paint, [00:16:57] and we wrap it around the outside of the railing, [00:17:01] inside of the railing, and bleed it down [00:17:03] over the sidewalk until it hits the pavers. [00:17:06] And then you'll have this little band of the old paver, [00:17:09] then we'll have the new paver, [00:17:10] and then we'll have the old pavers again. [00:17:12] Yeah, the bridges and stuff. [00:17:16] Oh, the Sherman Applegate color selection, [00:17:19] because we painted all three bridges [00:17:22] within about a year-and-a-half time frame, I think. [00:17:25] Because that's what's on the bridge now. [00:17:30] It used to be the off-pink, whatever that pink was. [00:17:37] Coral, they call it in this document. [00:17:39] Coral. [00:17:42] They call it coral. [00:17:45] The reason I bring that up is because [00:17:52] I don't necessarily want it. [00:18:08] We did get the, Public Works sent us the specs [00:18:13] for the colors and the paint that was used, [00:18:15] not on the original, but for all the bridges, [00:18:18] I guess, when they did repaint them. [00:18:20] So we do have that, John. [00:18:22] Along those same lines of making it consistent, [00:18:25] I don't know that I would object to having [00:18:28] the same type of, or same style of bench on the bridges [00:18:34] we've got in the park and we've got downtown. [00:18:37] Because that would add some consistency all the way across. [00:18:41] And if we painted the bridges [00:18:44] within a reasonable amount of time, [00:18:46] and we're working on this one now, [00:18:47] then it would not be unreasonable to suggest [00:18:49] that maybe we just paint them all the same color [00:18:51] if we're gonna change this. [00:18:54] Just a thought. [00:18:54] Right. [00:18:55] And we could take a look and make sure, [00:18:57] you know, if that's the case, if that's the direction [00:18:59] the city wants to entertain, [00:19:01] we could certainly look at colors [00:19:02] that would collaborate throughout. [00:19:06] Just another thought. [00:19:08] We're in the midst of our wayfinding signs. [00:19:12] I think maybe we should pick a color palette [00:19:15] that would complement those. [00:19:17] Will the wayfinding signage colors [00:19:20] complement the bridge colors? [00:19:21] If we're looking to brand our city [00:19:23] and the interior of our city. [00:19:24] In response to your comment, Councilwoman, [00:19:28] we're just not far enough along in the design for that, [00:19:30] but you're right, it's perfectly appropriate [00:19:33] to make sure that they complement each other, [00:19:34] and we'll do so. [00:19:35] Thank you. [00:19:42] So a second, we'll call alternative proposed plan [00:19:47] that plays off the first one just a little bit [00:19:50] is it's essentially the same, [00:19:52] except we are, instead of just having [00:19:54] the one stripe of new paver, [00:19:59] we show just kind of throwing in [00:20:02] a little bit more geometry and play [00:20:06] into some new paver patterns. [00:20:16] And just some conceptual images, [00:20:18] this one up here which shows [00:20:20] they're working with three different paver colors [00:20:23] and patterns and geometries in these scenarios. [00:20:28] You're asking us to make a choice, [00:20:32] or make a comment? [00:20:34] I don't get to do that at home, [00:20:36] so I don't know why you're asking me to do it here. [00:20:39] You know, when it comes to design, [00:20:41] geometry and wall hangings, all that kind of stuff, [00:20:44] it's half jokingly, but it's half serious, [00:20:46] because obviously it's in the maker's mind, [00:20:50] and you know, some like the abstract, some don't, [00:20:53] so I'm just making a point that [00:20:57] something that's gonna stand the test [00:21:01] of a little bit of time. [00:21:08] And then this is our last scheme. [00:21:10] So this is the demo plan. [00:21:12] This takes it much further. [00:21:15] We show demoing about half of the existing pavers, [00:21:19] so we can really come in with an interesting pattern. [00:21:22] Is that a wave? [00:21:24] It could be. [00:21:25] It could be. [00:21:26] No. [00:21:27] We put the wave in our wayfinding signs. [00:21:30] Oh, okay. [00:21:31] You're on the river, [00:21:32] so maybe you ought to give them the wayfinding elements, [00:21:36] and on the very top where they have a metal effect on them, [00:21:43] and kind of a sun, isn't there a sunrise? [00:21:46] There is. [00:21:47] There's a sun, but the metal wave, [00:21:51] the metal top is supposed to give you the feeling [00:21:55] of being on the wave or on the river. [00:21:59] That's the whole, one of the main points [00:22:02] that we went round and round, didn't we? [00:22:04] Yeah, and that's an interesting point. [00:22:06] It would be nice to tie it in on the bridge. [00:22:09] And if you get a chance, [00:22:10] I don't know if you can see it in the dark, [00:22:12] but if you'll go by and look at the crosswalk [00:22:15] that was just done, [00:22:17] and all the colors that were utilized there, [00:22:21] you know, it would be, [00:22:22] that along with the wayfinding and all that, [00:22:25] would show some thoughtful consistency, [00:22:29] because that's a big, [00:22:31] we saw the drone shots today, [00:22:33] and I had it on my phone, [00:22:35] and I'm sure somebody will share it later, [00:22:37] but it's pretty dynamic. [00:22:39] You know, that goes from what it was, [00:22:42] to it kind of jumps, [00:22:44] now it's nice, but you do look at it, [00:22:47] so those color palettes and stuff, [00:22:50] so I wouldn't, [00:22:52] so in the process, [00:22:54] to try to tie the wayfinding back together, [00:22:57] because it's all within that same zone. [00:23:00] With that said, [00:23:02] doing all of this on the ground is great, [00:23:04] and we'd be able to see all of that, [00:23:06] but the walls of the bridge, [00:23:09] to create that look by painting it, [00:23:12] that would, I think, [00:23:14] be a very dynamic tying together [00:23:19] with what we have on the crosswalk, [00:23:21] and what we have on our signs, [00:23:23] so I'm thinking that might make a very impactful. [00:23:26] And it may be beneficial for you, [00:23:28] as you're going through this process, [00:23:30] to maybe consult with some of the people, [00:23:32] or our entire cultural affairs committee, [00:23:34] who are trying to bring a new art culture, [00:23:37] dynamic to our downtown, [00:23:39] that's been lacking for a long time, [00:23:41] and with a project like this, [00:23:43] there's, I'm sure, plenty of opportunities [00:23:45] where you can engage our vision, [00:23:47] through the arts and culture, [00:23:49] and they might just be a good body to meet with, [00:23:52] when you're contemplating design, [00:23:54] and tying things into Sims Park, [00:23:56] and some of the other plans they have for the future. [00:23:58] I would absolutely echo that. [00:24:02] What else? [00:24:04] I had a question about your light fixtures. [00:24:06] Sure. [00:24:08] Because, obviously, we've got a standard, [00:24:10] we've introduced LEDs about three years ago, [00:24:13] that obviously brighten up downtown, [00:24:17] but some of your examples [00:24:19] was to come in with something taller, [00:24:21] that kind of, I don't know, [00:24:23] telescopes over, or something. [00:24:27] So, in your thought process, [00:24:29] trying to blend in [00:24:31] a little bit of what we have, [00:24:33] so it doesn't arbitrarily just [00:24:35] make it an intermittent speed bump, [00:24:37] in the look, [00:24:39] coming through. [00:24:41] So, I don't know how you get there, [00:24:43] I'm just throwing it out there. [00:24:46] Those are Duke Energy fixtures, [00:24:48] so, kind of, where we started was, [00:24:50] okay, if we're going to replace those, [00:24:52] what are the other options that Duke has, [00:24:54] and they can come in and, you know, [00:24:56] swap them out, [00:24:58] and we can get the same connections, [00:25:00] and, um, [00:25:02] so that was kind of some direction [00:25:04] we were looking at, [00:25:06] if we were to swap out the light poles. [00:25:08] And they have a different one [00:25:10] on Railroad Square area, [00:25:12] that are different from anywhere else, [00:25:14] so that might be a thought to take a look at those. [00:25:24] So, again, these are just some [00:25:26] conceptual images to go [00:25:28] with this patterning and design. [00:25:30] Um, just, it just [00:25:32] offers just a couple more places [00:25:34] to kind of commune, [00:25:36] and, um, [00:25:38] just kind of way find your way [00:25:40] around the bridge, [00:25:42] instead of just a straight path. [00:25:44] Um, and as you said, this [00:25:46] is kind of nice, as in it ties [00:25:48] into the wave of your current [00:25:50] um, signage, [00:25:52] and some other things [00:25:54] you have going on. [00:25:56] With that design [00:25:58] that you just had a minute ago, would that [00:26:00] allow, um, [00:26:02] folks sitting, as well as [00:26:04] a bicycle [00:26:06] coming across that bridge, or would they be in the road? [00:26:08] No, we'd have to allow for the [00:26:10] bicycle to come across the bridge. [00:26:12] So you would still have the sidewalk here. [00:26:14] That's the sidewalk? [00:26:16] Yeah, that comes along here. [00:26:18] So that would be their access across the bridge. [00:26:24] Um, so now, uh, [00:26:26] bridge lighting, inspiration and design. [00:26:28] So part of our scope [00:26:30] was to look at and come up with [00:26:32] a design for adding LED [00:26:34] light fixtures to the bridge. [00:26:36] Um, so our concept [00:26:38] and our thought is to add those lights [00:26:40] underneath the bridge, so the [00:26:42] light spills out onto the water and [00:26:44] emanates from, um, [00:26:46] from within, with under the [00:26:48] bridge. So I will turn it over [00:26:50] to Bill, who's our electrical [00:26:52] engineer on this project, [00:26:54] um, to speak to this portion. [00:26:56] Yes, so we're using, um, [00:26:58] um, RGB [00:27:00] LED technology. These [00:27:02] are outdoor rated luminaires, [00:27:04] and we're going to be on [00:27:06] both sides of the [00:27:08] structural beams, and these luminaires, [00:27:10] which are four feet in length, will [00:27:12] illuminate the bottom of the bridge [00:27:14] and have a beam angle [00:27:16] and, um, to illuminate [00:27:18] and bounce off and also hit the water [00:27:20] with, with, [00:27:22] they use DMX control, [00:27:24] so they're programmable. [00:27:26] So, um, once they're installed, [00:27:28] uh, they would be commissioned by [00:27:30] someone in IT or someone [00:27:32] from the rep. [00:27:34] Uh, it's a fairly simple thing to do, [00:27:36] and you can program them to come on, [00:27:38] come off at specific times, and to [00:27:40] do any number of two [00:27:42] dozen different, uh, effects, [00:27:44] all with color changing, all [00:27:46] LED, all outdoor rated. [00:27:48] So that's [00:27:50] basically the long and the short of it. [00:27:52] Now, are we waiting to do the, [00:27:54] this together? Because, as [00:27:56] everyone knows, this GoFundMe page, we've had money [00:27:58] sitting here for well over a [00:28:00] year. I mean, they raised enough money, from what I understand, [00:28:02] to do the LED lighting under the bridge, [00:28:04] and we've been waiting for a gentleman like yourself [00:28:06] to come along and, and [00:28:08] engineer the specs, correct? So, you've [00:28:10] done that? Yes, sir. Yes. Okay. [00:28:12] And with your approval this [00:28:14] evening, we're prepared to have [00:28:16] construction documents ready to present [00:28:18] to the county by next week. [00:28:20] And, great point with the county, so all [00:28:22] these designs with the top of the bridge, do we [00:28:24] have to run that by the [00:28:26] county as well? Yes. Okay. [00:28:28] We do. What about this, [00:28:30] um, walkway we've talked to get [00:28:32] from Beeple Bridge to the park? [00:28:34] That is not part of [00:28:36] this scope of the project, [00:28:38] but I am mindful of the fact that it's of [00:28:40] interest to the council, and we've talked to the consultant [00:28:42] about it. [00:28:46] Very excited about the lighting. That's going to look awesome [00:28:48] at night. Um, sir, [00:28:50] the, the other picture that you had a minute ago, you had [00:28:52] a picture on the left of lighting, and you had a picture on the [00:28:54] right of lighting. Are you suggesting that what we're, [00:28:56] what you are proposing [00:28:58] to us is that that [00:29:00] could be one option? The one [00:29:02] on the left would also be able to change [00:29:04] color or whatever? Or [00:29:06] is that a different, is that like one [00:29:08] option and then the other? [00:29:10] That's an example. Here's [00:29:12] a 3D rendering. Um, [00:29:14] that doesn't reflect [00:29:16] the color changing, it's just showing you kind [00:29:18] of the illuminance and the location of the [00:29:20] luminaries. [00:29:22] In your picture, you're showing five, six [00:29:24] different colors in the tubing [00:29:26] or the LED, and then [00:29:28] you just program where you want them. [00:29:30] A lot of us have bought them online [00:29:32] and use them in our, [00:29:34] in our shed or underneath [00:29:36] a walkway where it can, [00:29:38] it can fade, it can blink, [00:29:40] it can do, it can fade from [00:29:42] so many different colors, so [00:29:44] not to get caught that that's only red, [00:29:46] but it looks like in your, in your [00:29:48] thick one there, you could [00:29:50] program it to do, you know, [00:29:52] you could do it green, you could do it five [00:29:54] different shades of green for St. Paddy's, [00:29:56] you could do it green, white, and red [00:29:58] and all that for... [00:30:00] for Christmas, when the parade, [00:30:01] so isn't that the dynamics? [00:30:03] Yes, absolutely. [00:30:04] Absolutely, yes, yes. [00:30:06] And the DMX allows you to do it, [00:30:07] to program it all quite easily. [00:30:10] And there's a lot of different effects. [00:30:12] It's really the latest in technology right now. [00:30:15] So it's become commonplace and more and more. [00:30:18] I'd love to see us get this moving forward on the. [00:30:22] You got consensus? [00:30:23] I think we'll all agree to get the contract drawings [00:30:26] and get it moved on and then see where the pricing comes down. [00:30:30] I would disagree with you. [00:30:32] I would disagree with you. [00:30:36] On the walkway? [00:30:37] Yes. [00:30:37] The walkway, not the stairs. [00:30:39] Well, you're ahead of us sometimes. [00:30:41] Well, we've had drivers create new products for you. [00:30:47] I still have no idea how they get in front of Depot Brady's [00:30:51] over the water connection into, but they did. [00:30:54] Without hitting the standpipes. [00:30:56] I just think if we're going to do all this, [00:31:00] we might as well throw that in there. [00:31:02] Yeah, I'm understanding that. [00:31:04] And that is achievable. [00:31:07] But it sounds to me as if the directive is to do the lighting first. [00:31:12] Is that correct? [00:31:13] Yes. [00:31:14] I would certainly want to get pricing on what Chopper's talking about, too, [00:31:17] which is the walking, to get that done. [00:31:20] Put the lighting in and then up. [00:31:21] This has to move because we have to put something else in. [00:31:25] OK. [00:31:26] That's what we have. [00:31:28] Thank you very much.

   This text was generated automatically from the meeting video. It is not a verbatim or official record. For exact wording, consult the video or the city clerk.

3. 3

   Special Event Guidelines

   discussed

   Staff presented draft special event guidelines developed after meetings with event organizers, residents, merchants, and the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board. Discussion covered event organizer responsibilities, tent permits/inspections and fees, vendor standards, sidewalk setbacks, parking/park-and-ride plans for large events, signage restrictions, and protection of Sims Park. Council provided direction but took no formal action.

   • direction:Council directed staff to continue developing special event guidelines covering tent inspection fees (no fee for 10x10 or smaller), 10-foot vendor setback from sidewalks, parking/park-and-ride plans for large events, signage placement restrictions, and event organizer attendance requirements. (none)

   📍Main Street📍Massachusetts (grocery store)📍Sims Park🏢Community Congregational Church🏢First Methodist🏢Pasco County Public Transportation🏢Ritchie Elementary🏢Winn-Dixie👤Adam👤Ms. Smith#Chasco Fiesta#Christmas Parade#Foghat concert#Loquat Festival#Main Street Blast#Parks and Recreation Advisory Board#Seafood Festival#Special Event Guidelines#park-and-ride plan#tent permit/inspection fees

   ▶ Jump to 31:29 in the video

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   Auto-transcript · machine-generated, may contain errors

   [00:31:29] Thank you. [00:31:30] The next item we've got is special event guidelines, [00:31:34] which I suspect is why people are here. [00:31:36] Miss Smith to join me up at the table because she's [00:31:42] carried the lion's share of work as it relates to this matter. [00:31:47] As I'm sure you will recall, late last year, [00:31:51] we held a work session at which time you communicated to us [00:31:56] an interest in establishing some guidelines as it relates [00:32:00] to special events, both from a public safety perspective [00:32:06] and additionally, protection of the park. [00:32:09] And in that regard, Miss Smith, why don't you [00:32:11] let them know what you've been up to? [00:32:13] Thank you so much. [00:32:15] And as the city manager said, too, at that work session, [00:32:17] we did invite the major event organizers in the city, [00:32:23] residents around the park, as well as the local merchants. [00:32:26] And then following that work session, [00:32:28] we conducted research to investigate [00:32:31] what are the best practices from other agencies, other parks [00:32:34] and recreation agencies that conduct events. [00:32:38] I sent a staff member to attend a special event meeting that [00:32:42] was held with all of the area parks and recreation [00:32:44] departments. [00:32:46] And their specific meeting is for events. [00:32:50] And they talk about issues that occur in their agencies. [00:32:54] And then the group tries to come up, [00:32:56] here's what we've done to solve that. [00:33:00] And then while he was there, he inquired, [00:33:03] do the other agencies have event guidelines? [00:33:07] What we really started with were procedures and policies. [00:33:11] So we were looking more for guidelines. [00:33:13] From there, we held a presentation and discussion [00:33:17] with the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board [00:33:19] about our progress so far and the information [00:33:21] that we had collected and obtained their input [00:33:25] at a meeting with them. [00:33:26] From there, a meeting was held with the special event [00:33:30] team, which has consisted of city staff, [00:33:34] got their concerns for events, what needed to change, [00:33:40] and what needs to happen with the event guidelines. [00:33:44] From there, just recently held another meeting [00:33:48] with just the nonprofit event organizers, [00:33:51] all the ones that hold major events in our city [00:33:54] were invited. [00:33:54] And it was a good turnout for that meeting. [00:33:57] And then that kind of brings us to tonight. [00:34:01] And tonight, again, all the event organizers were invited. [00:34:04] See, there's quite a few that made it. [00:34:06] The special event team requested to be here. [00:34:09] So some of the city staff have attended. [00:34:11] Residents and area merchants were also invited. [00:34:13] Now, while not everybody agreed with every single item, [00:34:18] and I didn't provide you a comprehensive list [00:34:21] of every single discussion point because it would be pages, [00:34:25] I kind of condensed that down to the main points [00:34:27] to give us talking points. [00:34:29] And then we can expand upon that. [00:34:31] But while not everybody agreed with every single item, [00:34:34] there did seem to be a general consensus, especially [00:34:37] at the final meeting that we had, [00:34:39] which was with the event organizers, [00:34:41] that really kind of the vision is [00:34:44] that we hold events in our city that [00:34:48] create a sense of belonging and community pride. [00:34:51] And sort of the unwritten mission or understood mission, [00:34:55] I guess, is to conduct safe, family-friendly events that [00:34:58] provide a positive impact on our residents, area merchants, [00:35:02] visitors, as well as the event organizers. [00:35:05] And while respecting the natural resources [00:35:08] of our city and our parks. [00:35:09] That mission wasn't written by any of these meetings. [00:35:13] It was just kind of a, it's kind of [00:35:16] seemed to be the overshadowing from all the different meetings [00:35:19] that I had because some people obviously [00:35:22] were concerned about the resources of our park [00:35:25] being protected. [00:35:26] Others were, their concern was the safety of visitors to it. [00:35:30] And then, of course, we want the nonprofits and the area [00:35:34] business to benefit from the event. [00:35:35] So that's kind of what got us here tonight. [00:35:39] The outline I provided, again, is not every single comment, [00:35:42] but just kind of some talking points to start with. [00:35:45] And I'll run through those and address any questions [00:35:48] that you have as we go. [00:35:51] It was mentioned that one concern, [00:35:56] and has been an issue with some events, [00:35:58] is that the person that is the event organizer, [00:36:01] the one responsible for the event, [00:36:02] is not always the one that would show up [00:36:04] at the special event team meeting. [00:36:06] And to let you know, those meetings [00:36:08] are with a representative from each department [00:36:11] so that we can better help these event organizers hold [00:36:14] a quality event in the city. [00:36:16] So it's public works, police, fire, my department, [00:36:21] and development attends those, as well as the health [00:36:24] department. [00:36:25] So when the event organizer is not [00:36:27] the one that attends the meeting or the wrap-up session [00:36:31] where we talk about how could we help you better [00:36:34] to prove that event, and then we're [00:36:35] down there for move-in at the event, [00:36:38] and somebody else attended that meeting, [00:36:40] then the event organizer didn't know what was discussed. [00:36:42] And so far, that's where we realized we had issues. [00:36:45] So we really emphasize that whoever they place in charge [00:36:48] needs to be the one consistent to go to that first meeting [00:36:51] and then to be there at the park for move-in [00:36:53] and move-out, as well as vendor inspections, [00:36:56] and then the wrap-up meeting that we have [00:36:57] once the event is over with. [00:37:00] Tent permits and inspections, a lot of discussion on this. [00:37:05] We did find out, actually, it's in our policies, too, [00:37:08] written that events that are larger than 10 by 10 [00:37:14] are the tents that are inspected and assessed a fee. [00:37:19] So the recommendation now is to, and this [00:37:23] is different from what we have in the recent fee ordinance, [00:37:27] but that all tents would still be inspected, [00:37:31] but if they're 10 by 10 or smaller, [00:37:32] there would not be assessed a fee for that inspection. [00:37:34] I brought that up when we went through the discussion [00:37:38] on pricing and stuff, and what it did, [00:37:40] it pretty much set aside any art show that would come here, [00:37:44] because most art shows are 10 by 10s. [00:37:47] So whatever the $25 fee for every tent for an art show [00:37:52] would pretty much nix an art show coming here. [00:37:54] So I think that's a great move. [00:37:56] OK. [00:37:57] Thank you. [00:37:58] If that happened, I'd have lots of crap to say. [00:38:01] And I still have some questions about inspections of tents, [00:38:05] because when you enter a tent that's larger than a 10 by 10, [00:38:09] you've just got to come with a fire retardant certificate. [00:38:12] So really, it's only the placement [00:38:13] of the tent that's a problem after that. [00:38:15] Is that correct? [00:38:15] Or what else are they looking for? [00:38:17] The inspection, and I thought I saw Adam here. [00:38:20] Adam's here. [00:38:20] OK, the expert's here, in case I say something wrong. [00:38:24] But if you're cooking under the tent, [00:38:27] it has to have a current certificate, not something [00:38:30] like on file here at City Hall, but the tent actually [00:38:33] has to have the certificate. [00:38:35] Isn't that correct? [00:38:36] Anybody that would cook underneath a tent's kind [00:38:38] of a little, not doing real smart thinking anyhow, [00:38:43] because a tent doesn't start on fire anyhow. [00:38:45] Fire retardant certificate says it's going to melt. [00:38:48] So it's going to melt onto your food. [00:38:50] It's going to melt onto the people. [00:38:51] And then that also gets into the spacing. [00:38:54] So you can't have more than three tents together. [00:38:57] Well, you have to have a 10 foot. [00:38:59] That's for non-cooking tents. [00:39:00] You have to have a 10 foot space from stake to stake. [00:39:03] So if there is a fire situation, that tent, [00:39:06] it's hopefully contained to the one. [00:39:08] I think the other issue that the tents get inspected for [00:39:11] is that they're weighted, because we don't, yeah. [00:39:15] There's been so many incidents of other areas, other cities [00:39:19] that have had tents. [00:39:21] And you've seen the bounce houses [00:39:23] that have taken off and become airborne [00:39:25] and it's a very dangerous situation. [00:39:27] So we have gone to a, each tent leg has to have [00:39:31] a 15 pound weight on it. [00:39:34] Don't I know that? [00:39:35] That's for 10 by 10s. [00:39:36] That's for all tents. [00:39:38] Well, no, the large tents are staked, right? [00:39:40] Yes, correct. [00:39:41] Yeah, the 10 by 10s type tents, right. [00:39:43] And smaller, eight by eight. [00:39:45] Correct. [00:39:46] Is there any way when you're, [00:39:48] because I know the organizers try to plan the best they can. [00:39:53] But some of their participants, some of the businesses, [00:39:59] some of the people that wanna come aren't as timely as them, [00:40:04] meaning they procrastinate to the nth degree. [00:40:06] And they show up on Friday night. [00:40:08] And when you tell them they can't set up on Saturday, [00:40:10] they throw a tantrum and pitch a fit [00:40:12] and make the organizers' life miserable, [00:40:15] then call us a bunch of names, [00:40:16] and then tell us how they're not gonna do it again [00:40:18] and all that. [00:40:19] I got a really good friend of mine [00:40:21] that caught me at Wrap River last year [00:40:22] and ripped my ear off. [00:40:24] And I'm like, look, be your own time. [00:40:29] Everybody's got stuff they're doing all week, [00:40:32] and last minute's last minute. [00:40:34] Poor planning on your part [00:40:36] isn't something that we try to deal with, [00:40:40] but maybe you can address that in your process [00:40:44] to where you'll allow them a mulligan, [00:40:49] five mulligans at an event. [00:40:52] After five, tell the sixth one, [00:40:54] you missed, you're last one, you're out. [00:40:57] Because at the end of the day, [00:40:58] you're trying to set up, [00:40:59] it's five o'clock in the morning on some cases, [00:41:01] sometimes it's later. [00:41:03] I'm just trying to find a way to try to accommodate, [00:41:06] I guess a big crybaby, but that's just the way it is. [00:41:09] I'm kind of over that. [00:41:11] But obviously, I don't like the organizer getting hampered. [00:41:15] And if there's a set protocol of waiting and all that, [00:41:19] if they show up and it's proper, [00:41:22] then let's kind of make it work, [00:41:24] because in some cases, it's three or four hours max. [00:41:27] Right, right, okay. [00:41:29] Sure, I'm following that. [00:41:31] What weren't you following? [00:41:33] Well, the idea about giving, [00:41:35] who are you giving the mulligan to, [00:41:37] the event coordinator, the tent fellow that's coming? [00:41:40] Yeah, I'm giving it to the event organizer [00:41:43] and whoever's here from the city standpoint. [00:41:45] And usually there's a fire, [00:41:46] there's the guy, the fire department's there. [00:41:49] It's just that they weren't there, [00:41:50] that person wasn't there on Friday [00:41:52] when they were setting up and they show up on Saturday, [00:41:54] and then you get all of it. [00:41:55] And to me, if it's the same protocol [00:41:58] you would use on Thursday or Friday setting up, [00:42:00] it's the same protocol you're gonna use on Saturday morning, [00:42:03] as long as they keep the spacing correct, [00:42:06] do all those kind of things. [00:42:08] I'm just saying that, [00:42:10] if you're looking to tweak this a little bit, [00:42:13] you know, use the worst case scenario, [00:42:15] because aren't you guys, [00:42:16] you guys are there almost throughout, aren't you, Adam? [00:42:20] No. [00:42:24] Gotcha. [00:42:25] But I think that it's my understanding [00:42:27] that if an event is taking place [00:42:30] and the vendors are coming in [00:42:31] and the event coordinator's tracking who comes in, [00:42:33] if there's an appreciable number of them [00:42:36] that don't show up the next day, [00:42:38] they need to have another inspection, which they pay for. [00:42:42] Well, what we do at the set meeting, [00:42:45] and now we've, actually it's on a form [00:42:47] and we have the event organizer [00:42:49] or their representative initial half, [00:42:51] and we filled in the blank, [00:42:52] and it's agreed upon time with that event organizer [00:42:57] and the staff, you know, Adam, [00:42:59] or whoever's doing the inspections, [00:43:00] of what day and what time [00:43:03] those inspections are gonna take place. [00:43:05] So let's say if it's Saturday morning at 9 a.m., [00:43:08] then the event organizer's really encouraged [00:43:10] to do their own inspection at eight [00:43:12] and then make sure everybody's in place [00:43:13] so those inspections go really quickly. [00:43:16] I know that in the past, [00:43:18] staff have been very good about coming back, [00:43:21] but that, you know, then that kind of [00:43:25] drags out a whole day, you know, [00:43:27] where they're having to come back sometimes the next day [00:43:30] because that date and time wasn't met. [00:43:33] I think that we try to get those plans [00:43:38] a week to two in advance. [00:43:42] That's really pretty lenient. [00:43:43] Other departments I looked at, it's 30 days. [00:43:45] And if you don't have the, [00:43:47] if they're not on the list 30 days in advance, they're out. [00:43:50] So we do try to really work with these event organizers, [00:43:53] you know, the staff does, so. [00:43:55] I just, I guess I was just wanting to clarify [00:43:57] so that we, so that all the event organizers [00:44:01] understand what that issue is. [00:44:03] Right. [00:44:04] You know, I'm not sure I understood the Mulligan thing. [00:44:06] I'm not a golfer, so I'm taking it. [00:44:08] I understood what he was saying, I made a note. [00:44:11] Vendors, a lot of discussion about that also too. [00:44:14] And although I'm not really quite sure [00:44:16] exactly what family friendly is, [00:44:18] I mean, I know the gist of that, [00:44:20] but I don't know that I could make a legal determination. [00:44:22] So kind of what was discussed is, [00:44:25] of course, no vendor can violate a city code or ordinance. [00:44:28] And then to kind of go a little further, [00:44:30] the discussion went into, [00:44:32] if it would not be a business allowed [00:44:34] to be on Main Street, for example, [00:44:37] then that wouldn't be a vendor [00:44:39] that we would want to have at the park. [00:44:42] The feeling was to have the events [00:44:45] that families could come to [00:44:48] and not have to worry about something [00:44:49] that might be seen or being given out at a vendor. [00:44:52] And to me, it's just common sense. [00:44:54] I mean, it's gotten better at like the carnival, [00:44:55] which has to go much, much better over the last few years. [00:44:57] But, you know, four or five years ago, [00:44:59] you'd go there. [00:45:00] and these people will be dropping F-bombs left and right, [00:45:03] that the people working the tables and the games, [00:45:06] flicking their cigarette butts all over our park. [00:45:08] Just have some common courtesy and respect [00:45:11] for the facility that you're occupying in. [00:45:14] It's gotten better, but I mean, [00:45:15] of course we're not gonna have strip clubs in the park, [00:45:17] but whatever type of vendor you are, just show respect. [00:45:20] And I think for the most part, they do. [00:45:22] It's good to see. [00:45:23] And I'm not sure who brought this one up, [00:45:25] but there was discussion, and we don't currently do this, [00:45:28] about having a 10-foot setback from the sidewalks. [00:45:31] I understand the reason for it [00:45:34] is because the sidewalks do get very, [00:45:36] this is the sidewalk going around the circle in Sims Park, [00:45:38] and it does get very congested. [00:45:40] If you have people in line trying to cater to, [00:45:44] or trying to patronize that vendor [00:45:47] and purchase food or beverage, [00:45:50] and then the line often backs up [00:45:51] all the way across the sidewalk, [00:45:52] and then people can't get by. [00:45:55] So that was a discussion brought up too [00:45:57] about having the vendors a 10-foot setback [00:46:00] from that sidewalk. [00:46:01] Sidewalk that heads east out of the park. [00:46:06] I would assume that that would then go to all sidewalks. [00:46:09] I mean, if that's the feeling of the council. [00:46:11] I see that more of a problem in that area. [00:46:14] The one coming off a bank? [00:46:15] Right, absolutely. [00:46:17] And then what happens too is some of the vendors [00:46:18] come in with a trailer or a tent or trailer, [00:46:22] and they open up a canopy type of thing, like a metal, [00:46:26] and it sticks head height right across the sidewalk. [00:46:30] And I've seen people trying to duck and weave [00:46:33] to get down into the park. [00:46:35] So we were trying to avoid that too. [00:46:38] And then of course, the 10-foot spacing [00:46:40] that we already have in place between the tents. [00:46:44] Park capacity. [00:46:47] Somebody had brought it up. [00:46:48] It might've been at a council meeting or work session. [00:46:51] I thought it was a great way to express it, [00:46:53] that we're not gaining real estate down there. [00:46:57] In fact, we're losing real estate around the park. [00:46:59] So parking is more and more becoming an issue [00:47:03] with these larger events. [00:47:05] So it was suggested, it hasn't been required. [00:47:08] None of this has been required. [00:47:09] This has all just been discussion points. [00:47:11] But it was suggested that the larger event organizers [00:47:14] prepare a parking or a park and ride type of plan. [00:47:18] For one example, when we host the conference swim meet [00:47:23] at the rec center, we have 800 athletes attend. [00:47:26] I don't have parking for 800. [00:47:28] So what all the staff does is get with the grocery store [00:47:34] down on Massachusetts and request to be able to use [00:47:37] that parking lot. [00:47:38] So I mean, a parking plan could be something [00:47:39] as simple as that. [00:47:41] Doesn't have to be the extent of, or the suggestion [00:47:44] to the extent of offering shuttle service, but it could. [00:47:49] I think for some of the events, Chesco on the weekends, [00:47:54] the Main Street Blast, the Seafood Festival, [00:47:59] just three of them that come immediately to mind. [00:48:03] We probably ought to be talking about park and ride. [00:48:06] And I've got no objection to the city [00:48:09] working with the event organizers to pitch [00:48:13] to Pasco County Public Transportation [00:48:16] that they need to be involved. [00:48:18] Absolutely. [00:48:21] So I just was questioning that same thing. [00:48:23] What constitutes large? [00:48:27] Because there are some events that may have good crowd, [00:48:32] but there are people that are walking into the downtown. [00:48:35] I think it has to do with vehicles. [00:48:36] And I also think it has to do with the length of time [00:48:39] for the event. [00:48:40] Like one example is, Lowquat Festival. [00:48:46] I was gonna say Kumquat. [00:48:47] Lowquat Festival has a large attendance, [00:48:50] but it's a short period of time. [00:48:52] And we have provided overflow parking [00:48:56] within the park for that event. [00:48:58] And it's about two hours and then they're gone. [00:49:00] So it's not a large congestion issue. [00:49:03] There isn't difficulty for people to find parking for that. [00:49:06] If you have a longer event where people are staying [00:49:10] for the day or they're having to walk great distances [00:49:14] to the park because of the footprint of the event itself. [00:49:18] And it's taken over a lot of the downtown parking. [00:49:20] I think that's more of the type of events [00:49:22] we're talking about. [00:49:24] Chesco Street Parade Day is a prime example. [00:49:28] And I will guarantee you, [00:49:31] based on what we saw at the Christmas Parade, [00:49:34] I will absolutely guarantee you [00:49:36] that the community congregational church parking lot [00:49:40] will be completely full. [00:49:42] First Methodist will be completely full. [00:49:45] And there's a pretty good argument that we, [00:49:48] those are right on the periphery [00:49:50] of where you'd want somebody to walk. [00:49:53] But some of these other things, [00:49:55] if Foghat is as big as I think it is [00:49:59] and they pack the park with everything else [00:50:04] that's out there on a night like that, [00:50:06] then maybe we ought to have some sort of shuttle [00:50:11] that gets people from Ritchie Elementary [00:50:13] or from the rec center or even the Winn-Dixie parking lot. [00:50:18] The rec center could be used. [00:50:19] We cooperate when the hospital has some large events [00:50:23] and we're their overflow parking [00:50:24] and they shuttle back and forth, so sure. [00:50:29] Signage, if this was something that, [00:50:33] I didn't identify specific locations [00:50:35] at this point for this meeting, [00:50:36] but if this is the direction that council wishes us to go, [00:50:39] then I can go back and come up with specific locations [00:50:42] within the park of where signage would be allowed. [00:50:46] But from what we were hearing, [00:50:48] there seems to be some issues with signage [00:50:51] and some event organizers, [00:50:54] maybe we haven't communicated as well as we should [00:50:56] about what they can tie banners to and not tie banners to. [00:51:00] So we were just trying to clarify that. [00:51:01] And it seemed to be the feeling was no banners or signs [00:51:05] could be adhered to or tied to any city structure, [00:51:10] picnic shelter, our shade structures. [00:51:13] Where we do make that exception is of course on the stage, [00:51:15] those rafters, and then on the wing walls to the stage. [00:51:18] Those are great for sponsor banners also. [00:51:21] Where I had heard that city council [00:51:23] may not be so interested in seeing [00:51:25] is banners tied on the Hacienda fence facing Main Street [00:51:29] or possibly tied on the fence by the overlook. [00:51:33] Right, so we want to kind of determine [00:51:38] if that is the direction to head. [00:51:40] Then you have events that have been allowed in the past, [00:51:46] two weeks prior to the event to put out yard signs, [00:51:48] the H-frame signs, [00:51:50] and where those would be permissible or not. [00:51:53] We've directed them recently [00:51:54] that those are not permitted on any city right away, [00:51:57] but that we have identified or we do have, [00:52:00] we haven't identified the event organizers yet, [00:52:03] but we do have five locations in the park [00:52:05] and their entry points to the park [00:52:07] that where possibly that signage could be [00:52:09] and it wouldn't be a distraction [00:52:11] of people driving down a street [00:52:13] and then try to read a sign. [00:52:15] So that's kind of where that discussion took place. [00:52:18] We're not looking to any of those signs in the town. [00:52:22] $1,000 for an LED sign, it was our mistake. [00:52:33] In the vinyl signs? [00:52:35] Is that what you're talking about? [00:52:36] The vinyl? [00:52:36] The snipe signs. [00:52:37] The what? [00:52:38] The snipe signs. [00:52:39] The H-frame yard signs. [00:52:40] I mean, I just think they're a chance for some kid [00:52:44] to get in. [00:52:48] I'm confused, are you saying in the park or in the city? [00:52:50] Well, she said there's five places [00:52:52] and leading into the park. [00:52:54] Well, there's five, I'll identify, [00:52:55] and like I said, we haven't expressed this [00:52:57] to the event organizers, [00:52:58] but just my department, [00:53:00] we looked at five possible places [00:53:02] where signs could go that would not be in a city right away [00:53:04] and they're contained within the park itself. [00:53:07] One would be over near the fit zone [00:53:12] as you walk around Orange Lake, [00:53:13] because a lot of people walk around Orange Lake. [00:53:15] Because we were trying to look at, too, [00:53:16] what was going to help the event organizers market [00:53:19] and promote their events. [00:53:21] And then also looking at not wanting to drive [00:53:24] around the city and see a snipe sign every intersection. [00:53:28] So we were trying to come up with a happy medium. [00:53:30] So that would be one location. [00:53:33] Another would be within the park [00:53:33] as you come off the entrance off of Main Street. [00:53:36] And then as you come in off of Bank Street [00:53:40] where you cross that, [00:53:42] where the new crosswalk was painted, [00:53:45] that within the park, though not by the road, [00:53:47] so that would be three. [00:53:49] One by the restrooms, because they're always very busy. [00:53:51] And then the fifth one would be down by, [00:53:55] off the parking lot, [00:53:56] as there's a sidewalk coming in off of Shelter 5. [00:53:59] So that hit five locations. [00:54:01] Those are five entry points into the park. [00:54:03] They're not on roadways. [00:54:05] So we were trying to look at how we could [00:54:08] help support the events, promote their event, [00:54:11] but then not be a nuisance-type sign for residents. [00:54:16] I personally don't have an issue with the vinyl signs [00:54:18] like hanging from the Saracen Tower railing. [00:54:20] I mean, I think it's a good place to hang a sign. [00:54:22] Do y'all, what do y'all say? [00:54:26] I mean, let's use Chasco as an example. [00:54:28] It's the longest event. [00:54:29] I mean, eight, nine days. [00:54:31] Did they put them up two weeks before the event? [00:54:34] During the event? [00:54:36] Well, I think it's my understanding [00:54:38] that they have to be down within three, [00:54:40] I mean, that was just my, [00:54:41] I thought they need to come down. [00:54:43] 24 hours is supposed to be after the event. [00:54:46] Now, what has been allowed to, [00:54:49] is, and I don't see any issues with this. [00:54:51] I don't think anybody would have issues with this. [00:54:54] On the bicycle barricades that go up, [00:54:57] like for the parade routes, [00:54:58] often event organizers will put [00:55:00] their sponsor banners along those. [00:55:03] They're just up right before the parade [00:55:05] and they come down right after the parade. [00:55:07] So, they're not something that's up for weeks. [00:55:09] And within the park, within the event, [00:55:13] the barricades that go in front of the stage? [00:55:16] Sure. [00:55:17] The banners are really up there. [00:55:17] Absolutely, because that's not a city structure. [00:55:19] Right. [00:55:21] The fence on Old Main, and as it curves around, [00:55:26] that seems to be a logical place for signage. [00:55:30] But, going back to the snipe signs, [00:55:32] or those little signs, are you suggesting [00:55:34] that they not be in the city at all? [00:55:37] Well, actually, the city sign ordinance, [00:55:41] it calls for, it calls them lollipop signs, [00:55:45] which I believe is a one-stake sign. [00:55:47] That is not permitted, and these are H-frames. [00:55:50] So, you know, I'm not sure. [00:55:52] The reason I'm asking that is, [00:55:55] there are single lollipop signs. [00:55:58] They're the same thing, except it comes down, [00:56:00] it's a Y, and you still put the same thing. [00:56:02] It's just how they're built, it's a thing. [00:56:05] But, I'm thinking of, like, all the activity [00:56:07] that goes on in our city, those are the most [00:56:11] inexpensive ways for people. [00:56:13] I'm thinking of the United Methodist Church, [00:56:15] they do their pumpkin patch, and I personally [00:56:19] don't have an issue with it if they're there [00:56:21] and they're taken down immediately [00:56:23] after the event, or whatever. [00:56:24] The signs that say, you know, for rent, [00:56:27] or, you know, whatever, definitely not. [00:56:29] But specific to an event, and it was my understanding [00:56:35] that that was allowed once the event got approved [00:56:39] and not before, and then it was a certain amount [00:56:43] of time, you know, afterwards for them to come down. [00:56:46] And so, thinking in terms, again, of all the activities [00:56:50] that go on in our city, not just the special events [00:56:53] in the park, and I'm thinking of lots of non-profits. [00:56:56] Like, there's church groups, or whatever, [00:56:59] that have, even us, we had a sign that said, [00:57:02] well, maybe it wasn't us, it was the folks [00:57:04] that were renting our thing for the quilt show. [00:57:07] I think those are, I think those are very, [00:57:09] I don't have a problem with them, yeah. [00:57:10] I don't have a problem with them, yeah. [00:57:11] Have we had any issues, I mean, any kids, [00:57:14] I just got back from a soccer tournament in Largo, [00:57:15] and there was probably 2,000 kids that walked by [00:57:19] one of those signs all day long, promoting, [00:57:22] you know, fair sportsmanship and all that, [00:57:23] and I didn't see one kid pick it up [00:57:25] and try to stab anyone with it, [00:57:26] or have we had issues in the past? [00:57:28] Not that I'm aware of, no. [00:57:31] But as a follow-up, if you'll allow me, [00:57:35] although they're very much a part of our community culture, [00:57:38] they are a violation of our sign ordinance. [00:57:40] So, you as a group need to decide [00:57:43] whether they're acceptable and helpful, [00:57:46] or whether they should continue to be prohibited. [00:57:51] Understanding. [00:57:52] But we make them acceptable for people [00:57:54] to run for political office if they pay a fee, [00:57:56] and then have to, it's timely to put them out [00:57:58] and pick them up, so, and I will tell people [00:58:01] that once you serve a period, you're a non-profit. [00:58:04] You're a non-profit. [00:58:06] You got more hours in than you're being compensated for, [00:58:10] which is your own choice, but at the end of the day, [00:58:13] if, I would think that it's the most inexpensive way, [00:58:19] if you got your timings down right, [00:58:22] and it's the best way to communicate to the public, [00:58:25] because you can't move that digital sign around [00:58:28] as much as you would like, [00:58:29] especially when you put it behind a tree, [00:58:31] but that's another story for another day, [00:58:33] but I just think that if consensus, [00:58:37] you know, three beats two always has on this council, [00:58:40] that if you like it, and we need to tweak something [00:58:43] in the ordinance, then tweak it, [00:58:45] because we do it all the time, but. [00:58:48] Why don't we separate the discussion of the signs? [00:58:50] What brought this about in my mind negatively [00:58:57] is there must have been 20 signs for an event in the park [00:59:00] between the bridge and in downtown. [00:59:09] Sure, it's overkill. [00:59:12] Right. [00:59:13] Absolutely is. [00:59:14] In that. [00:59:15] And I just kind of followed the other signs, [00:59:17] and it just, you know, [00:59:20] I think anybody can stab anything, [00:59:22] but outside the bathrooms and near the splash pad. [00:59:26] Wretched over, wretched overkill [00:59:28] in the number of signs is an issue. [00:59:30] And hurt them, hurt them, so. [00:59:30] Well, without question, Elaine's got a really eager staff, [00:59:34] and they were eager to promote special events, [00:59:39] and they might have overposted, [00:59:41] so it sounds like she's suggesting less signage [00:59:46] if they were restricted to certain areas of the park. [00:59:51] And we'll revisit this and come back with this one. [00:59:54] All right? [00:59:55] Okay, next one, then set up the concert venue, [00:59:58] and that's the grass area. [01:00:00] in front of the amphitheater stage. [01:00:03] There's been a lot of discussion about this too, [01:00:05] so we wanted to get this identified [01:00:06] that the same rules apply there, [01:00:09] that nothing can be set up within 10 feet [01:00:13] of the city structures, which are the shade structures, [01:00:16] or underneath them, and also that it's kind of been [01:00:19] staff's understanding that those shade structures [01:00:22] were built for the public use, [01:00:24] and would not be areas that would be reserved [01:00:28] for an event organizer, for an event booth. [01:00:32] The one exception was when there was a private rental [01:00:36] at the park, and that was for the first time this year, [01:00:38] we had Freedom Fest, and they had reserved [01:00:41] and had a private dinner for the veterans [01:00:45] and entertainment on the stage, [01:00:47] and had barricaded that whole area off, [01:00:49] and it wasn't a public venue at that point. [01:00:51] So at that point, of course, they were permitted [01:00:53] to set up underneath those shade structures. [01:00:55] I do apologize for my typo there on the last sentence. [01:00:58] That should be staked. [01:00:59] I got a little type, a little extra C in there. [01:01:02] But, yeah, sorry about that. [01:01:06] I called it too late. [01:01:08] And then, that because of the irrigation system [01:01:11] and all that too, that no staking of, [01:01:13] well, really it would be a preference [01:01:15] not to have large tents at all in that area. [01:01:18] Understanding that sound production, of course, [01:01:21] for concerts, they have to cover their equipment, [01:01:25] and those are usually eight-by-eight or 10-by-10 tents, [01:01:27] and as long as they're off to the side, that's fine. [01:01:30] Where this is gonna be the, [01:01:32] I guess this is where the event organizers may object [01:01:36] is when they want to put a VIP tent up [01:01:40] in front of the stage area, even or off to the side, [01:01:42] and that's where we would receive public complaint [01:01:45] because people couldn't see sitting behind that tent. [01:01:49] So that's part of where this all generated from. [01:01:52] There, I've dealt with that quite a bit with John, [01:01:56] and there's really only one area [01:01:58] that he allows staked tents in that, inside the circle, [01:02:03] and that would be on the riverside [01:02:05] close to the access to the parking lot. [01:02:07] And it's also because of the irrigation system [01:02:12] that we're not totally sure where it's at, [01:02:15] but that's a small area, probably 20-by-30. [01:02:18] But that's been used in the past, [01:02:21] and I'm saying that, and it's used as a VIP area. [01:02:24] I mean, it's off the stage, it's not people in the front. [01:02:28] Well, there is an event, though, [01:02:30] that does use that inner park with the VIP tent, [01:02:33] and it's not staked, it's weighted. [01:02:34] But the challenge I have with that is [01:02:39] the event organizer or the event or whomever [01:02:43] are paying for the park. [01:02:45] And yes, it is open to the public, [01:02:47] but if the sponsor is stroking a check [01:02:51] for the bulk of the event, I just, [01:02:56] I'm stymied as to why then we would get involved [01:03:00] with who can sit where. [01:03:02] So that would be the point that I have about that one. [01:03:07] I'd like to reinvestigate that a little more. [01:03:09] Sure, absolutely. [01:03:11] Okay, golf carts and ATVs, I think the understanding, [01:03:16] some events have gotten, [01:03:17] and this is really more for the event organizers [01:03:19] than people coming to the event. [01:03:21] There was some discussion of that also, [01:03:23] but that some events have gotten a little out of hand [01:03:25] with the number of golf carts, [01:03:27] and some of the event organizers even said that, [01:03:29] that they had too many. [01:03:31] So they understand. [01:03:32] I mean, I was really pleased with the meeting [01:03:35] because the event organizers did really seem [01:03:37] to have a great understanding and interest [01:03:40] in helping us keep Sims Park looking beautiful. [01:03:44] And the knowing that we want to work with them too, [01:03:46] so they have a quality event. [01:03:48] So there was really good back and forth discussion with that [01:03:51] but that just looking at reducing those numbers. [01:03:54] And I think that's something as a set team [01:03:57] that we'll be able to work with those event organizers [01:03:59] to make that happen. [01:04:00] And maybe to even be able to, [01:04:02] there was discussion of being able to tag certain golf carts [01:04:07] so we know that that is part of that event, [01:04:09] and they're either running money or picking up trash. [01:04:13] And that's really the only two needs for the golf carts, [01:04:15] not just to transport event people around the park, so. [01:04:21] And then the last one is, [01:04:23] and there was a lot of mixed feeling on this also. [01:04:26] And in fact, this final recommendation, [01:04:29] not the cost so much, but came from my advisory board. [01:04:33] There was some feeling in some of the meetings [01:04:35] that the city has a potential loss of revenue [01:04:37] for some of the large events, [01:04:39] because our shade structures and Peace Hall even too [01:04:42] has gotten so popular now [01:04:44] that I don't think we have a single weekend [01:04:46] that there's not at least two or three of them. [01:04:48] Most weekends, they're all rented. [01:04:50] So when we have those large events [01:04:52] that they may not be using those shade structures, [01:04:54] but their event footprint is so large [01:04:57] that people can't get to them. [01:04:58] We've had to actually go into the calendar as staff [01:05:02] and block out and not let people rent the shade structures [01:05:07] during these large events [01:05:09] because people can pay for them online now. [01:05:11] It's a great thing, but then it's a problem [01:05:13] because they reserve it on their own and pay for it. [01:05:16] And then they just show up and then we would get the call. [01:05:19] You didn't tell me there was this big festival going on [01:05:22] and it was loud and I'm trying to have my birthday party. [01:05:25] So we try to look at that and go in and block out dates [01:05:30] that at least we let people know ahead of time, [01:05:33] hey, you have your party going, [01:05:35] but there's gonna be this music festival [01:05:37] that you could get to it. [01:05:38] Some of the events you can't even get to Peace Hall. [01:05:41] You can't get to the shade structures [01:05:43] because of the size of the event. [01:05:44] So my advisor was the one that came up with [01:05:47] for those long events that run [01:05:49] more than just two or three days, [01:05:52] not to charge them through the week [01:05:53] because that's not our busy time anyway, [01:05:56] but to maybe come up with a reduced rate for the weekend. [01:05:59] So these were just some suggestions. [01:06:01] When I met with event organizers, [01:06:02] I didn't actually give them calls to that time, [01:06:05] but they seem to have an understanding too [01:06:08] that they understand that the city [01:06:10] does have a potential loss of revenue there. [01:06:12] The benefit for them would be, [01:06:14] and I didn't mention this to them, [01:06:16] is of course, if they're paying for Peace Hall [01:06:18] at that reduced rate, then they get to use Peace Hall. [01:06:21] A lot of times the event organizers as part of their event [01:06:25] do rent Peace Hall for a meet and greet [01:06:28] or different functions and we charge them [01:06:29] at the full rental rate for that. [01:06:31] So now they would be able to have access [01:06:33] that actually is a reduced rate. [01:06:35] I could just mention that. [01:06:36] Can you say that that's, let's say one of the shade, [01:06:39] excuse me, not the shade, [01:06:40] so it's one of the picnic shelters. [01:06:42] Yeah, not shade shelters. [01:06:43] So would the event have the option to rent that out? [01:06:48] That would be if that's what council's interested in. [01:06:51] I mean, saying if they're paying for it, [01:06:53] then if they want to rent. Yeah, they surely could. [01:06:54] Yeah, if they want to rent it out. [01:06:57] Right, same as Peace Hall. [01:06:59] To anybody, I mean, if somebody wants to. [01:07:02] To make it like a vendor booth. [01:07:03] Yeah, yeah, exactly. [01:07:05] Or just some other group. [01:07:08] I don't know how conducive it would be for a vendor booth [01:07:10] because you can't move the picnic table in there, [01:07:12] the tables. [01:07:12] Well, I'm not to say a vendor, [01:07:14] but I'm just saying. [01:07:15] And they couldn't tie anything to it? [01:07:17] The Boy Scouts want to come in there [01:07:18] and take that whole section and rent it from, [01:07:21] I mean, just as long as that option, [01:07:23] I would like that option to be available. [01:07:24] If they have to pay for it, then they have the rent. [01:07:26] To use it. [01:07:27] Yeah, to rent it. [01:07:29] And so they might, you know, [01:07:31] a non-profit might make, you know, [01:07:34] the money back that they had to pay for that booth. [01:07:37] Yeah, a non-profit. [01:07:38] If I could just insert one quick thing. [01:07:40] So if an organizer is not going to use Peace Hall, [01:07:45] I'm assuming that part of the cost for that [01:07:47] is the cleanup of Peace Hall. [01:07:50] So if an event organizer's not going to use Peace Hall, [01:07:54] but we're going to charge them [01:07:55] because we're losing revenue, [01:07:56] then I think there should be a discounted rate [01:07:58] that they're charged. [01:07:59] Because built into that, I believe, [01:08:02] is the cost for either setup or teardown [01:08:05] or cleanup or whatever. [01:08:06] We cut, the recommendation is, [01:08:09] and this is completely just as a talking point, [01:08:11] because, you know, council could say [01:08:12] don't charge them anything or charge them more. [01:08:15] We did a half price reduced rate. [01:08:17] And there is not a cleaning fee associated with that. [01:08:21] Because if you do a normal rental, [01:08:23] you actually have to pay a damaged deposit. [01:08:25] And then if you don't clean it up, [01:08:27] then we keep that deposit. [01:08:29] So that's not included in this at all. [01:08:32] That's why I say, you could, you know, [01:08:34] they could come to the event and say, [01:08:36] rent it at Peace Hall at half the rate [01:08:38] they would come to the city. [01:08:39] So the event could then make out. [01:08:44] I don't have a problem with any of that. [01:08:47] Any other comments? [01:08:51] Anybody from events? [01:08:55] Want to say something? [01:08:56] Come on down. [01:08:59] If you're going to come down, come down to the front [01:09:06] so we can get this wrapped up. [01:09:08] Go ahead. [01:09:09] Kristen King, I did the Pasco Upcycle and Art Festival. [01:09:12] And in regards to the different pavilions and gazebos, [01:09:17] I actually had a birthday party at my event. [01:09:20] And I was like, okay, if y'all want to be here, [01:09:22] that's awesome. [01:09:24] But I don't mind if somebody, [01:09:26] if I don't have to use that gazebo or pavilion, [01:09:29] then, you know, I don't mind if somebody comes in [01:09:32] and has a birthday party there. [01:09:33] But I also don't feel like I should be charged [01:09:36] if I'm not going to use it. [01:09:37] And, you know, I have a six hour event. [01:09:40] So I guess my question is, [01:09:41] so how do you, is that going to be a blanket thing [01:09:43] with everybody that everybody has to take out [01:09:46] the entire park? [01:09:47] Or is it a day thing? [01:09:48] Or is it a size thing? [01:09:50] Your footprint. [01:09:51] If your footprint includes that banjo or that. [01:09:55] That area, yeah. [01:09:56] That area, then you're going to be paying for it. [01:09:58] If your event doesn't include that footprint. [01:10:02] Kristen had about 100 vendors, I think. [01:10:04] So hers was a large footprint. [01:10:08] If it's in the footprint, then you're going to pay for it. [01:10:11] If it's not in the footprint. [01:10:14] But like, there's people that might still, [01:10:16] I mean, like if you open it up then, [01:10:18] and people are like, oh, okay, [01:10:19] well, if you want to rent it out for a birthday party, [01:10:21] if somebody's willing to rent it out for, [01:10:25] why am I getting charged for it [01:10:26] if somebody's willing to use it, I guess is my question. [01:10:29] Well, the. [01:10:30] Yeah, I think that was. [01:10:31] It becomes under your jurisdiction. [01:10:33] Do you want, they're paying you instead of paying us. [01:10:38] I don't know that. [01:10:38] I think what she's saying is if people [01:10:41] rent the shelter anyway with her event going on. [01:10:45] Part of the reason this came up [01:10:46] is because of the complaints we've received. [01:10:47] So if somebody went online and didn't realize, [01:10:51] you know, Kristen's event, it was a great event, [01:10:53] but it was a large event, [01:10:54] and didn't realize they were in there [01:10:56] and were able to rent the shelter, [01:10:57] and then they come to us and they want a refund [01:10:59] because they had their party, [01:11:01] but they were upset because they couldn't play in the field [01:11:05] or there was this music and, you know. [01:11:07] We have that on the website that, you know, [01:11:10] this date, if you're looking at it, [01:11:11] this event is taking place and let them decide [01:11:14] whether they want to do it or not. [01:11:15] I mean, there are events at the park that people come, [01:11:18] the kids come and they go into the splash pond [01:11:20] and then they're in the shelter. [01:11:23] I don't know who then polices tell people get out of it [01:11:26] because we're not, you know, [01:11:27] the event is not using it necessarily, but people are. [01:11:29] I don't know that the, I could look at that for sure [01:11:32] to see if the webpage lets us post a notice like that, [01:11:35] but what we've started doing is going back [01:11:38] and looking after somebody reserved it [01:11:40] and then contacting them and saying, [01:11:42] we just want to be sure you're aware [01:11:43] that this is going on in the park that day. [01:11:45] Just so it's well noticed. [01:11:47] Right. [01:11:48] Okay. [01:11:49] As part of a birthday party, [01:11:49] they may enjoy the fact that there's music [01:11:51] and other entertainment. [01:11:52] Well, and there's, you know, you're talking about, [01:11:54] there's the one shelter, you know, closest by the river [01:11:57] and then you've got some shelters that by the splash pad [01:12:00] and then you've got the gazebo. [01:12:02] And so we, as event holders, [01:12:03] we're also paying to rent that park out. [01:12:06] Plus we're paying an amphitheater rental fee. [01:12:08] And I feel like, you know, there's certain things too, [01:12:11] like how many times are you going to charge us [01:12:13] to use the same type of area as well? [01:12:15] Plus we have to pay for staffing for all of it. [01:12:16] So. [01:12:17] Good points. [01:12:18] Thank you. [01:12:19] Next. [01:12:20] What's the role of the gazebo doing? [01:12:23] We do not charge for the gazebo. [01:12:25] It is on the footprint or the property [01:12:30] of the historical society, [01:12:32] but we do check with them if we do have a request [01:12:34] for like wedding photos or so forth. [01:12:36] And we do reserve it, but we don't charge for it. [01:12:40] Chip Wichmanowski, West Pasco Chamber of Commerce. [01:12:45] Question I have is the tent. [01:12:47] It's one, two couple of questions. [01:12:48] One is why are we getting charged for a 10 by 20? [01:12:51] And I'm not smart enough to know this, [01:12:52] that that doesn't have cooking. [01:12:54] If we're not charging for a 10 by 10, [01:12:57] why are we getting charged for a 10 by 20? [01:13:00] I understand the need to inspect, [01:13:02] especially if they're cooking [01:13:03] and make sure everything's all set. [01:13:04] So just addressing that, [01:13:06] it doesn't have to be answered right this minute, [01:13:08] but at some point in time they could answer that. [01:13:11] And then we don't rent the park is what I've been told. [01:13:14] We're renting the amphitheater and we rent Peace Hall. [01:13:17] And now we're saying we're going to rent the shelters. [01:13:21] But I understand we're trying to limit [01:13:24] the number of vendors. [01:13:25] We're trying to maintain the beauty of Sims Park. [01:13:28] I too want that to be maintained, but rent the park to us. [01:13:32] Charge the fee that gives us the ability [01:13:34] to use the park for what we want to. [01:13:36] And if we want to sell a sponsor $5,000 [01:13:39] to be under the shade, [01:13:40] they can be under the shade for $5,000. [01:13:43] That's all I'm saying is let's set a fee [01:13:45] for renting the park, not just the amphitheater [01:13:49] and move that direction. [01:13:51] Just to address it real quick, [01:13:52] and I get where you're coming from, [01:13:53] but depending on the vendor [01:13:55] or what person you're dealing with, [01:13:58] like we've had complaints in the past where a jogger, [01:14:01] I don't even remember what event. [01:14:02] It was Bike Fest and our security wouldn't let the person in [01:14:06] because they thought we weren't corrected. [01:14:08] If you are renting the park, [01:14:10] so just when I rent a house or my office space, [01:14:14] I control what happens in there. [01:14:16] So I guess my question to you would be, [01:14:19] if we're renting you the park, how do we monitor? [01:14:22] What perception out of maybe hundreds of people [01:14:26] that are in there being vendors are part of the event? [01:14:29] Well, we rent the park. [01:14:30] We can do this now, you know what I mean, compared to? [01:14:33] And I know where you're coming from, [01:14:34] and I appreciate that. [01:14:35] I think that's all something that's set up in the lease [01:14:38] that you talk about, [01:14:39] that we're not going to stop people [01:14:41] from jogging in the morning. [01:14:42] That's not the intent of what we're trying to set up. [01:14:44] I'm talking more about where we can hang a sign, [01:14:47] where people can set up a tent, et cetera, [01:14:51] so that we get the maximum for our dollars. [01:14:54] And the city can actually charge enough [01:14:56] that covers all of that as opposed to 300 for this, [01:15:00] for that, et cetera. [01:15:01] Here's the cost. [01:15:02] And then we talk about, okay, what is it [01:15:04] that you want us to be able to do? [01:15:06] And our community has to have the ability to go in there. [01:15:09] But during Bike Fest, for example, [01:15:11] I don't know anybody that has ever come in [01:15:13] and decided they're gonna have a birthday party [01:15:15] at one of the shelters, okay? [01:15:17] I don't think that's going to happen. [01:15:18] So we were always under the impression [01:15:20] we were renting the park. [01:15:21] We're not. [01:15:22] We're renting those particular structures. [01:15:24] So just put it all together into one package [01:15:26] and then we can make the decision from there. [01:15:28] Thank you. [01:15:29] Next. [01:15:33] Al Renato with Chasco Fiesta. [01:15:36] I have just two concerns. [01:15:38] One of them just came when we got the guidelines. [01:15:41] We weren't discussing the workshops [01:15:43] and that's the 10-foot setback. [01:15:45] I think the 10-foot setback is excessive. [01:15:49] Currently, we have Chasco set up now [01:15:50] with a five-foot setback. [01:15:52] We had a five-foot setback last year [01:15:54] and it seemed to work just well. [01:15:56] People line up parallel to the vendor tent. [01:16:00] The other thing to consider is [01:16:01] if you go with a 10-foot setback, [01:16:03] that you're gonna lose more grass [01:16:05] because now there's more traffic going across more grass. [01:16:09] When you have a 10-foot setback, [01:16:11] we looked at the park during the setup. [01:16:13] We're gonna lose a lot of spots [01:16:15] because a 10-foot setback is gonna put us [01:16:17] back up to some trees where we can't put tents. [01:16:20] It's gonna push two tents too close together [01:16:23] so we don't have a 10-foot setback. [01:16:25] If you could please reconsider the 10-foot setback [01:16:28] and maybe go with the five. [01:16:30] If you wanna see how it looks at the park now [01:16:32] and how we make out the next 10 days, [01:16:36] it'll give you a guideline. [01:16:37] I don't think we were going back in time. [01:16:40] I think you were suggesting a new template in the future, [01:16:44] not this week. [01:16:45] No, no, it's not. [01:16:46] Alan and I had talked. [01:16:47] Yeah, we talked. [01:16:48] I'm concerned about the future. [01:16:49] Obviously, we all think that 10 feet is, [01:16:52] I don't think it's excessive. [01:16:53] I think it might be undoable, but not excessive. [01:16:57] So, you know, there's a happy median in between [01:17:00] and you can work that out over the next. [01:17:03] Yeah, let's look at it. [01:17:04] Just take another look at it. [01:17:05] Yeah, continue to observe it. [01:17:07] Yeah, I think it was an arbitrary number that was picked. [01:17:10] Yeah, it was brought up at the meeting, [01:17:12] the last meeting of the event organizers. [01:17:13] And Alan and I talked since these notes were sent out [01:17:16] that it would not be fair to impose that on them [01:17:20] because we've already had the set meeting and all that. [01:17:21] So absolutely, you know, Chaska was fine with a five foot. [01:17:25] This was just discussion points. [01:17:27] Yeah, and if we just consider for the future too. [01:17:29] Right. [01:17:30] And the other quickie I have is, [01:17:32] when you come up with the signage [01:17:35] and areas that we can put the signs, [01:17:36] remember that, please keep in mind that [01:17:39] these events are created through sponsorships [01:17:43] and those sponsorships require advertising. [01:17:46] And if we can't put banners in certain places, [01:17:48] it's gonna kill some of the sponsorships. [01:17:50] So just be cognizant of that. [01:17:53] Thank you very much. [01:17:54] In deference to getting this place turned around [01:17:56] for the next meeting, [01:17:59] that'll be starting at seven o'clock or shortly thereafter, [01:18:02] we'll adjourn this and keep going. [01:18:07] Quickly, Kelly. [01:18:10] Hi, most of these events are talking about the park, [01:18:11] but I'd like to just make two points [01:18:13] about downtown events, if I could. [01:18:16] Number one, communication with your businesses [01:18:18] regarding events is very important. [01:18:20] I still have not received road closure information [01:18:22] for an event that's closing our streets this weekend, [01:18:25] which I'm understanding from previous events [01:18:27] that I've done is required [01:18:29] by the special event applications. [01:18:32] We aren't getting those notifications [01:18:33] until two or three days before an event takes place. [01:18:35] So the business owners have a very hard time [01:18:38] trying to support these events [01:18:39] when they don't have notification of the events in downtown. [01:18:42] And then my other issue is, with vendors in downtown, [01:18:46] I know we only have one or two events [01:18:47] that currently close the streets, [01:18:49] especially in my district, [01:18:50] but when they put in site plans, [01:18:52] they really need to make sure [01:18:53] that those vendors stick to those site plans [01:18:55] and not block the existing businesses that are here at 365. [01:18:59] Every year, I have an issue with it. [01:19:01] Every year, my neighbors have issues with it, [01:19:03] and we end up getting in fights with event organizers, [01:19:05] and that's not our goal. [01:19:07] So Elaine, I don't know if there's something we can do [01:19:09] when we address downtown business events taking place, [01:19:13] but, you know, oh, he knows. [01:19:17] Absolutely, that is something we're looking at, too. [01:19:18] Those are just two things that, [01:19:20] in talking to the other business owners, [01:19:21] that we're just having some issues with the events. [01:19:23] We love the events and want to support them, [01:19:25] but, you know, I don't even know [01:19:27] when the road closes on Saturday [01:19:28] to know if I should open my business or not [01:19:30] or what we should do, [01:19:31] and this is an event that's three days away. [01:19:32] Got a gentleman right there from Chasco. [01:19:34] I know. Take it up with him. [01:19:35] I used to run Chasco, [01:19:36] so I'm assuming it's the exact same way, [01:19:37] but the reality is is I'm only one [01:19:39] of how many umpteen businesses downtown [01:19:42] that should be notified. [01:19:43] Thank you. [01:19:44] I didn't get the notice to us, so. [01:19:49] All right, we will reconvene seven-ish.

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4. 4Adjournment