On the agenda

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   Parks and Recreation Master Plan Needs Assessment

   discussed

   David Barth of Barth and Associates presented interim findings from the Parks and Recreation Master Plan Needs Assessment, identifying top priorities as fixing up existing parks and adding trails, off-leash dog parks, neighborhood parks, and natural areas, with adult fitness/wellness as a top program priority. Council discussed level of service metrics, demographics (including planning for future families being attracted to the city), and how to count facilities like the river, Grape Reserve, and school-leased fields. No formal action was taken; this was an interim discussion to guide the next visioning phase.

   📍Grape Reserve📍Pine Hill Park🏢Barth and Associates🏢Florida Recreation and Parks Association🏢National Recreation and Parks Association🏢PAL🏢Swetman👤Councilman Phillips👤David Barth👤Elaine#CRA Plan#Capital Improvements Element#Comprehensive Plan#Level of Service (LOS) analysis#Needs Assessment#Parks and Recreation Master Plan#Pro Ranges database#State Comprehensive Outdoor Recreation Plan (SCORP)

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   [00:00:15] Here. [00:00:16] I think the first and last item on the agenda is for you to bring to us. [00:00:30] Okay, as you are all aware, Mr. David Barth is in attendance this evening representing [00:00:40] Barth and Associates, the firm that we have been working with to establish our Parks and [00:00:48] Rec Master Plan, and he is here this evening to report some of his interim findings to [00:00:54] you and to discuss the needs assessment. [00:00:57] And with that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Barth. [00:00:59] I'm going to point at that screen, right? [00:01:02] Do you want to come around here? [00:01:05] I would. [00:01:06] I'd like to. [00:01:07] Thank you all, by the way, for attending the workshop on Saturday. [00:01:11] That was very helpful, and we enjoyed having you be there. [00:01:16] So the purpose tonight is to tell you the findings from the needs assessment. [00:01:21] You received the draft report, and it's not, you know, as you know, it's a Word document. [00:01:26] It's nothing fancy, but the idea was to give you an interim report of what we found out, [00:01:31] and then to see what comments you have before we move forward on creating the vision based [00:01:37] on the needs assessment, and talk about next steps, and I am told that the most important [00:01:43] thing is to make sure we're done in time for you to have dinner, so I'll take 20 minutes [00:01:49] to present, and then you can interrupt me if you want to ask questions, but I'll just [00:01:53] take you through kind of big ah-hahs. [00:01:55] So this is our agenda. [00:01:58] Just a reminder of the overall master plan, in case you don't remember all the details, [00:02:03] and then take you through the findings from the needs assessment, right, so all these [00:02:08] are all the different techniques, and then just wrap it up with a summary, okay? [00:02:12] So just a reminder, this project was not about fixing something that's broken, so you've [00:02:19] got all these great accolades, you have a system that's much beloved by the community, [00:02:24] you're doing great things, Elaine did this wonderful article for the Florida Recreation [00:02:29] Parks Association about a lot of the good things that you're doing, not just in parks [00:02:32] but also in police and planning and public works, and so what you asked us to do in essence [00:02:38] was come up with a long-range plan, you know, how do you figure out spending priorities, [00:02:42] how do you figure out what your system looks like in the future, taking into account all [00:02:47] those things up there, but the main idea is how do you make sure that you're planning [00:02:52] and designing a system over time that's being responsive to the needs of the community, [00:02:56] that's kind of the whole reason we do it. [00:03:00] So we talked about this before, the master planning process is pretty much a strategic [00:03:04] planning process where you start with understanding the existing system, and then what are the [00:03:09] needs of the community, and then what's the appropriate response to those needs, and the [00:03:14] reason we have a meeting like tonight is we want to hesitate between the needs assessment [00:03:18] and the vision to make sure that we're all on the same page, and the reason we had the [00:03:23] workshop on Saturday, it was a little bit out of order, but we had the vision workshop [00:03:26] was the same reason, we wanted to get some discussion about what's the appropriate response [00:03:31] before we move forward, so this is kind of a continuation. [00:03:36] Based on your input, then we'll move forward and we'll develop a draft vision, and we'll [00:03:40] say let's make improvements here, and let's make these kinds of improvements here, and [00:03:44] then we'll cost it out, and then we'll work with staff to figure out what's a realistic [00:03:49] implementation strategy, and so you know, how many years should it take, what's a reasonable [00:03:53] amount of money, et cetera, so that's the overall flow, and we wrap it up into a good [00:03:59] looking document beyond just the Word document that you received so far, all right? [00:04:05] So that's the process, and that's the process on the schedule, so we're right on time. [00:04:09] We have on there that we'll be back in front of you probably in late March, early April, [00:04:14] but we have to decide what's the appropriate time, so we haven't fixed that yet. [00:04:19] Any questions about process, methodology, good to go? [00:04:23] All right, so we're going to talk purely about the needs assessment, and I told Elaine that [00:04:30] oftentimes when we talk about all these different techniques, people zero in on a certain technique, [00:04:35] and the approach I take is you've hired us to be researchers, and we use these different [00:04:40] techniques and try to figure out what they're telling us, so when we pull them together, [00:04:44] we can say here's what we're hearing as the top priority needs. [00:04:47] It's the aggregate of all these techniques, not what any one technique says. [00:04:51] The only exception is the statistically valid survey is the most representative technique [00:04:58] that we have. [00:04:59] It reaches the greatest number of people, it's random, but what we're looking for is [00:05:03] do we see a common theme among all these different needs assessment techniques that tells us [00:05:07] what the priorities of the community are. [00:05:10] So there's all the different techniques we use. [00:05:12] Some are qualitative, some are quantitative, some are kind of anecdotal, and we're looking [00:05:17] for that sweet spot in the middle that says, all right, you've asked us to go find out [00:05:21] what the needs and priorities of the residents are, here's what we think the top priorities [00:05:24] are. [00:05:26] And so here's what we found out, so this is kind of the punchline right here, that the [00:05:31] top priority needs appear to be, first of all, let's fix up what we have, and there's [00:05:36] all kinds of different ways. [00:05:38] Let's fix it up in terms of more facilities, making repairs, let's fix it up by additional [00:05:43] amenities, let's fix it up by marketing more and communicating more, but there's a large [00:05:49] focus on taking this good system you have already and making it a great system. [00:05:55] Then in terms of additional things, you can see the laundry list, additional trails, off-leash [00:06:00] dog parks, neighborhood parks, and we talked about that on Saturday a bit, natural areas [00:06:05] and nature parks. [00:06:06] So you've got these two kind of pots, you've got spending the time fixing up what you have [00:06:11] and then potentially some additional items as well. [00:06:13] If I could just ask a question, so this summary of findings includes what we discussed Saturday? [00:06:19] No. [00:06:20] Okay. [00:06:21] We were a little bit out of order on Saturday. [00:06:22] Okay, good. [00:06:23] Saturday was kind of a response to this, but we're backing up a step. [00:06:27] And then the top priority programs you can see on the bottom, so that's the bottom line [00:06:32] of what the need, that's our interpretation of all these different findings from the needs [00:06:36] assessment. [00:06:37] The top priority program is not in any particular order, but adult fitness, once again adult [00:06:41] fitness and wellness programs is top three, correct? [00:06:44] Yeah, those are the top three. [00:06:45] So that would coincide with us putting money into the rec center to have an expansion for [00:06:48] the fitness center, correct? [00:06:49] Yeah. [00:06:50] Yeah. [00:06:51] Just making sure, thank you. [00:06:52] So what I'm going to do is kind of now take you through some of the ah-ha's from the different [00:06:58] techniques, but I'm still going to come back, I'm going to end up back here, but this is [00:07:02] kind of how we got to this, right? [00:07:04] And so it will be important to me that you all, when we're done, kind of nod your heads [00:07:10] and say, yes, we can see how you reached those findings, or no, I'm curious, I see a disconnect [00:07:15] here, you know, that's the key part. [00:07:17] We need to make sure everybody feels comfortable that these are the findings. [00:07:21] This is a chart we create where we take each of the things we hear from the different techniques, [00:07:27] so we take, here's what we heard from this technique, this technique, and we chart them, [00:07:31] and we're looking to see where do we hear the same things over and over. [00:07:35] There's one question mark here. [00:07:38] I didn't put a dot under improving existing parks under the statistically valid survey [00:07:43] because there really wasn't a question that asked that specifically, but if you look at [00:07:47] all the things people say they want from the statistically valid survey, the majority of [00:07:51] them will be met through existing parks. [00:07:55] So I go back and forth, this is kind of a subjective chart, but you probably could put [00:07:59] a dot right there, but these are, you can see how many times we heard many of the same [00:08:04] things over and over, and you can see why we isolated those as the top priority. [00:08:09] And the LOS analysis? [00:08:11] Yes, and that's very, you know, this is a very specific technique, so not everything [00:08:15] applies to that, not everything has a level of service metric, so these are not all apples [00:08:19] to apples, as much as we try, all right? [00:08:23] So I'm going to give you some highlights. [00:08:25] So we did a demographics analysis. [00:08:28] This requires us to read into what are the demographics telling us. [00:08:31] So a couple of ahas from that is that your population is growing and your population [00:08:38] density is growing, so you're becoming a higher density community, which may suggest the need [00:08:44] for more parks, not necessarily right now, but maybe in the future, and also maybe more [00:08:49] parks closer to home. [00:08:50] And we talked about walkability as a theme that you have in the city, so especially as [00:08:54] you get more and more high density, more interest in walking, having things close to home. [00:09:00] You are continuing to be a little bit of an older population, so you've got 65% who are [00:09:04] over the age of 35, your median age is growing a little bit, so you can read into that, and [00:09:10] you can say, well, there is a need for more facilities that meet the needs of adults and [00:09:16] older adults. [00:09:17] Eventually, you could also say there's a need for grandkids and families as well, so you'd [00:09:23] have to decide what that means. [00:09:25] You have a large population that's below the poverty rate, and that's increasing, and you [00:09:32] also have a large population that doesn't have a high school degree, and that starts [00:09:35] to suggest that there's a really important role that Parks and Rec plays in terms of [00:09:40] taking care of family recreation for a lot of folks, and you'll see one of the responses [00:09:44] to the surveys, a lot of folks get their recreation from your park system, but it also starts [00:09:49] to suggest that there are things that you might do within your park system, some of [00:09:53] which you're already doing, that can advance. [00:09:55] Go ahead. [00:09:56] I read this last night, and we discussed this, me and I met in person. [00:10:00] I don't think we should be focusing on the current demographics right now. [00:10:03] As a city, we're trying to improve the demographics of our cities. [00:10:06] We need to plan for the families we're trying to attract to our cities as well, so I just [00:10:10] wanted to bring up that point. [00:10:11] I think it's very, very important. [00:10:13] I was actually just having this conversation with somebody from the church district office, [00:10:22] looking at what the demographics are today versus what they're going to be in a few years. [00:10:26] It's like that old expression when you're going to go kick the ball in soccer, you don't [00:10:31] aim for where the ball is, you aim for where it's going to be. [00:10:34] Right, and just once again, I want to make that point clear that we're not focusing our [00:10:40] entire study and any grant money we apply for on the status quo, per se. [00:10:45] Yeah, so I figure our job is to do our analysis, tell you kind of what our findings are, and [00:10:50] you will have to make decisions about policy and direction and where you want to go. [00:10:55] So that's demographics. [00:10:58] You've got some great information already in your comp plan and in your CRA plan, so [00:11:03] part of our task was to review existing documents and make sure we're not reinventing the wheel. [00:11:09] I just put some of the highlights up there, things that potentially, this is going to [00:11:13] be bad English, things that your parks and recreation system could potentially assist [00:11:19] with. [00:11:20] Right, so there are opportunities to assist with stormwater treatment through your parks. [00:11:25] There's opportunities to improve energy efficiency in native habitat. [00:11:29] There's opportunities to stabilize neighborhoods. [00:11:31] There's different things that we can do through improvements to your park system. [00:11:35] We have park improvements already identified in the capital improvements element. [00:11:38] We've got different funding sources. [00:11:41] You've got some great ideas about partnerships and about your level of service standards [00:11:45] in your comp plan. [00:11:46] So those are just some of the highlights. [00:11:47] So I just want to be mindful as we're moving into the visioning that we want to look for [00:11:52] opportunities to advance some things that you've already said were important to you. [00:11:56] Again, the CRA plan has a lot of great things in it as well. [00:12:00] Similar ideas, these are things that we can help advance in the visioning. [00:12:04] So these aren't necessarily pointing to needs as much as they're confirming some of the [00:12:08] things that we may be hearing through some of the other techniques. [00:12:14] We went and visited all of your parks, and I don't know if you had a chance to look at [00:12:17] that spreadsheet, but we have this system. [00:12:20] We used to try to do A, B, C, D, and people don't like it if you rate their park a D or [00:12:24] an F or whatever. [00:12:25] So we end up with meets expectations, exceeds, or below expectations, and we've been doing [00:12:30] that for several years now. [00:12:31] And it's an interesting tool because we can both see where you may be exceeding or not [00:12:37] meeting expectations about a certain evaluation criteria as well as about a certain individual [00:12:43] park. [00:12:44] So you can't read that chart, but the bottom line, if you look on the right-hand corner, [00:12:48] right side, is that overall you've got a good park system that evaluated pretty well, that [00:12:54] you've got three parks that particularly kind of rose to the top, you've got five parks [00:12:58] that are below expectations, most of those are some of your small, 3DM parks, and then [00:13:03] you have the boat ramp, which is an interesting question as what should it be, so that's highly [00:13:08] subjective in terms of meeting expectations, and then you've got Pine Hill Park. [00:13:13] And then in terms of criteria, the ones that are the bright red there was signage, which [00:13:19] is something you're evaluating, and facility energy efficiency. [00:13:23] Those are the two that are below expectations in terms of the evaluation criteria. [00:13:27] So that's useful to us as well as we go forward in evaluating where we need to make improvements [00:13:32] to your parks. [00:13:33] And that's mapping, it's just interesting to see if there's any districts, in this case [00:13:38] it's interesting to me, I don't know what it means, that the majority of these sites, [00:13:41] the ones that are below expectations are up to the north, but they're also, the small [00:13:46] ones are along the river, a lot of those are your older facilities as well. [00:13:52] Level of service, this one's always a tricky one because it's easy, again, to zero in on [00:13:56] a level of service technique, I'll give you a big caveat right now that I try to repeat [00:14:03] all the time, is there's no decent level of service metric, there's no single metric that [00:14:08] fits any community perfectly, so what we use are multiple techniques. [00:14:12] We look at acres per thousand population, which is the old standby, we look at facilities [00:14:17] per thousand population, which has become a fairly lousy technique, because there's [00:14:21] no great benchmarks for facilities, each community is different. [00:14:25] And then we have access level of service, which I like the best, which is how far do [00:14:28] I have to go to get to a park, so I'm going to take you through the findings. [00:14:32] This one says, based on your own comp plan standard, six acres per thousand population, [00:14:38] you are fine in terms of park acreage 2015-2020, there's nothing red up there, nothing that [00:14:43] shows that you have a deficiency in park acreage, so you say that's a good thing. [00:14:49] If you compare yourself to a national benchmark, and this is based on the National Recreation [00:14:55] Parks Association has a database called Pro Ranges, and their national... [00:15:00] average for communities of a similar density. It's 12.9 acres per thousand, [00:15:05] where yours is six acres per thousand. So if you said let's aspire to be to meet [00:15:10] the national average, then you may say we have a deficiency in acreage, right? So [00:15:15] you can choose over time what's your aspiration. Six acres per thousand is [00:15:20] not bad. Some people would say 12 acres per thousand is much better. So you'd [00:15:24] have to decide where you fit. You can benchmark yourself against other [00:15:27] communities as well. I brought this up when we had the meeting with the board. [00:15:31] Grape Reserve is about 100 acres of that, so it's all in one area. So when we start [00:15:37] talking about neighborhoods, that's not really a neighborhood park. When we start [00:15:41] talking about these statistics, it seems to apply to neighborhood parks, whether [00:15:49] having that volume. The river itself is a park. It's a greenway. It's a quality [00:16:06] of life. It's all of those things. So I don't think you can go to many places in [00:16:12] America. So in essence, if I had to add that to the quality of life, or if I had [00:16:23] to use it as a factor or another element to meet some level of service, I don't [00:16:33] think you're going to find many places in America that have the level of service [00:16:38] of a river, a greenway, an orange lake. So to me, I'm not jumping up to 12 when I [00:16:47] feel as though I've got boat ramp access. I'm providing, the city's providing those [00:16:54] levels of service to meet some acreage. [00:17:03] So what I've become an advocate for is having, and we don't need to go here if [00:17:06] you don't want to, but become an advocate for a separate level of service, separate [00:17:10] from your conservation lands, from your natural resources, that totally focuses on [00:17:14] developable parkland. Because every community we go into has the same conversation. [00:17:19] If I have beaches, people say, well, we should count the beaches. Well, I can't put [00:17:22] a ball field on the beaches. If I have lakes, people say, so if you're ever interested, [00:17:28] we can talk about differential levels of service as well. But this is the state of [00:17:33] the industry in terms of level of service calculations. Some communities do acres as [00:17:38] a percent of land mass. So what percentage of land mass of the community is an open space, [00:17:45] which Councilman Phillips, that would fit your description better. So you can pick your [00:17:50] metric. [00:17:50] When you reference that, when you mention fields, baseball fields, soccer fields, are [00:17:55] you talking about just a field with maybe a goal set up where people come and kick the [00:17:58] ball around? Are you talking about facilities where tournaments are held, where there's [00:18:03] academy soccer programs, little league baseball? Is that what you're referring to? [00:18:07] Are you referring to a large park with a baseball cutout where people can go and play [00:18:10] kickball if they want? [00:18:11] Oh, but to make your life more complex, because of travel ball, that's gotten more [00:18:16] complex. It used to be that you'd say, oh, a field's a field. Now what's happening is [00:18:22] because of travel ball and tournaments, you can have a sports complex, and then you [00:18:27] have to have the discussion, should we count that or not? Because if it's locked up and [00:18:31] only accessible to organized leagues, and there's no longer the place for you to go [00:18:35] kick a ball with your kid or whatever, then should you count that? [00:18:38] Which is normally the case. [00:18:39] Yeah, so that's become a real tough one. [00:18:42] Yeah, it might be a county facility, but it's leased by the league. [00:18:45] Yes, it's gotten really complex. That's why level of service is sort of our best [00:18:50] friend and our worst enemy at the same time. [00:18:51] Yeah, I understand. [00:18:52] It's real tough. [00:18:54] This thing did bring in, which I thought was good, because it's a four-count. [00:18:58] I didn't think about that either. You only have access to it for a year, two years, [00:19:06] three years, whatever. [00:19:07] You can also get into a whole debate about what about if you had private gated communities, [00:19:11] what do we do about private communities? It goes on and on and on. What do you count? [00:19:15] So another technique is to count facilities. Again, this one's got no great technique. [00:19:21] There's different ways. [00:19:23] In your comp plan, you have your own standards, how many facilities per thousand population, [00:19:29] based on previous State Comprehensive Outdoor Recreation Plan standards. [00:19:34] Based on that, you can see in red where you show deficiencies. [00:19:39] You can also compare yourself to the updated State Comprehensive Outdoor Recreation Plan [00:19:47] that benchmarks you against other regions that you're in. [00:19:51] So if you want to benchmark yourself against your region, that point to the right region? [00:19:55] Yes. [00:19:56] Against your region, you can then compare yourselves. [00:19:59] So then this one suggests that you have deficiency in football and soccer fields, [00:20:03] which you'd say, well, that would make sense, because we don't have any. [00:20:07] And picnic areas, which may be a surprise. [00:20:09] So which is something I didn't bring up. [00:20:14] There is accessible to the city, Swetman, and that's where our PAL is in town. [00:20:23] What do you call that? [00:20:24] Is that owned by the school board? [00:20:26] Yeah. [00:20:26] The field there? [00:20:27] Yeah, it's just that they lease it to PAL. [00:20:29] Yeah, so then the question is, did you count that? [00:20:31] What are you calling it? [00:20:32] Swetman. [00:20:33] It's an alternative high school. [00:20:39] High school football field and high school baseball field. [00:20:44] Yes. [00:20:46] So the same question. [00:20:46] Should you count it, not count it? [00:20:48] Do you control it? [00:20:48] And again, but see, I do a kickball tournament once a year, [00:20:52] and I go to the school, and they let me borrow the field. [00:20:54] So I mean, it's accessible as long as you're probably not competing against PAL in the fall. [00:20:59] But it's not available to just people walk on and play. [00:21:03] Yeah, it's a scheduled thing. [00:21:04] It's locked. [00:21:05] Yeah, it's a schedule. [00:21:06] So you'd have to say count it, not count it. [00:21:07] It's a schedule. [00:21:08] Can I ask a quick question? [00:21:09] Yeah. [00:21:10] So what defines picnic area? [00:21:12] I mean, what is, in their definition, what is picnic area? [00:21:15] Do you remember what you counted in your inventory? [00:21:17] Yes, with Carlos. [00:21:19] He worked out a, it's basically a park that there is an area that there's tables. [00:21:28] So it would require tables and chairs. [00:21:29] It's not such a park. [00:21:30] For example, we had live show. [00:21:34] Up by your house. [00:21:35] It's a park to have picnics. [00:21:36] Rob, too, the Jasmine Park, is that one, too? [00:21:38] No, it does not have one. [00:21:40] But it could. [00:21:42] It's got a picnic table. [00:21:43] What it doesn't have, I don't believe, is the grill or the shelter. [00:21:47] Yeah, I mean, we spoke about that park. [00:21:50] I mean, we'll get into the nitty gritty. [00:21:54] But I mean, that's a perfect example of wasted space that we could just do so much more. [00:21:58] You call a neighborhood a park, but it's open to anybody who wants to drive by the Jasmine Park. [00:22:03] It's a beautiful spot on the river with a rundown picnic table. [00:22:07] If I can insert, I mean, gosh, Central Park. [00:22:09] You go to Central Park and there's limited seating or whatever. [00:22:13] But people just picnic everywhere. [00:22:14] You know, blankets on the ground. [00:22:15] Just have to find some grass. [00:22:17] So remember, with each of these techniques. [00:22:19] Sims Park is certainly, to my mind, it's a picnic area. [00:22:22] It's what the technique shows, and then there's your own common sense [00:22:25] and your own observations about the world. [00:22:28] Sims Park with 10, I mean, we could probably easily add another five or six [00:22:34] and they would all get used every weekend. [00:22:37] And that's an obvious opportunity. [00:22:40] But to say that only counts as a single one doesn't make any sense. [00:22:44] So you can, I can look at... [00:22:51] You know, then again, you said Swetman's locked up and it's scheduled. [00:22:56] But so is Pine Hill. [00:22:58] Yep. [00:22:59] Well, that's one of the problems I have with global service analysis these days. [00:23:03] Because what do you do with... [00:23:09] We're not being used either, too. [00:23:12] And, you know, just back on that, I think just on a county-wide basis, [00:23:16] I'm looking at special needs facilities like that, [00:23:19] where West Pasco leases Mitchell Park. [00:23:22] I can't think of really any... [00:23:24] No parks stick out in West Pasco to me that have a baseball dugout [00:23:28] or, you know, a football-type soccer field, [00:23:30] other than gated communities in Trinity. [00:23:32] We just don't see it anywhere in our area. [00:23:34] So one of the discussions in our visioning discussion is, [00:23:40] should you be looking at some kind of partnering with the county? [00:23:44] Is there a need for a sports complex in this area of the county? [00:23:48] How grown? [00:23:50] I would say 100 percent, absolutely. [00:23:51] There's a certain lack of attention on the west side. [00:23:55] On so many aspects. [00:23:57] We've taken our tourist tax dollars and they've been here five-plus years. [00:24:05] Now they're building it in the middle. [00:24:09] When Pine Hill's returned to us, there's a level of concern. [00:24:17] There's a level of service issues across the board, [00:24:21] as well as some of the other findings. [00:24:23] But at the end of the day, [00:24:26] I'm disappointed that the county hasn't championed themselves to find a location [00:24:37] on the PAL that would take on the travel mall, [00:24:40] that would take on West Pasco and Hudson. [00:24:46] I'm disappointed in our ability to provide that level of service. [00:24:57] Because of the act that we talked about on Saturday, [00:25:00] about the travel mall and the ultimate impact that's had. [00:25:14] That's a football that's going to be off the court. [00:25:18] It's a great opportunity for discussion. [00:25:21] When Councilman DeBello-Thomas asked Ms. Manns to basically set up a meeting [00:25:26] between ourselves, county commissioners, and New Port Richey Council if they want to join. [00:25:30] I think it's something, I know it's kind of off track of what we're working on today, [00:25:33] but if we can get something like that going, [00:25:35] I know Pinellas commissioners deal with a lot of their municipalities. [00:25:38] I think it's something we should try to do on a quarterly basis. [00:25:42] Have meetings with our county commissioners so we're all on the same page [00:25:45] to talk about all these different challenges that we have here in West Pasco. [00:25:48] So if you could just relay that to Ms. Baker and discuss PARFs, [00:25:52] discuss US 19, there's so many things we need to discuss [00:25:55] rather than just have us come up here and complain at our meetings and never get heard. [00:25:59] I just think it would be very, very beneficial if we could all sit down together and [00:26:03] brainstorm and come up with action plans to address these concerns that we have. [00:26:08] What actually happened, in my opinion, we had a four-year penny tax [00:26:15] that went for libraries and parks in the county. [00:26:18] And we built parks, but they didn't have, the county didn't have personnel to run them. [00:26:33] So they pretty much kind of took care of the property, [00:26:36] but then they leased out all the parks to different football clubs. [00:26:41] You see the first hand. [00:26:42] Yeah, the clubs, right. [00:26:44] And then now all those entities became territorial. [00:26:48] And now we're trying to get them back a little bit, [00:26:52] or at least being able to bring the travel ball into the county [00:26:56] without offending these territorial situations. [00:27:01] I know that the county completed a parks master plan the last year or two. [00:27:06] And that might be something that you were part of that, [00:27:12] especially when we get a copy of that. [00:27:13] I know that they are right now looking for a new position to fill that's, [00:27:20] the main function will be to implement that master plan. [00:27:23] And it's somewhere, dollar figure, estimated around 300 million. [00:27:27] A lot of money. [00:27:28] They are really struggling with, we went and looked at MSTUs, we looked at [00:27:34] most of theirs was to bring their current facilities up to standards, though. [00:27:37] But still, the idea was additional facilities around the county. [00:27:40] The ideal property that's always been out there, [00:28:05] Harvey family, that's had it from there back to Oak Street. [00:28:11] Out to Platt. [00:28:13] And ideally, if you were going to put a collective unit of facilities all in one, [00:28:20] that would be the center point with roadways and access, [00:28:25] those five or six functions all in one location. [00:28:34] I'm really surprised that Trinity doesn't have their own pulley. [00:28:40] They all come to West Pasco or they go to Hollywood. [00:28:43] And I can tell you, and Kelton Davis can as well, he's been out there. [00:28:46] I'm just out there on a regular basis, [00:28:47] telling my kids we're playing academy soccer. [00:28:51] The reputation we have, especially not just in West Pasco, [00:28:54] but we travel these facilities to play academy soccer. [00:28:58] And what's the one off Mobley? [00:29:01] Oh, Ed Radice. [00:29:02] Ed Radice Field. [00:29:03] You compare that to Mitchell Fields, I mean, it's just, [00:29:06] it's unbelievable the difference. [00:29:09] It's like these clubs, whether it's soccer or little league baseball, [00:29:13] they dread coming here. [00:29:14] We don't even have parking at our Mitchell Park to host, [00:29:19] just not even a tournament, just a club day. [00:29:23] The clubs travel together. [00:29:24] All the different age groups travel. [00:29:26] So they'll go to the CDL league. [00:29:27] They'll go to the same, from under six, under eight girls, [00:29:30] all the way up to the high school. [00:29:31] They all go to the same facilities and play [00:29:35] when they're scheduled for that weekend. [00:29:36] They come to Mitchell and, you know, Mr. Davis will tell you [00:29:42] there's not room to park. [00:29:43] And then what happens? [00:29:44] People complain. [00:29:45] They call the police department. [00:29:46] They get tickets for parking on the curbs. [00:29:47] I mean, it's just absurd. [00:29:48] What are there, maybe 50 parking places? [00:29:50] No, no, no, there's more. [00:29:51] Yeah, there's more than that. [00:29:52] There's probably a hundred. [00:29:53] There's not many. [00:29:54] We'll see there's ones by the soccer field, [00:29:56] ones by the baseball field, and then there's one. [00:30:00] It's just disappointing, though, that we [00:30:01] have this reputation in West Pasco for youth sports, [00:30:05] for any kind of travel sport, especially, I'll say it, [00:30:10] literally baseball and Academy travel ball soccer, [00:30:14] where they dread coming here. [00:30:16] They do. [00:30:17] And it's so disappointing to hear that [00:30:20] and to be a part of it, it really is. [00:30:22] Your Pine Hill was never designed to be, [00:30:25] I mean, it was designed to serve your local kids' needs. [00:30:28] And so you. [00:30:29] And when they decided to make it a football. [00:30:48] Overall, it's just the, I think, part of the thing [00:30:51] is I butchered Mr. Barr's name. [00:30:58] He came on Saturday, so bad, because I [00:31:00] have an alumni director for my university. [00:31:03] And for half the meeting, I'm calling him Doug. [00:31:06] I only heard it once. [00:31:07] And Mr. Vance came over and said, Bill, [00:31:09] I think you need to know it's Dave. [00:31:11] And I'm like, oh my god, I just butchered this guy [00:31:14] for an hour and a half. [00:31:15] Again, I apologize. [00:31:17] But it's one of those things. [00:31:18] I had my senior moment that day. [00:31:20] But about, as you identified in some of your report, [00:31:25] I'm not sure how you would touch on it, Bill. [00:31:33] I'm investing in class. [00:31:34] Highest and best in class. [00:31:37] Because then you separate yourselves [00:31:39] from the mediocrity of, and you can separate yourself [00:31:43] from the players. [00:31:50] So you all have to, I mean, one of the questions [00:31:53] that we won't answer tonight is, what's the future? [00:31:56] Yeah, well, we had a rotary come in and donate two days a day. [00:32:05] And then the county didn't finish the job. [00:32:10] You going? [00:32:11] I think that, as we mentioned, that's a much larger area. [00:32:13] Debbie wants me, I got to get you out for dinner. [00:32:17] All right, so that was facility. [00:32:18] You can see why. [00:32:19] You're a snickers. [00:32:20] Oh, I didn't talk about this. [00:32:21] So look at this chart. [00:32:23] This chart almost shows you have no deficiencies [00:32:26] if you compare it to national standards, [00:32:27] except for rectangular fields and a golf course. [00:32:30] So again, you've got to pick and choose what [00:32:33] you want to be compared to. [00:32:35] We had a golf course. [00:32:37] We used to be around Orange Lake. [00:32:39] So the prorigious standards are based [00:32:42] on data from parks departments all over the country. [00:32:45] Well, most of those are not Florida. [00:32:49] They're not based on where people [00:32:50] are outdoors 12 months a year. [00:32:52] And so you've got to pick and choose your benchmarks. [00:32:54] That's the danger of this. [00:32:56] Bottom line is it just shows some deficiencies [00:32:59] in some types of facilities. [00:33:01] The access level service is the one I like the most, [00:33:04] because it starts to confirm what you [00:33:07] may see from other techniques. [00:33:08] So let's say, for example, that you all [00:33:11] have a goal of everybody having access [00:33:12] to a park within a quarter of a mile of every resident. [00:33:16] Then you see all the white space where people [00:33:18] don't have access. [00:33:19] If you say, here's a half mile, you can see most everybody. [00:33:23] If you want to talk about walkable, [00:33:25] most everybody can walk to some kind of green space. [00:33:27] And then if you go to a mile, you've got full coverage. [00:33:30] And Councilman Phillips, that's what we were talking about [00:33:32] on Saturday, that you've already got these, [00:33:34] and you have to talk about what walkability is. [00:33:37] But if I go back one, well, I'll go back. [00:33:38] I'll go forward. [00:33:39] So when you talk about neighborhood parks [00:33:41] and playground analysis, so for example, St. Pete says, [00:33:45] we'd like every kid to be able to get to a playground [00:33:47] half a mile, right? [00:33:49] Well, that map does start to suggest [00:33:51] there are some voids in small neighborhood parks. [00:33:55] So it does start to suggest, if you [00:33:57] want to focus on walkability, that maybe your acreage does [00:34:01] need to be increased. [00:34:02] Not necessarily because of gross acreage, but to your point, [00:34:06] in terms of, I'm sorry, Councilman Davis, [00:34:09] in terms of parks that are not in natural areas or, say, [00:34:12] the river, but are developable park land. [00:34:15] So not everybody in Newport Ridge [00:34:17] can walk to a park within, say, a half mile of their home. [00:34:20] It may suggest a need for more park land [00:34:22] for neighborhood or small community parks. [00:34:24] So that, to me, is where I see, ah, there's [00:34:26] some similarity between what I find out from this technique [00:34:30] and what I found out from the local service acreage [00:34:32] technique. [00:34:35] The survey, the statistically valid survey, [00:34:39] for obvious reasons, is the technique [00:34:41] that we rely on the most. [00:34:42] It reaches the broadest number of people. [00:34:44] So in this case, you have 500 plus households [00:34:47] who participated. [00:34:49] Statisticians tell us you can have a 95% level of confidence [00:34:53] in this, that if you did this same survey 95 out of 100 [00:34:56] times, you'd get the same results, [00:34:58] within plus or minus 4.4%. [00:35:02] When we presented to the steering committee, [00:35:05] Councilman Davis asked, how does this line up [00:35:08] with demographics? [00:35:11] And so when we checked back with the survey company, [00:35:13] the demographics lined up pretty well. [00:35:15] But the median age of respondents [00:35:18] was pretty close to the median age in the city, [00:35:20] and a pretty good distribution across age groups. [00:35:24] I don't know if it's of interest to you, [00:35:25] out of the 502 surveys that people responded to, [00:35:30] 400 plus or minus responded by mail, [00:35:34] and the other 100 responded online. [00:35:37] So you had a pretty good, 94 responded by mail, [00:35:40] 494 responded online, 408 responded by mail. [00:35:46] So yeah. [00:35:49] So there's no reason not to believe [00:35:51] this is a pretty credible survey. [00:35:53] So what this survey company does is they ask questions two ways. [00:35:56] They'll say, do you have a need for blank, [00:35:59] and then they'll ask you what percentage of your needs [00:36:01] being met. [00:36:01] And what they're looking for is, this is important to me, [00:36:04] I have a need for it, and that need's not being met. [00:36:07] And so the things that are important to people [00:36:09] and are not being met rise up to the top [00:36:11] with their algorithms, and that's [00:36:13] where they get their high priority, medium priority, [00:36:15] and lower priority. [00:36:16] So you can see up here, walking trails, paved bike trails, [00:36:20] natural areas, nature parks, off-leash dog parks, [00:36:22] and small neighborhood parks. [00:36:23] Those are the top priorities. [00:36:26] So when I show you the other techniques [00:36:28] in a couple minutes, you'll keep seeing [00:36:30] that those ideas are repeated in our public workshops, [00:36:33] in summer interviews with you all, in the online survey. [00:36:37] You'll see some consistency between the techniques, [00:36:39] which is what we look for. [00:36:46] That's the reason when you did your coverage area, [00:36:50] if you're promoting the access points, [00:36:56] that's to provide outreach limits. [00:37:02] It doesn't have to be a mile. [00:37:03] It could be 3 quarters of a mile. [00:37:06] But with it, it defines you as walk, walk, walk, or walk. [00:37:21] If there's designated elements, you automatically [00:37:27] shrink down, in my mind. [00:37:29] You don't have to meet those criteria. [00:37:31] Except for capacity. [00:37:33] So just to be clear, I can improve level of service [00:37:36] by improving access. [00:37:38] But if there's too many people at that place, [00:37:41] then I still have a capacity issue. [00:37:42] But I agree with you. [00:37:43] So there's two different ways to look [00:37:45] at expanding level of service. [00:37:47] We're doing work for Cape Carl, which [00:37:49] is total dead ends everywhere. [00:37:50] Cape Carl is all cul-de-sacs and canals. [00:37:53] So a simple bridge across the canal [00:37:56] immediately expanded access level of service. [00:37:59] So those are top priorities for facilities and amenities. [00:38:02] Here's top priorities for programs. [00:38:05] So this is where you can see that we [00:38:07] were interested in adult fitness and wellness. [00:38:09] And that was part of the conversation with the FEDOs. [00:38:14] If you made it accessible, you would enhance that in the city. [00:38:22] Accessibility. [00:38:24] Even if you don't like the way it's laid out, [00:38:26] it's still good for you. [00:38:28] May I ask a question? [00:38:29] Could you go back one slide? [00:38:31] So I see here, where was it? [00:38:36] Oh, that was rental facility. [00:38:37] I'm sorry. [00:38:38] I'm reading it wrong. [00:38:43] No, there was indoor gymnasiums, space, game courts. [00:38:46] That's low on the priority list. [00:38:48] But yet, on the next slide, the need [00:38:51] for adult fitness and wellness programs, when I look at that, [00:38:56] that's rec center programs. [00:38:58] Well, they could be outside. [00:38:59] They could be in any one of the parks. [00:39:02] I mean, there's no definition of each [00:39:05] of these terms on the survey. [00:39:07] So you are subject to how people interpret this. [00:39:12] Answered your question, right? [00:39:13] It just seems a little contradictory to me. [00:39:15] I mean, when I think of adult wellness programs, fitness. [00:39:17] The fact that people are looking for programs is high, [00:39:18] but they rank the rec centers. [00:39:20] Right, exactly. [00:39:20] Yeah, I think he's talking about partnerships [00:39:22] with the department. [00:39:29] Sorry to interrupt. [00:39:30] Go ahead. [00:39:31] No, that's all right. [00:39:32] It's a good point. [00:39:33] Keep going? [00:39:34] OK. [00:39:35] I just pulled some of the questions. [00:39:36] You know, you can read the whole survey report, if you wish. [00:39:38] But some of the ones that I thought [00:39:40] that were interesting to me, that's [00:39:44] a fairly large percentage of folks [00:39:46] who have participated in your parks. [00:39:48] I assume Sims has a lot to do with that, [00:39:50] and James E. Gray Preserve has a lot to do with that. [00:39:52] Yeah. [00:39:53] Yeah. [00:39:54] Yeah. [00:39:55] Yeah. [00:39:56] Yeah. [00:39:57] And James E. Gray Preserve has a lot to do with that. [00:39:59] That's really cool. [00:40:01] This is a great number. [00:40:02] 96% say good or excellent. [00:40:05] Right? [00:40:06] Great number. [00:40:12] That would have been interesting. [00:40:14] If they're 12 and 13, their comments would have been, [00:40:17] they've been talking about it for a long time. [00:40:20] It would have been. [00:40:21] I mean, obviously, we're not paper due studies so close [00:40:23] together, but I would just love to see [00:40:25] the answer to that question two years ago compared to this. [00:40:28] Some communities will do nothing. [00:40:30] They won't update their entire needs assessment, [00:40:32] but on an annual, biannual basis, [00:40:34] they'll do a satisfaction survey. [00:40:35] Do you all do that? [00:40:36] Do you do some type of satisfaction survey? [00:40:38] We have it sometimes. [00:40:39] So it's not incredibly expensive to do. [00:40:42] The basic cost for this survey is around $15,000. [00:40:47] I mean, you'd have to decide how often you want to spend it. [00:40:52] Anyway, you start developing a trend line. [00:40:55] Yeah. [00:41:01] Correct. [00:41:02] If you're going to spend $15,000, [00:41:03] you're going to want answers to multiple questions. [00:41:05] Yes. [00:41:06] So yeah, you may have three for recreation. [00:41:08] It's almost like a voting survey, to be honest with you. [00:41:10] In some ways, you just don't want to get [00:41:12] into how you tailor the questions. [00:41:14] Right. [00:41:15] Town of Jupiter does that. [00:41:16] They'll do a general customer satisfaction survey every year, [00:41:19] maybe three questions for parks, a couple for public works. [00:41:23] This one's interesting. [00:41:24] Town of Jupiter's got a little more money. [00:41:26] Yeah. [00:41:29] I'm sorry. [00:41:30] You were going to explain this? [00:41:31] No, go ahead. [00:41:32] So I'm trying to discern how the question was asked. [00:41:37] Does that imply, then, that private youth sports leagues, [00:41:43] I think is what it says. [00:41:45] You're right. [00:41:46] It's private. [00:41:47] It says private. [00:41:48] OK, so organizations that households use the most [00:41:51] for the Rec and Park Program. [00:41:52] So it would imply that private youth sports leagues only use them [00:41:57] of households that have private youth sports leagues? [00:42:02] No, you would read it as that 2% of the households in the city [00:42:06] selected private youth sports leagues as two of their top choices [00:42:10] in what they use the most. [00:42:12] Oh, OK. [00:42:13] In city parks. [00:42:15] Thank you. [00:42:16] In essence, you would say that residents say they use [00:42:19] first choice and second choice combined, [00:42:21] 45% of the respondents say they use [00:42:23] City of New Port Richey facilities the most. [00:42:26] Does that make sense? [00:42:29] It gives you a sense of what people are using. [00:42:31] Again, it goes back to you have a lot of residents [00:42:33] who rely on what you do. [00:42:35] You would expect the people that answered our survey [00:42:37] to say they use our program. [00:42:39] Yeah, I guess. [00:42:40] I don't know. [00:42:41] You can get into who answers and who doesn't answer. [00:42:43] But everybody in the city got that. [00:42:45] No, a random sample got that. [00:42:47] A random sample, OK. [00:42:48] I think that ties in with demographics as well, though. [00:42:50] I think so. [00:42:51] I mean, 100%. [00:42:52] I mean, we just went to a tournament at Disney World, [00:42:55] and it's expensive to just go to a tournament there. [00:42:58] And these travel programs for sports, [00:43:00] I mean, a lot of families within our city limits can't afford it. [00:43:04] Exactly. [00:43:05] No, I think that does. [00:43:06] They simply can't. [00:43:07] So they have no choice but to use the parks. [00:43:08] You are the recreation provider of choice for a lot of your residents. [00:43:11] So, yes. [00:43:14] This just talks about the kinds of parks that people use the most, [00:43:17] probably no surprise there. [00:43:19] I mean, if you take the top four or five, [00:43:21] it describes your entire system. [00:43:23] So it's trails, it's community parks and neighborhood parks. [00:43:26] I'm just going to make this point before I forget. [00:43:28] I love the idea of small community neighborhood parks. [00:43:31] I really do. [00:43:32] I think there's a need for it. [00:43:33] I think it would help to find different neighborhoods [00:43:35] rather than just having to drive to Sims Park to go to a big park. [00:43:39] I mean, just the Jasmine Park is a great example. [00:43:41] If we had a little more pocket parks like that within neighborhoods, [00:43:46] where you can just go out and. [00:43:48] Absolutely. [00:43:50] Identifying some of the neighborhoods, [00:43:57] it would be a crucial element to raise its profile, [00:44:04] as well as the economic standards and just the overall. [00:44:09] There was more than a little bit of discussion about a park [00:44:12] right down the street from you. [00:44:15] A what? [00:44:16] A park right down the street from your house. [00:44:19] Yeah. [00:44:20] Not because it's your neighborhood, Jeff. [00:44:22] No, it's just a dumping ground right now for landscape companies, [00:44:25] is what it is. [00:44:28] I read the little insert about prostitutes, too. [00:44:31] That was quite amusing. [00:44:33] Look at the top two there, summer concert and special events. [00:44:36] I mean, again, because of the stuff you're doing. [00:44:43] People are already using adult fitness and wellness. [00:44:47] Look at the pet exercise. [00:44:50] That's no surprise to me as you keep urbanizing. [00:44:52] Those are the kinds of things that you're. [00:44:54] People love coming in suburban Florida. [00:44:57] People love the places where they can come together. [00:45:00] there for these kinds of social activities. [00:45:03] Well, parks have always outlawed dogs. [00:45:11] Yes, yeah. [00:45:14] Our one and only dog park is in very poor condition, correct? [00:45:17] Yeah, we talked about that. [00:45:17] Sorry I wasn't here Saturday, I was out of town. [00:45:20] Very well done. [00:45:23] Very interested. [00:45:23] Your consultant hammered it. [00:45:24] This is interesting, why do you use a private business facility instead of the cities? [00:45:33] And there's the two big ones, don't know what's being offered and the fees are too high. [00:45:38] And the online survey, the fees came up as well. [00:45:40] So you have that affordability issue and I may not know what's going on. [00:45:44] And interestingly enough, they probably are related because if they don't know what's being offered, [00:45:49] they probably just automatically figure it's too expensive without realizing that it's not. [00:45:54] So you're dealing with perception. [00:45:57] This is interesting that you have an older community, [00:46:00] your people buy their news from newspaper articles still. [00:46:06] Social media is the fifth one down, which is interesting. [00:46:09] I'd love to see where that was five years ago, three years ago and then five years ago. [00:46:24] So with the social media being number five, [00:46:28] would you blame us as a city for that? [00:46:30] Or I mean I heard you talk about the age of the residents, [00:46:33] but everyone's got an email account. [00:46:34] Is it something we can do better as a city or? [00:46:36] I blame Elaine. [00:46:38] No, that's not what I'm implying at all by any means. [00:46:42] I think that it's the age. [00:46:45] It is the age. [00:46:46] I mean, I look at, you know, I'm Divot A, [00:46:51] for I still get most of my news from the newspaper. [00:46:54] In the steering committee, we have three youth board members, [00:46:59] so teenagers, and David asked one of them the question, [00:47:02] do you ever read a newspaper? [00:47:04] No, never. [00:47:05] He said unless he's in it. [00:47:06] But I mean, never. [00:47:09] So that's, I think that's an age. [00:47:11] I think to your point, you're doing a great job [00:47:15] of using social media, and I would think every year. [00:47:19] It's going to gradually grow up. [00:47:23] Elaine did posters out, you know, [00:47:24] we did QR codes on signs at the parks for the online survey. [00:47:29] So you're using all kinds of technology right now, which is cool. [00:47:34] I think the interesting thing for me on that is that, you know, [00:47:37] number two, which is just 1% different from the article, [00:47:40] is from friends and neighborhoods. [00:47:42] So it's, so our best advertisers are the folks [00:47:46] that are using the facilities. [00:47:49] So those are just different, interesting things. [00:47:52] I thought this was, you know, 91% say it's important [00:47:56] to have high quality. [00:47:58] And we started off by talking about you have a system [00:48:01] that's beloved, and people really appreciate what you're doing. [00:48:04] Here's the online survey, I just think is interesting. [00:48:08] Whereas the mail survey is a random statistically valid survey. [00:48:14] We don't have any control over who goes online. [00:48:17] There's no randomness about this at all. [00:48:19] And yet, the findings are very, very similar. [00:48:22] And to me, that's really, I'm always hoping for that, [00:48:26] because it starts to show some consistency. [00:48:29] So I simply put anything that more than 50% of the respondents said. [00:48:34] If it's less than 50%, to me, that's not a priority. [00:48:37] But look at the similarities in terms of facility needs [00:48:42] with what you saw on the mail survey. [00:48:48] And look at below, there's the fees are too high again. [00:49:04] Interesting, great. [00:49:09] One shot wonder type of thing, that we create our own worst dynamic. [00:49:35] I also realize it's only 19% of the respondents, so. [00:49:38] The survey, the mail survey went out the 1st of November. [00:49:48] So that could be part of it too, that's the way our fees used to be. [00:49:54] Well, the other thing is, we've paid a degree of oversight and [00:50:05] discretion, almost four times, since I've been back on council since 2012. [00:50:14] I mean, if we can't, because we can't even explain ourselves where our fees are, [00:50:19] because we don't, you know, where they are, so keep moving them. [00:50:23] You don't get any real consistency in how you grade your fees out. [00:50:28] Genuinely. [00:50:29] Yeah. [00:50:30] Public workshop. [00:50:32] Again, consistency, you see trails and dogs rise right up to the top. [00:50:36] Now again, this is one of the least statistically valid techniques we have. [00:50:41] We don't have any control over who shows up. [00:50:44] But it's interesting. [00:50:46] And then other improvements to existing parks, so. [00:50:51] And we had a park improvements exercise for those of you who didn't get a chance [00:50:55] to come to the public workshop. [00:50:56] All your parks on the, you know them on the walls? [00:51:00] Tables, yeah. [00:51:02] And people could take post-it notes and say what improvements. [00:51:05] So we have a whole list in that document that you receive of the [00:51:08] different improvements of people. [00:51:09] And that's very helpful to us. [00:51:11] We talked about that on Saturday. [00:51:14] So here's the interviews with you all. [00:51:17] And again, you're looking at improvements to existing parks. [00:51:24] And that we're seeing consistency in the different techniques. [00:51:29] Back to where we began. [00:51:32] So the way that I do this is literally I sit at the computer. [00:51:36] I go through the findings from each technique. [00:51:38] I put a dot under that technique. [00:51:41] If I think that bubbled up as a priority. [00:51:43] Sometimes I combine things that I'm seeing a trend. [00:51:46] Like this idea of fixing up what you have. [00:51:49] There's many dimensions of that. [00:51:52] And then I'm looking for, you know, where we think the top priorities are. [00:51:56] And again, although we don't use any numeric system to weight the mail survey. [00:52:02] Intellectually, I'm looking for where do things line up with that, right? [00:52:06] And if you've got 500 residents participating in that technique, but [00:52:11] only 20 or 30 in this technique, I'm intellectually kind of weighing things [00:52:16] against how they compare to the list. [00:52:22] And there's the top priority. [00:52:29] So the question to you all is, are our findings credible? [00:52:33] You know, do you find yourselves taking exception to anything? [00:52:37] Are you nodding your head? [00:52:38] Does it make sense? [00:52:41] Pass the string, please. [00:52:46] Not an exact science. [00:52:57] In my opinion, on the committee, and I gave my. [00:53:07] Let me hear it. [00:53:08] No, no. [00:53:08] The current part. [00:53:10] In the plan. [00:53:11] In the plan, oh, OK. [00:53:40] I get bracketed. [00:53:46] How do you see other communities develop their action plans or let's [00:53:52] call them baby steps? [00:53:54] Because obviously, once you get past a certain element, it's all about money [00:53:59] and people. [00:54:01] It's more money and more people. [00:54:03] And that's what usually is the downside. [00:54:08] Then everybody wants to dissect what their return on investment is. [00:54:13] And you hear that over and over. [00:54:16] But every once in a while, I just like to go out of the community [00:54:19] and be thanked because, one, we finished something [00:54:22] we talked about for a long time. [00:54:24] It was well received. [00:54:26] And I can't put a dollar value on it, because all I know [00:54:31] is I was there last night to take a phone call at Sims Park at 6 o'clock. [00:54:38] On a Monday night. [00:54:40] And there must have been, I'm not talking about the playground. [00:54:43] I'm talking about throughout the rest of the park. [00:54:45] There must have been 60, 75 people. [00:54:49] All age groups, one-off playing football in front of the amphitheater. [00:54:54] I mean, just little things like that. [00:55:01] What you could do for the lowest dollar. [00:55:05] Yeah, so we always talk about low-hanging fruit. [00:55:07] And so that, to me, is the first line. [00:55:09] What could you do tomorrow? [00:55:11] And that's what we'll talk about with staff. [00:55:13] I mean, our first step is to say, here's our big idea of vision. [00:55:15] But then you've got to break the vision down, [00:55:17] because it's got to match your fiscal reality. [00:55:19] And you've got to say, what are things you could do right now [00:55:22] that are very low cost and help build more support? [00:55:26] And then what are medium priority? [00:55:28] And so part of our job is to break it down into those bite-sized pieces. [00:55:33] For the benefit of the two council members who weren't there Saturday, [00:55:35] one of the discussions with the triangular property up north of your place [00:55:40] was potentially getting the people in the neighborhood together [00:55:46] to discuss what exactly would you like to have inside that park. [00:55:51] I think that's a great idea. [00:55:53] And if you could help me out as far as we're talking about cost. [00:55:57] Especially since I've been on council and I've traveled to different areas, [00:56:02] different cool cities like Boca Grande, Gasparilla Island, Cedar Key. [00:56:05] You know, Boca Grande, you walk through their downtown area [00:56:08] and it's got cool shops. [00:56:10] And you just go through this little cutout between two retail shops [00:56:15] and it's a little paved walkway that opens up to a fountain. [00:56:18] It's maybe a quarter acre. [00:56:20] I mean, it's tiny. [00:56:21] And it's a gorgeous little... [00:56:23] And you see people sitting there on benches reading books. [00:56:25] And it's just a really tranquil, cool, shaded, picturesque landscaped area. [00:56:32] To me, I mean, to build little spots like that throughout our city, [00:56:36] I just couldn't imagine it would cost too much money. [00:56:38] But having a place just to go and chill out [00:56:41] rather than having to drive or ride your bike a mile to the Sims Park [00:56:44] in your own neighborhood would just go such a long way [00:56:47] and it would help attract families that take pride in their community [00:56:51] and their homes to our city limits. [00:56:54] I think that's my... [00:56:56] I discussed this with you when we met individually. [00:56:59] I think my main goal is... [00:57:01] I'm not trying to kick anyone out of our city. [00:57:03] And I keep saying it over and over up here. [00:57:05] I just feel like we need to have higher standards. [00:57:09] And I want people living here that are going to take pride in their community, [00:57:13] take pride in the home that they own or that they rent, [00:57:16] not going to be involved in criminal activity. [00:57:19] What do we need to do in our neighborhoods and small parks [00:57:22] and small pockets to help to build places [00:57:26] that will attract someone that sees a 1920-frame home [00:57:28] that they could buy for a great price and put 50 grand in [00:57:31] and have a gorgeous little home with a front porch [00:57:33] and a walkable space like that? [00:57:35] There's different needs in different neighborhoods. [00:57:37] Yes, of course. [00:57:39] And our neighborhoods are so different. [00:57:41] If you're talking about a downtown area [00:57:43] where people want to stop for 10 minutes [00:57:45] and they may like to sit on a bench and read or be by a fountain, [00:57:49] but they won't stay all day there. [00:57:52] Where you have a neighborhood with a lot of small kids, [00:57:56] all they need is some open green space [00:57:58] where they can throw a ball and play catch. [00:58:01] Which may be more difficult to find [00:58:04] in that particular area where the children are. [00:58:07] I'm thinking of the Tanglewood... [00:58:10] Edison to the left there. [00:58:13] What is that? [00:58:15] There's a lot of concentrated houses. [00:58:18] We always get... [00:58:21] There's so many small things. [00:58:23] You have great ideas. [00:58:26] The thought of having just a couple Adirondack chairs [00:58:29] cut out on some crushed limestone [00:58:31] overlooking the river, [00:58:33] whether you've got to chain them down or whatever [00:58:35] so someone doesn't steal them. [00:58:37] Compared to what's there, [00:58:39] wouldn't it cost a lot to do a couple things like that? [00:58:41] If you're out for a walk with your dog [00:58:43] and you want to chill out by the river [00:58:45] rather than sitting on a dirty old picnic table, [00:58:47] what a change. [00:58:49] How much would that cost? [00:58:51] Not a lot. [00:58:53] Put a swing set there. [00:58:56] You're the expert, [00:58:58] but it doesn't seem like small things like that [00:59:00] would cost a huge amount of money [00:59:02] and that's a start [00:59:04] rather than just buying acres and acres and acres of land [00:59:06] and building baseball fields. [00:59:08] I'm sorry I wasn't here Saturday, [00:59:10] so the things I'm saying may have already been discussed. [00:59:12] One of the things that percolated up [00:59:14] on the Saturday meeting [00:59:16] was the discussion about river access [00:59:18] and somebody had suggested [00:59:20] put public docks [00:59:22] at the street ends [00:59:25] and in talking with Bob Smallwood last night, [00:59:27] he and his wife didn't realize [00:59:29] that the public right-of-way [00:59:31] for most of the streets [00:59:33] in Newport Ridge [00:59:35] actually extend all the way down to the water. [00:59:37] And that's the case [00:59:39] even on Palmetto Road [00:59:41] which now is somebody's front yard, [00:59:43] but there's a flat part in the road [00:59:45] in the front yard [00:59:47] that is actually where the sidewalk is covered. [00:59:49] And if we took places [00:59:51] like Orange Grove [00:59:54] as an initial spot [00:59:56] and put a public dock there [00:59:58] and then we take that [01:00:00] as its right foot [01:00:02] across the road [01:00:04] and there's a public dock [01:00:06] on that land [01:00:08] and the public dock [01:00:10] will come down [01:00:12] and the lake [01:00:14] as the, [01:00:16] the original [01:00:18] the Santa Rosa [01:00:20] we're gonna build [01:00:00] started looking at, Indiana's a bad example, [01:00:04] but the next street north of that, where that comes in, [01:00:07] you could conceivably open up the river enormously, [01:00:12] just with a handful of docks. [01:00:20] Yeah, and so there's a lot of... [01:00:22] They just fence it off when it gets close to the water. [01:00:25] You wouldn't even know the rivers there [01:00:26] on the opposite side of the field. [01:00:27] No. [01:00:29] You could have a walkway there, [01:00:31] like a pier-type walkway where kids could fish [01:00:33] or just walk. [01:00:35] And then my next question would be, [01:00:37] top priorities include nature programs. [01:00:39] Do we currently have... [01:00:40] Are we engaging anyone at the school board? [01:00:42] Like, we have the Energy Marine Center, [01:00:44] which is phenomenal. [01:00:45] I mean, we are, as a county, blessed to have that. [01:00:47] That's one of my favorite parts about West Pasco County. [01:00:50] But are there any programs where schools [01:00:52] come to the Great Preserve [01:00:53] and do any kind of nature programs there? [01:00:55] We do have some. [01:00:56] It's limited right now. [01:00:57] This coming Saturday, we have a high school coming out, [01:00:59] and they like to do cleanup projects. [01:01:02] So they're doing a... [01:01:03] Helping us with our exotics and evasives, [01:01:05] so they're gonna do an air potato pickup. [01:01:08] Jason Jones is on the steering committee, [01:01:10] the principal of Gulf Middle. [01:01:12] And he's very interested, [01:01:14] and it's learned through this process. [01:01:17] He's very interested in having that [01:01:19] as part of his school curriculum. [01:01:20] We could walk across the street and do it, yeah. [01:01:22] Especially, he didn't know about the 14 acres [01:01:25] that's been acquired now, right at the end of Congress, [01:01:27] for the Great Preserve. [01:01:29] So he's very excited about that, [01:01:30] because he can literally walk his students, [01:01:32] once that develops, to the Great Preserve [01:01:34] and partner with us and do nature programming. [01:01:37] Plus, he also indicated that he had... [01:01:41] After school's program, he wasn't aware. [01:01:45] Walked down to Francis Avenue with their teachers. [01:01:51] It was a nice first bridge, especially with him being on... [01:01:54] You know who I see at Jasmine Park a lot? [01:01:56] There's a guy, I don't know him. [01:01:58] It's Coyote After School Adventures. [01:02:00] And he's in charge of about 10 kids. [01:02:02] He's got a big cargo van, [01:02:03] and he takes them to different areas of West Pasco. [01:02:06] Jasmine Park's one of his top destinations, [01:02:08] and lets the kids fish. [01:02:09] And it's basically an after school program, [01:02:11] where he's watching them, [01:02:12] but he's engaging them in the environment. [01:02:14] It's called Coyote Outdoor Adventures. [01:02:16] And I see it on the van there, in our neighborhood. [01:02:18] And they're there probably once or twice a week, [01:02:20] during the school year. [01:02:21] And then I've seen them out at Mitchell Park, as well. [01:02:23] And I just thought, you know, it's a private entity, [01:02:25] but what a cool idea. [01:02:26] Jasmine Park is one of the places [01:02:28] we were talking about Saturday, [01:02:29] that would cost next to nothing, [01:02:31] to add a kayak launch module to the existing dock. [01:02:37] I mean, a lot of this stuff is dirt cheap, [01:02:40] if we look at it. [01:02:41] Just to open things up. [01:02:43] We spent $60,000 on kayak launches. [01:02:49] Part of that was because of their, [01:02:52] to make them ADA accessible, [01:02:55] and to accomplish that, of those locations. [01:02:58] These would be easier, especially if it's an existing dock, [01:03:02] and then to add a kayak launch. [01:03:02] That particular park is in Desperate Nubes Seawall, too. [01:03:05] We know that. [01:03:06] I think that, in addition to all of the conversations [01:03:10] that we had, I think a really critical piece [01:03:12] that came to mind on Saturday, [01:03:15] was that when you started the image [01:03:17] of the Washington Square, in Washington, D.C., [01:03:21] where there's a one place that you can go, [01:03:24] see what all parks we have in our community. [01:03:28] Because the obvious, you know, [01:03:30] one of the first things was, [01:03:31] I don't know what you have, [01:03:32] and I don't know what you offer. [01:03:33] And I've lived here 40 years, [01:03:36] and that was a huge revelation to me, [01:03:38] to see that all the parks, [01:03:40] you know, if you were to ask me [01:03:41] how many parks we have, I would start ticking off. [01:03:43] But, so I think that almost immediately, [01:03:45] we should have a blitz, where we have that locator. [01:03:51] And I know that we're going to do amenities in the parks, [01:03:53] but I think for right now, immediacy, [01:03:55] it should be that everybody knows where the parks are. [01:03:57] Because it would be, maybe, a revelation to folks [01:04:00] to recognize that that property that they think is not, is. [01:04:05] So. [01:04:06] The graphic that we're kind of itching to create [01:04:08] is one that makes everybody aware, [01:04:09] not only of your parks, [01:04:10] but how they're all connected by the river. [01:04:13] Because it doesn't pop out. [01:04:15] You don't know that until you start looking at the city, [01:04:18] and it's sort of silly. [01:04:19] And again, we told you, we paddle in the river, [01:04:22] and it kind of dawns on you [01:04:23] that one after another after another, [01:04:25] the city parks connect them. [01:04:28] And that's where we get back to saying, [01:04:29] wait a minute, every resident should be able [01:04:31] to get down to the river easily. [01:04:32] That is what you're all about. [01:04:34] So, yeah, we think that graphic [01:04:35] would be pretty easy to create. [01:04:36] And make it so easy to, you know, [01:04:40] and mobile-friendly, because that is something [01:04:42] that, you know, you're in the middle of whatever, [01:04:43] and just. [01:04:45] A phone, or are you talking visual, [01:04:46] like when you're driving on the road? [01:04:47] I think it should be mobile. [01:04:49] It should be something available on your phone, iPad, [01:04:51] you know, so on a website, whatever. [01:04:53] But I think that there should be more, [01:04:56] more places in the city that just logically. [01:04:59] You actually see a kiosk. [01:05:00] Yeah, any place that you go. [01:05:01] I mean, I don't know why we wouldn't even have it in, [01:05:04] you know, every, make it available to every business, [01:05:06] every, you know, just every place. [01:05:09] Raise awareness. [01:05:10] Right. [01:05:10] And the other thing I was gonna say is, [01:05:12] you know, it's curious to me that the county [01:05:15] has the facility that the old, you know, [01:05:17] that building right on Main and Bank, I think. [01:05:20] Health Department. [01:05:21] The Health Department, thank you. [01:05:23] There is an incredible influx of people [01:05:26] in and out of that building every day. [01:05:27] Moms with children. [01:05:29] I know it's a WIC and Health Department. [01:05:31] And the fact that, you know, as a society, [01:05:33] we've got, you know, obesity, adults and children, [01:05:36] as well as chronic disease, et cetera, et cetera. [01:05:38] I think that we should invite them to partner with us [01:05:41] to get the word out about everything [01:05:42] that we're talking about. [01:05:44] You know, not, you know, for them to be cross-marketing [01:05:46] and promoting what we have. [01:05:48] They're right across the street from Sims Park. [01:05:50] On that next meeting, they're coming, aren't they? [01:05:52] I think that's something that we should [01:05:53] definitely have a conversation about. [01:05:54] So in Parks and Rec, there's this nice idea [01:05:56] of park prescriptions, where you would say [01:06:00] the Health Department would have a little card [01:06:02] with your park system on it, and they hand it, [01:06:05] part of the prescription would be, [01:06:08] go walk in one of our parks. [01:06:10] You know, this whole idea of connecting your park system [01:06:13] to the idea of health and obesity. [01:06:16] So, there's some simple ideas like that. [01:06:20] I know that there are more people that don't know [01:06:23] about what we have in our city than do. [01:06:25] And whether they're residents or coming into the city [01:06:27] for specifically services, retail, or whatever, [01:06:31] that all those places need to know, [01:06:32] because where I'm working now, it amazes me [01:06:36] that people do not know that we have Sims Park. [01:06:39] Because if they come into the city [01:06:40] at the tail end of our city, and they never get [01:06:43] into the city, they don't even know [01:06:44] that there's a river in our city. [01:06:48] Maybe too, like as far as having a visual [01:06:50] where the parks are, a couple things we can look at it. [01:06:53] Number one, we're tied into the wayfinding project [01:06:56] we're doing, that's gonna have a pretty large impact. [01:06:59] I think Sims Park would be a phenomenal place [01:07:01] to have a really nice upscale kiosk, [01:07:05] basically a map of the city, [01:07:06] and where the other parks are located. [01:07:09] There's plenty of room to put something like that in there, [01:07:11] because that's our number one destination park. [01:07:13] Half the people that come that don't live [01:07:15] in the city limits, I guarantee you don't know [01:07:17] about Francis Avenue, about the small park, [01:07:19] but across from Schwetton, there's... [01:07:21] Well, and then also to that issue, [01:07:25] and I guess, I know that we're talking about branding, [01:07:27] but for all of those parks to have a defined area [01:07:30] that has branding, so that they know [01:07:32] that it is a city park. [01:07:34] So. [01:07:35] I think that's getting taken care of. [01:07:38] My wife discovered a branding item in Sims Park today. [01:07:44] The new wayfinding signage, [01:07:48] there's one in front of Shelter 2, I think. [01:07:51] I don't know which Shelter, but I know- [01:07:52] I believe it's Shelter 2. [01:07:54] It's just identifiers for the shelter system. [01:07:58] And they're based on the same design [01:08:01] as our wayfinding signage. [01:08:03] Yeah, it looks really nice. [01:08:06] She came back with a picture for me. [01:08:09] I think we had talked, maybe even a couple of years ago, [01:08:13] that we define some part of our parks [01:08:15] with the rope system and the things, [01:08:17] and it's so defining as a definition that this is the park. [01:08:22] And I don't know that we didn't necessarily pick that up, [01:08:25] but again, to have something that brands [01:08:28] all of the same areas. [01:08:29] Yes, yes, I can just humor me since I wasn't here Saturday. [01:08:32] What was the River Drive Park? [01:08:34] Why was there, was there people from the neighborhood there? [01:08:36] Why was it such a topic? [01:08:37] No, no, we were going around. [01:08:38] That's the, that's the site, yeah. [01:08:41] And it's an obvious dumping ground. [01:08:45] But if we did something to make that park [01:08:49] a little more interesting for the neighborhood. [01:08:52] You could rope it off with a nautical rope [01:08:53] and put something to do with it. [01:08:55] Put some play equipment in it, a picnic table, or whatever. [01:08:58] The discussion on Saturday, by the way, [01:09:00] had three breakout groups. [01:09:01] This was one, where we went through each of the parks [01:09:04] and started coming up with what improvements are needed. [01:09:07] This was another discussion, [01:09:09] and this was another discussion. [01:09:10] So we said, what's the appropriate response [01:09:14] to these top priority needs, [01:09:16] since there's no right or wrong answer, [01:09:17] and that's what it was, a brainstorming session [01:09:20] about different ideas for those. [01:09:22] So, and it was very fruitful, so. [01:09:25] So next steps, are we good? [01:09:28] I wanna make sure I don't keep you from dinner. [01:09:31] The next steps are that we will move into visioning, [01:09:36] and we'll, this probably will extend a little bit [01:09:38] beyond here, and we'll take the ideas from Saturday, [01:09:42] we'll take the ideas from this evening, [01:09:44] and we'll start coming up with these lofty ideals, [01:09:47] and we'll start listing improvements in different parks. [01:09:51] And then ultimately, we'll have to try [01:09:53] to take those lofty ideals, and then say, [01:09:57] what step by step, your idea, your question about, [01:10:01] how do you break it down into bite-sized steps, [01:10:04] and we'll work with staff to try to figure out [01:10:05] what's a reasonable implementation strategy. [01:10:09] I'd like to hear your input there, [01:10:10] that I don't really think we need to look at. [01:10:16] Yeah, I think that, yeah, I think that quarter mile [01:10:18] is almost just prohibitive. [01:10:22] What we talked about earlier with Lisa was, [01:10:24] looking at your vacant lands map, [01:10:26] where you already have surplus lands or vacant lands, [01:10:31] and also identifying what neighborhoods [01:10:34] really, really would benefit. [01:10:36] So, not just using the one criteria, the walking distance, [01:10:39] but economic benefits, social benefits, [01:10:41] where could you do the most good, [01:10:43] get the greatest bang for the buck, [01:10:45] for any new park improvements, [01:10:46] and seeing if we maybe could use an existing site, [01:10:49] or an existing partner, or something that would be, [01:10:52] trying to be really, really strategic [01:10:55] in what improvements we recommend. [01:10:57] I think the bulk of them are gonna be improvements [01:11:00] to what you have already, and then connectivity. [01:11:02] Part of it also was evaluation of Pine Hill, [01:11:08] figuring out what it's gonna be, whenever it arrives. [01:11:13] Number two was better defining the dog park as an amenity, [01:11:19] and then there was also a conversation about the skate park [01:11:24] and its proximity to whether it needed to be [01:11:28] internalized into the Recreation and Aquatic Center's [01:11:31] footprint, and last, but not be on that site, [01:11:43] if the site would be better served for an outside pickleball, [01:11:48] and then there was further conversation about the advent [01:11:51] of available property around the park, [01:11:54] around the Rec Center, and the overall usage, [01:11:59] and plus or minuses of the functions [01:12:02] that are being put on the Claude Pepper Center, [01:12:05] and if those had auxiliary locations, [01:12:08] that that could be utilized, so that it would free up. [01:12:13] So now, some of those, if you recall, [01:12:15] I talked about, I'm always apologetic about doing this, [01:12:19] but some of those are gonna be recommendations [01:12:20] that you actually do site planning, [01:12:24] which is not part of what our scope is right now, [01:12:25] but that some of those, the only way to come up [01:12:28] with the answer is to get into the design process [01:12:31] and start doing it. [01:12:31] If you take the Aquatic Center, what would it look like [01:12:35] if you did this, if you kept the skate park, [01:12:38] if you moved it, so our plan will get into recommendations [01:12:44] to do those things, but it probably isn't gonna solve [01:12:46] those things, so I wanna make sure you understand. [01:12:48] I would like to bring up that a skate park [01:12:50] might be divided into parts [01:12:54] and put into different neighborhoods. [01:12:58] Yeah, that's, see, that's one of the things, [01:13:00] so if, for me, I would get together with your kids. [01:13:05] I would get, you know, I'd do a skate park focus group [01:13:08] of every kid who you think skates, [01:13:10] and see if we can offer them pizza, [01:13:12] and let's talk about that, because some of them [01:13:15] would say, now and now, we really want a single place [01:13:17] we wanna hang out with our buddies, [01:13:18] but some of them may say, that's really hard [01:13:20] for me to get to. [01:13:21] We had in Raleigh, we had a group of skaters [01:13:24] who said, don't even build us a skate park. [01:13:26] What we'd really like to do is cruise along the sidewalks, [01:13:29] and could you give us little venues? [01:13:30] It's like a roving wolf pack, you know? [01:13:32] Could you give us a venue? [01:13:33] They've been doing that in the downtown, right? [01:13:35] Yes, so the only answer to me is you go, [01:13:38] is you get those kids in here. [01:13:40] Oh, I mean, I'd look at it around. [01:13:42] Right, right. [01:13:43] I'd still wanna keep them in the neighborhood, [01:13:44] not run them out. [01:13:46] But you know, if you don't have enough critical mass, [01:13:47] so if there's just one ramp and nothing else to do, [01:13:53] and they lose interest in 10 minutes, [01:13:55] you've wasted that money, so there's a synergy [01:13:58] of all them coming together with enough to do [01:14:01] that gets them excited, and then you lose it sometimes [01:14:04] if you get too small, so that's the only question. [01:14:07] I don't know the right answer. [01:14:08] And I think trending, the ones, as I said, [01:14:11] I think I'd shared with you, the one in Brooklyn [01:14:13] and the one down in Clearwater is that defined, [01:14:18] but not with what we have currently, [01:14:21] but you know, the bulls and all of the other stuff. [01:14:23] And you're getting to a million, two million dollars. [01:14:25] Right, well, the other piece of it was, [01:14:29] it surprised me that it's young adults, [01:14:32] you know, young men with young teen sons [01:14:36] who, you know, approach me about, you know, [01:14:38] how to fix a problem, so it's, yeah. [01:14:41] The other thing we had talked about Saturday, [01:14:44] and I can say this since we're in the sunshine, [01:14:46] they had talked about the dog park [01:14:48] not being really appropriate location, [01:14:51] and we had kicked around, if we closed it as a dog park [01:14:57] and put some sort of suspension, [01:15:00] pedestrian bridge across, that would tie that piece of land with the main part of the Great [01:15:05] Preserve and would actually make the access to it a lot better. [01:15:10] Debbie's hiding her head because she knows where I'm going with this. [01:15:12] I had suggested that there is a certain county enclave within the city of New Port Richey [01:15:17] on the west side of US-19, that if we annexed it and then immediately instituted eminent [01:15:25] domain to take over that entire piece, we could put a large fence up and it would be [01:15:29] perfect for large dogs, including the chief's canines, to run and that would solve some [01:15:36] other problems. [01:15:37] Is that your definition of a wolf pack? [01:15:40] Yeah. [01:15:41] If I can, I guess, address this to Councilman Davis and Phillips, because I don't have a [01:15:45] lot of history. [01:15:46] I was very, very bad at baseball growing up, so my history at Pine Hill stopped when I [01:15:51] was about 10. [01:15:53] And my kids play, Dylan plays soccer and basketball, so he's not in baseball, and Maddie plays [01:15:58] Dixie softball, so she's not out of that field. [01:16:00] Well, then next year or so, the county's basically saying, we're not going to run Pine Hill Park [01:16:04] anymore. [01:16:05] So what's going to happen to Little League baseball in West Pasco if, as a city, we say, [01:16:12] we're not going to be able to run it by ourselves? [01:16:14] What happens? [01:16:15] That's part of our discussion. [01:16:16] The bigger conversation needs to happen. [01:16:17] That happens. [01:16:18] That's going to be a big deal. [01:16:19] I believe there are critical safety concerns there, as well as ongoing maintenance concerns [01:16:38] long-term for us, as a city, because we're going to be back on point. [01:16:45] And that's the reason, at the meeting the other day, I said that some group has got [01:16:51] to take the initiative and point to at least begin the conversation with the county to [01:17:01] at least address this need, because, you know, basically, because of travel ball, West Pasco [01:17:10] doesn't have a girls' softball league anymore. [01:17:13] That went away. [01:17:14] They have Dixie, but not at Little League. [01:17:15] They have Dixie, but because of travel ball. [01:17:18] Their senior league field is a joke, because every time you go travel to play south at [01:17:23] the Philly stadiums and all that, it's like going from a postage stamp to a big ocean. [01:17:30] And it's been an icon there. [01:17:33] It really has. [01:17:34] It's been a real magnet. [01:17:35] But at the end of the day, it's landlocked, and I just don't know how you provide the [01:17:42] level of service and maintain that facility long-term, how to have optimal other uses. [01:17:52] I know there's history involved, because I coached my kids there for 15 years, and it's [01:17:57] sacrilegious, like the eighth rail or whatever, because you're talking about West Pasco Little [01:18:01] League. [01:18:02] But that whole dynamic has changed, and I'd like to know what the Little League program [01:18:08] looks at from Hudson all the way to Holiday, and how they're seeing their model working. [01:18:18] And if they could be a leverage point with the city and the other folks, create a larger, [01:18:24] safer environment for all that to come to, much like we talked about the travel. [01:18:29] I'm with the Deputy Mayor on this. [01:18:30] I think this is something, and perhaps Thursday night is when we can do an initial broach [01:18:35] on that with the county and say, hey, guys, we need some attention paid over here on the [01:18:39] west side. [01:18:40] And what can we do to get the land perhaps where you picked up on? [01:18:47] Pick a spot, but someplace that's big enough to actually do it right. [01:18:51] But I think we need to bring in the folks that are playing ball there, the Little League [01:18:59] group. [01:19:00] We need to bring them in. [01:19:01] We need to know what is their thoughts on it, and what do they see in the future. [01:19:04] I met with them during the interviews. [01:19:05] We have their needs, but we haven't had a discussion with them about, hey, where do [01:19:10] you see this property going? [01:19:11] What's your role? [01:19:12] What's the city's role? [01:19:13] The entire thing is we're going to take it back over as far as I'm concerned. [01:19:17] I think that everybody that participates on that facility ought to some way become a member [01:19:27] of our Park and Rec Association. [01:19:30] I'm looking from the outside. [01:19:31] It just doesn't seem like the facility is large enough. [01:19:34] I mean, even if you build the parking lot across from here, that's a dangerous road [01:19:38] the kids are walking across. [01:19:39] They're parking along Pine Hill Road and walking out in front. [01:19:42] It's very, very dangerous. [01:19:43] But I don't want it to come back where, oh, the city of New Parochia is shutting down [01:19:47] Little League. [01:19:48] Because it shouldn't be on us. [01:19:50] We need a larger facility for the Little League program. [01:19:53] You still have to get clear on what it is you want to provide. [01:19:56] If you say, we want to provide rec ball, is the facility large enough for that? [01:20:01] If we're not going to do travel team, we're not going to do tournament, we're not going [01:20:04] to do, we're going to just stay in the rec business, which some communities say that's [01:20:07] all they're going to do. [01:20:08] Is that facility big enough for you all to do? [01:20:11] What is rec ball compared to Little League? [01:20:14] If you're just doing recreation leagues. [01:20:16] Little League. [01:20:17] So if you're just doing Little League, you're not doing travel teams, you're not doing anybody [01:20:20] else. [01:20:21] Could that facility be a decent Little League? [01:20:23] Right. [01:20:24] Is there a need? [01:20:25] Do we have a recreational youth baseball league other than Little League? [01:20:29] No, I'm saying, is that facility adequate just for Little League, if you weren't doing [01:20:33] anything else? [01:20:34] We aren't doing anything else. [01:20:36] I thought you were also doing some travel teams there. [01:20:38] No, it's Little League baseball. [01:20:39] Okay, all right. [01:20:40] And it's not large enough. [01:20:41] And I don't want to come back to the city of New Parochia that we're shutting down Little [01:20:44] League, because that's not the case. [01:20:47] What's transpired there compared to Land O'Lakes, plan to Holiday, plan to, not Hudson so much, [01:20:55] but Hudson's going up and down a little up there off Denton Avenue. [01:21:01] What New Porichia's offered is an economic Little League. [01:21:06] There's minimal amount of charge. [01:21:09] There's no umpire charges. [01:21:11] The parents or coaches do all the umpiring. [01:21:14] So that saves them tons of money. [01:21:17] And that's why it sells out every year, because it's reasonable. [01:21:21] And some parents will travel that little extra distance to go ahead and come to this Little [01:21:26] League. [01:21:27] I'd be real curious. [01:21:28] I'm sorry, John, I didn't want to interrupt you. [01:21:31] And that's the reason that it's a success there. [01:21:34] It's purely financial, and they pack them in. [01:21:37] Portable. [01:21:39] Yeah, and people will travel from New Port Richey, from Hudson, out off Little Road, they'll [01:21:47] travel to there, because it is reasonable priced. [01:21:50] And they have regular Little League, which runs starting right now until summer, and [01:21:56] then they have a little bit of a fall league, which picks up another three months or so. [01:22:01] So since the county said they're going to give it back to us, they've done some major [01:22:08] work. [01:22:09] They've redone the fences up to about 10 feet, maybe call me nine, maybe it's 12, [01:22:15] something, whatever. [01:22:16] They've redone the fences up that level. [01:22:18] They've done a little bit of work on the dugouts, but most of it was done by the rotary [01:22:26] that came in and spent a week in there. [01:22:29] But we still need, as a city, to get on top of them to give it back to us and not in the [01:22:36] condition of, you know, like Field of Dreams 20 years after they left. [01:22:41] And that's the way it looked a year or so ago when we went and looked at it. [01:22:45] But I would be curious to know, who's using that? [01:22:48] Are they residents? [01:22:50] Are they children in our city? [01:22:52] I just told you. [01:22:53] I just said it's an outlining area. [01:22:56] People do it totally for economic reasons. [01:22:59] My concern is not the condition of the fields or the dugouts. [01:23:04] It's the fact that it's not a large enough facility to sustain that little league anymore. [01:23:08] If you go there during any Saturday league games, it's parked all the way down Pine Hill. [01:23:14] It's inadequate. [01:23:15] We really do need to chop this off so we can take a very quick dinner break.

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3. 3Adjournment▶ 1:23:21