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   2015/2016 Downtown Landscaping Improvements Project - 2nd Design Presentation

   discussed

   The Genesis Group's Jim Gilman presented a revised second design for the 2015/2016 Downtown Landscaping Improvements Project, covering areas west and east of the river, the Beef O'Brady site, the Main Street downtown core, Grand Boulevard, public parking lots (DeVries, Gloria Swanson, Railroad Square, Florida and Adams), and the eastern gateway retention pond. Council debated tree species (palms vs. crepe myrtles vs. oaks) for downtown shade, ultimately discussing awnings as a shade alternative since available planting space is limited. No formal vote was taken; council provided direction and feedback for further design refinement.

   • direction:Council directed staff to explore an awning program for downtown businesses as an alternative shade strategy, potentially coordinating with the design committee and Greater New Port Richey Main Street. (none)

   📍Adams Street📍DeVries parking lot📍Florida and Adams📍Gloria Swanson parking lot📍Grand Avenue / Grand Boulevard📍Main Street📍Railroad Square📍River Road / Main Street median🏢Beef O'Brady's🏢Chamber of Commerce🏢Coral Reef🏢Fitzgerald's🏢Genesis Group🏢Greater New Port Richey Main Street🏢Hacienda🏢Main Street Landings🏢Marlow Elementary👤Jim Gilman👤Lisa👤Phillips👤Rivera#2015/2016 Downtown Landscaping Improvements Project#Code-required perimeter hedges for parking lots#Crepe myrtle vs. windmill palm tree selection#Drake Elm relocation#Eastern gateway commercial district

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   [00:00:20] We've got two items on the agenda, the first being downtown landscaping improvements. [00:00:24] Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council. [00:00:29] The last time this agenda item was before you, there was some thinking among the group [00:00:37] that you'd like to see some alternatives to some of the proposed landscape materials [00:00:42] that were being proposed for your consideration in that respect. [00:00:48] Mr. Rivera has worked with a consultant from the Genesis Group. [00:00:54] Mr. Jim Gilman is in attendance this evening, and between the two of them, they're prepared [00:00:59] to make a presentation to you this evening. [00:01:10] Good evening, everybody. [00:01:11] I am Jim Gilman from the Genesis Group. [00:01:14] I'm a registered landscape... [00:01:16] Jim, can you pull that mic down a little bit? [00:01:18] Sure. [00:01:19] Get it on the record. [00:01:20] Thank you. [00:01:21] Is this a little better? [00:01:22] Yeah, it's not as much. [00:01:23] Anyway, I am Jim Gilman from Genesis, registered landscape architect and a certified [00:01:29] arborist, and I will, I guess if it's all right, very briefly review what we talked [00:01:36] about last time and then highlight the modifications that we've brought for your consideration [00:01:42] and review. [00:01:45] This is an overall map of the areas that we considered. [00:01:54] Yellow west of the river. [00:01:56] Blue is the area right at the river along Main Street. [00:02:00] In green, just to the east of the river, the Befoe Brady site. [00:02:05] In purple is the downtown core along Main Street. [00:02:10] In green is the north-south area along Grand Avenue that we looked at. [00:02:15] In yellow are four public parking lots that we took a look at, and to the far east in [00:02:22] red is the area that we were asked to consider as sort of an eastern gateway to the commercial [00:02:29] district. [00:02:34] West of the river, the idea is to leave the trees in place in the medians and replace [00:02:42] ground cover. [00:02:44] Also to infill some of the palms along the roadside edge as budget will allow. [00:02:54] We have a couple of enlargements showing what this might look like. [00:02:58] This is the median just to the west of River Road along Main Street, and existing crepe [00:03:05] myrtle in place, which happened to be lavender. [00:03:08] We've removed the ground cover and replaced it with the species you see on the right. [00:03:13] The candidate species are dwarf Indian hawthorn, variegated Confederate jasmine, and also fountain [00:03:20] grass. [00:03:23] This is the larger median that is to the east of River Road, and the concept here is to [00:03:31] leave the existing Canary Island date palms in place, and to remove and replace the ground [00:03:37] cover, and also to remove and replace the sod at the nose of the median. [00:03:43] Candidate species very similar to what we used on the other median, fountain grass. [00:03:50] We did add in some society garlic for a little color in front of the sign, and sable palm [00:03:59] for along the roadside edge. [00:04:04] There are a couple of bump outs where parallel parking occurs, and we're proposing to do [00:04:11] a clean sweep of those, and replace the ground cover, and also to add sable palm. [00:04:21] This is the Beef O'Brady site. [00:04:23] I know that's a little bit of a dated photograph, but anyway, hopefully this will get the point [00:04:27] across. [00:04:28] We proposed to add in crepe myrtle to tie into the crepes that are planted at the river, [00:04:36] and also to add in the hedge along the edge of the property as required by code. [00:04:43] That's what we're portraying here. [00:04:46] The white crepe myrtle used in this location ties into what's used at the river. [00:04:52] The lavender crepe myrtle that are proposed for the bulk of Main Street will help to tie [00:04:58] this project in with the project along US 19, and I can talk a bit more about that in [00:05:05] a moment. [00:05:06] I'm sorry, but the plants in that, what are those bushes there? [00:05:17] Burford holly is the proposed species, and we're trying to, we were requested to try [00:05:23] and create some uniformity from place to place, and Burford has done well in many locations [00:05:31] in the city, and so in various parking lot locations, as you'll see as I go forward, [00:05:37] that's the species that we've used again and again to try and create a little uniformity. [00:05:48] This view is along Main Street, and you can see the view is looking west along this sidewalk here. [00:05:58] What we're showing here are proposed windmill palms along the street to create a streetscape [00:06:06] and replacement for the existing Drake Elms, which you'll see in a moment, we're proposing [00:06:14] to relocate to other locations. [00:06:18] This is just to give you a better idea of what a windmill palm looks like. [00:06:22] That's actually a project in Pensacola. [00:06:31] The other option that was considered for Main Street was to do crepe myrtle. [00:06:37] What we showed you the last time I presented was, as you see here, with crepe myrtle planted [00:06:45] in each tree grate along Main Street, and the concern was raised that perhaps that many [00:06:53] trees might continue the problem of blocking commercial signage, so we have prepared another [00:07:03] exhibit, as you'll see in a second, that portrays a crepe myrtle in every other tree [00:07:10] grate with some low ornamentals in the tree grates that don't contain trees. [00:07:19] These are some of the candidate species we suggested as potentials for this location. [00:07:26] I think a low ground cover is a good idea, and then something a little taller. [00:07:31] This is a dwarf firebush, which blooms orange much of the year. [00:07:38] Variegated Schefflera is a possibility. [00:07:40] Croton, for color, is a possibility, although it will freeze if the weather gets too cold. [00:07:47] Dwarf Indian Hawthorn is an old standard, not exciting, but durable and predictable. [00:07:57] This gives you an idea looking across Main Street at what you might see as if you're [00:08:03] standing on the sidewalk looking across the street at the palm option. [00:08:12] This is the crepe myrtle option, same view with crepe myrtle, but with a tree shown in [00:08:19] every grate. [00:08:21] The next view is showing crepe myrtle option, but with trees in every other tree grate and [00:08:32] ornamentals in the grates that don't have trees in them. [00:08:40] Then moving forward, the various parking lots that we looked at. [00:08:46] This is the DeVries parking lot, bringing the perimeter up to code and enhancing it [00:08:52] aesthetically. [00:08:56] Here's another shot of the same. [00:08:58] Can you explain that comment, perimeter up to code? [00:09:03] Can you define it? [00:09:06] Yes. [00:09:07] That our parking lots right now don't meet our own code, is that what you're basically [00:09:12] saying? [00:09:14] It's one word, yes or no. [00:09:15] Yes. [00:09:16] Okay, that's all I needed. [00:09:17] Can you go back a slide, please? [00:09:18] Some of this proposed, what's that top, the minia, how do you pronounce that, that jasmine? [00:09:26] This is a ground cover that you probably are familiar with and don't know it. [00:09:30] I haven't heard what it's called. [00:09:32] Minima is the name of that particular culture. [00:09:34] I like stuff like this, but I just want to be sure, once again, when it gets into landscaping, [00:09:38] if we go with, say, that jasmine on the ground instead of mulch, are we going to be maintaining [00:09:42] it? [00:09:43] We have the staff, we're projected to know how much manpower it's going to take. [00:09:49] I want it to, it all looks great, anytime you plant new plants, it always looks good. [00:09:53] I'm more concerned with two or three years from now. [00:09:56] Right. [00:09:57] All of the projects that we've proposed to council recently, we've taken that into consideration [00:10:02] because you're absolutely right. [00:10:03] Including all these different aspects that he's proposing, right? [00:10:08] This is a second view of Gerben DeVries taken from Adams Street. [00:10:19] The difference between the existing and the proposed is selective replacement of a couple [00:10:24] of trees that aren't in very good condition in the addition of a code required hedge. [00:10:30] What's the purpose of the code required hedge? [00:10:35] Apparently, Councilman Phillips said we have a code currently. [00:10:39] What's the purpose of it? [00:10:59] This view is of the Gloria Swanson parking lot, north of downtown, and the existing condition [00:11:04] here. [00:11:05] The proposed solution is to add in some brick to create some walkthroughs. [00:11:12] This is, again, minima jasmine, which is a pretty easy to maintain item. [00:11:18] I mean, essentially, once it's established, you just need to edge along the curb. [00:11:23] Other than that, it shouldn't require a lot of care. [00:11:28] And, again, addition of hedges where code would require it. [00:11:35] Now... [00:11:36] I might ask about that minima you said? [00:11:38] Yes. [00:11:39] Okay. [00:11:40] So the minima is like jasmine? [00:11:42] Well, it is a jasmine. [00:11:44] Is it a flower? [00:11:46] No. [00:11:47] Minima has a very diminutive flower. [00:11:50] Oh, okay. [00:11:51] The confederate jasmine flowers heavily in the spring and is fragrant and could be used [00:11:58] interchangeably, but it's a little more rangy. [00:12:01] It's harder to contain. [00:12:03] So, yes, it can be done, but it would require a little bit more maintenance. [00:12:07] I'm just curious to know if it's greenery that we have or... [00:12:13] Minima is essentially green. [00:12:15] If you wanted to have seasonal color, then I'd recommend confederate jasmine, [00:12:21] which could be used in a similar way. [00:12:23] Yeah. [00:12:29] Well, that's a good point that Lisa brought up. [00:12:33] Minima is an extremely hardy plant material that will tolerate some foot traffic. [00:12:40] Now, if it gets trampled over in the same place on a daily basis, [00:12:44] you'll get a little cattle path, but that's true of sod as well. [00:12:48] It's pretty hardy. [00:12:49] So I do think it's a good choice for a situation like this. [00:12:56] The other option, frankly, would probably be mulch in a situation like this. [00:13:02] Railroad Square, the improvements here are pretty simple. [00:13:06] We're proposing to leave these drake elm in place, [00:13:11] to add some plant material to raised planters, [00:13:15] to essentially complete what's already there, which is some Minima jasmine, [00:13:20] and then to add a vertical element. [00:13:22] And what we're proposing is a pygmy date palm, a robellini palm for that location. [00:13:29] Up at Florida and Adams, north of downtown, here's the existing condition. [00:13:37] What we have proposed is addition of another tree, probably an oak in this location, [00:13:44] and provision of the hedge as required. [00:13:51] And at the east end of the project, where this large retention pond exists, [00:13:57] taking some of the drake elms from downtown, [00:14:01] the ones that we can successfully get out of the tree grates, [00:14:04] and I think some we'll transplant, others will be more difficult, [00:14:08] and placing them around the retention area, and also here, [00:14:14] and placing them around the retention area, and also here, [00:14:20] and then doing a little bit more extensive improvements at these little areas here, [00:14:27] these little noses, if you will, which we show a little more clearly in the next slide. [00:14:35] So here is an on-the-ground portrayal of what the nose could look like [00:14:43] adjacent to the retention pond. [00:14:46] That looks really good, in my opinion, [00:14:48] compared to what's currently there, the weeds and just the three palm trees. [00:14:51] And it's only three species. [00:14:53] I think it should be fairly easy to maintain and keep looking good. [00:14:58] And then I think... [00:15:00] a similar treatment for this as well would make sense. [00:15:06] And we're using similar species [00:15:08] to what we were proposing on the west end of town [00:15:11] to tie them together. [00:15:15] Along the railroad right-of-way south of town [00:15:18] on Grand Boulevard, you'll see in the next slide [00:15:21] that this is the location where we're proposing [00:15:24] to relocate numerous drake elms [00:15:28] from the downtown core to this location. [00:15:32] It's wide open, I think it's a good place for them, [00:15:35] can provide some seasonal shade to the parking lot, [00:15:38] or excuse me, to the sidewalk, [00:15:41] and hopefully make it a little more user-friendly [00:15:44] when the weather is hot and some shade [00:15:46] would be a beautiful thing. [00:15:52] That is... [00:15:53] Can we confirm that we own all that property? [00:15:57] Will you pull up the photos that I sent? [00:15:59] I went out today because I didn't know [00:16:01] what you were gonna use in your presentation, [00:16:04] and unfortunately, I went to Gulf High [00:16:06] and I'm a visual learner, so I basically... [00:16:10] And this starts at the end of years. [00:16:11] This is basically looking up Main Street [00:16:16] at the retention pond area. [00:16:18] So if you go to the next one, that's looking at the hill [00:16:21] and it doesn't take into effect what you did, [00:16:23] but that's the fencing around there [00:16:25] that doesn't have anything today. [00:16:27] So if you'll just keep flipping through. [00:16:29] This is going down Main Street towards City Hall. [00:16:32] Obviously, you get that. [00:16:34] These are the Drake Elms today that are massive. [00:16:37] They have really thin trunks, [00:16:40] and they've got, since they're in full bloom right now, [00:16:43] or they're out, you can't see any... [00:16:48] Keep going. [00:16:50] And of course, that just gives you an example [00:16:51] of what it looks like today, which is lower than yours. [00:16:55] That, again, goes down Grand Boulevard going south. [00:16:58] That's in front of Coral Reef. [00:17:03] That's looking out towards the monument, it seems. [00:17:08] That's on the Mayor's Street right there. [00:17:12] That's looking down towards West. [00:17:17] And this is looking back east on Main Street. [00:17:21] And then, of course, that's right by the ice cream shop. [00:17:25] What all that does, and of course, [00:17:27] those are the palms that are there today [00:17:29] with the existing that are in place. [00:17:31] So those are current conditions today, [00:17:35] because I didn't know what you were gonna use [00:17:37] on as far as your illustrations, [00:17:39] and we talked about a lot of different things last time. [00:17:42] Mine is just we're making sure [00:17:44] that we own all that property past Cecilia and going down. [00:17:47] I know we go out to a certain point. [00:17:49] I just wanted to make sure we're... [00:17:52] Across from Marlow Elementary on the Grand. [00:17:57] We do. [00:17:58] Okay. [00:18:01] May I speak? [00:18:02] Just two little things. [00:18:03] I like the grass in the median on East Main [00:18:06] in front of the Chamber of Commerce and Main Street landings. [00:18:09] I don't know why we need to pull that sod out. [00:18:11] It's always well-maintained. [00:18:12] It's very green. [00:18:13] I think we can landscape around that. [00:18:15] I don't see why you pull something out that looks good [00:18:17] just to replace it with something else that might look good. [00:18:20] I personally like this sod. [00:18:22] I think we can landscape and tie that into it. [00:18:27] You can bring it back to median on West Main. [00:18:37] It was minima, but to be perfectly honest, [00:18:40] I'll have to flip back and refresh my own memory. [00:18:44] Oh, this is actually variegated Confederate jasmine, [00:18:50] which to me, that doesn't look that much different [00:18:51] than the sod that's currently there. [00:18:53] Well, the only thing is, would it need to be... [00:18:55] I mean, the lawn needs to be mowed. [00:18:57] What would need to happen to that? [00:18:59] It needs to be edged. [00:19:01] The jasmine, I mean, the minima, is that what it is? [00:19:05] Jasmine I have in my yard? [00:19:06] It does need to be trimmed, not just edged. [00:19:08] It grows up high. [00:19:10] It can. [00:19:10] And I think it will be a nice alternative to mulch, [00:19:13] but just keep in mind, I don't agree with what you said. [00:19:16] It doesn't, as far as durability goes, [00:19:18] it is durable, lasts throughout different seasons, [00:19:21] but if someone steps in it, it leaves a footprint. [00:19:24] It doesn't just poof up like stepping on, say, [00:19:28] a sponge or something like that. [00:19:30] Because I have a viburnum in the middle of mine, [00:19:32] and when I first hired my last landscapers, [00:19:35] they came in and just thought they could just [00:19:37] walk right over it to trim the viburnum, [00:19:38] and there was footprints in there for over a week. [00:19:40] So it does leave footprints, but it looks great. [00:19:43] So I think it's a great alternative to mulch. [00:19:47] And the only other thing that I thought looked [00:19:48] very, very common is the small palm at the planter. [00:19:51] What do you call the split palm? [00:19:53] They're just so common, they're everywhere. [00:19:55] I think we can do something better than that [00:19:56] with that planter in front of Fitzgerald's. [00:19:59] But I think the biggest thing we have to decide tonight [00:20:02] is what trees we want downtown. [00:20:12] Yeah, the zero shade. [00:20:14] That's my biggest objection. [00:20:16] That place is just like walking through hell [00:20:19] during the summer. [00:20:20] Right, which is how we left off the last meeting. [00:20:22] Now we're back here, so do you think crape myrtles [00:20:24] are gonna create enough shades? [00:20:25] If not, then the shade that is created, [00:20:27] like on this side of Main Street, are oak trees. [00:20:30] Are we gonna plant oak trees there? [00:20:32] Is there enough room in our sidewalks to do so? [00:20:35] That's what Robert was saying, we don't have. [00:20:38] My concern, particularly with the palms, [00:20:41] is that it just makes it impossible [00:20:44] to walk without just dying in the heat. [00:20:47] And if I wanted that, I'd move to Fallujah. [00:20:49] It's just not appropriate. [00:20:51] So palms are out, crape myrtles in? [00:20:53] The oaks didn't survive, [00:20:54] because that's what was put in initially. [00:20:56] Because unfortunately, I keep having to say, [00:20:58] I remember when I was on council before, [00:21:00] and that's what we did. [00:21:01] And the only place that they survived strategically [00:21:05] was here in front of City Hall, down, [00:21:08] and then over by the Hacienda. [00:21:13] But in most cases, they weren't in a contained grade. [00:21:16] They're wide open, so they got to grow however they were. [00:21:21] I personally, at this point, [00:21:25] we're back and forth about walkable city [00:21:28] with shade and everything else, [00:21:30] and we've taken every possible move over the last 20 years [00:21:33] to take out awnings or anything else, [00:21:36] and now we've got trees that block businesses. [00:21:39] So at the end of the day, I don't know, [00:21:42] when my wife and I try to do interior improvements, [00:21:47] I always lose, because I don't, [00:21:51] and at the end of the day, [00:21:52] I just want something I don't have to go back [00:21:54] every three years and swap out, [00:21:58] and give it some definition, [00:21:59] and not look like it looks, [00:22:01] doesn't look like the checkerboard effect [00:22:03] you get from the Tennessee Volunteer End Zone [00:22:07] when you're looking around. [00:22:08] So that's the thing. [00:22:10] You can't have it consistent all the way through. [00:22:12] And I agree, and we can't keep putting these trees [00:22:14] in downtown and yanking them out. [00:22:15] I mean, people are looking at us like, [00:22:16] what a waste of taxpayers' money. [00:22:18] But I mean, are we able to meet our objective [00:22:21] to provide shade then, [00:22:22] with the squared out in the sidewalk plots [00:22:25] that we have to plant trees? [00:22:26] I mean, the crepe myrtle's going to provide shade [00:22:28] when they grow up, get a little higher. [00:22:30] I just don't see, with that limited space, [00:22:33] us being able to have a plant or tree [00:22:36] that's going to provide the shade we're looking for [00:22:38] in that confined space. [00:22:40] And they're blooming, [00:22:42] but during the time that they're not blooming, [00:22:44] they're not going to create shade. [00:22:47] Right, in the wintertime, you wouldn't have any shade. [00:22:50] I think what we would probably want to look at [00:22:53] is if you went with the palm trees, [00:22:55] then you're kind of committing yourself [00:22:56] to going with the awnings in front of the businesses. [00:23:00] And then you have that open space [00:23:02] where you can have the shade, [00:23:04] and the tree isn't blocking the store frontage [00:23:06] and the signs. [00:23:08] If you elect to go with the trees to give you the shade, [00:23:12] crepe myrtle is one that would thrive [00:23:14] in that environment that you have, [00:23:17] but you're absolutely correct, [00:23:18] it wouldn't give you all the year-round shade. [00:23:21] The biggest problem with the drakes [00:23:22] is they're filthy, filthy trees. [00:23:25] They're dropping everything, leaves, bark. [00:23:31] They shed like 12 months out of the year. [00:23:33] I'm not in the plan, I don't believe. [00:23:38] How do the crepe myrtles compare? [00:23:42] Flowers are going to fall, right? [00:23:44] Right, the crepe myrtles, the flowers will fall. [00:23:48] You'll have the little small, they're real small, [00:23:51] and they'll start falling if you have a storm [00:23:53] that we had this weekend. [00:23:55] And then it'll rain and they'll wash away, [00:23:57] but they will shed. [00:23:58] I think that we have to recognize or realize [00:24:01] that if we have something that's growing [00:24:02] and it's going to bloom, we're going to have that. [00:24:07] But I think the bigger issue is we are trying to, [00:24:13] that's what I thought we were trying to do, [00:24:14] is create a walkable downtown. [00:24:16] And you have to have shade trees in order to create that. [00:24:19] If you have a walkable downtown [00:24:21] and you have people walking on, [00:24:22] I'm thinking of Coco, City of Coco. [00:24:25] They have the shops. [00:24:27] Once you're walking on the street [00:24:29] and you're looking at the shops, [00:24:31] whatever windows or whatever's there, [00:24:34] you're already there. [00:24:36] So back to shade. [00:24:37] What is the city's current stance on awnings [00:24:40] over businesses downtown? [00:24:42] We've been against them in the past. [00:24:43] I guess I'm playing catch-up here and... [00:24:45] No, we're in favor of awnings in front of businesses. [00:24:49] Right, I mean, I think that's your best way [00:24:50] to provide shade. [00:24:52] If we don't have enough space to plant trees large enough [00:24:55] that will grow and provide a shade, [00:24:57] that's the only other option, correct? [00:24:58] Correct. [00:24:59] So let's look into a way or a plan where we can start, [00:25:02] you know, get with the design committee, [00:25:04] maybe at Greater New Portage and Main Street, [00:25:05] and start coming up with a plan [00:25:07] to maybe get awnings in place downtown with businesses, [00:25:09] whether we match funds or just start working on a plan [00:25:13] to bring awnings where it's not all different color awnings [00:25:16] and it looks just, you know, where they all tie in together, [00:25:19] but are unique to the business maybe as well. [00:25:21] I mean, I think that's our only other option, correct, [00:25:24] as far as providing shade? [00:25:26] Well, I think too, though, [00:25:27] that there are areas of the downtown [00:25:29] that even having awning on the window, you know, [00:25:34] is not gonna create shade on the street. [00:25:36] I'm thinking of Dr. Cato, not Dr. Cato, [00:25:40] but right north of, west of the, [00:25:46] where Johnny Gritz is and the corner, Adam Street, [00:25:49] there's a strip of, that building in there where the- [00:25:52] Dr. Kinnonens' old office, you're talking about? [00:25:53] Dr. Kinnonens' old office, I mean, that would be- [00:25:55] Bernstein's. [00:25:59] But again, I think, [00:26:01] and I don't know that we need to make the decision tonight. [00:26:05] We haven't looked, I don't think we've looked [00:26:07] at enough tree species, I guess, [00:26:08] but right now we're talking about either or, [00:26:11] you know, palm trees or crepe myrtle, [00:26:12] and I just don't know that we've necessarily- [00:26:19] I'd like to, if I may, we've looked at many species. [00:26:25] The difficulty is the location. [00:26:30] You have a four by four or five by five area [00:26:34] for a tree to grow in and are asking that tree [00:26:38] to be large enough to shade a sidewalk [00:26:41] and be tall enough to not block the signage of buildings. [00:26:48] That's a tall order for the amount of growing space [00:26:51] that's available as well as the amount of space [00:26:55] from that tree grate to the face of the building. [00:26:58] You know, the average life of an urban tree, [00:27:01] I mean, in a truly urban setting like this [00:27:03] is something like 15 years, whereas in the wild, [00:27:07] it's probably, depending on the species, [00:27:08] you know, 80, 100, 200 years. [00:27:14] I have, I feel as though, you know, [00:27:20] my professional opinion is that Robert's approach [00:27:25] is correct. [00:27:27] Awnings, by and large, are the way to provide shade [00:27:31] in a very constrained environment like this. [00:27:34] And to search for a plant material that will provide [00:27:37] that for you is just going to cause other problems. [00:27:40] And it might mean that you're replacing your trees [00:27:42] every 10 or 15 years continually, [00:27:45] and never reach, never attain the size [00:27:48] to achieve what you're trying to achieve. [00:27:52] If I were king, I would plant palms and put in awnings. [00:27:59] I think that's going to achieve your objective the best. [00:28:04] And it's not the only approach, [00:28:06] but I think it's the cleanest approach [00:28:08] that will solve multiple problems. [00:28:12] They will fit the location. [00:28:14] Mr. Mayor. [00:28:16] Go ahead. [00:28:17] No, she started. [00:28:18] Should we constrain ourselves by putting in the plant, [00:28:20] the tree grates? [00:28:21] Because obviously, the trees that are here, [00:28:24] without the tree grates, have had the opportunity to grow. [00:28:30] Well, in one way, yes, and in another, no, [00:28:33] because you've created more sidewalk space. [00:28:36] So in a very constrained urban environment, [00:28:39] it's difficult to provide that kind of open space [00:28:43] for greenery, and it's just, it's such valuable real estate, [00:28:46] there's not much to go around. [00:28:49] So you could create more green space for your trees, [00:28:52] but the price you pay for that is less sidewalk, [00:28:58] and also more areas that could potentially be trampled. [00:29:02] So, you know, it's a give and a take, [00:29:04] no matter how you look at this. [00:29:06] But if you're trying to create an environment [00:29:10] that's conducive to active retail, [00:29:13] then you're encouraging a lot of foot traffic, [00:29:16] and I'm not sure that less sidewalk [00:29:19] is a good part of that mixture, if that's your objective. [00:29:26] Yeah, Mr. Mayor, I approach this thing in three ways. [00:29:29] One, I was looking for something [00:29:31] that would take less maintenance from my maintenance staff, [00:29:35] because they get taxed. [00:29:38] I was looking for uniformity to the best I can in that core. [00:29:43] I can't do anything about Adams down to City Hall. [00:29:49] I can't do anything in front and around Hacienda. [00:29:52] I wanted some consistency, number one. [00:29:54] I wanted minimal, and I also, we had talked about possibly, [00:29:59] and you've shown. [00:30:00] it, eliminating some trees so you could do something lower so you would open things up. [00:30:07] Those are my three things. I wanted to return New Port Richey to what I remember New Port Richey downtown used to be. They had awnings, they had overhangs, because my dad used to [00:30:22] have a business downtown. If we could reintroduce that, because we can't wait for ourselves [00:30:30] to redefine what downtown is. Downtown defines what itself is every day by who moves in. [00:30:39] Sure we'd like to see in retail where in the old Roscoe drug location. We got a chiropractor. [00:30:46] We've got office. We're going to pick up some restaurants and people get out of their car. [00:30:52] They don't worry about it on a sunny day and it's hot. They get in the restaurant. Most [00:30:56] of them don't sit out under the thing. We're going to get back to the same continual debate, [00:31:01] a walkable downtown with shade and everything else. If you expand those planting areas and [00:31:07] you use the wrong trees like oaks, about 10 years from now people are going to say, how [00:31:12] frigging stupid were those people, because it's going to buckle the sidewalk. You're [00:31:17] going to end up doing even more. My three goals were to consistency of presentation, [00:31:25] minimalize what it was, and open it back up. We want to slow traffic down by what we did, [00:31:31] but we also wanted to do a situation where people when they come through, when they do [00:31:36] slow down, will see what's there. We've evolved back from the bar scene to a certain degree, [00:31:43] but we still aren't ever going to be a retail hub in the downtown setting. It's just the [00:31:49] economics just doesn't seem to be there. That's the way I approached it. [00:31:57] This is maybe a question for Lisa. How difficult would it be to retrofit awnings on all of [00:32:05] the buildings now that don't have them downtown? [00:32:19] Contact the business owners directly and say, hey, we have a... [00:32:50] We would like you to be interested in it. [00:32:55] You've got awnings on my block, and you've got some of it on the north side of Main between [00:33:00] Grand and Bank, but I know you guys ran into difficulties even with the ice cream shop [00:33:06] trying to suggest an awning there. [00:33:20] We're talking about something that purposely goes farther over the sidewalk, maybe you'd see down in the... [00:33:27] Area between Nebraska and Missouri, when they put the awnings up there, I mean, that just [00:33:57] made all the difference in the world. [00:34:04] It does have that domino effect, but if we were looking to do awnings with trees, then [00:34:11] my preference would definitely be the Crepe Myrtle because I think it blends itself. [00:34:18] Colorful palm trees, I like them where you had them positioned against the fence along [00:34:26] at Main or at Herbs, but in the regular part of the downtown, I think it just... [00:34:37] I would agree with the Crepe Myrtle's pose to the palm trees, and I really think we need [00:34:42] to go after this awning idea and hire a professional and let he or she come in and look at our [00:34:49] downtown because it is unique. [00:34:51] The buildings are all... [00:34:52] They're not continuous. [00:34:53] Each building's different, and come up with a concept and review that, I guess, before [00:35:01] we go meet with property owners, I would say, right? [00:35:04] Go ahead and get that done first and foremost. [00:35:07] Concepts and visuals, and then when we go meet with business owners, we have something [00:35:12] to present rather than just saying, hey, we'd like to put an awning up in your building. [00:35:15] What do you think? [00:35:17] Because especially those historic buildings where... [00:35:28] It's going to... [00:35:29] Like we're all agreeing, it's going to bring more people downtown, especially in the summer [00:35:33] months, and keep them... [00:35:35] I think they're going to have an area to get out of the sun outside of just Sims Park and [00:35:39] stand in under an oak tree, and it's going to help retain visitors throughout the day [00:35:45] in the summer. [00:35:46] I respect your opinion, Mr. Starkey and Mr. Bill Thomas, but I've got to tell you, this [00:35:50] is Florida. [00:35:51] When it's hot, human nature these days is to not be on the sidewalks. [00:35:56] I know that's what we want to promote. [00:35:58] I'm just saying human nature these days doesn't lead me to that, but at the end of the day, [00:36:06] that's what we'd like to see happen, and I agree, but I haven't seen that, but I respect [00:36:13] that that's what we'd like to be. [00:36:15] What are your thoughts on the awning? [00:36:20] I'm okay with the awnings. [00:36:22] I just personally, symmetrically, I'd like to either eliminate a tree or two and open [00:36:28] those grates up so that you get a little distance because they grow together, and you can see [00:36:34] it from the pictures I took today, the ones that are like that, that element. [00:36:40] From that standpoint, the awnings just take me back to what I remember downtown used to [00:36:48] be like. [00:36:50] Any thoughts? [00:36:52] First of all, this guy's a professional. [00:36:55] If we went into the audience here, we'd probably get whatever 10 different ideas if we went [00:37:02] into there. [00:37:03] We've got five different ideas here. [00:37:06] I would go with him. [00:37:07] He called himself, he wished he was God. [00:37:09] I'll take God's word. [00:37:11] He said put some palm trees and put some awnings out there. [00:37:14] He does this for a living. [00:37:16] But if you take, you brought up Grand Boulevard and it'd be in shade, putting awnings in shade [00:37:21] on one side and shade on the other side. [00:37:23] Well, that's a north-south road, and when the sun's coming up, it's great to be on the [00:37:28] east side, and when the sun's setting, it's great to be on the west side, and that doesn't [00:37:33] happen going up and down Main Street. [00:37:34] You mentioned Cocoa. [00:37:36] That's a north-south road. [00:37:38] Main Street's an east-west road, so it depends on the time of year whether you're going to [00:37:42] get shade in there, whether it's a tree or whether it's an awning or whatever. [00:37:46] Without a doubt, you've chosen different sides of the road because the shade was on the other [00:37:51] side of the road when you walked downtown. [00:37:53] So my opinion, I like his palm trees and I like the awning idea. [00:37:58] That's what Florida's about. [00:37:59] That's what it looks like. [00:38:00] That's what it looks like. [00:38:01] We don't have to mess with this time of year or that time of year. [00:38:04] And we've got palm trees going down west Main. [00:38:08] But just to clarify, sir, did you say palms? [00:38:11] No, no. [00:38:12] No, I'm asking. [00:38:13] Oh, oh. [00:38:14] Thank you, sir. [00:38:15] Did you say palms? [00:38:16] I thought I heard you say trees. [00:38:17] I didn't know necessarily you said palm trees. [00:38:20] And the only reason, again, my preference would be for the look of it, for the colorfulness [00:38:25] of it, and for the uniformity. [00:38:27] The fact that we already have crape myrtles coming along Main Street. [00:38:32] That would be my preference, those crapes. [00:38:35] Palm trees will survive in these restricted areas, restricted holes in the ground. [00:38:41] You know, they don't need to grow roots. [00:38:45] Well, they're not doing it. [00:38:58] In the controlled graded areas. [00:39:06] Well, we proposed a palm and a crape myrtle solution. [00:39:11] My recommendation, since it was asked for, is palms. [00:39:18] I think it's your cleanest, simplest, most appropriate solution if you're going to have [00:39:27] awnings extended far enough out from the building face to provide shade in order to avoid conflict [00:39:36] and to provide a simple, clean look that will allow the architecture to speak for itself [00:39:44] that palm trees is the way to go. [00:39:46] If you've got palms, you can take the awning almost out to the tree line. [00:39:51] Yes, you could. [00:39:52] Yes, you could. [00:39:53] Of course, with a crape myrtle, you're going to have to set back significantly. [00:39:58] Yes, and it'll take a crape myrtle. [00:40:00] It'll look very good four months, five months of the year, six months of the year. [00:40:06] And the palms are going to be green the whole time, I guess. [00:40:13] I understand the... [00:40:15] Is there electric in those wells? [00:40:18] Yes, sir. [00:40:21] Okay. [00:40:24] If you did the palms as an alternative, even if you eliminate some, [00:40:31] then that would give you the ability to kind of decorate them during some kind of a theme. [00:40:38] But I think I've lived with the drakes and the other stuff when they're dormant. [00:40:45] And that's what your pictures showed early on. [00:40:49] And that's the lack of character you get during those four or five months. [00:40:54] And then they are like they are today, where they've grown into each other and they mass out. [00:41:00] So I personally, if they want to do crapes, that's fine. [00:41:06] I will not be voting for that. [00:41:09] It's not my preferred from my three criteria I was looking for. [00:41:16] Well, since you mentioned electric, I'll throw out the idea perhaps for another fiscal cycle [00:41:23] that uplighting whatever you choose might be an interesting option as well. [00:41:29] I was just thinking the same thing, colored lights up onto the palms. [00:41:34] There are fixtures that can have the lenses changed out seasonally. [00:41:39] I mean, it's not inexpensive, but it's effective. [00:41:44] We uplighted the trees in the medians on St. Pete Beach and used solar to do it, actually. [00:41:52] It was an interesting project. [00:41:54] And, you know, lights can really make an area pop and be memorable. [00:41:59] So just some food for thought for another time. [00:42:04] If the electric is in place, you might be able to make good use of it. [00:42:09] I think we've got to move ourselves along to help you. [00:42:15] That old phrase, help me help you. [00:42:18] Because we do have another big budget item that we need to go over, [00:42:22] which obviously impacts part of what you're presenting to us. [00:42:26] But at the moment, we are. [00:42:29] So I'm hoping we can move some things along for you. [00:42:35] Are we looking for a motion? [00:42:39] We're in a work session, so we can't really do a motion. [00:42:42] I suggest we put it on the agenda to make a motion to the next meeting. [00:42:46] It sounds like what we were looking to do is get to the point [00:42:53] where we would be putting into place the awnings and the palms. [00:42:57] I could live with the palms if we've got the awning program. [00:43:01] And that's what we would need to know so that Jim could continue on is if we – [00:43:05] That's the direction we're going. [00:43:06] Right, we can go to plant the palms and work on the awnings, right? [00:43:08] Right. [00:43:09] Correct. [00:43:11] At this time, when we're talking about the electric and those – [00:43:16] you know, the issues that we've had with the electricity. [00:43:26] I think that's a very valid point. [00:43:30] Lights even in trees in downtown. [00:43:41] Mr. Mayor, the last thing is, is obviously I think we need to be – [00:43:45] I think in the parking lot areas, I'm okay with everything that you presented. [00:43:50] And obviously the transplanting of the – whatever we take out, we try to transplant it [00:43:55] so we can show – because we have a very big arborist community [00:43:59] and people that really embrace different kind of trees and stuff. [00:44:03] So we want to make sure that we reuse as much as possible. [00:44:06] But the biggest thing is that we are code compliant with our own code [00:44:11] when it comes to our own house. [00:44:14] Because we do a lot of stuff telling people to get their houses in order, [00:44:18] and it doesn't serve well when we tell them what to do and we don't do it ourselves. [00:44:26] I think we'll get the people on Virginia to grow some vegetables. [00:44:31] There he is. [00:44:32] I knew he'd go for the urban agricultural stuff around. [00:44:36] Mr. Rivera, when will we have a quote – [00:44:38] or will we have a quote for the Lumen decker fencing around? [00:44:42] I am waiting on Bill. [00:44:44] We've been in contact since I talked with you, [00:44:47] and I'm still waiting on his quote. [00:44:50] Give you a time frame? [00:44:52] No, sir, but we can call him again. [00:44:54] Yes, I will. Thank you. [00:44:56] Do you have a sense of where we're coming from? [00:44:58] I have enough sense. [00:45:00] to go forward. That didn't sound right. [00:45:05] Actually it might on multiple levels. [00:45:08] If you could define the sense of the sense, then we'd have two cents. [00:45:14] Thank you very much. [00:45:17] Thank you. [00:45:18] I feel like a shoe salesman at one point. [00:45:21] Palm salesman. [00:45:22] Palm salesman. [00:45:26] Thanks for coming back. [00:45:31] Actually I've got a couple of those sables that have taken root right at my front gate. [00:45:38] If you want them, you can have them. [00:45:44] Did you ever get those trees replaced from the park that were dying? [00:45:48] Yeah, but... [00:45:50] Not all of them. [00:45:51] We lost a couple over the weekend that now need to be replaced as well. [00:45:57] They were slated to because they were diseased anyway. [00:46:02] That's time. [00:46:05] The balance of our capital expenditure budget?

   This text was generated automatically from the meeting video. It is not a verbatim or official record. For exact wording, consult the video or the city clerk.

3. 3

   Proposed 2016-2017 Capital Improvement Program

   discussed

   Staff presented the proposed 2016-2017 Capital Improvement Program, covering Water and Sewer Construction Fund (405) projects, CRA redevelopment projects (Hacienda Hotel Restoration and Business Incubator improvements), and the Street Improvement Fund. Council discussed the local option gas tax balance ($2.2M carry-forward), the need to document road expenditures to compete with the county for gas tax dollars, and deferred the 2014-15 Street Improvement assessment project pending an October work session on a new assessment approach.

   • direction:Council directed staff to schedule an October work session to discuss a new street assessment approach before proceeding with the 2014-15 Street Improvement Project. (none)
   • direction:Council directed staff to document prior years' street expenditures to defend the city's share of local option gas tax revenue from the county. (none)

   📍Bridge Road📍Central Avenue📍Circle Boulevard📍Conger Street📍Grand Boulevard📍Madison Street (Cecilia to Mass)📍Orito Park and Orchid Lake area📍Plath Road📍former hospital site, south end of town🏢Business Incubator🏢Chamber of Commerce🏢Hacienda Hotel🏢Main Street Landings🏢Port Richey🏢Tyler Technologies👤Crystal👤Debbie👤Heather Baratino👤John Gallagher👤Nirenbrock👤Phillips👤Robert Rivera👤Tom O'Neill#2014-15 Street Improvement Project#2014-15 Water Utility System Improvements#CDBG funding#CRA Fund#Fund 405 Water and Sewer Construction#Hacienda Hotel Restoration Project#Inflow Infiltration Abatement / Smoke Testing Program#Local Option Gas Tax#Penny for Pasco#Roadway Needs Assessment Report#Sewer Manhole and Main Rehabilitation/Lining#Smart Meter / Water Meter Upgrades#State Historical Preservation Grant#Street Improvement Fund#TIF revenue

   ▶ Jump to 46:06 in the video

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   [00:46:07] Yes, sir, Mr. Mayor. [00:46:10] The purpose of [00:46:11] the second part of your work session this evening is to allow the staff to [00:46:15] present to you [00:46:17] the remaining items in the capital improvement funds. Mr. Rivera [00:46:22] will start the discussion this evening with the water and sewer construction fund. [00:46:27] I think that's where we left off. [00:46:31] Crystal, join us. [00:46:41] Mayor, there was a question asked earlier about how we set our millage rate earlier. [00:46:49] Obviously the information that we used was the base budget that we received early on, [00:46:54] which has a lot of changes. We just set the [00:46:56] original millage rate [00:46:58] using that as a benchmark, knowing that we could always come down and not go up. [00:47:04] But obviously [00:47:06] that document still has a little bit of [00:47:09] movement in it still [00:47:11] because obviously [00:47:13] part of that original budget that we set the millage rate at, [00:47:17] we actually [00:47:18] had in it [00:47:20] part of the [00:47:21] pavement assessment program in it. [00:47:23] So in essence [00:47:24] there is still some real moving parts over the next few weeks, [00:47:29] but initially we set that [00:47:31] original millage rate [00:47:32] off of that original document that we had. So that's kind of the benchmark that I remember using. [00:47:43] Which color are you in? Blue. [00:47:46] We have blue. [00:48:00] What we typically do [00:48:02] is we'll go ahead and call out the projects [00:48:05] that are in the 16 and 17 [00:48:08] column. [00:48:09] And if you have any questions for the [00:48:13] outside years, [00:48:15] just stop me and we can talk about those. [00:48:18] But I'll just be describing the projects that we're going to be doing this coming year. [00:48:23] In case you didn't notice, Crystal did pass out [00:48:27] the most recent copy to you today, so it would be helpful if you wanted to use that. [00:48:33] Is this what was emailed to us the other day or not? [00:48:35] No, we made some changes today. [00:48:42] Water and sewer construction 405? [00:48:44] Yes, ma'am. 405. [00:48:50] The first project that we have is a miscellaneous right-of-way [00:48:54] and facility irrigation expansions. [00:48:58] That's where we take and identify where we have reclaiming around city-owned [00:49:03] facilities or [00:49:04] some of the median improvements that you might see during the year, a lot of them [00:49:07] that we do in-house. [00:49:10] This money is set aside for that purpose. [00:49:17] And the next project you might have forgotten about, but we're going to get [00:49:21] it done. It's the water meter upgrades, the smart meters. [00:49:26] Right now we have finished all of the installation and [00:49:30] this $100,000 is what we expect to cost for [00:49:34] the software improvements and any of the other outstanding issues that we have. [00:49:38] The project was delayed due to the Tyler Technologies and everything [00:49:43] merging in together, [00:49:44] so we'll finish that next year. [00:49:48] This doesn't happen to [00:49:50] interface with any of the [00:49:52] potential systems that we're looking to purchase? [00:49:55] This doesn't cover any of those? [00:49:57] No, sir. [00:49:59] That will be done through the loan application that we're going to use. [00:50:06] So a [00:50:07] pragmatic question is, is that we're going to be using [00:50:10] two billing systems [00:50:12] when we buy the new ones? No, sir. [00:50:14] Because they won't have new meters, I'm just trying to... [00:50:19] Correct. [00:50:20] We're predicting that it's going to take our crews 45 days to switch out [00:50:24] all the meters in those three utility areas. [00:50:28] So when we purchase the utilities, we will also include the cost for the [00:50:33] meters and any other type of upgrades that need to be done and we'll have [00:50:36] those installed [00:50:38] after the first or second billing cycle. [00:50:48] The next project that we have is the [00:50:52] inflow infiltration abatement or smoke testing program. [00:50:59] I'm sorry. [00:51:01] Just the term smoke testing, it's just... [00:51:05] I understand what they use it for, [00:51:08] to determine where your leaks are at, but it's interesting. [00:51:14] And so we're [00:51:15] projecting to do the engineering phase [00:51:19] and then [00:51:20] start the testing [00:51:22] and then of course [00:51:23] depending on the identification of [00:51:28] the areas that we do [00:51:30] identify would depend on whether or not this would be [00:51:33] a annual program or if we would be able to finish it in a few years. [00:51:42] The sewer manhole [00:51:44] and main rehabilitation or lining project, this is an annual project that we [00:51:48] perform and it goes hand-in-hand with the smoke testing. [00:51:51] We have a lot of [00:51:53] old lines, clay lines in our system that [00:51:56] we need to identify and once we identify that we [00:51:59] instead of doing traditional construction and tearing up the [00:52:03] roadways and areas, we go ahead and get in there and we line them. [00:52:08] And so that's a cost-effective method of [00:52:11] isolating the infiltration. [00:52:21] The next project that we have is the potable and reclaimed water system [00:52:25] extensions. [00:52:26] This money is set aside [00:52:29] typically for, [00:52:31] an example would be if we have an area in our service area where [00:52:36] maybe there are some [00:52:38] some wells that have [00:52:40] that have failed or septic systems that have failed, [00:52:43] well I'm sorry not septic systems but water systems, [00:52:47] then we would go ahead and extend those lines out to those homes [00:52:51] and we would use [00:52:52] these funds here [00:52:54] to be able to do that. [00:52:59] So is it actual projects or is it [00:53:01] potential projects? [00:53:03] Those are potential projects. [00:53:06] There's a tune of about $965,000, is that? [00:53:11] We've got $300,000. [00:53:14] Oh okay, and the reclaimed line item? [00:53:18] The next project that we have is the bulk meter backflow prevention upgrades. [00:53:23] We've got a few [00:53:26] large meters out there that we sell bulk water to customers, one of them being [00:53:29] New Port Richey, [00:53:31] and it's about time that we need to do some upgrades to those systems. [00:53:45] The next project [00:53:47] goes in line [00:53:56] with that. [00:54:08] This is the potable and reclaimed water system improvements. [00:54:13] This again is money that is set aside for [00:54:17] an example would be when we do road work or [00:54:20] any kind of construction that is above ground. [00:54:22] We will take and identify the [00:54:26] systems that are [00:54:27] underneath the facility [00:54:29] and start replacing those [00:54:32] older lines so that we can [00:54:34] try to prevent the potential of failure. [00:54:37] An example would be on a new area of road. [00:54:51] The next project that we have, we're currently in the middle of, it's the 2014-15 [00:54:54] water utility system improvements, [00:54:57] and that's basically replacing areas of pipe [00:55:02] that [00:55:03] serve their useful life, that have a history of a lot of repairs. [00:55:07] It also includes the [00:55:09] upgrading of water mains to improve firefighting. [00:55:17] And of course we have the sewer utility system improvements project. [00:55:26] This project [00:55:27] calls for upgrades of the lift station down around the [00:55:31] former hospital site on the south end of town. [00:55:35] We've got a couple lift stations that are inadequate right now and need to be [00:55:38] upgraded, [00:55:39] and it also calls for the [00:55:41] upgrades of the force main system down there. [00:55:51] The [00:55:52] sewer systems extensions miscellaneous project is another one that [00:55:57] reserves money [00:55:58] so that if we identify any areas that [00:56:02] there are septic system failures [00:56:05] that we would be able to get in there and [00:56:08] extend our system out to those areas where [00:56:12] the septics have failed. [00:56:15] Any idea how many [00:56:17] we have? [00:56:20] Are there any on the river? [00:56:22] Not that I'm aware of. [00:56:26] And the reason why I say that is because every now and then you do find one [00:56:29] that never did get hooked up or something like that, but [00:56:32] we're pretty much in good shape when it comes to inside the [00:56:35] city limits with [00:56:37] septic systems. It's outside, it's in our service area [00:56:40] in the county where we have most of them. [00:56:47] I don't know if this is completely on topic, but you guys were running a generator down by the [00:56:52] lift station at the Chamber of Commerce building. [00:56:59] Was that a loss of power? [00:57:01] It was in the parking lot. [00:57:02] It was actually by the ramp. [00:57:06] Well, up by the road, by Bridge Road. [00:57:08] Okay, over by that lift station there. [00:57:11] We had two problems. We were running generators for where we had lost [00:57:15] power and then we [00:57:17] also had some pumps set up where the power had gone down and we were using the [00:57:20] pump actually to [00:57:22] bypass the system [00:57:23] to keep moving the flows. [00:57:36] And I believe [00:57:38] that leads us to the redevelopment projects. [00:57:44] The capital projects that we're proposing out of the CRA fund [00:57:49] are the [00:57:50] Hacienda Hotel Restoration Project [00:57:53] and Business Incubator Facility Improvements. [00:57:58] The Hacienda [00:58:00] Restoration Project is grant funded [00:58:02] so the expenditures proposed match what we expect [00:58:07] from the State Historical Preservation Grant. [00:58:12] And then we've also [00:58:14] budgeted $25,000 in improvements to the Business Incubator. [00:58:19] I'm sorry, I thought the $950,000 was a split. [00:58:23] I thought it was [00:58:24] up to $500,000 from them and then [00:58:27] our match on our side. [00:58:30] I thought all $950,000 was going to be funded by the State or whoever. [00:58:36] Did I not? [00:58:37] That's correct. [00:58:38] Since this [00:58:39] captures the expenditure [00:58:41] side of it, $950,000 would be the total expenditures dedicated to that project. [00:58:46] But yes, $550,000 is the [00:58:49] grant amount we expect. [00:58:52] We're [00:58:54] dedicating $25,000 to improvements to the Business Incubator [00:58:58] for the upgrade of four bathrooms, [00:59:01] a small kitchen, and exterior facade improvements. [00:59:05] And those funds are [00:59:07] planned to come from the TIF revenue. [00:59:13] And I'll let Robert finish up with the Street Improvement Fund. [00:59:20] Well no, the other one is the [00:59:23] payout to Main Street Landings in 2017-18. [00:59:28] Those are the two out years. [00:59:37] The first project that we have is the 2014 [00:59:42] Street Improvement Project. [00:59:44] And we would [00:59:47] defer to Council. I know that we have [00:59:50] talked about [00:59:53] trying to approach a new type of assessment process. [00:59:57] This [00:59:59] project here... [01:00:00] was the next street assessment project we were supposed to perform. [01:00:07] We are going to schedule an October meeting to have a work session to discuss how council [01:00:13] would like to approach it. [01:00:15] And so we have this in the budget because we really need to do it. [01:00:20] But if you approve the budget as is, it doesn't mean that we would just go right to it and [01:00:26] start doing an assessment project under the current system that we have. [01:00:36] But we do have it in the CIP program. [01:00:40] My larger question is twofold. [01:00:44] One, our audit statements a couple of years ago showed a revenue account that had multiple [01:00:55] dollars in it. [01:00:56] The other is, I'm trying to understand where our local option gas tax money is today. [01:01:05] The only project that we've really done from a street side, the majority of it was paid [01:01:12] for by Penny for Pasco was the Plath Road project. [01:01:16] Once the county gave us ownership of that road, because they sure in the heck weren't [01:01:21] going to do it, and we ended up putting it down. [01:01:24] So I'm trying to understand where the revenue accounts are that we've been collecting dollars [01:01:33] for instead of all of it coming from an assessment program or a staging. [01:01:44] I know everybody's attention last week was on life safety and clean up and everything [01:01:50] else. [01:01:51] We're down within 20 days, 21 days until we have to make this next year's budget go real. [01:02:03] Assessment program or not, I guess the major thing was, what was the dollar amount? [01:02:11] Because I think, wasn't it the Madison Street project? [01:02:13] Is that the one I'm remembering? [01:02:16] Is that the one that's in this budget? [01:02:18] The road project? [01:02:19] Yes, sir. [01:02:20] From Cecilia to Mass, basically? [01:02:23] Correct. [01:02:24] Okay. [01:02:25] And we talked, I'm sorry, go ahead. [01:02:28] That was going to be in this 2014-15 street improvement project. [01:02:36] But I don't know if you recall, we came, the roadway needs assessment report showed the [01:02:41] cycle one, which included Conger Street and the Orito Park and Orchid Lake area. [01:02:49] And then we came back and asked if we could add on Madison Street. [01:02:55] And so when we decided to submit this, knowing that there might be a change in how we assess [01:03:04] residents, we took and did cycle one and cut that in half. [01:03:11] Okay. [01:03:12] All right. [01:03:14] There'll be some offline meetings with staff and everything else, because it's not clear. [01:03:27] I don't see, I haven't had to find the revenue pools from what we haven't done in the last [01:03:33] couple of years, what we have on point to do, and then trying to meet those goals so [01:03:40] that we can go to number two, taking out whatever the discussion is on the assessment [01:03:47] program. [01:03:48] Because the way I came away from that meeting last week, the two and a half, three hours [01:03:52] where we let people come talk to us, I came away with two things. [01:03:57] Talk to me about what you've done in the past, prove to me what you've done with the money, [01:04:00] which is step one. [01:04:02] Number two, I'm okay with understanding that I have to be in the pool of play for collector [01:04:12] roads and main feeder roads, but I'm not unhappy with the way the programs worked for my neighborhoods. [01:04:22] Except councils haven't had the appetite to want to go do those other road projects, because [01:04:28] we end up paying 65 or 70 percent out of the city, because all those people come down [01:04:32] and tell us how tough we are on them, because we want to fix their street, and then we end [01:04:39] up financing it, and then we don't get paid full out of that. [01:04:43] The way I came away from the meeting was, tell me where we were, prove to me where we [01:04:48] were, and something hard before I get to the meeting. [01:04:53] Number two, I like my old system a little bit, and I'm saying, okay, but what I can't [01:05:00] see from this, and the capital, it's confusing, is where my revenue funds have been for things [01:05:07] that we've been collecting for and haven't done, because the bigger question is, we have [01:05:13] to do those road projects so that we qualify to go back to the county on those local option [01:05:21] gas tax dollars, because they've been moving those formulas off and on for the last three [01:05:26] years. [01:05:27] So eventually, if we don't do anything, we won't get that money, because we haven't performed [01:05:34] anything that qualifies. [01:05:36] That was going to be the point that I was actually going to make, is exactly that. [01:05:40] The county officials, I think with more than a little bit of a sly of hand, figured the [01:05:49] best way that they could scarf as much of the gas tax money for themselves as possible, [01:05:54] and basically stiff the cities. [01:05:57] Some of the cities aren't big enough to do anything about it. [01:05:59] I think we are, if we build enough of a road project system, and we can beat the county [01:06:07] at their own game, but we've got to be able to document the expenditures. [01:06:12] Absolutely. [01:06:13] Yeah, because their attorneys got very creative during the last two cycles. [01:06:17] I think you even spoke up a year ago, Robert, and said that we did a lot of stuff, but we [01:06:23] didn't tell them we did, which arose when we shared. [01:06:27] I just think that this whole entity, if you want to call it, this whole project, is mixed [01:06:35] mash to some degree. [01:06:36] We don't know how much we've done, how much we can get from the county, how much money, [01:06:44] what's left over, because we haven't done anything. [01:06:47] It's just not all organized in my mind. [01:06:50] It hasn't been presented. [01:06:51] Maybe it is in here that she can figure it out, but I can't figure it out. [01:06:57] Just to give you the benchmarks, taking out all the stuff we heard last Tuesday, and coming [01:07:03] down on the assessment, and all that stuff. [01:07:05] If you take Mr. Nirenbrock's questions, and you answer those succinctly, that will get [01:07:13] you 75 or 80% down the road. [01:07:17] He used to be here as the finance director, and he went to the county. [01:07:21] He asked questions that night that were so on point that we couldn't get down into the [01:07:26] weeds with him that night. [01:07:28] If you answer those questions, that will take about 75% of the uncertainty out of the equation. [01:07:37] That's my personal opinion, but again, I don't want to bog down, because we still have [01:07:43] to get through. [01:07:46] At the end of the day, whether we workshop it in October, and we start talking about [01:07:51] that fee, if we can't demonstrate and show last three years, five years, point by point, [01:08:02] we'll get run over like we're standing out playing in traffic with the semi. [01:08:07] It's like, oh, don't hit me now, but don't hit me from over here, but I'm just telling [01:08:10] you that if we can't prove that fact, we can't win the presentation. [01:08:19] That's just my personal opinion, I'm sorry. [01:08:21] We should be run over. [01:08:22] I'm not saying. [01:08:23] He's sitting in the audience here. [01:08:24] He can take John Gallagher's questions, too, and Heather Baratino's. [01:08:25] If I may, I can answer your question in part right now. [01:08:42] What I tried to do was supplement the capital improvement plan with the revenue estimates [01:08:46] for next year, specifically for the street improvement fund. [01:08:50] I tried to color coordinate it to match the expenditures. [01:08:57] The street improvement fund is in brown, and so there's an account, a revenue account that [01:09:03] provides you with the prior year fund balance, or basically what's left of local option gas [01:09:11] tax revenue. [01:09:12] You'll see here, there's $2.2 million budgeted for fiscal year 16-17. [01:09:37] It's $2,206,000 to be exact. [01:09:41] That's basically our revenue balance of local option gas tax that hasn't been used, that [01:09:45] we're going to roll forward to 17 and use as part of our funding resource for these [01:09:52] capital projects that Robert's presenting. [01:09:56] In essence, I know that answers part of your question, Deputy Mayor Phillips, but there [01:10:01] is a balance, so to speak, of what we have left of local option gas tax, or estimated, [01:10:08] because clearly we're not done with the fiscal year 16, but that's estimated amount. [01:10:12] Thank you. [01:10:14] We're a couple hundred thousand dollars short of what we're proposing, and it's $2.425, [01:10:23] and this is $2.26. [01:10:26] Believe in total, if I can get back to the expenditure side. [01:10:33] You've got a total of these projects here. [01:10:39] That would just be to carry forward, there's actually $3.234. [01:10:43] Correct. [01:10:44] Of revenue available, and then the total capital projects that we're proposing for next year [01:10:50] is $3.1 million. [01:10:57] And that may not be the best way to present it to you. [01:11:00] Like you said, I'm a numbers person, so this made the most sense to me, but if there's [01:11:05] a better way to present it, then please let me know. [01:11:15] And I think that that would keep in line with that estimate of $4.25 annually, if you consider [01:11:23] that our last street project was 2012, and then if we took into account the two projects [01:11:31] that just come off the top of my head are the emergency road repairs and the Grand Boulevard [01:11:36] road, that comes out to almost a million dollars. [01:11:45] The only thing we're going to have to be cognizant of is the formulas and the way that they're [01:11:52] used, to see how far back you can go back and look, or if they've put a new benchmark [01:11:59] from where you get to start from. [01:12:02] And I know I was involved when we had to go in and get them to back away from a formula [01:12:10] change, and we had to go to Dade City with the MAP group to get them to stop, but we're [01:12:20] going to have to find out if they've stopped that at a certain point, and from that, so [01:12:26] it's understanding the dynamics of each one, because there's two separate funds, two separate [01:12:34] areas, you know, road mile and historical, I can't remember, those are the ones that [01:12:40] are on top of my head. [01:12:41] But definitely take a look at it. [01:12:43] We want to beat the county administration and finance departments at their own game [01:12:48] on this. [01:12:49] They played this a year or two ago. [01:12:51] We need to make sure we're... [01:12:53] It was their attorney. [01:12:54] Yeah. [01:12:58] They employ a few. [01:13:02] Were you around for that, Debbie? [01:13:04] I was. [01:13:05] I had just started. [01:13:06] Because I know, I knew, I remember Tom being there, O'Neill, but I didn't remember you [01:13:10] being there. [01:13:12] What else we got? [01:13:13] The next project is the road and sidewalk improvements to Circle Boulevard. [01:13:19] This is going to be using CDBG funding. [01:13:23] We'll be resurfacing Circle Boulevard and doing some ADA upgrades to the sidewalk ramps, [01:13:31] as well as taking and doing some minor inlet improvements. [01:13:36] That'll all be coordinated around everything we're doing at Orange Lake and everything [01:13:40] else in that whole... [01:13:41] Yes, sir. [01:13:42] Okay. [01:13:43] All right. [01:13:45] Because we have had the example of us finishing something and then coming back a year later [01:13:50] and trenching it up and doing some things, so... [01:13:53] Something like that. [01:13:54] So, okay. [01:13:56] All right. [01:14:02] The next project is the streetscape expansion, Central Avenue. [01:14:07] That's the only one I don't agree with at the moment, due to the fact that I don't want [01:14:11] to do anything on Central since I've got a developer that's coming in. [01:14:15] And I don't remember having that in the development deal with the developer. [01:14:20] We gave him a pretty good deduct for the property so that they could bring that millennial housing. [01:14:27] But I don't mind Madison to connect all the way through down to Mass. [01:14:34] But I don't know why I'm doing anything on Central right now until they do their development. [01:14:43] And then we can tandem something down the road. [01:14:46] Some people I know have property located on Central, and it's located there. [01:14:51] And I always thought that that's where railroad squares improvements should have went in the [01:14:56] first place, but that's totally me, hindsight playing... [01:15:00] Tuesday morning quarterback. [01:15:01] There's only 40,000 in engineering in this year. [01:15:03] Everything else is out in the future. [01:15:05] That is a plan, right, to work with the developer? [01:15:07] Do we still want to know what they're [01:15:09] going to do with that property there before we start engineering? [01:15:12] The 400 won't happen until after they've had a chance to do it. [01:15:15] Understand. [01:15:17] I'd still go along with you, even a 40. [01:15:22] Good to us, because they've got both sides of the road there. [01:15:25] I personally, and I've said it since 2012 or 13, [01:15:30] if you're going to go that way to the hospital, [01:15:33] I think we serve ourselves better by taking it from Delaware [01:15:36] to Gulf Drive and making that all tie together [01:15:42] with the sidewalks and the lighting. [01:15:44] But that's been one of my pet projects [01:15:47] that I've talked about, because I've always [01:15:50] wanted to tie Gulf Drive, until Marine Parkway gets reworked [01:15:54] or Marine District. [01:15:55] But if you take from Gulf Drive and give that same feel when [01:15:59] they come from there, they come down [01:16:01] and they go all the way over to Mass, to me, [01:16:04] that really would have a big define, [01:16:06] as opposed to doing something on Central. [01:16:08] But that's been me, and I'll take anything, [01:16:14] just like finishing Sims Park. [01:16:16] I'll take anything that I can take back to the public [01:16:19] to prove we planned it, executed it, finished it, [01:16:23] and paid for it. [01:16:25] I just think this is such a signature project for downtown [01:16:31] that I'm OK with working on it. [01:16:34] I agree with Mr. Phillips. [01:16:35] I would like to expand that all the way down grand as well. [01:16:37] But this is such an important project for what [01:16:41] we're trying to do to downtown. [01:16:44] Obviously, we don't want to go in there and do streetscaping [01:16:47] before the buildings are up. [01:16:48] But I'm sure this is organized, whereas we're [01:16:50] going to work with the developer as things progress. [01:16:53] And I think it's important. [01:16:54] I think that area of the road does [01:16:57] need to be improved to go along with that development. [01:16:59] I just think it's a crucial project, I think. [01:17:03] We've had several discussions with the developer. [01:17:07] And his as-built drawings are expected [01:17:10] to be completed in the wintertime. [01:17:14] Any kind of design that we would be proposing [01:17:17] would be after that. [01:17:19] And it would be purely design. [01:17:21] And then, of course, we would be coming to council [01:17:23] with a task order to approve it. [01:17:33] The next project that we have is the streetscape improvements. [01:17:36] Madison Street would be from Main Street to Massachusetts. [01:17:41] We would extend our streetscape area [01:17:45] with the same type of amenities that we have now [01:17:48] down on Main Street in the downtown area. [01:17:50] And with the addition of, if the right-of-way will allow it, [01:17:54] right now we're in our design phase of it, [01:17:56] trying to figure out what is available to us. [01:17:59] If we can get the multi-use path connected to the one [01:18:04] that we just installed down there by Vermont, [01:18:08] then we will try to keep the sidewalk maybe 8 to 10 feet [01:18:11] wide. [01:18:11] If not, it'll be as wide as we can get it. [01:18:15] You might look at both sides of the street. [01:18:17] I don't know if the deputy mayor is aware of it, [01:18:19] but both of us have been threatened [01:18:20] with extremely painful dental visits [01:18:23] if we take out all the parking in front of our dentist. [01:18:27] Well, and it also makes this property non-conforming [01:18:31] after 43 years of being in that location. [01:18:34] But over and above that is, please [01:18:36] be clear when you talk about streetscape going down [01:18:39] through that area, we're not talking about tree wells [01:18:43] and planting trees, I hope. [01:18:45] No, sir. [01:18:45] I just want to be clear. [01:18:46] Because when you say streetscape, [01:18:48] when you say similar to downtown, [01:18:51] then they're going to think that. [01:18:53] I mean, let's qualify that it's large open sidewalks [01:18:58] with decorative brickwork and the decorative LED lighting. [01:19:03] That's kind of the thought process. [01:19:06] Our next project is the Marine Parkway multi-use trail. [01:19:11] And that will go from US-19 to Grand Boulevard. [01:19:18] In future years, we do have, Councilman Phillips, [01:19:21] what you were talking about, as far [01:19:23] as looking at Grand Boulevard being able to connect [01:19:27] to downtown from there. [01:19:28] Yeah, I just want Councilman Phillips on this one. [01:19:32] I want Councilman Phillips on this one. [01:19:34] I know we've already pretty much approved this and whatnot. [01:19:37] I just don't see why we're putting a multi-path trail [01:19:40] from 19 to Grand Boulevard on Marine Parkway [01:19:45] when there's nothing there. [01:19:46] I know we're trying to recruit the VA and whatnot [01:19:50] for the Sims Park location. [01:19:51] But it's just like we're going from 19 to Boulevard, [01:19:54] and there's nothing for Boulevard [01:19:56] to the rest of downtown. [01:19:57] I personally don't get it. [01:19:59] The only flip side there, Jeff, is the location [01:20:04] of that overpass crosswalk. [01:20:07] And originally, when it was submitted, [01:20:10] it was going to be at Marine Parkway. [01:20:15] I don't know how that can change in the future, [01:20:17] because wishful thinking would have been if it was at Maine, [01:20:21] but then we got that. [01:20:22] But that's part of it, with the trail. [01:20:25] If we had the VA there currently, [01:20:27] let's see, we're bringing people on this beautiful trail [01:20:29] to somewhere. [01:20:30] But it's like we're bringing them to Leaning Tower right now. [01:20:32] I think the other thing that we looked at when we had proposed [01:20:37] the project was back in 2014, 17. [01:20:42] I think it was the council's strategic plan had called [01:20:45] for wanting bike paths, multi-use trails, [01:20:48] and those types of things. [01:20:49] This project was called out simply [01:20:51] because Marine Parkway was our southern corridor, [01:20:54] if you will. [01:20:55] It was a face where there was another high-traffic volume [01:20:59] road where people were coming into town, [01:21:01] and we were trying to tie it in to the downtown area, [01:21:05] have similar amenities, and give it [01:21:07] that look to where you were coming in a new corridor. [01:21:10] To me, it makes more sense to expand the downtown [01:21:12] and that pathway from downtown, and then link it there. [01:21:16] It's like we're building this to link to nothing. [01:21:19] Yeah, we've got a gap between, basically, [01:21:21] the bridge and Marine Parkway that we need to figure out. [01:21:25] From the bridge north to downtown, that's easy. [01:21:29] And at the time that this project was in design, [01:21:33] we still hadn't taken over ownership of Grand Boulevard [01:21:36] from south of Maine all the way to the city limits. [01:21:38] So we didn't know if the county was [01:21:40] going to be amenable to us taking it over or not, [01:21:42] or how long that process was going to take. [01:21:44] So obviously, we went ahead and started with this design. [01:21:48] It was a state road, is that right, 580? [01:21:51] It used to be a state road. [01:21:52] We got the northern portion of it, [01:21:54] and the county got the southern portion. [01:21:56] I'm just questioning the timing of everything. [01:21:58] I just will point out for you, Jeff. [01:22:01] Last summer, I went to the League of Cities. [01:22:05] One of the major things that I came out of that, [01:22:10] got a major piece of property, and you [01:22:12] want to develop it, whether it's the VA or some other project [01:22:18] already, and taking down the hospital, getting that done. [01:22:27] I understand. [01:22:28] We can move on. [01:22:29] I just wanted to throw my two cents in, [01:22:30] just a lot of money for that. [01:22:36] The next project that we have is the neighborhood improvement [01:22:38] project. [01:22:40] This project will call for the installation of sidewalks [01:22:44] where there is none, sidewalks where [01:22:47] there's gaps missing, as well as the planting of trees [01:22:52] in certain neighborhoods. [01:22:54] We will be using the roadway needs assessment that [01:22:57] has our inventory of sidewalks to identify those areas [01:23:02] during the design phase. [01:23:08] We have the roadway striping project, [01:23:11] which is an annual program that puts down the roadway markings. [01:23:18] And then we are proposing a LED crosswalk system [01:23:23] to be installed at Lincoln Street and Main Street, [01:23:26] similar to the one that we installed [01:23:28] at Adams Street and Main Street. [01:23:37] And that's it. [01:23:38] That's got it. [01:23:39] Anything else, Ms. Vance? [01:23:42] Anything else, Mr. Mayor? [01:23:45] Any other comments on CIP before we adjourn for supper? [01:23:49] Thank you for all your hard work. [01:23:51] Thank you. [01:23:53] Why are we getting, every so many years, this is off. [01:23:59] Every so many years, do we have to put new blue reflector [01:24:03] lights out by the fire hydrants? [01:24:09] Because I see around town now there's two. [01:24:12] It's an annual program that we do. [01:24:14] We have a hydrant tester that annually tests. [01:24:17] And as he goes out, now we're starting to put them back out. [01:24:20] I mean, there's one already there. [01:24:21] We're getting a second one. [01:24:23] No, there shouldn't be. [01:24:25] There is. [01:24:26] Quite a few places. [01:24:27] I'll get with him. [01:24:28] Yeah, there's two. [01:24:29] I just thought maybe there was a life expectancy of a blue reflector. [01:24:34] And now it's time to put them in, like preventive maintenance [01:24:39] or something. [01:24:40] Yeah, no, those things will last quite a few years. [01:24:43] Quite a few twos, right? [01:24:44] Yeah. [01:24:46] In that case, I entertain a motion we adjourn this meeting.

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4. 4Adjournment▶ 1:24:48